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Are betas even good for an MMO?
Miffy
Member Posts: 244
The problem with them is the people who think the game is bad, just stop playing and uninstall. The people who love the game stick around with their deluded opinion and fail to say to the developers what is bad cause they just kiss their arse. So the developers think the game is good and get the wrong impression. Frigging so many MMOs I've played the betas of have been really bad and needed like a whole other year of just getting the game good. Yet when you try to voice the problems, you just get flamed by tons of fanbois who probably only like it for the name. Every time I've been right and the game has gone on to be a failure because it isn't hard to see what the problems are.
With Warhammer Online it was the general feel of the engine, you could tell that people weren't going to like it. Thinks like collision in PVP weren't good, the combat was really poor because every class played pretty similar to eachother. I mean everyone had the same escape and snare, the Chaos and Orc tanks played exactly the same. Yet the fanbois were like "no they play very different", I could get tons of spells and show comparisons to how they're the same. I'm playing the game and all the skills are virtually the same and both classes feel generic and not fun to play because of it. Lots of MMOs make the mistake of having tons of classes, yet loads of them seem to be two sides of the same coin. You end up having lots of classe that play the same and they all feel washed down because of it. WoW has done so well because it had few, but very unique classes to play which were all fun. WAR had many other things wrong with it, but this was just an example.
I just don't get how you can have such deluded fanbois on beta forums who pretend everything is great. If everyone had common sense about them and complaining, then they would have no choice but to push the game back. However you get that few vocal minority of fanbois that flame everyone when you say something negative about the game.
Then everyone acts surprise when it gets released and all of a sudden the (by now) open beta forums turn from "I LOVE THIS GAME" to "THIS GAME SUCKS" over night when it is launched. It wasn't a good game it needed more time but you had bad beta testers who acted like everything was great and flamed anyone who said otherwise. They're so vocal, they make it sound like everyone is loving it.
Then you get other problems that if you have a bad game, you can go into a big open beta and everyones plays the game and hates it. However cause you've gone this far, you can't back out now and have no choice but to launch the game. Only no matter if you magically fixed everything, you've already put everyone off with that open beta and noone will play.
The problem really is testing needs to be done very early on, when basic design elements are coming into the game. Developers need to get experienced players to test out all these things and tell them what's what. It's no good getting to beta and realising the foundations the game is sitting on are turd, cause you can't change anything at that point without scraping years of development. So many MMOs are just built on a bad idea that no amount of patches will ever fix. Games like LOTRO, DDO, Vanguard, Champions Online and Star Trek Online etc etc.
I personally think beta tests, both closed and open are almost useless these days. It's time for reform really and developers need to get that testing done early on, tell people what their ideas are and let us play little elements of the game early on. It's no good making a whole game for years and then getting testing done and realising the game is just crap and no amount of fixing can change it.
I can tell that FF14 isn't going to be a hit in the west. No PVP for a start means that people will have to play another MMO, they're quickly get bored of FF14. The slow and clunky combat that we've seen is another off putter for people. The art style of the race choices will put off most people too. The fact that you cannot jump is another poor design choice, it suits some games but for an MMO about exploration, it makes you feel restricted. Asian MMOs have very little quests and you can bet there will be lots of grinding. The UI and controls are really built for the PS3, so the PC version will be hard to play. Then you have Square's history with their crap online services. You already have to pay for more character slots and I doubt they'll keep your account for long, unlike other MMOs which keep them forever.
It wont be a hit but you can count on the Final Fantasy fanbois to make sure them beta forums are nothing but arse kissing to Square. I really don't see why seeing as there hasn't been a good FF since 10 and really IMO since 9.
Comments
Are you try telling what you dont like?
I agree on FF14 will not realy appeal to western community to boring no pvp and slow combat uninspiring character races we seen for so many years now.
But i thought it was about asking if beta was usefull or not hehe.
For most part TL;DR hehe.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Yes most of the time they aren't a good idea. Most people come with expectations to betas, draw conclusions about the game and barely know how to test and/or bother to do it, and don't really report the problems they find out. When you are invited in a beta you are supposed to:
1. Keep it to yourself (NDA)
2. Report bugs by using the developer's suggested method
3. Test the game
What most people do instead is:
1. Most of the time break the NDA
2. Whine on random forums or on in-game's chat, about game's bugs
3. Play the game
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
I have a different take on it. I'm against betas because they basically give the min/max crowd a huge advantage when the game goes live. I'd like to start an MMORPG on launch day on even footing where no one had any idea what to expect, instead we have leveling/crafting/dungeon guides published before launch. No real sense of adventure or exploration.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wait, what is this thread about?
Is it about betas or about FFXIV sucking? If so, why even post it here?
Why does the beta have to be like that in the first place? You don't have to do it that way y'know.
The "public beta" test is supposed to be a little more than a stress test of a mostly completed software. It should be about those little things that could not be perceived by a limited amount of testers... a glitch in a remote area of the map, an unexpected strain on some required resources (either a programming resource, like insufficient dimension of some stack or variable, or an ingame resource, like the amount of items required for some fundamental quest), an unexpected effect of some weird combination of equipment, and something alike... well, if you just launch the game and you see something terribly and *evidently* wrong, you already know the game will most probably be launched buggy and incomplete.
Betas are good for games when they are actual betas. If they are a sort of pre-alpha and you claim it is a beta and you have a set launch date in less than 2 weeks, well... don't expect a lot of customers!
The problem with beta's is that next to no one does what they are there to do, they just join and play the game for their own enjoyment instead of testing and reporting problems, and that causes a lot of issues to never get fixeds, making it into release and beyond, potentially dooming a game in the end.
Some of these people do report issues during beta though, but in the form of a complaint ("FIX THIS! RAWR") instead of a more constructive manner with an explaination and further testing to help the developers understand.
You have to keep in mind that not everyone shares the same opinion as you. Yes, some players will enjoy the game or the theme of the game a lot more than you do. It doesn't mean they are right or wrong and that you are right or wrong in your opinions. It's always easier to remember that everyone enjoys a game for their own reasons. Not every player is the same because otherwise, it would be that much easier for developers to please everyone when no one has 100% approval rating across the board on their changes.
You also can't easily dismiss other players opinions because they simply disagree with you. If you state something one way and everyone under the sun states something another way. Then it could be hard to not sway towards the majority when it comes to beta testing the game. The point of the community is to talk about your findings or feedback with everyone. The input gained there can be useful, but it's not the end of all resource for tweaking the game. For example, if you post how the food tastes and you get flamed by 30 players saying they simply love the game. Then you shouldn't worry at all about the reactions as much because that's very subjective. The food tastes different to everyone and sure, those who love the food will always tell you that you're freaking crazy. It doesn't make your opinion any less valid to the developer.
Beta's in general can be a real pain in the ass when they hit that open state. It's not easy for the developers to filter thousands upon thousands of bug reports or feedback from the community. Those developers who actually implement bug reporting systems in their games have to deal with 10x more. We're talking about reports in all types of language styles and duplications on issues from beyond the grave. Thus, you should also bear in mind that beta's for developers can be blood-sucking mind-numbing processes where they are trying their best to consume your input and make it happen.
In closing, most developers do have smaller more focus beta phases that are considered closed beta's. The beta's where they focus test on a much smaller scale leading up to the big beta phases. But, when you're talking about MASSIVELY multiplayer online games -- nothing is easy!
Glen ''Famine'' Swan
Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
Box sales, baby.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
GREEN is me, I hardly "enjoy" a game during beta test but love doing testing, it's as close as I can get to a so-called grind, as some things need to be done over and over again untill they work. I sometimes even beta test games I have zero desire to actualy play but as said love testing them for the developers in hopes to make it a enjoyable game for those who might enter it at release. But I am just one voice among hunderds, thousand if not more people, so don't blame me if regardless my effort of actually testing the game that the game might not turn out great.
Unfortunaly I feel the majority of people into beta testing fit the RED part
In the days when beta's were hand selected people to fit certain hardware profiles and usually made up of people who had shown a constructive interest and good knowledge of game mechanics they were a god send free QA if you wish to think of it via that means.
Nowdays they are nothing but promotional crap that attracts idiots who offer nothing other than a kick back off how many fileplanet signups it gets.
Not quite sure what you're trying to say here, could you elaborate more?
I don't play betas this way, but I find it disheartening to join a game on launch day and people with 1 year of beta experience are already crashing through the content using their advanced knowledge. My only recourse of course is to be just like them, and I don't feel like it these days, I prefer to play the released product.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't think public beta's are good for a game like an open beta that is widely advertised or a closed beta that has keys widely available to anyone. The wrong type of people get into the beta, and assume the game sucks based on all of the beta bugs, and then they go and spread the information to all of their friends. They lose a large chunk of subs because of beta testing, and word of mouth that the game isn't good while in testing.
What forces you to play this way ?
Don;t get me wrong i do the exact same i am often even one of those who has that experience and is leading the charge.
I had a revelation recently though that this is probably the reason I burn out on MMO's in the first 3 month rather than the title itself.
I'll use Aion as a example I was in beta very early on possibly the 2nd Legion invite wave and played on chinese retail when launch came bam 2 chars 45+ and full daevonic armour set (6 chars to 30) within 45 days i was burned out and quit i recently returned deleted all toons and am enjoying the game.
I emailed bioware last week asking them to remove my application for beta for TOR and intend on not going near it till launch were i will slowly go through it enjoying content and not giving a rats ass about what others do.
Beta's are fine. Its the job of the company making it to put out a good game. If they can't put it out in beta they wouldn't have finished it by release. The only difference is you would have people bashing it once it was releasxed rather than before it was released. As far as people being non productive during beta, I dont believe that is the case. No one notices the majority of gamers who do not act like "shi t bags"" , cry in the forums, keep to themselves etc etc. The gamer who actually does understand what beta is about ... and trust me, those people are the majority.
It really depends how the developers want to set it up and what their intentions are.
Like if you don't put the proper game mechanics to the game until the very end of the testing period, the testers won't have time to form a good idea about what class is uber and what is gimp. They can also release only very small portion of the game for the testers to explore.
This absolutely requires some tweaking as far as the intentions of the beta goes. You must have a large internal testing team to find out the bugs in-game for the rest of the content the testers won't see before release, and every mechanic is tweaked until very close to the release and simultaneously as well. The testers help can be used to mainly stresstest the servers, figure out bugs related to hardware and depending on just how drastically different your game is to other products in the market, get good feedback about what needs to be changed and what features are not explained well enough, for example. Not so much testing for bugs, but to give the testers a clearly unfinished product to play with and see what improvement they would like to see made to it, which is then reflected to the rest of the development process if possible.
If done right, the beta could only last for a few months this way as well. Depends just how early the company wants to start gathering player feedback about the game really.
The latter i gues:P
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
He misunderstood you hehe.
But its true that most use beta to get advantage or try find exploits(darkfall) and use it in there advantage(theMercs clan in Darkfall).
I remember beta testing early 2000 and most where happy that they where invited into beta and realy try find bugs or help improve game instead of free ride or for own benefit.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
If this is about why MMO's have Beta's it's pretty simple
Most Company's QA departments simply do not employ enough people to effectively test a game designed to be played by hundreds of thousands of people. This means that you need to obtain testers from another source. However, there's no way you have enough money to hire the thousands of people we see in betas. So, you have to allow your fanbase in to test.
The good thing about this is that you don't have to pay them. The bad thing is that you get what you pay for. Most people use it as a way to "try before you by" which is flawed because of course the game isn't finished. Few people do proper beta testing technique, which is to say that they don't really Keep a notebook out, and run around trying to break the game like a usual beta tester might.
The other problem is that a lot of people think that if they report a bunch of "gameplay flaws" that they are doing their job as a beta tester. While most developers will at least pretend to appreciate your suggestions, they are more concerned with fixing bugs rather then trying to fix every little thing that everyone thinks is wrong with it. And remember, just because you've been doing PvP for a while doesn't mean you know how to balance classes and just because you've been running said dungeon for a while doesn't mean you know how to improve it.
Betas are a part of the software development life cycle, but MMO developers don't really seem to understand what a beta is. I don't have anything else to say about your OP, since after the topic title it looks like nothing but a flaming turd. I doubt you really wanted it to look that way, but your choice of words and lack of appropriate examples is unfortunate.
Well, when a company does a real beta and the reaction is that, who can blame them?
Although it doesn't matter what doom & gloom the testers put out before the release because it's not "good enough", it's still scary and may affect the initial sales (which in the case of MMO's hardly matter though).
I think the real problem is fanbois in general and not the concept of beta. I have seen plenty of live games out there with fanboi communities that shoot down any negetive comments or any suggestions to really improve the game. It seems to me the worse the game is the more fanbois there are to defend it but then when you actually go to play the game the servers are empty the game itself if horrible. What most games need is honest feedback which sadly is a rare thing these days.