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how do newbs deal with the BS in 0.0?
ChoadSauce
Member Posts: 91
I've found that Eve is one of those games that you love to hate.
I just started playing eve about a month and a half ago, I got about 3mil skill points....and i play casual, meaning my venture through the learning is a little slower.
The 3rd day I started playing, I started looking for a corp. I enjoy mining alot so I started posting around that I'm looking for a corp with 24-7 mining ops. This guy responded to me saying "looking for o.o?" to tell you the truth, i had no idea what that meant, I just said "Is there lotsa mining to be had" , "oh yeah, lotsa isk to be had" he responded. So I think, cool, I get to join a large corp with tons of people mining 24-7. little had I known what I had gotten myself into. besides the 3 day adventure I had to endure just to GET to 0.0 sec, I still was confused about the game more than a 8 year old in a strip club.
A couple of weeks into it, I started regretting leaving empire so soon. I was having such a hard time making ends meet from getting podded constantly by reds passing through.....or rats that would warp scramble me while attempting ratting with my caracal. about 2 months into it, I'm still having a really hard time. I cannot mine solo with my retriever (lost about 6 retrievers and 4 drakes). I've been getting super frustrated and been talking to my corp about going back to empire and they keep telling me " just keep with it, it will get better, you'll learn so much here in 0.0 than in empire" and its so hard to believe them when all thats happening to me is I'll make a moderate amount of isk, than get shat on not soon after by losing a ship or 2 and getting podded.
what really made me lose it was 2 days ago. I was mining peacefully in my retriever, there was about 10 hulks in my fleet, so I was the little puppy following the pack. I was just filling up my 3rd can of crokite when all of a sudden I noticed I was geting hit by rats....tried to warp out, got warp scrambled so I lost my retriever.......not that big of a deal, but when I warped to my nearest station to dock, ohhh shit, theres a bubble right infront of the station, got popped instantly with a T2 railgun.
so in summary, I lost a retriever, 3 full cans of crokite and some pretty expensive implants. I'm sure lots of people have worse stories about bigger losses, but keep in mind that im still a newb to this game and it takes alot longer for me to recover from my losses due to me being a casual player. All in all, my question is.....is 0.0 sec right for me? should i go back to empire till i have alot higher SP to actually be able to recover from losses? because so far I've come to the conclusion that nulsec is NOT newb friendly.
_The Sauce Man
Comments
It's a game and you're paying for it so If you're not having fun then leave.
I will tell you that what your corp is telling you about learning more in 0.0 than in empire is definitely true. Also there is a lot more ISK to be made in 0.0 once you do get the hang of it. While you're learning the ropes you'll lose more ships then a vet. Your SP total doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to survive.
It's never too early to leave empire, I've been living in low sec since my first month and never looked back.
I'm curious how you lost that retriever to rats when you're in a gang with 10 others... didn't they help you? Or did they even know you were in trouble?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Wow, your corp is shit.
If a corp recruits miners specifically and doesn't offer full ship replacement and at least a permanently assigned mentor for a first weeks, you can already assume that they're not interested in getting you ready to do your part. Bet it's some shitty pet corp paying rent or something similar.
Go look for a real corp. One that does take a personal interest in you, has a newbie training program and replaces pvp ships lost in fleet ops. Stay the hell away from any corporation that pays rent to anyone, they're universally horrible and a terrible way to start in 0.0. A good corp will request you to hand out your limited api key and invite you into voicechat at least once to see if you fit into the corp.
Also, stop mining. It's not worth it. Unless you have pvp experience already you won't know how to protect yourself no matter where you are and when you've seen how much easier and painless one can make isk without touching a mining ship, you probably won't want to go back either. This goes for both empire and 0.0. Especially in Empire.
Btw..it's not 0.0 that's newbie unfriendly. There are just a lot of horrible corps that aren't investing anything in their new members to milk them for isk. I've helped lots of people starting out in our space over the years to make sure they don't run into frustrating brick walls all the time. My carriers always had a dozen replacement ships specifically for them..
Its not a problem for a new player to get into 0.0 early on, however it is very important you join the correct Corp.
The thing is, if your still new to Eve then your probably not experienced enough how to make a sound determination on the correct corp. Its not like you can just join any corp with Eve unfortunatly, chances are you'll go through loads of corps before finally settling.
So, to answer the question more directly, the way a new player deals with 0.0 is by having a lot of support from his corp and someone to make an personal effort in physically showing you things, as opposed to just telling you what to do.
I know players who have joined a corp, gone to 0.0 within the first week and never left. And yet some players with years and years of experience have never been to 0.0
Sure, they tried and help me from certain death.....but retrievers are weaksauce when it comes to tanking 0.0 rats....i was taken out in less than 6 volleys.....which is about the time it takes me to warp out.....so unless i have a hawk eye on my overview the entire time, its 50/50 if i survive or not.
as for my corp....they have helped me with replacement ships and whatnot whenever i make a newb mistake, I enjoy the company of my current corp...but lately i've noticed a huge drop in the corp's attendance and there seems to be a ton of drama going around. Anyone in a good/helpful 0.0 sec corp that "train" their new members in such things as pvp, simply getting around 0.0 etc?
I want to stay in 0.0, i think its fun so far with zero enforcement from concord.....maybe i just need a better corp idk.....but the thing is, most 0.0 corps ive seen have a SP requirement. any sigguestions?
Batole:
you said-- Also, stop mining. It's not worth it. Unless you have pvp experience already you won't know how to protect yourself no matter where you are and when you've seen how much easier and painless one can make isk without touching a mining ship, you probably won't want to go back either. This goes for both empire and 0.0. Especially in Empire.
please explain what you mean by much easier and painless one can make isk without touching a mining ship. I enjoy mining, and (correct me if im wrong) mining is the very foundation of everything in eve?
_The Sauce Man
If you are looking for easy you are in the wrong place grasshopper. There are many ways that living in Null can be a great benefit to a new player. If you make it for a year you will be a much better player than someone that has spent several years in empire, but you will have to do some research, come up with a plan, and have some friends.
You might think about PI and exploration, it's probably a little safer than sitting in a belt.
(secretly wishing I had scanned down your mining party)
if you enjoy mining then continue with it. Bato sometimes just doesnt know that people enjoy the more boring parts of eve. As for the corp, i dont know what to say, my first impression of reading your thread i thought that it was the corp that was terrible, and thats why you were having trouble. TBH if you enjoy the people and talking to them then stay with them, attendance it probably low because its still summer. If you aren't having fun, join a new corp or try something/somewhere else, otherwise if its just frustration, try and learn from your mistakes. Every ship you lose can teach you something, and eventually after you lose alot of ships and learn from you're mistakes, you'l find that you wont be losing as many ships as you are now.
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Not really.
Grab a cruiser or battlecruiser, fit it for close range, get a buddy in the same ship, go run some anomalies together. Much better isk.
Mining hasn't been the foundation for anything for years. Only minerals like tritanium and pyerite are mined mostly by "players" in highsec. 0.0 minerals have been in a steady decline for years.
Get yourself an experienced mentor who helps you and shows you the ropes. You need to learn how to use intel channels, watch the scanner, how to travel safely etc.
Also, as I said: Unless you know how to prey on people, you won't know how to defend yourself. Get your hands dirty in pvp to learn the tactics employed against you, so you know how to survive. If you just sit in a belt all day you won't learn how people catch and kill you.
Trust me, I'm not one to "look for the easy way" of doing things, I'm just having a hard time understanding the in's and out's of 0.0 sec. It's dificult for me to make decisions for traveling/making money etc. Whenever I need say, a skill book, and it's 15 jumps away, i have to plan for hours just to travel there, I don't know the JB paths too well and I havent memorized the names of regions in my alliances space, I usually end up taking a shuttle there and hope nobody notices lol.....so when i check out the intel channels.....i find myself having to look up every single region that has been reported. and when I find there are reds in my path of travel, im clueless on what to do to avoid them, other than retreat back to my home station. Call me stubborn but i REFUSE to make a bookmark for each and every jumpbridge and stargate (enterance and exit 3000km away) just so i can double my travel time to get from place to place. I don't get how people can do it. There just has to be an easier way.
As far as my corps attendance, I'm just assuming people are getting ready for starcraft 2 lol
I appreciate everyone sigguestions on alternative ways of making isk other than mining.....but like I said in my OP, i enjoy mining....its nice to just mine on my laptop while doing homework on my desktop....its very college friendly.
As far as PI and Exploration is concerned. I'm going to be looking into PI very soon, it has a certain appeal to it......but forgive my ignorance.....what do you mean by exploration? just scanning down a wormhole or something? (note, i have no idea what a wormhole technically is(in game) , what's in a wormhole, or what u can even do in there.) If you can give me a quick rundown of what it is, how it is profitable, and how i should start exploration, it would be greatly appreciated
and your right batole, I do need to get my hands dirty in PVP.....the 2 months ive been playing eve, the only PVP action I've ever seen was of me getting killed lol. I found it tough to find a good pvp fleet because everytime I would join a frig roaming fleet, they are usually 10-15 jumps away, and as i said before, i dont know the JB system that well....and the 2 times i've attempted catching up with the fleet to help out, I would get killed along the way
_The Sauce Man
Sounds like you're almost afraid to ask your corp questions. Do they put off that vibe, or have you just not tried asking them? They accepted you into the corp knowing you are a noob.. they should be willing to answer any questions you have, such as where the JB network is, how to get around quickly or get things you need. Where the best places to make ISK are.. etc..
Honestly, you've played for 3 days before joining them.. they shouldn't expect you to know everything. And if they just AREN'T helpful, then find another corp who is.
I recently just joined a 0.0 corp for the first time, and while I haven't done anything major with them yet, they have been very helpful. It's all just a matter of finding the right people. Do like I did, and make a post on the official forums looking for a corp.. list what you want to do, and what you want out of a corp. Guarantee your inbox will be crowded in a day or two.
hmmm... make an alt, train him/her to frig/crusier. join eve-uni.
ok, more. from my time in eve i can give some tips, from here is sound like you need to make some choices.
if you like going semi - afk while mineing nullsec might not be the best place for it. as we well know there is not "safe spot" in eve space, you can get killed even at 1.0, chances are you wont, but still can. going semi afk in 0.0 is not a good choice. maybe try 0.5 for a while and see how the ISK flow is going.
as i sad before eve-uni is a great place to get info about eve. from class to free skill books, ship replacement progrem, fleets, pvp, and lots more. with more then 1500 members there is always toon of people on.
for pure pvp join red vs. blue, but be ready to drian cash also.
for tips here is what i got, since you stated you have 3 mil sp and got a miner im guessing you can put some sp into other staff as in:better shields,warp-jump,armor, hull etc. put some meat on that miner of yours.
you asked if you should watch you monitor all the time, yES~!, you can use eve-uni overview setup:
http://www.eve-ivy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Overview_Setup
with this setup you will prob last longer, and its a big help. lets say while you mine, your on pvp jump tab, you will see the jumpgates and any incoming rats/reds coming for you. much easier.
when your buying something far away. buy 2. what i mean, if your buying something 15 jupms away, and you might lose it. be ready to have a spare for it. even though your corp give you new ships yuo will still need to fit them the way you like. for not going another 15 jumps for that cheap miner 2 or w/e, just plan a head and buy more of that item.
change setup, yes you want as much crago/yield you can get fora miner. but you also dont want to lose ships every day. warp core stb can be a life saver at times.
most and formost, have fun. eve is about doing what you like, not what you are told to do.
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Yeah mining is not the best way to make ISK... Highend combat oriented PVE tends to be the most straightforward way to earn ISK.
Mining isn't useless however, if your corp is manufacturing for example mining a specific ore when your supply of a needed mineral is running low for example. However, like most activities, mining is best done with friends. Fleet bonuses, Orca, haulers, chat; makes the whole experience MUCH much better. Typically my corp only mines when there is nothing else to do though or we need to refill mineral stock. If there are no anomalies and an open grav site I will do a little solo mining, otherwise there are better ways to spend my playtime.
For 0.0. I would take Bato's advice and run anomalies. If you clear all of the ones in the systems you roam, then go take the retriever out for a spin.
Also, Hulks have bonus to shield resists so it wouldn't get popped by 0.0 rats as easily; if you are willing to train up to one. Fortunately us wormholers don't have to worry about rats constantly harrassing us, we get 1 wave of rats per grav site
It's not the fact I am afraid to ask my corp questions, I'm just not online most of the time when the "big dogs" of the corp are online (they work on wacky time zones). The people that I do get responses from have helped me a great deal, but theres a lot of times where I simply get no responses from anyone. It's 50/50 really. I would ask someone to "take me under their wing" and train me over vent and such, but I simply don't have that kind of time, I play casually, Eve is on somewhat in the background while I do other things. Maybe I'm just not being patient, Eve is the only MMO I've ever played where I don't know the game inside out within the 1st month. I spend more time on the wiki sites and crazy long spreadsheets than the actual game lol. I'm going to give my corp another month or so and see how things go once I have my hulk (28 days left of training, woot!)
AFK mining is something I do on rare occasion, usually the laptop is sitting right next to me mining while I do stuff on the desktop. It's not really the reds that bother me (its very rare that they actually come to my region, mostly on the weekends) its the rats I have to worry about....but hopefully I shouldn't have to worry about that once I get my hulk where I can just tank them.
When I do go on a long 15-20 jump journey, believe me....I make that trip worth its while. I buy extras of whatever I need, and I usually make a "shopping list" as I play during the week.
My corp has this "Buyback program" where one of the guys takes a weekly trip to jita and sells ore, loot etc at jita prices.....I've found mining to be quite profitable actually (when I'm not dying lol)
I run anoms all the time with my drake (passive tanked). I usually run them when there currently isn't a mining op going on, which is a huge must....being that I cannot solo mine with a retriever (28 more days and that should change)
That's interesting, I didn't know that wormhole grav sites only have 1 wave of rats. Like I said in my previous post, I don't know diddly squat about wormholes so thats another world I have to start researching.
Thank you all for your responses
_The Sauce Man
Two things that are really helpful are having bounces on the gates and stations you frequent, and always staying aligned whenever you are not in warp.
Yes bounces are a real pain to set up and it can take some time. Still, all you need is a really fast frig and head 250km above or below a gate. For stations, just hit full speed as soon as you pop out. From 250km you can see the gate or station, and decide whether or not to warp to it.
Aligning is also a must. There is only one sun for each system, so it's very easy to set it to an overview tab. Every time you are stationary click that tab and align. If you get into trouble then, all you have to do is select it from the tab and hit the warp button.
TBH if you had been doing both of these things you would have avoided the problems you had. Both at the belt and station.
Just an example, you are mining and someone comes to the belt so (being aligned to the sun) you instawarp off, but he follows you to the sun. Then you warp to your gate bounce but he warps to the gate. Then you are gone and out of the system : )
Also, there is really no reason to ever get locked down by a rat while ratting. Especially in a missle boat. Stay our of range, know when to burn away, and know when to warp away.
Ok first off your not in 00 space if you had guns poping you when you warped to a stattion,
Also your corp sounds like shit if there not tanking rat spawns in the sytemt you are in.
But if you have only been plaing for a month and you can replace 7 retrievers then your doing pretty well.
But at the same time you should ALWAYS HAVE THE LOCAL SCREEN UP, and as soon as a red or neutrail enter system warp to the base immdeidaly.
Mining in OO space is not automatic its dangerous and you need to be aware of who is in the system with you always.
Easier said then done, I was tired and lazy the other day and llost a hulk and navy typhhon in an hour. god I hare peace time it makes me complacent
Okay, definitely shitty corp.
Recruiting newbies off timezone with no experienced people taking over mentoring is just another sign of a corp that just doesn't care. Might i ask the name of your corp?
Seriously, get yourself a better corp.
Dont fall under the misconception that a 0.0 corp (or even 0.0 life) is that much better than highsec/low-sec corp / life !
Personally I find low-sec corps much more fun, especially the Faction Warfare stuff. Lots of new players there.. and even the vet players dont fly anything massive.
A new player deals with 0.0 in almost exactly the same way that a Veteran player does.
I dont think your corp is 'crap' it just doesnt suit you, and yes, most 0.0 corps will demand a minimum SP, which means if the corp DOESNT demand a minimum SP it means they too are amatures just collecting as many players as possible to farm space.
Seriously, look for a low-sec corp, a Militia. Make sure they are in your time zone, make sure they have their own vent/teamspeak. make sure they have plenty of members, a ship replacment program of some form.
A corp needs you more than you need a corp, so demand things. Ask them how they are going to help get you settled, what system do they live in, how often to they run missions together, how often is enemy about, how far from high-sec is it.. so many questions to ask rly.
What.
My corp never had an sp limit, neither did half of the corps in my alliance. The same is true for a lot of seasoned corps. As long as someone fits into the existing social structure it's fine.
The opposite is true. Corps with a high sp limit are often highly unstable and home of lots of dramaqueens who were only recruited because of their sp, not because of their abilities.
lol, and how do you determine if "someone fits into the existing social structure" ?
If you accept 3m SP noobs into your 0.0 corp just because he's seems like a nice guy means that your risking your entire corp by exposing it to spy's and theifs. So no, I would never advice a new player join a corp like yours.
A new player who wants 0.0 action needs to be in a large, secure and proffesionally organised corp, not some corp who recruits based on a whim.
I dont mean any dis-respect to you OP, all i'm saying is that until you know how to judge a good corp from a bad one, stick with the low-sec corps or even have a stint with a high-sec corp, just to get the flavor of how good corps really work and how they organise.
When you look for a 0.0 corp again, you'll know the right questions to ask.
Have you ever seen a good corp from the inside?
My old corp makes sure new members fit in by assigning them a veteran as a mentor for their 30d/60d trial period and doing a quick background check during an interview on teamspeak. New members are only given access to ammo and t1 module hangars, with ship replacement directly handled by their mentor. If someone wants high level access for anything, he won't get it unless needed, and then only temporary. All directors know each other in real life. There has never been an incident in years..
If someone desperately wants to get access to mostly useless forums and teamspeak, there are better ways. Like buying a high sp character without using the character bazaar and thus getting him into a corp that cares less about their members. It's pretty easy.
People who let accumulated e-peen points guide their recruitment process are pretty easy to infiltrate.
1] What background does a 3m sp player have? You have absoloutly NO IDEA who he is.
2] Spy's are not interested in your loot. Theifs dont need hanger access to steal, Leechers dont need to be given anything to leech.
3] If noone is taking an interest in your corp, then your corp is un-interesting.
4] Regardless of Theives, spys and leechers, Skill Points indicate which ships you can fly and which modules you can use. at 3m SP you can barly defend himself, let alone defending territory. They arnt E-Peen points, they are SKILL points, if you dont have the skill points to use certain ships and modules then you dont have the experience either.
No, they're exclusively e-peen points. The ability to fly certain ships is more than covered by vets and is hardly an issue after only half a year for regular fleets.
You need people who do stuff; Organize, build and maintain. You don't find those by recruiting by the length of their accumulated skillpoints, because it's not skillpoints that matter there. Even someone without a subbed account can take over parts of corp maintenance.
Screening by corp history is largely inefficient. Undocumented character sales and accounts changing hands turn any fake sense of security by looking at their history into a high risk.
Initial screening and monitoring is far more efficient. You get people's Ip from the Ts and forums visits, you have a mentor who guides them.
Also, a 3m character is more than capable of handling 0.0, especially after getting a month of supervision by an experienced player. Dreddit and Goons more than just prove you wrong on that front.
as a newb, you made the classic fail by going into "endgame" situations way too quick.
-always align out or make sure you can warp out asap.
-in 0.0, anything goes.
-you failed to watch local as you would have seen enemies in local chat, so you shouldnt be in space anyways, you should have docked or be hiding in a pos shield for starters.
I should say go back to Empire and learn more before you go into the 0.0 zone.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Eve is a harsh cold place, by design.
Rule 1.
Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose.
Rule 2.
If you undock in it you count it as lost as soon as you hit that undock button.
Going out in 0.0 in a mining ship before you have developed your situational awareness is akin to committing suicide. You have to watch local like a hawk, you have to know who your friends are, anyone who is not a friend is probably an enemy, you have to fit for the situation (if npcs are scramming you before you can get out put a wcs on), you must always be aligned ready to get away.
I would suggest Ninja Mining to hone your skills and situational awareness and to make a little isk.
Make a spotter safespot at 200km from a belt (two is better as then there is uncertainty as to where you will arrive), then bm the position of some high value roids that are at least 150km away from your safespot. If you will be using an small agile ship thats usually enough if you are using ore ships then make a second bm in line 200ish km beyond the roid in line with your first SS or else as soon as you arrive at the roid you need to turn around and align for a safeplace (this is more dangerous if you arent absolutely sure local is clear of potential enemies and that there isnt a group waiting on the otherside of any gates to your system).
You check local before you undock to make sure its clear, if its not you shouldnt be mining, when you warp in you warp to one of the spotter safespots, you check the belt for rats, move to another belt if there are some and call a ratter to kill them, if its clear you warp to within 5 of the roid and align for warp out if necessary, as you are aligning, then and only then do you target the roid and activate your mining lasers. Do not deploy drones when ninja mining, of any kind. Waiting for a drone to come back is suicidal.
Local should be right there and extended as far as it will go if its a busy system, as soon as anything not showing as friendly appears you dock up. You can also dock up if someone shows as friendly but you dont KNOW that they are, standings changes usually lag behind the political landscape.
If rats arrive you warp out, preferrably to a dock or a spotter position in another belt, then you call a ratter in to take care of the rats.
Recommnded ships for ninja mining
Navitas (its small and fast enough to get out, especially with a wcs)
Tormentor (as navitas)
Probe (as navitas but you dont get the mining laser bonus, larger cargo hold though)
Skiff (ore sized cargo hold with 2 pts of wcs inbuilt)
Fair ships for Nija mining
Procurer (paper thin and not very agile, fair cargo hold)
Osprey (cruiser size so not as agile, larger hold and mining bonus)
Thorax (use if you have a hauler)
Scythe (as Osprey)
The only Ore ship that can stand on its own against rats for a little while in 0.0 is the Hulk, and that needs an expensive tank to do so, which makes you a target. Dont try to use the larger mining barges or the Mackinaw, theyre too big and too paper thin to survive on their own, and if you can use a mack you might as well wait for the hulk, doesnt take that much longer to train.
If you want to do some stand there in the belt mining i would recommend a battleship, Rohk or Geddon with a hauler. Rohk will tank better due to it being a shield tanker but dont expect it to stand up to a tripple conq spawn when you have the lows filled with cargo expanders, cpu's and MLU's. Try to make sure someone is ratting in system so you can call on them, and always, always be prepared to warp out.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
They don't accept it. They just take it.... Kind of like rape
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
Didnt read much of this thread.
Choadsaouce seems like youve ended up in one of the corps that dont give a damn about theyre people. How much is the corp tax? They dont protect the miners at all?
Id never stay in a corp like that..
Iam currently "not playing" in eve, just getting my skills for combat. Even with my limited 0.0 experience id say that its completly stupid to get blasted in a XX Mill bucket if you loose most of youre profits.
If the corp got you near NPC corp tax and dont really give a shit, then what does it matter if you "learn" by getting shot to pices by some random people that just happen on youre undefended self?
The people i know thats hanging in 0.0 dont have implants, they know that theyll get blasted at some point.
If you really want to have implants and hang in 0.0 you should get some standing with a npc corp and get a jump clone. Put the implants on the jumper and "be" there when youre not playing.
Even in high-sec you see miners guarded by someone. A good miner corp would have a good amount of miners with a solid group of ships defening while another small group picks up the jettison.
I might be wrong since iam not a miner, but thats the way id do it anyways.
Getting blown up all the time and making even is not cool. If that is the case, move youre stuff to a "safe" place, then leave the corp.
Actualy talking to people before jointing a corp/guild in a game is pretty revealing.
Some corps dont give a damn if you get blasted. Others will rape the ones who did it.
If i were a miner id rather be in a corp that were pvp focused than a pure mining corp. Maybe its hard to get accepted, but theyll jump at a chance to kill whoever is invading theyre system. I bet alot of corps dont mind you mining while theyre ratting ether.
Eve is pretty much a game where youre friend might be youre enemy. Maybe not directly, but people that just want you to midlessly do theyre bidding for a pittance of a reward, isnt really worth hanging out with.
If you hang out in high sec, it might be rewarding to have youre refine scrapmetal(cant remeber what its called) skill trained to max and salvage skill.
This way you can just follow a guy or a group and pick up theyre loot, and salvage and refine it. Might not be verry interresting and exiting, but its fairly safe, and without knowing for certain id think it pay well enough.
eve takes alot of time due to the skill system. Rushing to 0.0 might be tempting. But if you just get shot up with nothing to show for it, what is the point?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/261448/page/5
"I'd just like to see more games that focus on the world, and giving the people in it more of a role, im tired of these constant single player games that you can walk around with millions of people."
- Parsalin