Dedicated player can finish kotor in 2-3 days. And i mean do every damn thing there is to do in KOTOR.
So it means you can rip TOR in 30 days of semi-hc playing ?
no , you ( word here) . It means they have way more content than they can think of. They can't even tell you how many quests are in the game. When somebody says 10 times, it isn't meant to be taken literally, unless of course you are a person that doesn't understand that it is a figure of speech. They could have said 100 times more content, it is all the same. Surprised people are this dense and reading way too much into this thing.
"...if your group leader decides to kill the Captain although you’ve argued against it in the dialogue, instead of getting darkside points for killing him, you get instead, lightside points for arguing against it. “The puppy is still dead,” said James to much laughter. “But you don’t take the fall for it."
THIS will be the main reason why people will NOT group. Just saying. Points or not. We know decisions bite back, even when you dont get bad points, we know the game memorizes decisions. Its still a huge chance for grief and pain, whateveryasay.
Are you reading that correctly I didn't see anything in that post you quote that will make someone not group as a matter of fact it seems to alleviate more concerns than raising any if the group leader wants to be evil and you don't your actions decide how you are viewed what in being responsible only for your own choices is going to make people not want to group?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
“You can be as evil as a Jedi, or as good as a Sith as you like,” Alex reminded the audience, “But you cannot really switch factions. You never cross over.”
And there's my issue with this game in a nutshell. Part of the joy of KOTOR (and in fact pretty much all Biowar RPGS) is you could make yourself to be whatever you wanted. You could be good or evil. You could customize your skills to make your character play how you wanted them. You could ally yourself with whatever side you want.
So far ToR is telling us we're faction locked and have no chance to change, What if my Sith warrior wants to redeem himself, or my COnsular is driven down a path of vengeance that can only end in turning to the Dark Side? What if my merc wants to sell out to the highest bidder, or my Smuggler wants to switch sides as payback for some slight? They can't. Too bad. Oh, and let's not forget what so fat looks like a very limited talent system and holy-trintity based combat.
I'm disappointed Bioware. I know you can do better.
Man, 2 fantastic info reveals at Comic-Con this year! I wish I coulda been there, my friend sat in the panel discussion and said it was awesome.
With so much gameplay possible, so much story - and they've thought through potential repercussions of their mechanics - this game really is shaping up to be an insane game. Add this to space combat, amazing potential. I've been on the SWTOR forums since Oct 08, and I'm still eagerly anticipating this game.
2 Things that do worry me still:
1) “You can be as evil as a Jedi, or as good as a Sith as you like,” Alex reminded the audience, “But you cannot really switch factions. You never cross over.” -- I understand the rationale for this, however, this could prove too limiting for people's desire for storying ONE single character. This basically makes you reroll completely if you want to switch sides - but some people have a real loyalty to their 1st char and want to just keep the continuity of that char up. Additionally, I'm sure that the Sith Empire would welcome in Dark Jedi into their ranks, and the Republic might be tempted to work with spies/converts from the Sith. I could see this being changed in an expansion.
2) "Light saber restrictions are for gameplay reasons, to make the classes visually recognizable, so the Jedi Counselor, for example, will be restricted to a single light saber or pole only." -- BAD FORM PETER. This is a horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE decision, and Bioware will realize it after enough QQing from all the players who want to be a certain class with a different lightsaber style. Come on now, this seems like a very noob mistake.
Wholeheartedly disagree with your second point which is much the same as the poster above. For one this is nothing new (unless you guys are basing your mmo experience on SWG) there simply are not alot of games that allow you to switch factions whenever you feel like it so I wonder why there seems to be such surprise at this decision. And I think the last poster is the one who mentioned players getting attached to their characters and getting to be anything you wanted etc. I honestly have missed some of Biowares newer games like Dragon Age (just haven't installed it) and Mass Effect (only played mmo's around it's release) but other than that you cannot chose to be who you want in Bioware games KOTOR yes you could chose evil actions but that didn't change the story line or the fact that your character was a jedi maybe a falling one but a jedi none the less, same with Baldurs gate yes you could be evil as you wanted but it didn't change a players faction as in opening up entirely new possiblities unaivalable at your last alignment.
Terrant not sure if you are an original SWG player but you are really pushing a wrong sounding agenda with your post as I stated most Bioware games didn't even change with your choice because you used the more evil companions and made the evil decisions didn't change the gameplay of KOTOR at all again maybe the last few games they made did this but the gameplay you seem to be describing simply has not been a part of Bioware or any mmo ever with the exception of SWG, which actually from where I stand was a bad idea there was so much faction switching and screwing people over it wasn't even funny.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Wholeheartedly disagree with your second point which is much the same as the poster above. For one this is nothing new (unless you guys are basing your mmo experience on SWG) there simply are not alot of games that allow you to switch factions whenever you feel like it so I wonder why there seems to be such surprise at this decision. And I think the last poster is the one who mentioned players getting attached to their characters and getting to be anything you wanted etc. I honestly have missed some of Biowares newer games like Dragon Age (just haven't installed it) and Mass Effect (only played mmo's around it's release) but other than that you cannot chose to be who you want in Bioware games KOTOR yes you could chose evil actions but that didn't change the story line or the fact that your character was a jedi maybe a falling one but a jedi none the less, same with Baldurs gate yes you could be evil as you wanted but it didn't change a players faction as in opening up entirely new possiblities unaivalable at your last alignment.
People are surprised because it's Bioware, who all-but-invented the idea of the Open World "sandbox" RPG. And one of my fave MMOs ever, the original EQ< allowed you to switch factions. It's something I've missed for years now, since games like WoW have us all stuck in 2-3 stagnant faction contests.
“You can be as evil as a Jedi, or as good as a Sith as you like,” Alex reminded the audience, “But you cannot really switch factions. You never cross over.”
And there's my issue with this game in a nutshell. Part of the joy of KOTOR (and in fact pretty much all Biowar RPGS) is you could make yourself to be whatever you wanted. You could be good or evil. You could customize your skills to make your character play how you wanted them. You could ally yourself with whatever side you want.
So far ToR is telling us we're faction locked and have no chance to change, What if my Sith warrior wants to redeem himself, or my COnsular is driven down a path of vengeance that can only end in turning to the Dark Side? What if my merc wants to sell out to the highest bidder, or my Smuggler wants to switch sides as payback for some slight? They can't. Too bad. Oh, and let's not forget what so fat looks like a very limited talent system and holy-trintity based combat.
I'm disappointed Bioware. I know you can do better.
I don't get some of you people.
How many Horde players could defect to Alliance, or Alliance players defect to Horde? How many Asmodians can switch to Elyos side in Aion? Or in DAoC or Planetside switch to one of the other factions?
All MMO's where you're faction locked too.
What the Bioware devs made clear was that you still have freedom in your morality choices, only that you're stuck with the faction that you chose.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
For all of STOR's potential issues not being able to switch faction is not one of them. This is a MMO, where you fight other players, you can't just switch sides because fo a story option.
Wholeheartedly disagree with your second point which is much the same as the poster above. For one this is nothing new (unless you guys are basing your mmo experience on SWG) there simply are not alot of games that allow you to switch factions whenever you feel like it so I wonder why there seems to be such surprise at this decision. And I think the last poster is the one who mentioned players getting attached to their characters and getting to be anything you wanted etc. I honestly have missed some of Biowares newer games like Dragon Age (just haven't installed it) and Mass Effect (only played mmo's around it's release) but other than that you cannot chose to be who you want in Bioware games KOTOR yes you could chose evil actions but that didn't change the story line or the fact that your character was a jedi maybe a falling one but a jedi none the less, same with Baldurs gate yes you could be evil as you wanted but it didn't change a players faction as in opening up entirely new possiblities unaivalable at your last alignment.
People are surprised because it's Bioware, who all-but-invented the idea of the Open World "sandbox" RPG. And one of my fave MMOs ever, the original EQ< allowed you to switch factions. It's something I've missed for years now, since games like WoW have us all stuck in 2-3 stagnant faction contests.
I still challenge the assertion that switching alignments/factions is a Bioware staple since when? The last three games they made which are the ones I haven't played but they are all within the last five years I'd say not much of a staple if that's the case. So because EQ1 did this we are holding Bioware to that standard? I'm just not buying it out of one hundred percent of the games created with factional content maybe two percent allow a player to change factions so to me this is just looking for something to complain about. And WOW weren't first etc to do this it's been that way for quite some time and as a former SWG player (no suprise EQ1 and SWG made by SOE) I am glad they are not allowing people the chance to switch factions with the same toon it creates a whole crap load of drama I'd rather avoid internet gamers are fickle enough without giving them the opportunity to screw up the game play for hundreds of other players.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Wholeheartedly disagree with your second point which is much the same as the poster above. For one this is nothing new (unless you guys are basing your mmo experience on SWG) there simply are not alot of games that allow you to switch factions whenever you feel like it so I wonder why there seems to be such surprise at this decision. And I think the last poster is the one who mentioned players getting attached to their characters and getting to be anything you wanted etc. I honestly have missed some of Biowares newer games like Dragon Age (just haven't installed it) and Mass Effect (only played mmo's around it's release) but other than that you cannot chose to be who you want in Bioware games KOTOR yes you could chose evil actions but that didn't change the story line or the fact that your character was a jedi maybe a falling one but a jedi none the less, same with Baldurs gate yes you could be evil as you wanted but it didn't change a players faction as in opening up entirely new possiblities unaivalable at your last alignment.
People are surprised because it's Bioware, who all-but-invented the idea of the Open World "sandbox" RPG. And one of my fave MMOs ever, the original EQ< allowed you to switch factions. It's something I've missed for years now, since games like WoW have us all stuck in 2-3 stagnant faction contests.
switching factions or changing classes will cause you to miss out on the story. They don't want that, and really it's not the best thing in a game to be able to do. Seems like people want to be able to do whatever they want and if there is something they don't like they complain about it instead of except it for what it is. Bioware has a reason not to allow this, they made the game they want you to experience every aspect to the fullest. You will not like everything, but this is the game they have invisioned. They probably will not change it. I hope they do not. When you listen to a select few people on the forums , alot of times you get mixed ideas and mixed feelings, and sometimes you get people that don't even like the game and hoping it fails and just want to complain for the sake of complaining.
I would like to add that SOE caves in way too easily to the trolls on the forums. They wanted everything easy mode and now that is what they got. Perhaps they are trying to make up for the NGE disaster, but I think that was also started by a few trolls on the forums crying about the game mechanics.
Dedicated player can finish kotor in 2-3 days. And i mean do every damn thing there is to do in KOTOR.
So it means you can rip TOR in 30 days of semi-hc playing ?
Each class story amounts up to 200 hours of gameplay, so in total 800 hrs of class story for each side, 1600 hrs of fully unique class story content.
That is only the class story content: then added to that you have the World quests that everyone can do, the world arcs that are about the larger conflict, the exploration of the gigantic worlds that's being encouraged, the space combat, and that's only the things they have talked about, there's a lot they haven't talked about.
So I gather there will be enough to do. But gl trying to 'finish' SW:TOR and do everything there is to do within 30 days.
There is some massive inconsistencies here. There is no way in hell a Bioware game is any were even close to 200 hours and they have only described the class stories to be a bit bigger than a normal bioware game that not 100-150 hours bigger. Either that is refering to completing the world arcs and maybe world quests as well or there are some large differences to that statement than what they're currently saying.
Now lets assume that 100 hours of that is class story and 100 hours is world quests/arc which seems most to be true. That means since world quests/arcs are shared by faction there would only be about 1000 hours gameplay. That in itself means absolutely nothing at all since we have no idea if that 100 hours completely world arcs, or world arcs and some world quests or every single possible world quest/arc in the game which a very very small amount of people will even bother to complete.
They're vague advertising numbers from the developers. Even more specific information should be taken with a grain of salt since it's express purpose is to show the game in the most positive light possible.
Numbers like that could be generated in any number of ways and still technically be true. Come on people analyse the numbers before you quote them as anything close to fact.
“You can be as evil as a Jedi, or as good as a Sith as you like,” Alex reminded the audience, “But you cannot really switch factions. You never cross over.”
And there's my issue with this game in a nutshell. Part of the joy of KOTOR (and in fact pretty much all Biowar RPGS) is you could make yourself to be whatever you wanted. You could be good or evil. You could customize your skills to make your character play how you wanted them. You could ally yourself with whatever side you want.
So far ToR is telling us we're faction locked and have no chance to change, What if my Sith warrior wants to redeem himself, or my COnsular is driven down a path of vengeance that can only end in turning to the Dark Side? What if my merc wants to sell out to the highest bidder, or my Smuggler wants to switch sides as payback for some slight? They can't. Too bad. Oh, and let's not forget what so fat looks like a very limited talent system and holy-trintity based combat.
I'm disappointed Bioware. I know you can do better.
But you can have an evil character or a good character within your faction.
At some point, you the player, has to make a decision and go with it. You then have choice within that original choice and it seems that you can move back and forth within that faction.
Otherwise, as they stated, it starts becoming ridiculous. Every time a developer or writer adds a fork in the road it then creates more things that need to be tracked. At what point do they create a roof that the foundations, the walls, can't support?
Just pick a side that feels right and move within that side. If you think about it, you might have more choice within the parameters of your side than most games.
I don't recall one being more "evil or good" in any mmo. At least where the game world recognizes it. Of course in games like Dark Fall or Lineage 2 or "insert your ffa pvp game here" your actions iterate throughout the world.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
"...if your group leader decides to kill the Captain although you’ve argued against it in the dialogue, instead of getting darkside points for killing him, you get instead, lightside points for arguing against it. “The puppy is still dead,” said James to much laughter. “But you don’t take the fall for it."
THIS will be the main reason why people will NOT group. Just saying. Points or not. We know decisions bite back, even when you dont get bad points, we know the game memorizes decisions. Its still a huge chance for grief and pain, whateveryasay.
LOL, well me personally, that is one of the exact reasons I WILL be grouping up with others. I for one love and welcome the idea of unpredictible story turn out for my characters.
Ditto my friend. This concept is awesome and will cause me to create at least three toons, one light, one dark, and one that will randomly go through the game based on the individual events as they unfold.
Dedicated player can finish kotor in 2-3 days. And i mean do every damn thing there is to do in KOTOR.
So it means you can rip TOR in 30 days of semi-hc playing ?
Dude, you are seriously running out of ways to troll this game. Now that there is space combat 1600 hours of class quests, world quests, pvp, raiding, crafting, repeatable flashpoints, compainions that you can level and equip, etc.
After just reading his comments on it being 10 times longer than KoTOR for the class quests alone your latest attempt sounds feeble and week. Are you out of material troll?
There is some massive inconsistencies here. There is no way in hell a Bioware game is any were even close to 200 hours and they have only described the class stories to be a bit bigger than a normal bioware game that not 100-150 hours bigger. Either that is refering to completing the world arcs and maybe world quests as well or there are some large differences to that statement than what they're currently saying.
Now lets assume that 100 hours of that is class story and 100 hours is world quests/arc which seems most to be true. That means since world quests/arcs are shared by faction there would only be about 1000 hours gameplay. That in itself means absolutely nothing at all since we have no idea if that 100 hours completely world arcs, or world arcs and some world quests or every single possible world quest/arc in the game which a very very small amount of people will even bother to complete.
They're vague advertising numbers from the developers. Even more specific information should be taken with a grain of salt since it's express purpose is to show the game in the most positive light possible.
Numbers like that could be generated in any number of ways and still technically be true. Come on people analyse the numbers before you quote them as anything close to fact.
Interesting. So what you're doing is believing them as they say SW TOR will be like a 'KOTOR 3,4,5,6 etc' when it comes to the class gameplay experience, but you're saying that 'people should analyse the numbers before quoting' when it comes down to the number of 200 hrs, just because you have trouble believing it?
Just because some people have trouble believing SW TOR will not be a singleplayer game with MMO features but will be a true MMO, doesn't mean that those people are right.
There's no way to analyse the numbers unless someone has played through the whole story content of a class. Since none of us are able to do that, what the devs are saying is all to go by.
What they've stated was clear:
- each class will have 200 hours of story content.
- each class story content will be fully unique from beginning to end.
Whether you have to go through all the story content or can ignore parts of it - or maybe won't encounter parts of it because of the morality choices you made - is another question. Whether you like to believe what the devs say or not is up to each person themselves. Until there's additional information or proof that contradicts it, I see no reason myself to doubt them in this.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There is some massive inconsistencies here. There is no way in hell a Bioware game is any were even close to 200 hours and they have only described the class stories to be a bit bigger than a normal bioware game that not 100-150 hours bigger. Either that is refering to completing the world arcs and maybe world quests as well or there are some large differences to that statement than what they're currently saying.
Now lets assume that 100 hours of that is class story and 100 hours is world quests/arc which seems most to be true. That means since world quests/arcs are shared by faction there would only be about 1000 hours gameplay. That in itself means absolutely nothing at all since we have no idea if that 100 hours completely world arcs, or world arcs and some world quests or every single possible world quest/arc in the game which a very very small amount of people will even bother to complete.
They're vague advertising numbers from the developers. Even more specific information should be taken with a grain of salt since it's express purpose is to show the game in the most positive light possible.
Numbers like that could be generated in any number of ways and still technically be true. Come on people analyse the numbers before you quote them as anything close to fact.
That depends on whether they're describing it as 200 hours of game-play (quest completion as well as dialogue, an estimated guess), or if they're describing it as purely 200 hours of recorded dialogue.
Their wording has been 200 hours per class story. That's hinting more toward recorded dialogue + questing, which I could be completely wrong in that guess.
However, when they reference complete recorded dialogue the number has been an ungodly amount.
You're right there are many ways they could break these numbers down, mostly geared for marketing purposes. What they have said boldly is each class story is much more gameplay/dialogue than KOTOR.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There is some massive inconsistencies here. There is no way in hell a Bioware game is any were even close to 200 hours and they have only described the class stories to be a bit bigger than a normal bioware game that not 100-150 hours bigger. Either that is refering to completing the world arcs and maybe world quests as well or there are some large differences to that statement than what they're currently saying.
Now lets assume that 100 hours of that is class story and 100 hours is world quests/arc which seems most to be true. That means since world quests/arcs are shared by faction there would only be about 1000 hours gameplay. That in itself means absolutely nothing at all since we have no idea if that 100 hours completely world arcs, or world arcs and some world quests or every single possible world quest/arc in the game which a very very small amount of people will even bother to complete.
They're vague advertising numbers from the developers. Even more specific information should be taken with a grain of salt since it's express purpose is to show the game in the most positive light possible.
Numbers like that could be generated in any number of ways and still technically be true. Come on people analyse the numbers before you quote them as anything close to fact.
Interesting. So what you're doing is believing them as they say SW TOR will be like a 'KOTOR 3,4,5,6 etc' when it comes to the class gameplay experience, but you're saying that 'people should analyse the numbers before quoting' when it comes down to the number of 200 hrs, just because you have trouble believing it?
Just because some people have trouble believing SW TOR will not be a singleplayer game with MMO features but will be a true MMO, doesn't mean that those people are right.
There's no way to analyse the numbers unless someone has played through the whole story content of a class. Since none of us are able to do that, what the devs are saying is all to go by.
What they've stated was clear:
- each class will have 200 hours of story content.
- each class story content will be fully unique from beginning to end.
Whether you have to go through all the story content or can ignore parts of it - or maybe won't encounter parts of it because of the morality choices you made - is another question. Whether you like to believe what the devs say or not is up to each person themselves. Until there's additional information or proof that contradicts it, I see no reason myself to doubt them in this.
That's all fine a good but they themselves have said this. I can quote it in fact "every class has a story about the size of kotor even bigger" http://comic-con.gamespot.com/video/6270912/ 08.50
Now riddle me this was kotor anywhere near 200 hours long. Even the "even bigger" doesn't particluarly hint at it being close to 4 times as big otherwise I'm most certainly sure he would of said it.
Dedicated player can finish kotor in 2-3 days. And i mean do every damn thing there is to do in KOTOR.
So it means you can rip TOR in 30 days of semi-hc playing ?
Each class story amounts up to 200 hours of gameplay, so in total 800 hrs of class story for each side, 1600 hrs of fully unique class story content.
That is only the class story content: then added to that you have the World quests that everyone can do, the world arcs that are about the larger conflict, the exploration of the gigantic worlds that's being encouraged, the space combat, and that's only the things they have talked about, there's a lot they haven't talked about.
So I gather there will be enough to do. But gl trying to 'finish' SW:TOR and do everything there is to do within 30 days.
if someone's life is so pathetically empty that all they have is trying to blow through a game with 1600 hours plus of content in as short amount of time as possible, i think they have more important issues to deal with, then worry about any video game ....
Learn to read
I commented on previous comment that claims TOR is x10 bigger than KOTOR
Kotor was 30 hours gameplay. That puts TOR at only 300 hours gameplay. Judging from the comment i was talking about.
Alas LEARN HOW TO READ
But you're still wrong though.
Fairly common occurrence for you though, so we're not batting an eye.
Dedicated player can finish kotor in 2-3 days. And i mean do every damn thing there is to do in KOTOR.
So it means you can rip TOR in 30 days of semi-hc playing ?
Each class story amounts up to 200 hours of gameplay, so in total 800 hrs of class story for each side, 1600 hrs of fully unique class story content.
That is only the class story content: then added to that you have the World quests that everyone can do, the world arcs that are about the larger conflict, the exploration of the gigantic worlds that's being encouraged, the space combat, and that's only the things they have talked about, there's a lot they haven't talked about.
So I gather there will be enough to do. But gl trying to 'finish' SW:TOR and do everything there is to do within 30 days.
if someone's life is so pathetically empty that all they have is trying to blow through a game with 1600 hours plus of content in as short amount of time as possible, i think they have more important issues to deal with, then worry about any video game ....
Learn to read
I commented on previous comment that claims TOR is x10 bigger than KOTOR
Kotor was 30 hours gameplay. That puts TOR at only 300 hours gameplay. Judging from the comment i was talking about.
Alas LEARN HOW TO READ
But you're still wrong though.
Fairly common occurrence for you though, so we're not batting an eye.
WTF ?!
Ok..let me meake this even more simple. For obvious retards out there.
- Poster above me said TOR has 10 times the content KOTOR has.
- KOTOR has 30 hours of gameplay
- 10*30 = 300
- Casual gamer plays 20 hours a week
- That would make TOR playable completely and with all classes in 100 CASUAL gameplay days (or 30 hc)
THIS I DO NOT BELIVE TO BE A CASE <- I am on your side Fanboy (if you only learn how to read and understand)
Dedicated player can finish kotor in 2-3 days. And i mean do every damn thing there is to do in KOTOR.
So it means you can rip TOR in 30 days of semi-hc playing ?
Each class story amounts up to 200 hours of gameplay, so in total 800 hrs of class story for each side, 1600 hrs of fully unique class story content.
That is only the class story content: then added to that you have the World quests that everyone can do, the world arcs that are about the larger conflict, the exploration of the gigantic worlds that's being encouraged, the space combat, and that's only the things they have talked about, there's a lot they haven't talked about.
So I gather there will be enough to do. But gl trying to 'finish' SW:TOR and do everything there is to do within 30 days.
if someone's life is so pathetically empty that all they have is trying to blow through a game with 1600 hours plus of content in as short amount of time as possible, i think they have more important issues to deal with, then worry about any video game ....
Learn to read
I commented on previous comment that claims TOR is x10 bigger than KOTOR
Kotor was 30 hours gameplay. That puts TOR at only 300 hours gameplay. Judging from the comment i was talking about.
Alas LEARN HOW TO READ
But you're still wrong though.
Fairly common occurrence for you though, so we're not batting an eye.
WTF ?!
Ok..let me meake this even more simple. For obvious retards out there.
- Poster above me said TOR has 10 times the content KOTOR has.
- KOTOR has 30 hours of gameplay
- 10*30 = 300
- Casual gamer plays 20 hours a week
- That would make TOR playable completely and with all classes in 100 CASUAL gameplay days (or 30 hc)
THIS I DO NOT BELIVE TO BE A CASE <- I am on your side Fanboy (if you only learn how to read and understand)
Just something else for people to complain about. You guys know you can't take 10 times more content literally. I think they also said they had more content then wow at one time, correct me if I am wrong here. So what is the point? Just something else to bitch about? How much content is in your precious PRE CU? How much content is in EVE? What about any of those other sandbox mmo's that you praise so much. Hardly any.
"The Bioware team of writers is three times as large as the Knights of the Old Republic team and have been working on the story three times as long. “It’s an enormous challenge and yet incredibly satisfying working this huge blank canvas,” said Alex, “Every class in The Old Republic has a story longer than KOTOR.” Then as you add on the multiplayer story, the World quests and the personal quests, you’ll see that SW:TOR begins to amount to ten times (and larger) the size and story of KOTOR."
They way I read it the 3x3=9 is the same number as the 10 in the last sentence, they just rounded it up.
So the way I read it, the story is 9 or 10 (or even more) the size as in KOTOR, with ALL classes combined.
You have 8 classes and some stories overlap or will be the same, it still can't be more then twice the story size for ONE class compared to the whole story size in KOTOR.
So if you can be an evil jedi or good sith, what is the point of alignment? How does it effect gameplay if you can't switch factions? Will it be the KOTOR method of force powers being less potent if your an evil jedi and if so what would be the point in ever making a choice that isn't goodie goodie or vice versa for sith?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I want an in-game companion like HK-47, and hope he doesn't try to kill me :P
"I am the harbinger of hope. I am the sword of the righteous. And to all who hear my words, I say this: What you give to this Empire, I shall give back unto you." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I
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no , you ( word here) . It means they have way more content than they can think of. They can't even tell you how many quests are in the game. When somebody says 10 times, it isn't meant to be taken literally, unless of course you are a person that doesn't understand that it is a figure of speech. They could have said 100 times more content, it is all the same. Surprised people are this dense and reading way too much into this thing.
Are you reading that correctly I didn't see anything in that post you quote that will make someone not group as a matter of fact it seems to alleviate more concerns than raising any if the group leader wants to be evil and you don't your actions decide how you are viewed what in being responsible only for your own choices is going to make people not want to group?
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
“You can be as evil as a Jedi, or as good as a Sith as you like,” Alex reminded the audience, “But you cannot really switch factions. You never cross over.”
And there's my issue with this game in a nutshell. Part of the joy of KOTOR (and in fact pretty much all Biowar RPGS) is you could make yourself to be whatever you wanted. You could be good or evil. You could customize your skills to make your character play how you wanted them. You could ally yourself with whatever side you want.
So far ToR is telling us we're faction locked and have no chance to change, What if my Sith warrior wants to redeem himself, or my COnsular is driven down a path of vengeance that can only end in turning to the Dark Side? What if my merc wants to sell out to the highest bidder, or my Smuggler wants to switch sides as payback for some slight? They can't. Too bad. Oh, and let's not forget what so fat looks like a very limited talent system and holy-trintity based combat.
I'm disappointed Bioware. I know you can do better.
Wholeheartedly disagree with your second point which is much the same as the poster above. For one this is nothing new (unless you guys are basing your mmo experience on SWG) there simply are not alot of games that allow you to switch factions whenever you feel like it so I wonder why there seems to be such surprise at this decision. And I think the last poster is the one who mentioned players getting attached to their characters and getting to be anything you wanted etc. I honestly have missed some of Biowares newer games like Dragon Age (just haven't installed it) and Mass Effect (only played mmo's around it's release) but other than that you cannot chose to be who you want in Bioware games KOTOR yes you could chose evil actions but that didn't change the story line or the fact that your character was a jedi maybe a falling one but a jedi none the less, same with Baldurs gate yes you could be evil as you wanted but it didn't change a players faction as in opening up entirely new possiblities unaivalable at your last alignment.
Terrant not sure if you are an original SWG player but you are really pushing a wrong sounding agenda with your post as I stated most Bioware games didn't even change with your choice because you used the more evil companions and made the evil decisions didn't change the gameplay of KOTOR at all again maybe the last few games they made did this but the gameplay you seem to be describing simply has not been a part of Bioware or any mmo ever with the exception of SWG, which actually from where I stand was a bad idea there was so much faction switching and screwing people over it wasn't even funny.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
People are surprised because it's Bioware, who all-but-invented the idea of the Open World "sandbox" RPG. And one of my fave MMOs ever, the original EQ< allowed you to switch factions. It's something I've missed for years now, since games like WoW have us all stuck in 2-3 stagnant faction contests.
I don't get some of you people.
How many Horde players could defect to Alliance, or Alliance players defect to Horde? How many Asmodians can switch to Elyos side in Aion? Or in DAoC or Planetside switch to one of the other factions?
All MMO's where you're faction locked too.
What the Bioware devs made clear was that you still have freedom in your morality choices, only that you're stuck with the faction that you chose.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
For all of STOR's potential issues not being able to switch faction is not one of them. This is a MMO, where you fight other players, you can't just switch sides because fo a story option.
I still challenge the assertion that switching alignments/factions is a Bioware staple since when? The last three games they made which are the ones I haven't played but they are all within the last five years I'd say not much of a staple if that's the case. So because EQ1 did this we are holding Bioware to that standard? I'm just not buying it out of one hundred percent of the games created with factional content maybe two percent allow a player to change factions so to me this is just looking for something to complain about. And WOW weren't first etc to do this it's been that way for quite some time and as a former SWG player (no suprise EQ1 and SWG made by SOE) I am glad they are not allowing people the chance to switch factions with the same toon it creates a whole crap load of drama I'd rather avoid internet gamers are fickle enough without giving them the opportunity to screw up the game play for hundreds of other players.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
switching factions or changing classes will cause you to miss out on the story. They don't want that, and really it's not the best thing in a game to be able to do. Seems like people want to be able to do whatever they want and if there is something they don't like they complain about it instead of except it for what it is. Bioware has a reason not to allow this, they made the game they want you to experience every aspect to the fullest. You will not like everything, but this is the game they have invisioned. They probably will not change it. I hope they do not. When you listen to a select few people on the forums , alot of times you get mixed ideas and mixed feelings, and sometimes you get people that don't even like the game and hoping it fails and just want to complain for the sake of complaining.
I would like to add that SOE caves in way too easily to the trolls on the forums. They wanted everything easy mode and now that is what they got. Perhaps they are trying to make up for the NGE disaster, but I think that was also started by a few trolls on the forums crying about the game mechanics.
There is some massive inconsistencies here. There is no way in hell a Bioware game is any were even close to 200 hours and they have only described the class stories to be a bit bigger than a normal bioware game that not 100-150 hours bigger. Either that is refering to completing the world arcs and maybe world quests as well or there are some large differences to that statement than what they're currently saying.
Now lets assume that 100 hours of that is class story and 100 hours is world quests/arc which seems most to be true. That means since world quests/arcs are shared by faction there would only be about 1000 hours gameplay. That in itself means absolutely nothing at all since we have no idea if that 100 hours completely world arcs, or world arcs and some world quests or every single possible world quest/arc in the game which a very very small amount of people will even bother to complete.
They're vague advertising numbers from the developers. Even more specific information should be taken with a grain of salt since it's express purpose is to show the game in the most positive light possible.
Numbers like that could be generated in any number of ways and still technically be true. Come on people analyse the numbers before you quote them as anything close to fact.
But you can have an evil character or a good character within your faction.
At some point, you the player, has to make a decision and go with it. You then have choice within that original choice and it seems that you can move back and forth within that faction.
Otherwise, as they stated, it starts becoming ridiculous. Every time a developer or writer adds a fork in the road it then creates more things that need to be tracked. At what point do they create a roof that the foundations, the walls, can't support?
Just pick a side that feels right and move within that side. If you think about it, you might have more choice within the parameters of your side than most games.
I don't recall one being more "evil or good" in any mmo. At least where the game world recognizes it. Of course in games like Dark Fall or Lineage 2 or "insert your ffa pvp game here" your actions iterate throughout the world.
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Ditto my friend. This concept is awesome and will cause me to create at least three toons, one light, one dark, and one that will randomly go through the game based on the individual events as they unfold.
Dude, you are seriously running out of ways to troll this game. Now that there is space combat 1600 hours of class quests, world quests, pvp, raiding, crafting, repeatable flashpoints, compainions that you can level and equip, etc.
After just reading his comments on it being 10 times longer than KoTOR for the class quests alone your latest attempt sounds feeble and week. Are you out of material troll?
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
lol this is gonna be so good! =D
Interesting. So what you're doing is believing them as they say SW TOR will be like a 'KOTOR 3,4,5,6 etc' when it comes to the class gameplay experience, but you're saying that 'people should analyse the numbers before quoting' when it comes down to the number of 200 hrs, just because you have trouble believing it?
Just because some people have trouble believing SW TOR will not be a singleplayer game with MMO features but will be a true MMO, doesn't mean that those people are right.
There's no way to analyse the numbers unless someone has played through the whole story content of a class. Since none of us are able to do that, what the devs are saying is all to go by.
What they've stated was clear:
- each class will have 200 hours of story content.
- each class story content will be fully unique from beginning to end.
Whether you have to go through all the story content or can ignore parts of it - or maybe won't encounter parts of it because of the morality choices you made - is another question. Whether you like to believe what the devs say or not is up to each person themselves. Until there's additional information or proof that contradicts it, I see no reason myself to doubt them in this.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That depends on whether they're describing it as 200 hours of game-play (quest completion as well as dialogue, an estimated guess), or if they're describing it as purely 200 hours of recorded dialogue.
Their wording has been 200 hours per class story. That's hinting more toward recorded dialogue + questing, which I could be completely wrong in that guess.
However, when they reference complete recorded dialogue the number has been an ungodly amount.
You're right there are many ways they could break these numbers down, mostly geared for marketing purposes. What they have said boldly is each class story is much more gameplay/dialogue than KOTOR.
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That's all fine a good but they themselves have said this. I can quote it in fact "every class has a story about the size of kotor even bigger" http://comic-con.gamespot.com/video/6270912/ 08.50
Now riddle me this was kotor anywhere near 200 hours long. Even the "even bigger" doesn't particluarly hint at it being close to 4 times as big otherwise I'm most certainly sure he would of said it.
But you're still wrong though.
Fairly common occurrence for you though, so we're not batting an eye.
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WTF ?!
Ok..let me meake this even more simple. For obvious retards out there.
- Poster above me said TOR has 10 times the content KOTOR has.
- KOTOR has 30 hours of gameplay
- 10*30 = 300
- Casual gamer plays 20 hours a week
- That would make TOR playable completely and with all classes in 100 CASUAL gameplay days (or 30 hc)
THIS I DO NOT BELIVE TO BE A CASE <- I am on your side Fanboy (if you only learn how to read and understand)
This is going to be absolutely fantastic! My only criticism is that Bioware can't get it in my hands sooner.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
8 classes with 200 hours of class story each is 1600 hours. How can you that in 2-3 days?
Just something else for people to complain about. You guys know you can't take 10 times more content literally. I think they also said they had more content then wow at one time, correct me if I am wrong here. So what is the point? Just something else to bitch about? How much content is in your precious PRE CU? How much content is in EVE? What about any of those other sandbox mmo's that you praise so much. Hardly any.
"The Bioware team of writers is three times as large as the Knights of the Old Republic team and have been working on the story three times as long. “It’s an enormous challenge and yet incredibly satisfying working this huge blank canvas,” said Alex, “Every class in The Old Republic has a story longer than KOTOR.” Then as you add on the multiplayer story, the World quests and the personal quests, you’ll see that SW:TOR begins to amount to ten times (and larger) the size and story of KOTOR."
They way I read it the 3x3=9 is the same number as the 10 in the last sentence, they just rounded it up.
So the way I read it, the story is 9 or 10 (or even more) the size as in KOTOR, with ALL classes combined.
You have 8 classes and some stories overlap or will be the same, it still can't be more then twice the story size for ONE class compared to the whole story size in KOTOR.
So if you can be an evil jedi or good sith, what is the point of alignment? How does it effect gameplay if you can't switch factions? Will it be the KOTOR method of force powers being less potent if your an evil jedi and if so what would be the point in ever making a choice that isn't goodie goodie or vice versa for sith?
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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