Lord the amount of blind self righteous douche-baggery against F2P in this poll is astronomical! Really fellas? You have to look at things from another perspective. F2P for eastern mmos and F2P for western mmos are like apples and oranges. It's like when I say let's go to the market in a asian country as compared to a western market.
In the asian country you're going to wonder where is the fancy building with the automatic doors as I take you down a narrow walkway with makeshift stalls on either side. And then you're going to think how can they keep things clean if live animals are butchered next to all the other meat/fish while also being exposed to everyone's coughing/sneezing? Finally you'll be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of flies that cover everything as you try to pick out something that is even remotely like you'd find it back home. Welcome to the eastern version of F2P and cash shops. I know. I've been exposed to F2P eastern-style for a while now and I can pick out terrible systems from pretty decent ones.
But now the trend is hitting the western market and I see a different kind of beast evolving. For a while now the practice of charging more for individual things as oppose to a combo is as traditional business model in the west. Go to any fast food joint, clothing store or even cable/phone company and you'll see if you buy things ala carte you'll pay through the nose. They want to see you get packaged deals because they know they'll get more out of you. And I see their F2P models taking the same approach. Name any western based F2P mmo and you'll see that they all offer a sub price and a ala carte version.
But because some mmo players are notoriously inexperienced when it comes to weighing out cost vs quality, you get a lot of negative feedback when it cost more to play "free". In reality it's just the company telling you to either get the package deal (reg sub) or get railroaded (ala carte F2P). Honestly, you'd think no one here has bought a single from a album before. Buy 13 singles from album and compare it to a person whole bought the whole cd and tell me who got the better deal.........same thing fellas.........same thing.
PS. I would go for any company to make their older mmos F2P as they keep the new releases P2P. It's way better than having to shut them down as they have been doing in the past.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I would have included none in the poll but its no longer a realistic option . This is the way the markets going and I'm think its time to accept that mmo companys have recognised how foolish it is to keep going with an antiquated subscription model .The subscription model only really works for a very small percentage of mmos and certainly only works well for a handful of games that I know of that are over 3-4 years old .
As other people have said there vast differences between the eastern and western models and there are huge differences in the western models . Even games like World of Warcraft which is a subscription based mmo are introducing cash shops for vanity items . Also lets face it a type of black market cash shop has been available in all mmos in the form of gold sellers and level boosters so those with money and inclanation can always find a short cut .
I think most of the oppersition towards the free to play trend will come from those mmo players that have gotten used to the subscription model over a period of a few years and fear that the change will make the games more expensive (which isn't the case with the DDO hyrbid model) . I know of many people that will join me in LOTRO soon from other games I've played and my LOTRO guild also play DDO for one night a week together . All free to play does is offer us more choice and variety .
Lineage 2 would be ideal for me. While I know it would just create more botters and gold farmers, it would make a lot more people come back who used to play the game. If you look at the russian L2, it has over 3.5k people online on each of the 6 servers, that would be amazing if they even had that on 2 servers in the US.
I would have included none in the poll but its no longer a realistic option . This is the way the markets going and I'm think its time to accept that mmo companys have recognised how foolish it is to keep going with an antiquated subscription model .The subscription model only really works for a very small percentage of mmos and certainly only works well for a handful of games that I know of that are over 3-4 years old .
As other people have said there vast differences between the eastern and western models and there are huge differences in the western models . Even games like World of Warcraft which is a subscription based mmo are introducing cash shops for vanity items . Also lets face it a type of black market cash shop has been available in all mmos in the form of gold sellers and level boosters so those with money and inclanation can always find a short cut .
I think most of the oppersition towards the free to play trend will come from those mmo players that have gotten used to the subscription model over a period of a few years and fear that the change will make the games more expensive (which isn't the case with the DDO hyrbid model) . I know of many people that will join me in LOTRO soon from other games I've played and my LOTRO guild also play DDO for one night a week together . All free to play does is offer us more choice and variety .
Subscription model doesn't work when the game is crap, but that should be obvious. Too many companies have rushed to get in on the action and released crap.
The subscription model is far from antiquated, it is becoming the norm for many aspects of society. Cell phones were pay by use but most offer an unlimited plan now, and those plans are becoming more and more widespread. TV is subscription for cable and satellite. Internet was once pay as you go and is now subscription. There is even subscription radio now.
XBox has made a fortune off of XBox live subscriptions, their numbers for that are huge. Playstation realized it was stupid for not doing so and has said it is changing its live service into a subscription method. More MMO games are looking at ways to involve continuing payments from customers.
The real issue with MMOs is too many companies didn't research the market. They released clones of other games but invested 100 mil dollars to make it, thinking the shiny graphics would pull people from the other games. It didn't work so companies lost money. They took the regular game production mentality and tried to apply it to MMOs which was stupid. People stick with MMOs, they don't tend to jump over to something like what they already play because they have invested so much time into their characters. Once MMOs release different MMOs, different genres, different goals, different play styles, then MMOs will see renewed success. The first companies switching major MMOs over to F2P are going to see success. As all the other MMOs try to copy, the F2P market will be flooded with too many of the same again and the same effect will happen all over again. People will have invested a lot of money into the first ones to switch over and won't want to jump ship to the next similar game to throw money at it.
Thinking that all MMOs from now into the future will be f2p is foolish. There will be a big wave of them, and then a lot will die out and we will be in a more normal state of a mix of MMOs in different genres and different payment plans.
There are no F2P games. F2P is not a viable busy model. Actually, it is not even a business model. The term has been thrown around too much without giving any thought to the matter.
Yep the F2P is a misnomer. It's like giving you the chasis of a car but leaving out the wheels unless you pay for them.
I liken it more to going to redeem a free car rental, only when you show up they give you a bicycle. You can't get where you want to go very fast, you can't take much with you, you can't take all of the roads, hell - you might get run over on the way, but you can still get to lot of places on it.
No such thing as free to play, not unless you count shallow experiences with incomplete clones and grindfests. To get any depth out of a so-called F2P title you have to pay, as often as not you'll be paying more than a standard subscription would cost especially if you have alts.
What I'd be much more interested in is other MMO's that I enjoy playing going the same way as LoTRO went at the outset in terms of a Lifetime Membership. I'd sign up for that like a shot. I've had enormous value out of my two lifetime accounts on LoTRO.
XBox has made a fortune off of XBox live subscriptions, their numbers for that are huge. Playstation realized it was stupid for not doing so and has said it is changing its live service into a subscription method.
Not true, actually. Online play is still going to be free. The Playstation Plus service is for bonus services that are not already included in Playstation Network, such as early access to game demos and discounts on Playstation Store items. Fact checking is a good thing, you know.
Lineage 2 would be ideal for me. While I know it would just create more botters and gold farmers, it would make a lot more people come back who used to play the game. If you look at the russian L2, it has over 3.5k people online on each of the 6 servers, that would be amazing if they even had that on 2 servers in the US.
I actually surprised myself with voting for Lineage 2 also. Otherwise, it would have been Vanguard, but there is something about Lineage 2 that I know I would be playing it if it was free. I don't like the idea of playing on unauthorized free servers, and $15 seems a little steep for a pretty empty (in the US) top-heavy game. It's one of my favorite MMOs though.
I would have included none in the poll but its no longer a realistic option . This is the way the markets going and I'm think its time to accept that mmo companys have recognised how foolish it is to keep going with an antiquated subscription model .The subscription model only really works for a very small percentage of mmos and certainly only works well for a handful of games that I know of that are over 3-4 years old .
As other people have said there vast differences between the eastern and western models and there are huge differences in the western models . Even games like World of Warcraft which is a subscription based mmo are introducing cash shops for vanity items . Also lets face it a type of black market cash shop has been available in all mmos in the form of gold sellers and level boosters so those with money and inclanation can always find a short cut .
I think most of the oppersition towards the free to play trend will come from those mmo players that have gotten used to the subscription model over a period of a few years and fear that the change will make the games more expensive (which isn't the case with the DDO hyrbid model) . I know of many people that will join me in LOTRO soon from other games I've played and my LOTRO guild also play DDO for one night a week together . All free to play does is offer us more choice and variety .
Subscription model doesn't work when the game is crap, but that should be obvious. Too many companies have rushed to get in on the action and released crap.
...
The real issue with MMOs is too many companies didn't research the market. They released clones of other games but invested 100 mil dollars to make it, thinking the shiny graphics would pull people from the other games. It didn't work so companies lost money. They took the regular game production mentality and tried to apply it to MMOs which was stupid. People stick with MMOs, they don't tend to jump over to something like what they already play because they have invested so much time into their characters. Once MMOs release different MMOs, different genres, different goals, different play styles, then MMOs will see renewed success. The first companies switching major MMOs over to F2P are going to see success. As all the other MMOs try to copy, the F2P market will be flooded with too many of the same again and the same effect will happen all over again. People will have invested a lot of money into the first ones to switch over and won't want to jump ship to the next similar game to throw money at it.
I agree with OkamRazor, that the current market only a few mmo's can afford to produce both the quality and established mmo that a subscription model would work for. As the middle of the market has fallen out, then the F2P variation is involved more. As older MMO's with P2P go along, then it makes sens for them to switch to F2P.
As you say Snarlingwolf, crap games can't compete with the top end of the market and so P2P subs make no business sense as good graphics does not cover up a bad gameplay experience after a few weeks. I also agree, various models will be adopted and various genres will pop up.
As to whether or not sub model is antiquated, it really depends if the game can keep it's promises to the public. Bioware, Blizzard tick etc anyone else trying to con ppl to pay upfront for the box and rolling subs there is now the technology for low end but improving/large choice emerging mmo's in browsers that are value for money better selection than the middle market mmo's that failed so recently.
There are no F2P games. F2P is not a viable busy model. Actually, it is not even a business model. The term has been thrown around too much without giving any thought to the matter.
Yep the F2P is a misnomer. It's like giving you the chasis of a car but leaving out the wheels unless you pay for them.
I liken it more to going to redeem a free car rental, only when you show up they give you a bicycle. You can't get where you want to go very fast, you can't take much with you, you can't take all of the roads, hell - you might get run over on the way, but you can still get to lot of places on it.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Warhammer. I'd say DAoC, but the community that's there actually wants to be there. Making it free and bringing an influx of people who'd probably complain about the graphics/UI/controls/age of the game is counterproductive.
Vanguard - I managed to get in to CB, even though the client was a nightmare I saw promise, I tried the trial last year, saddened to see that it still suffered from an under optimised game engine and on that reason alone decided not to sub, was a shame i thought it offered a hell of a lot in terms of game play. I voted because I want to see this game finally given a life, I'm not holding my breath though.
I love how two of SOE's games are in the top running.
I think SWG should be free to play because no one plays it anymore honestly and after the shtuff they pulled over on us subscribers way back when, that would be a nice way to get back to us.
I love how two of SOE's games are in the top running.
I think SWG should be free to play because no one plays it anymore honestly and after the shtuff they pulled over on us subscribers way back when, that would be a nice way to get back to us.
Yeah, but you should have to pay for permission to place houses (30 day). The game could use being free at this point, but being able to clutter the world even more shouldn't be. Plus, I hate the TCG and think it should be tied into in-game loot or non-randomized CS buyout, but that's unrelated to the real issue here.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
There are no F2P games. F2P is not a viable busy model. Actually, it is not even a business model. The term has been thrown around too much without giving any thought to the matter.
This semantic argument is nonsense. I can name at least 5 different F2Ps that I played for free.
They're "free to play". They're not "free to experience every tiny bit of gameplay".
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I agree with the people saying none of the above .. you need a none choice on the ballot.
I think F2P games are wishy washy and most of them sac quality gameplay and graphics for the F2P tag. I have played several F2P games and none fo them seem to have the finished, polished, 'top shelf' video game experience for me. With the exception of a few Item Mall games (also i agree this is not exactly f2p is it?) and games like D&D online which is only f2p up to a certain point of progression, the F2P tag is another way of saying "not worth paying to play" ... so no ... I don't think any of these games should actually stoop to the level of a F2P ... NWP2P game.
None? F2P is just another name for item mall. Until games really become F2P and not a trickery I don't care.
they are F2P. i can go download RoM, which is F2P, make an account, log in and play for nothing at all. if i want a mount, a house, a costume, and to be geared for PvP then i have to pay. so they actually ARE free to play.
Think some people got hung up on f2p and what it means to them, forgot what the thread was asking :P Thought it was a pretty simple and harmless poll, and had nothing to do with the f2p model or the current state some games are in and their possibility of going f2p.
So for no reason other than a fun option i'd like to have at any given time, AOC.
I would give one of the hairs on my left leg for DAOC to be free to play.
I think they don't want to do that though because then everyone would play it and never leave, due to how amazingly awesome it is.
Iwould give one of the hairs on my left leg for just about anything I suppose ... i'll give one to you if you want... just send me a self addressed stamped envelope....
Comments
As many as possible.
One more F2P game is another game that I don't have to justify subbing to dabble a bit.
Lord the amount of blind self righteous douche-baggery against F2P in this poll is astronomical! Really fellas? You have to look at things from another perspective. F2P for eastern mmos and F2P for western mmos are like apples and oranges. It's like when I say let's go to the market in a asian country as compared to a western market.
In the asian country you're going to wonder where is the fancy building with the automatic doors as I take you down a narrow walkway with makeshift stalls on either side. And then you're going to think how can they keep things clean if live animals are butchered next to all the other meat/fish while also being exposed to everyone's coughing/sneezing? Finally you'll be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of flies that cover everything as you try to pick out something that is even remotely like you'd find it back home. Welcome to the eastern version of F2P and cash shops. I know. I've been exposed to F2P eastern-style for a while now and I can pick out terrible systems from pretty decent ones.
But now the trend is hitting the western market and I see a different kind of beast evolving. For a while now the practice of charging more for individual things as oppose to a combo is as traditional business model in the west. Go to any fast food joint, clothing store or even cable/phone company and you'll see if you buy things ala carte you'll pay through the nose. They want to see you get packaged deals because they know they'll get more out of you. And I see their F2P models taking the same approach. Name any western based F2P mmo and you'll see that they all offer a sub price and a ala carte version.
But because some mmo players are notoriously inexperienced when it comes to weighing out cost vs quality, you get a lot of negative feedback when it cost more to play "free". In reality it's just the company telling you to either get the package deal (reg sub) or get railroaded (ala carte F2P). Honestly, you'd think no one here has bought a single from a album before. Buy 13 singles from album and compare it to a person whole bought the whole cd and tell me who got the better deal.........same thing fellas.........same thing.
PS. I would go for any company to make their older mmos F2P as they keep the new releases P2P. It's way better than having to shut them down as they have been doing in the past.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I would have included none in the poll but its no longer a realistic option . This is the way the markets going and I'm think its time to accept that mmo companys have recognised how foolish it is to keep going with an antiquated subscription model .The subscription model only really works for a very small percentage of mmos and certainly only works well for a handful of games that I know of that are over 3-4 years old .
As other people have said there vast differences between the eastern and western models and there are huge differences in the western models . Even games like World of Warcraft which is a subscription based mmo are introducing cash shops for vanity items . Also lets face it a type of black market cash shop has been available in all mmos in the form of gold sellers and level boosters so those with money and inclanation can always find a short cut .
I think most of the oppersition towards the free to play trend will come from those mmo players that have gotten used to the subscription model over a period of a few years and fear that the change will make the games more expensive (which isn't the case with the DDO hyrbid model) . I know of many people that will join me in LOTRO soon from other games I've played and my LOTRO guild also play DDO for one night a week together . All free to play does is offer us more choice and variety .
Lineage 2 would be ideal for me. While I know it would just create more botters and gold farmers, it would make a lot more people come back who used to play the game. If you look at the russian L2, it has over 3.5k people online on each of the 6 servers, that would be amazing if they even had that on 2 servers in the US.
Subscription model doesn't work when the game is crap, but that should be obvious. Too many companies have rushed to get in on the action and released crap.
The subscription model is far from antiquated, it is becoming the norm for many aspects of society. Cell phones were pay by use but most offer an unlimited plan now, and those plans are becoming more and more widespread. TV is subscription for cable and satellite. Internet was once pay as you go and is now subscription. There is even subscription radio now.
XBox has made a fortune off of XBox live subscriptions, their numbers for that are huge. Playstation realized it was stupid for not doing so and has said it is changing its live service into a subscription method. More MMO games are looking at ways to involve continuing payments from customers.
The real issue with MMOs is too many companies didn't research the market. They released clones of other games but invested 100 mil dollars to make it, thinking the shiny graphics would pull people from the other games. It didn't work so companies lost money. They took the regular game production mentality and tried to apply it to MMOs which was stupid. People stick with MMOs, they don't tend to jump over to something like what they already play because they have invested so much time into their characters. Once MMOs release different MMOs, different genres, different goals, different play styles, then MMOs will see renewed success. The first companies switching major MMOs over to F2P are going to see success. As all the other MMOs try to copy, the F2P market will be flooded with too many of the same again and the same effect will happen all over again. People will have invested a lot of money into the first ones to switch over and won't want to jump ship to the next similar game to throw money at it.
Thinking that all MMOs from now into the future will be f2p is foolish. There will be a big wave of them, and then a lot will die out and we will be in a more normal state of a mix of MMOs in different genres and different payment plans.
I liken it more to going to redeem a free car rental, only when you show up they give you a bicycle. You can't get where you want to go very fast, you can't take much with you, you can't take all of the roads, hell - you might get run over on the way, but you can still get to lot of places on it.
No such thing as free to play, not unless you count shallow experiences with incomplete clones and grindfests. To get any depth out of a so-called F2P title you have to pay, as often as not you'll be paying more than a standard subscription would cost especially if you have alts.
What I'd be much more interested in is other MMO's that I enjoy playing going the same way as LoTRO went at the outset in terms of a Lifetime Membership. I'd sign up for that like a shot. I've had enormous value out of my two lifetime accounts on LoTRO.
Other: Pet Wars: The Old Republic
Not true, actually. Online play is still going to be free. The Playstation Plus service is for bonus services that are not already included in Playstation Network, such as early access to game demos and discounts on Playstation Store items. Fact checking is a good thing, you know.
I actually surprised myself with voting for Lineage 2 also. Otherwise, it would have been Vanguard, but there is something about Lineage 2 that I know I would be playing it if it was free. I don't like the idea of playing on unauthorized free servers, and $15 seems a little steep for a pretty empty (in the US) top-heavy game. It's one of my favorite MMOs though.
I agree with OkamRazor, that the current market only a few mmo's can afford to produce both the quality and established mmo that a subscription model would work for. As the middle of the market has fallen out, then the F2P variation is involved more. As older MMO's with P2P go along, then it makes sens for them to switch to F2P.
As you say Snarlingwolf, crap games can't compete with the top end of the market and so P2P subs make no business sense as good graphics does not cover up a bad gameplay experience after a few weeks. I also agree, various models will be adopted and various genres will pop up.
As to whether or not sub model is antiquated, it really depends if the game can keep it's promises to the public. Bioware, Blizzard tick etc anyone else trying to con ppl to pay upfront for the box and rolling subs there is now the technology for low end but improving/large choice emerging mmo's in browsers that are value for money better selection than the middle market mmo's that failed so recently.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
g8 analogy!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I put OTHER: NONE.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Warhammer. I'd say DAoC, but the community that's there actually wants to be there. Making it free and bringing an influx of people who'd probably complain about the graphics/UI/controls/age of the game is counterproductive.
Vanguard - I managed to get in to CB, even though the client was a nightmare I saw promise, I tried the trial last year, saddened to see that it still suffered from an under optimised game engine and on that reason alone decided not to sub, was a shame i thought it offered a hell of a lot in terms of game play. I voted because I want to see this game finally given a life, I'm not holding my breath though.
I love how two of SOE's games are in the top running.
I think SWG should be free to play because no one plays it anymore honestly and after the shtuff they pulled over on us subscribers way back when, that would be a nice way to get back to us.
Yeah, but you should have to pay for permission to place houses (30 day). The game could use being free at this point, but being able to clutter the world even more shouldn't be. Plus, I hate the TCG and think it should be tied into in-game loot or non-randomized CS buyout, but that's unrelated to the real issue here.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
This semantic argument is nonsense. I can name at least 5 different F2Ps that I played for free.
They're "free to play". They're not "free to experience every tiny bit of gameplay".
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I agree with the people saying none of the above .. you need a none choice on the ballot.
I think F2P games are wishy washy and most of them sac quality gameplay and graphics for the F2P tag. I have played several F2P games and none fo them seem to have the finished, polished, 'top shelf' video game experience for me. With the exception of a few Item Mall games (also i agree this is not exactly f2p is it?) and games like D&D online which is only f2p up to a certain point of progression, the F2P tag is another way of saying "not worth paying to play" ... so no ... I don't think any of these games should actually stoop to the level of a F2P ... NWP2P game.
Sounds harsh but thats how i feel.
they are F2P. i can go download RoM, which is F2P, make an account, log in and play for nothing at all. if i want a mount, a house, a costume, and to be geared for PvP then i have to pay. so they actually ARE free to play.
Think some people got hung up on f2p and what it means to them, forgot what the thread was asking :P Thought it was a pretty simple and harmless poll, and had nothing to do with the f2p model or the current state some games are in and their possibility of going f2p.
So for no reason other than a fun option i'd like to have at any given time, AOC.
WoW should be f2p
id like to see any of the three big super hero titles as f2p; either coh/cox, champions online, or dcu online
I would give one of the hairs on my left leg for DAOC to be free to play.
I think they don't want to do that though because then everyone would play it and never leave, due to how amazingly awesome it is.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
Iwould give one of the hairs on my left leg for just about anything I suppose ... i'll give one to you if you want... just send me a self addressed stamped envelope....