You know, I just love boiling it down to the pure essence of the argument. Do you bitch when you go to Wendy's that they don't serve Big Macs?
Square Enix is it's own influence. Sure, they'll have a look outside their box to see who is doing what, but their vision of a finished product is solid. Sticking to your guns and your core principles, be it in business or personal ethics is an admirable trait.
I for one would hate for this game to be yet another vanilla title, trying to be something it's not meant to be.
You know, I just love boiling it down to the pure essence of the argument. Do you bitch when you go to Wendy's that they don't serve Big Macs?
Square Enix is it's own influence. Sure, they'll have a look outside their box to see who is doing what, but their vision of a finished product is solid. Sticking to your guns and your core principles, be it in business or personal ethics is an admirable trait.
I for one would hate for this game to be yet another vanilla title, trying to be something it's not meant to be.
Yeah cause jumping makes a game vanilla.....
I think there is a whole dimension of reason that escapes your perception. I won't bother.
IMO I could care less about watching every jack piece running by jumping spinning in the air and the what have you that comes with it. Next thing you know there will be a thread about not having any flying mounts or some other crap. WTF u mean i cant shape shift!??! wish you all would go play ur game that gives all these gimmicks to keep ur dollars spent on them and leave this games furoms alone to peeps that have legit disscussion or intel on this game. Seriously, all this game is bringing and we typing about jumping, lol.
Jumping is just a proxy arguement for "freedom of movement"... just like swimming and sitting.
It's like if the game had you walk everywhere.....
You know, I just love boiling it down to the pure essence of the argument. Do you bitch when you go to Wendy's that they don't serve Big Macs?
Square Enix is it's own influence. Sure, they'll have a look outside their box to see who is doing what, but their vision of a finished product is solid. Sticking to your guns and your core principles, be it in business or personal ethics is an admirable trait.
I for one would hate for this game to be yet another vanilla title, trying to be something it's not meant to be.
Yeah cause jumping makes a game vanilla.....
I think there is a whole dimension of reason that escapes your perception. I won't bother.
LOL or you're just a fanboy with a terrible arguement?
Cause wanting to jump or swim in an MMO is like wanting a big mac at wendy's? Whhhhha? If by dimension of reason you mean stupid then sure.
(see I'll just come out and call you stupid cause your arguement is just that bad mr fanboy)
I think the original poster's mention of the difference between an emphasis on the MMO aspect compared to the RPG aspect is a very valid one. In the past almost-fifteen years I've seen many mmorpg's launch; some were very successful, and others failed miserably. I think one of the key differences between the successes and the failures was where they were placing their emphasis. Many games seem to launch with a generic appeal, eager to draw in anyone and everyone. Then, a month later, everyone is complaining about how they are sorely disappointed because they, in truth, have very little substance. Others seem to maintain a healthy core playerbase years and years after their launch; yet, they never attempted to appeal to the millions of players worldwide. Instead, they launched a game that they envisioned, with what seems to be a "take it or leave it" attitude. I'm not looking to play a game that everyone wants to play. I prefer to wait for those games that actually appeal to me, because, honestly, I don't necessarily want what everyone else wants. An excellent example is PVP. I don't want it. I'm not saying it's not good or not fun, but i prefer games without it. I'm the type of person that likes to play games that require cooperation and teamwork, not griefing or aggression. And yes, I'm aware PVP can involve cooperation and teamwork... but that's an entirely different thread. And, considering my stance on pvp, I'd much prefer to simply remove myself from it and from most arguing about it, and leave it to those who enjoy it. My ideal game does not devote time and resources towards something which I am not interested in. Instead, they are developing, adding, and refining the features that I do enjoy. And if no pvp excludes a specific demographic... well... dare I say, good? And before anyone complains that it's their game too, so they should get what they want... Wrong. It's not our game. It's the developers'. It's no different than someone arguing that there absolutely must be some form of racing because they like racing games. Clearly, it might be a good idea to look elsewhere.
I think jumping and swimming can easily fall into the "appeal to the masses" category. Is it really necessary to be able to jump? Not particularily. In real life, I have the ability, and let me say that I rarely use it. Will I jump a fence, or walk around it? I'll walk around it 99.9% of the time. Honestly, I cannot even remember the last time I really jumped. I certainly don't leap around as I'm walking around.
And swimming? When was the last time I found anything exceptionally interesting in an mmorpg that was underwater? True, WOW had some really beautiful places to explore underwater, but overall, there was very little substance. From a technical perspective, I'd much rather a developer spend all the time and resources on something a lot more productive, such as engaging storylines, quests, even new content. I think the work:reward ratio is not particularily in favor of implimenting something such as swimming. Mind you, I'm not a programmer or game designer, so perhaps it's easier than I would imagine it to be. Even still, I'd rather just skim the useless fluff and give me something of substance. And for anyone that claims it's necessary for immersion... really? I've been immersed in numerous games, movies, novels, etc, that never took place underwater. If it's a feature, great. If not, I'm going to assume the time and resources are being used on something much more rewarding.
This game doesn't have talent trees or pvp. There's no freedom to do anything if you're forced to PvE all the time. The gameplay is also very slow and boring, it's like you have to wait before being able to do anything. I also can't play this game on my 6 year old computer and I'm able to play another game more popular on max settings.
Why is this game on universal servers. Like who wants to talk to foreigners, they hate us anyway. Why are there 18 classes, that's too many and i'm always going to be left out of a group because Pugilists are going to be an overplayed class. I also heard that you can't reallocate points whenever you want and you have to wait for a cooldown. That's just forcing people into one decision... where's the freedom in that?
Someone told me that this game is better played on a controller? WTF, this is a PC game and an MMO, if you can't play using a mouse and keyboard, then it's a game breaker for me. If I wanted to play using a controler, I'd play Halo. They also better have achievements. I also would like to be able to fly. Maybe you can raise chocobos and have them fly. Flying mounts are awesome and If i can't fly, then this game is 3 steps backwards.
Don't even let me get started about not being able to jump and swim.
This game doesn't have talent trees or pvp. There's no freedom to do anything if you're forced to PvE all the time. The gameplay is also very slow and boring, it's like you have to wait before being able to do anything. I also can't play this game on my 6 year old computer and I'm able to play another game more popular on max settings.
Why is this game on universal servers. Like who wants to talk to foreigners, they hate us anyway. Why are there 18 classes, that's too many and i'm always going to be left out of a group because Pugilists are going to be an overplayed class. I also heard that you can't reallocate points whenever you want and you have to wait for a cooldown. That's just forcing people into one decision... where's the freedom in that?
Someone told me that this game is better played on a controller? WTF, this is a PC game and an MMO, if you can't play using a mouse and keyboard, then it's a game breaker for me. If I wanted to play using a controler, I'd play Halo. They also better have achievements. I also would like to be able to fly. Maybe you can raise chocobos and have them fly. Flying mounts are awesome and If i can't fly, then this game is 3 steps backwards.
Don't even let me get started about not being able to jump and swim.
This game doesn't have talent trees or pvp. There's no freedom to do anything if you're forced to PvE all the time. The gameplay is also very slow and boring, it's like you have to wait before being able to do anything. I also can't play this game on my 6 year old computer and I'm able to play another game more popular on max settings.
Why is this game on universal servers. Like who wants to talk to foreigners, they hate us anyway. Why are there 18 classes, that's too many and i'm always going to be left out of a group because Pugilists are going to be an overplayed class. I also heard that you can't reallocate points whenever you want and you have to wait for a cooldown. That's just forcing people into one decision... where's the freedom in that?
Someone told me that this game is better played on a controller? WTF, this is a PC game and an MMO, if you can't play using a mouse and keyboard, then it's a game breaker for me. If I wanted to play using a controler, I'd play Halo. They also better have achievements. I also would like to be able to fly. Maybe you can raise chocobos and have them fly. Flying mounts are awesome and If i can't fly, then this game is 3 steps backwards.
Don't even let me get started about not being able to jump and swim.
It's the same every time... Try to reason with the trolls and you wind up with a migraine.
Visiting these forums is all too akin to masochism.
QFT
Well this thread had the best intro so far on the subject but either way if you play you play if you dont you don't not too big a deal. One thing I do wonder is if SE has a model where they figure out how much they lose on not having jump in terms of subs vs the developement money to place jumping in at this point? Considering the engine they are using it might literally be impossible to do.
the reason I respect SE is basically the reason you stated in your post. While everyone else cares about making an mmo that makes them the most money/subs, SE seems to stick to their guns about the way they like to make their games.
I think I'll sum up my complaints with a barely related example. I've been playing MMOs since just after their infancy. They may have started eating solid foods about the time I started playing and hadn't yet started forming coherant acronyms. In all that time I have only ever once had an MMO company delete my characters and account, and inform me that I would have to buy a new copy of the game and start over because I had spent too much time before attempting to resubscribe. I can still log into Everquest and log in my original character that I made the day I bought the game. I can log into anarchy online and my characters are still there, and I never played that past the free month.
SquareEnix doesn't give a crap about any of you or what you want. Just make sure to pay for the subscription every month because apparently the price of data storage in Japan is only slightly less than an apartment rental. They can't afford to keep that up for free, you free loading non-subscribers.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
i just dont expect there to be jumping and swiming in a ff game. i dont mind the feature in otehr mmos BUT i havetn found an mmo that i really like that has it. SO please stop QQing about it people
I think that SE could patch in a jumping and swimming PvP mini game post launch for XIV
I think I'll sum up my complaints with a barely related example. I've been playing MMOs since just after their infancy. They may have started eating solid foods about the time I started playing and hadn't yet started forming coherant acronyms. In all that time I have only ever once had an MMO company delete my characters and account, and inform me that I would have to buy a new copy of the game and start over because I had spent too much time before attempting to resubscribe. I can still log into Everquest and log in my original character that I made the day I bought the game. I can log into anarchy online and my characters are still there, and I never played that past the free month.
SquareEnix doesn't give a crap about any of you or what you want. Just make sure to pay for the subscription every month because apparently the price of data storage in Japan is only slightly less than an apartment rental. They can't afford to keep that up for free, you free loading non-subscribers.
Should pobably take that to the FFXI forum. That point is pretty outdated and pointless, or I would agree with you.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best. FFXI Character: Satimasu FFXI Server: Valefor FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
This game doesn't have talent trees or pvp. There's no freedom to do anything if you're forced to PvE all the time. The gameplay is also very slow and boring, it's like you have to wait before being able to do anything. I also can't play this game on my 6 year old computer and I'm able to play another game more popular on max settings.
Why is this game on universal servers. Like who wants to talk to foreigners, they hate us anyway. Why are there 18 classes, that's too many and i'm always going to be left out of a group because Pugilists are going to be an overplayed class. I also heard that you can't reallocate points whenever you want and you have to wait for a cooldown. That's just forcing people into one decision... where's the freedom in that?
Someone told me that this game is better played on a controller? WTF, this is a PC game and an MMO, if you can't play using a mouse and keyboard, then it's a game breaker for me. If I wanted to play using a controler, I'd play Halo. They also better have achievements. I also would like to be able to fly. Maybe you can raise chocobos and have them fly. Flying mounts are awesome and If i can't fly, then this game is 3 steps backwards.
Don't even let me get started about not being able to jump and swim.
SE has no idea what it's doing. WORST GAME EVER!
i'm guessing you're either trying to be funny or this is the first time you've come across ff?
You talk of there being no freedom but the skill system is without doubt the most fluid character system i've seen, There aren't 18 classes there are 100's, every player has the opportunity to create a unique class playing the style they choose. I think its amusing that you complain that there are too many classes when less classes would mean more pugilists; the class you want to play.
Improvements are being made to the keyboard/mouse controller system I have no doubt that it will be as functional as the controller system at time of release, the keyboard/mouse is a little behind as this was initially a ps3 only game.
On the contrary SE knows exactly what it is doing, SE have always had a solid final product in mind and it is this single mindedness catering to a particular player as opposed to trying to include the preferences of everyone that will indudably result in a successful game. Jumping and swimming does not make a game, same can be said of gimmicks like achievements and flying mounts.
You talk of there being no freedom but the skill system is without doubt the most fluid character system i've seen, There aren't 18 classes there are 100's, every player has the opportunity to create a unique class playing the style they choose. I think its amusing that you complain that there are too many classes when less classes would mean more pugilists; the class you want to play.
I see this argument a lot, however I really doubt that there will be that many options for class combinations that are actually viable. Most of us have been around "Skill Point" type games, we realize that ultimately some skills are better than others, and sooner or later everyone is a plate wearing halbred using mage. Everyone loves Max-Min, there will be a "right" way to build your character and a "wrong" one and people will be very strict about who they invite I'd wager as well.
I see this argument a lot, however I really doubt that there will be that many options for class combinations that are actually viable. Most of us have been around "Skill Point" type games, we realize that ultimately some skills are better than others, and sooner or later everyone is a plate wearing halbred using mage. Everyone loves Max-Min, there will be a "right" way to build your character and a "wrong" one and people will be very strict about who they invite I'd wager as well.
Its not as much freedom as we wish it would be.
Yep. "100's of unique classes" is never gonna happen.
There'll still be multiple times more freedom than what you usually get though.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I see this argument a lot, however I really doubt that there will be that many options for class combinations that are actually viable. Most of us have been around "Skill Point" type games, we realize that ultimately some skills are better than others, and sooner or later everyone is a plate wearing halbred using mage. Everyone loves Max-Min, there will be a "right" way to build your character and a "wrong" one and people will be very strict about who they invite I'd wager as well.
Its not as much freedom as we wish it would be.
Yep. "100's of unique classes" is never gonna happen.
There'll still be multiple times more freedom than what you usually get though.
Its about the same as equating WoW's talent tree with having "multiple classes!" Look Paladin can Heal, DPS, and Tank, clearly its three classes now. Each of the talent trees have over 51 talent points that you can pick and choose which ones you would like, does that mean each talent you select makes your charcter unique?
If a Pugilist learns Fire 1, is that any different from a Ret paladin specing into instant cast Exorcisim, a spell he would other wise never use? In my opinion no its not, they're pretty much the same.
They just go about customization differently, neither is really a solution to the problem, which is : its hard to make everyone able to play a diverse type of class structure without homongonizing them or making Flavors of the Month. Basicly either every class will bring similar things to the table making them not unique at all really, or everything will be different but there are balance issues and people generally all stick to what ever class or skill set is the most powerful at any given point in time.
Its about the same as equating WoW's talent tree with having "multiple classes!" Look Paladin can Heal, DPS, and Tank, clearly its three classes now. Each of the talent trees have over 51 talent points that you can pick and choose which ones you would like, does that mean each talent you select makes your charcter unique?
If a Pugilist learns Fire 1, is that any different from a Ret paladin specing into instant cast Exorcisim, a spell he would other wise never use? In my opinion no its not, they're pretty much the same.
They just go about customization differently, neither is really a solution to the problem, which is : its hard to make everyone able to play a diverse type of class structure without homongonizing them or making Flavors of the Month. Basicly either every class will bring similar things to the table making them not unique at all really, or everything will be different but there are balance issues and people generally all stick to what ever class or skill set is the most powerful at any given point in time.
The difference is that with XIV every class has as many talents as there are abilities and spells in the game.
I'm not sure how many "best" combinations you can make out of them all, but freedom wise it is still much better than being stuck with a set number of talents. Especially when a new class is introduced, everyone gets probably something out of it. Many skills and spells will most likely have situational uses as well.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I see this argument a lot, however I really doubt that there will be that many options for class combinations that are actually viable. Most of us have been around "Skill Point" type games, we realize that ultimately some skills are better than others, and sooner or later everyone is a plate wearing halbred using mage. Everyone loves Max-Min, there will be a "right" way to build your character and a "wrong" one and people will be very strict about who they invite I'd wager as well.
Its not as much freedom as we wish it would be.
Yep. "100's of unique classes" is never gonna happen.
There'll still be multiple times more freedom than what you usually get though.
Its about the same as equating WoW's talent tree with having "multiple classes!" Look Paladin can Heal, DPS, and Tank, clearly its three classes now. Each of the talent trees have over 51 talent points that you can pick and choose which ones you would like, does that mean each talent you select makes your charcter unique?
If a Pugilist learns Fire 1, is that any different from a Ret paladin specing into instant cast Exorcisim, a spell he would other wise never use? In my opinion no its not, they're pretty much the same.
They just go about customization differently, neither is really a solution to the problem, which is : its hard to make everyone able to play a diverse type of class structure without homongonizing them or making Flavors of the Month. Basicly either every class will bring similar things to the table making them not unique at all really, or everything will be different but there are balance issues and people generally all stick to what ever class or skill set is the most powerful at any given point in time.
The beauty of this sistem is you can build your gameplay the way you like it.I mean, i know some people like to just solo , so they will get the skills for it, while others like "pure" roll classes , such as tank- healer-DD-nuker etc.
Theres no way to compare wow tree sistem to this one, at all. Yes i played wow .In wowyou had 3 talent trees per class,each leaning to 1 kind of gameplay for that class in especific. in here you have 1 class with skill points. and (atm) 7 classes and all their skills to chooce from( or almost), keep in mind theres gonna be a lot more classes as game evolves. so really this have nothin to do with wow tree sistem.
The second part of your post i agree with you 100% and is the thin that worries me MOST, unlike everyother post on this forum ranting about such meaningless thins such as jumping controls etc.Balance and what class builds are gonna be usefull or not is gonna be way to hard to balance, and i hope SE puts 90% of their time into making it work.
The difference is that with XIV every class has as many talents as there are abilities and spells in the game.
I'm not sure how many "best" combinations you can make out of them all, but freedom wise it is still much better than being stuck with a set number of talents. Especially when a new class is introduced, everyone gets probably something out of it. Many skills and spells will most likely have situational uses as well.
The problem remains that if the classes that have these abilities overlap too much then it will seem like everyone is playing the same class if they are in the same roll. All healers feel like the same because the spells they choose to "sub" from other classes are obvious and so they all end up with the same support abilities. Maybe all DPS really need trick attack and sneak attack, hey meditate looks great too, sooner or later everyones using the same sub skills playing a very similar feeling class that has only one unique quality really, which weapon they are holding and what weapon attacks they are using.
WoW has the same problems, they keep making spells not stack and overlap, now blessing of might and wisdom will be the same buff and blessing of kings won't stack with mark of the wild and they're both having the same effect now. More and more balancing that makes the game feel less diverse or unique in its class structure.
I long for an alternative to both of these, I hope 14 will find a way to make it so that there are enough useful sub skills so that the DD's don't all play the same, I hope WoW finds a way to make all the classes unique AND balanced. I hope all games in the future can break this mold that we seem destined to be set in.
Yeah. I've already seen them do -something- about this issue though, but it's still probably in concept stage so I won't reveal it here. Hopefully they can make it work.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The difference is that with XIV every class has as many talents as there are abilities and spells in the game.
I'm not sure how many "best" combinations you can make out of them all, but freedom wise it is still much better than being stuck with a set number of talents. Especially when a new class is introduced, everyone gets probably something out of it. Many skills and spells will most likely have situational uses as well.
The problem remains that if the classes that have these abilities overlap too much then it will seem like everyone is playing the same class if they are in the same roll. All healers feel like the same because the spells they choose to "sub" from other classes are obvious and so they all end up with the same support abilities. Maybe all DPS really need trick attack and sneak attack, hey meditate looks great too, sooner or later everyones using the same sub skills playing a very similar feeling class that has only one unique quality really, which weapon they are holding and what weapon attacks they are using.
WoW has the same problems, they keep making spells not stack and overlap, now blessing of might and wisdom will be the same buff and blessing of kings won't stack with mark of the wild and they're both having the same effect now. More and more balancing that makes the game feel less diverse or unique in its class structure.
I long for an alternative to both of these, I hope 14 will find a way to make it so that there are enough useful sub skills so that the DD's don't all play the same, I hope WoW finds a way to make all the classes unique AND balanced. I hope all games in the future can break this mold that we seem destined to be set in.
I think the main factor that will make the "diference" is positions and movements.Many abilities are affected by position, standing still, or distance from the enemy.
Well so far i can speak a lite bit of what strenghts some classes have , by example lets speak about marauder.
Marauder needs to stand still in order to execute the good skills/power up.So many abilities from other jobs just wont work on marauder apart from the basics ones becouse it needs to be still to be able to shine.
lancer needs to be at some distance,or can hit many mobs in a line.
pugilist makes somekind of hit and run strat, since it jumps back after each atack puting themselfs at distance.
Also the monster will have diferent spots were to hit them on, or so they said. So far i havent seen anythin about this apart from "monster was hit from the left/back/front/right", this makes me feel positioning will have even a bigger impact that we think so far.
Edit ; im not breaking NDA since most of this is on the FFXIV website, just people dont see how important it actually is on the gameplay
edit;I think the way every single individual uses the skills on what monster with what party setup/battle regimen/from what position, is what is gonna make the game diferent, and every player , unique.(to some point of course).Also i belive it will be gameplay --> stats/gear as well ( to somepoint as well of course).
Edit; Please all take a look at the website and examine carefully the explanations bout every class, and take a look at the battle range and roll description about each one, this is whats gonna be diferent about each class mostly, even over the abilities/skills.
Comments
Yeah cause jumping makes a game vanilla.....
I think there is a whole dimension of reason that escapes your perception. I won't bother.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Jumping is just a proxy arguement for "freedom of movement"... just like swimming and sitting.
It's like if the game had you walk everywhere.....
LOL or you're just a fanboy with a terrible arguement?
Cause wanting to jump or swim in an MMO is like wanting a big mac at wendy's? Whhhhha? If by dimension of reason you mean stupid then sure.
(see I'll just come out and call you stupid cause your arguement is just that bad mr fanboy)
It's the same every time... Try to reason with the trolls and you wind up with a migraine.
Visiting these forums is all too akin to masochism.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I think the original poster's mention of the difference between an emphasis on the MMO aspect compared to the RPG aspect is a very valid one. In the past almost-fifteen years I've seen many mmorpg's launch; some were very successful, and others failed miserably. I think one of the key differences between the successes and the failures was where they were placing their emphasis. Many games seem to launch with a generic appeal, eager to draw in anyone and everyone. Then, a month later, everyone is complaining about how they are sorely disappointed because they, in truth, have very little substance. Others seem to maintain a healthy core playerbase years and years after their launch; yet, they never attempted to appeal to the millions of players worldwide. Instead, they launched a game that they envisioned, with what seems to be a "take it or leave it" attitude. I'm not looking to play a game that everyone wants to play. I prefer to wait for those games that actually appeal to me, because, honestly, I don't necessarily want what everyone else wants. An excellent example is PVP. I don't want it. I'm not saying it's not good or not fun, but i prefer games without it. I'm the type of person that likes to play games that require cooperation and teamwork, not griefing or aggression. And yes, I'm aware PVP can involve cooperation and teamwork... but that's an entirely different thread. And, considering my stance on pvp, I'd much prefer to simply remove myself from it and from most arguing about it, and leave it to those who enjoy it. My ideal game does not devote time and resources towards something which I am not interested in. Instead, they are developing, adding, and refining the features that I do enjoy. And if no pvp excludes a specific demographic... well... dare I say, good? And before anyone complains that it's their game too, so they should get what they want... Wrong. It's not our game. It's the developers'. It's no different than someone arguing that there absolutely must be some form of racing because they like racing games. Clearly, it might be a good idea to look elsewhere.
I think jumping and swimming can easily fall into the "appeal to the masses" category. Is it really necessary to be able to jump? Not particularily. In real life, I have the ability, and let me say that I rarely use it. Will I jump a fence, or walk around it? I'll walk around it 99.9% of the time. Honestly, I cannot even remember the last time I really jumped. I certainly don't leap around as I'm walking around.
And swimming? When was the last time I found anything exceptionally interesting in an mmorpg that was underwater? True, WOW had some really beautiful places to explore underwater, but overall, there was very little substance. From a technical perspective, I'd much rather a developer spend all the time and resources on something a lot more productive, such as engaging storylines, quests, even new content. I think the work:reward ratio is not particularily in favor of implimenting something such as swimming. Mind you, I'm not a programmer or game designer, so perhaps it's easier than I would imagine it to be. Even still, I'd rather just skim the useless fluff and give me something of substance. And for anyone that claims it's necessary for immersion... really? I've been immersed in numerous games, movies, novels, etc, that never took place underwater. If it's a feature, great. If not, I'm going to assume the time and resources are being used on something much more rewarding.
This game doesn't have talent trees or pvp. There's no freedom to do anything if you're forced to PvE all the time. The gameplay is also very slow and boring, it's like you have to wait before being able to do anything. I also can't play this game on my 6 year old computer and I'm able to play another game more popular on max settings.
Why is this game on universal servers. Like who wants to talk to foreigners, they hate us anyway. Why are there 18 classes, that's too many and i'm always going to be left out of a group because Pugilists are going to be an overplayed class. I also heard that you can't reallocate points whenever you want and you have to wait for a cooldown. That's just forcing people into one decision... where's the freedom in that?
Someone told me that this game is better played on a controller? WTF, this is a PC game and an MMO, if you can't play using a mouse and keyboard, then it's a game breaker for me. If I wanted to play using a controler, I'd play Halo. They also better have achievements. I also would like to be able to fly. Maybe you can raise chocobos and have them fly. Flying mounts are awesome and If i can't fly, then this game is 3 steps backwards.
Don't even let me get started about not being able to jump and swim.
SE has no idea what it's doing. WORST GAME EVER!
I havent facepalmed so hard in my life.
Sarcasm FTW
QFT
Well this thread had the best intro so far on the subject but either way if you play you play if you dont you don't not too big a deal. One thing I do wonder is if SE has a model where they figure out how much they lose on not having jump in terms of subs vs the developement money to place jumping in at this point? Considering the engine they are using it might literally be impossible to do.
@ OP
the reason I respect SE is basically the reason you stated in your post. While everyone else cares about making an mmo that makes them the most money/subs, SE seems to stick to their guns about the way they like to make their games.
I think I'll sum up my complaints with a barely related example. I've been playing MMOs since just after their infancy. They may have started eating solid foods about the time I started playing and hadn't yet started forming coherant acronyms. In all that time I have only ever once had an MMO company delete my characters and account, and inform me that I would have to buy a new copy of the game and start over because I had spent too much time before attempting to resubscribe. I can still log into Everquest and log in my original character that I made the day I bought the game. I can log into anarchy online and my characters are still there, and I never played that past the free month.
SquareEnix doesn't give a crap about any of you or what you want. Just make sure to pay for the subscription every month because apparently the price of data storage in Japan is only slightly less than an apartment rental. They can't afford to keep that up for free, you free loading non-subscribers.
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I think that SE could patch in a jumping and swimming PvP mini game post launch for XIVShould pobably take that to the FFXI forum. That point is pretty outdated and pointless, or I would agree with you.
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i'm guessing you're either trying to be funny or this is the first time you've come across ff?
You talk of there being no freedom but the skill system is without doubt the most fluid character system i've seen, There aren't 18 classes there are 100's, every player has the opportunity to create a unique class playing the style they choose. I think its amusing that you complain that there are too many classes when less classes would mean more pugilists; the class you want to play.
Improvements are being made to the keyboard/mouse controller system I have no doubt that it will be as functional as the controller system at time of release, the keyboard/mouse is a little behind as this was initially a ps3 only game.
On the contrary SE knows exactly what it is doing, SE have always had a solid final product in mind and it is this single mindedness catering to a particular player as opposed to trying to include the preferences of everyone that will indudably result in a successful game. Jumping and swimming does not make a game, same can be said of gimmicks like achievements and flying mounts.
I see this argument a lot, however I really doubt that there will be that many options for class combinations that are actually viable. Most of us have been around "Skill Point" type games, we realize that ultimately some skills are better than others, and sooner or later everyone is a plate wearing halbred using mage. Everyone loves Max-Min, there will be a "right" way to build your character and a "wrong" one and people will be very strict about who they invite I'd wager as well.
Its not as much freedom as we wish it would be.
Yep. "100's of unique classes" is never gonna happen.
There'll still be multiple times more freedom than what you usually get though.
Its about the same as equating WoW's talent tree with having "multiple classes!" Look Paladin can Heal, DPS, and Tank, clearly its three classes now. Each of the talent trees have over 51 talent points that you can pick and choose which ones you would like, does that mean each talent you select makes your charcter unique?
If a Pugilist learns Fire 1, is that any different from a Ret paladin specing into instant cast Exorcisim, a spell he would other wise never use? In my opinion no its not, they're pretty much the same.
They just go about customization differently, neither is really a solution to the problem, which is : its hard to make everyone able to play a diverse type of class structure without homongonizing them or making Flavors of the Month. Basicly either every class will bring similar things to the table making them not unique at all really, or everything will be different but there are balance issues and people generally all stick to what ever class or skill set is the most powerful at any given point in time.
The difference is that with XIV every class has as many talents as there are abilities and spells in the game.
I'm not sure how many "best" combinations you can make out of them all, but freedom wise it is still much better than being stuck with a set number of talents. Especially when a new class is introduced, everyone gets probably something out of it. Many skills and spells will most likely have situational uses as well.
The beauty of this sistem is you can build your gameplay the way you like it.I mean, i know some people like to just solo , so they will get the skills for it, while others like "pure" roll classes , such as tank- healer-DD-nuker etc.
Theres no way to compare wow tree sistem to this one, at all. Yes i played wow .In wowyou had 3 talent trees per class,each leaning to 1 kind of gameplay for that class in especific. in here you have 1 class with skill points. and (atm) 7 classes and all their skills to chooce from( or almost), keep in mind theres gonna be a lot more classes as game evolves. so really this have nothin to do with wow tree sistem.
The second part of your post i agree with you 100% and is the thin that worries me MOST, unlike everyother post on this forum ranting about such meaningless thins such as jumping controls etc.Balance and what class builds are gonna be usefull or not is gonna be way to hard to balance, and i hope SE puts 90% of their time into making it work.
Well one thing is for sure; they aren't making their job easy with this system. I'm just glad I'm not the developer thinking about class balance.
The problem remains that if the classes that have these abilities overlap too much then it will seem like everyone is playing the same class if they are in the same roll. All healers feel like the same because the spells they choose to "sub" from other classes are obvious and so they all end up with the same support abilities. Maybe all DPS really need trick attack and sneak attack, hey meditate looks great too, sooner or later everyones using the same sub skills playing a very similar feeling class that has only one unique quality really, which weapon they are holding and what weapon attacks they are using.
WoW has the same problems, they keep making spells not stack and overlap, now blessing of might and wisdom will be the same buff and blessing of kings won't stack with mark of the wild and they're both having the same effect now. More and more balancing that makes the game feel less diverse or unique in its class structure.
I long for an alternative to both of these, I hope 14 will find a way to make it so that there are enough useful sub skills so that the DD's don't all play the same, I hope WoW finds a way to make all the classes unique AND balanced. I hope all games in the future can break this mold that we seem destined to be set in.
Yeah. I've already seen them do -something- about this issue though, but it's still probably in concept stage so I won't reveal it here. Hopefully they can make it work.
I think the main factor that will make the "diference" is positions and movements.Many abilities are affected by position, standing still, or distance from the enemy.
Well so far i can speak a lite bit of what strenghts some classes have , by example lets speak about marauder.
Marauder needs to stand still in order to execute the good skills/power up.So many abilities from other jobs just wont work on marauder apart from the basics ones becouse it needs to be still to be able to shine.
lancer needs to be at some distance,or can hit many mobs in a line.
pugilist makes somekind of hit and run strat, since it jumps back after each atack puting themselfs at distance.
Also the monster will have diferent spots were to hit them on, or so they said. So far i havent seen anythin about this apart from "monster was hit from the left/back/front/right", this makes me feel positioning will have even a bigger impact that we think so far.
Edit ; im not breaking NDA since most of this is on the FFXIV website, just people dont see how important it actually is on the gameplay
edit;I think the way every single individual uses the skills on what monster with what party setup/battle regimen/from what position, is what is gonna make the game diferent, and every player , unique.(to some point of course).Also i belive it will be gameplay --> stats/gear as well ( to somepoint as well of course).
Edit; Please all take a look at the website and examine carefully the explanations bout every class, and take a look at the battle range and roll description about each one, this is whats gonna be diferent about each class mostly, even over the abilities/skills.
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/#/gameplay/armourysystem