why so many non-DF players continue debating DF?

trashburnin

I just notice that a lot of non-DF players continue to comment on this game and follow it and discuss it.

Why is that exactly?

I like DF core mechanics the way it is, always have, been subbed and playing constantly from 3 weeks after release.  I'm pretty sure DF is for people like me. why should DF change to be like some game they like when what they want is what WoW has?  Box version not even on shelves so its pretty stupid to even say that the game can't attract enough players with its harsh ruleset, game is doing fine and AV continues to grow.

I think it may be that DF is such a good game that even people who don't like a lot of its core mechanics will continue to play it for lack of a better game perhaps. They continually complain about how DF needs to change into some game they like or can handle.  They say DF isn't for everyone so why are these people still here?

Garvon3

Because pre release it was the center of a LOT of controversy in terms of people on this forum. There was a massive group of trolls who kept spamming that the game was vaporware and inventing conspiracy theories about it. Any thread discussing Darkfall was instantly derailed by these trolls swearing the game would never release and that the promised features were not possible. 

 

When the game went into beta, all of these people shut up for about a month before changing their tune saying "there've been no leaks or anything, this game clearly isn't in beta or I would have seen a screenshot", and continued their vapor trolling. 

 

Then the game released not too many months later and the bitter angry trolls just continue to this day to change their tune to whatever they can complain about without actually playing the game.   

Borluc

I bought the game once and played from release for some time.  The reason that I follow the forums (I don't really post all that much) is because I think that DF could have been a smash hit and may still become popular again.  Saying that DF is growing constantly is not really true.  There has never been a population as big as when it release and the following months afterwards.  The reason for this is there are fundamental design choices that many people think were screwed.  Also, DF was sold originally to all the fans as a sandbox game and its really a warfare/political game.  In any case, I don't constantly bash DF or hate on it, but I, probably like many others, wouldn't mind seeing it turn out the way we like.  The devs don't listen to the forums so rest assured that any changes that they make to DF will be for their own reasons.  No reason to fear negative posts.

trashburnin

Originally posted by Garvon3

Because pre release it was the center of a LOT of controversy in terms of people on this forum. There was a massive group of trolls who kept spamming that the game was vaporware and inventing conspiracy theories about it. Any thread discussing Darkfall was instantly derailed by these trolls swearing the game would never release and that the promised features were not possible. 

 

When the game went into beta, all of these people shut up for about a month before changing their tune saying "there've been no leaks or anything, this game clearly isn't in beta or I would have seen a screenshot", and continued their vapor trolling. 

 

Then the game released not too many months later and the bitter angry trolls just continue to this day to change their tune to whatever they can complain about without actually playing the game.   

makes sense.

 

to the comment about DF having a lot of initial subs.

I know DF had a lot of initial subs but people seem to forget that DF breaks out of the mold of what has been copied and cloned and a lot of people took a vacation from WoW to experience that and a lot of people went back to WoW when they realised that DF is not for them for one reason or another.  It is a niche game targeting a niche audience and it is expected that a lot of people couldn't handle it or didn't like it, its a game made by gamers not people who cater to the lowest common denominator in order to get more subs, and that is why it is the only really challenging mmorpg in existence.  Its a lot easier to blame the game than to look at yourself and realise ones own deficiencies and what one could have done differently.

 

I coudln't get any of my RL friends to continue to play it but at least they were willing to admit the game is too fast paced or harsh for them rather than blame the mechanics.  Doesn't mean game needs to change, just means DF isn't necesarily for everyone.

I just wish I could see the look on all those vaportrolls and all those doomsayers a couple years from now.

Borluc

Originally posted by trashburnin

makes sense.

 

to the comment about DF having a lot of initial subs.

I know DF had a lot of initial subs but people seem to forget that DF breaks out of the mold of what has been copied and cloned and a lot of people took a vacation from WoW to experience that and a lot of people went back to WoW when they realised that DF is not for them for one reason or another.  It is a niche game targeting a niche audience and it is expected that a lot of people couldn't handle it or didn't like it, its a game made by gamers not people who cater to the lowest common denominator in order to get more subs, and that is why it is the only really challenging mmorpg in existence.  Its a lot easier to blame the game than to look at yourself and realise ones own deficiencies and what one could have done differently.

 

I coudln't get any of my RL friends to continue to play it but at least they were willing to admit the game is too fast paced or harsh for them rather than blame the mechanics.  Doesn't mean game needs to change, just means DF isn't necesarily for everyone.

 I think its ridiculous that people macro'ed 24/7 to raise impossible stats.   Others cheated non stop to get huge wealth and win in pvp.  This went on unchecked.  The melee combat is boring and was, for a long time, completely trumped by archery and magic.  The ability to raise everything to max made it so that you needed everything to compete with another person.  This meant a massive grind bigger than most mmos. 

Trust me though, I had hella fun at release when people actually stuck a bit to their own race and raided each other.  It was the people who played 2-6 hours a day that made DF fun and losing them due to a poor release with shitty mechanics was the real nail in the coffin for many.   ARAC clans were a real bore(and still are).   The reasons why this throws off balance are clear so I'll not reiterate it again.

I guess it was all just my real life responsibilities and enjoyment of non-gaming activities that made me unworthy of such a wonderful product.

trashburnin

Originally posted by Borluc

Originally posted by trashburnin

makes sense.

 

to the comment about DF having a lot of initial subs.

I know DF had a lot of initial subs but people seem to forget that DF breaks out of the mold of what has been copied and cloned and a lot of people took a vacation from WoW to experience that and a lot of people went back to WoW when they realised that DF is not for them for one reason or another.  It is a niche game targeting a niche audience and it is expected that a lot of people couldn't handle it or didn't like it, its a game made by gamers not people who cater to the lowest common denominator in order to get more subs, and that is why it is the only really challenging mmorpg in existence.  Its a lot easier to blame the game than to look at yourself and realise ones own deficiencies and what one could have done differently.

 

I coudln't get any of my RL friends to continue to play it but at least they were willing to admit the game is too fast paced or harsh for them rather than blame the mechanics.  Doesn't mean game needs to change, just means DF isn't necesarily for everyone.

 I think its ridiculous that people macro'ed 24/7 to raise impossible stats.   Others cheated non stop to get huge wealth and win in pvp.  This went on unchecked.  The melee combat is boring and was, for a long time, completely trumped by archery and magic.  The ability to raise everything to max made it so that you needed everything to compete with another person.  This meant a massive grind bigger than most mmos. 

Trust me though, I had hella fun at release when people actually stuck a bit to their own race and raided each other.  It was the people who played 2-6 hours a day that made DF fun and losing them due to a poor release with shitty mechanics was the real nail in the coffin for many.   ARAC clans were a real bore(and still are).   The reasons why this throws off balance are clear so I'll not reiterate it again.

I guess it was all just my real life responsibilities and enjoyment of non-gaming activities that made me unworthy of such a wonderful product.

i think character differences are a lot less than people make them out to be.  I know lack of diversity may be boring but I for one am glad that everyone has access to all the same abilities b/c it makes things much more balanced than they are in other pvp mmorpg where you have classes.  .   I feel bad that people with not a lot of free time feel they are restricted from enjoying DF, my brother is one of them. people need to get over the idea that you have to grind for months to enjoy pvp.  If you come into game w/ that idea that you have to be the same as the guy thats grinded for a year before you can pvp you are going to have a poor time. 

Not saying that is what happened in your case, I'll make no assumptions.

Ethian

Originally posted by trashburnin

I just notice that a lot of non-DF players continue to comment on this game and follow it and discuss it.

Why is that exactly?

I like DF core mechanics the way it is, always have, been subbed and playing constantly from 3 weeks after release.  I'm pretty sure DF is for people like me. why should DF change to be like some game they like when what they want is what WoW has?  Box version not even on shelves so its pretty stupid to even say that the game can't attract enough players with its harsh ruleset, game is doing fine and AV continues to grow.

I think it may be that DF is such a good game that even people who don't like a lot of its core mechanics will continue to play it for lack of a better game perhaps. They continually complain about how DF needs to change into some game they like or can handle.  They say DF isn't for everyone so why are these people still here?

 Their still here because DFO is most unique MMO out there right now. Theres no other like it. Coming here and complaining I guess makes them feel better about leaving but we all know by early next year everyone who left will left will be back. The world of Agon is only just beginning to get better.

Sid_Vicious

Originally posted by trashburnin

I just notice that a lot of non-DF players continue to comment on this game and follow it and discuss it.

Why is that exactly?

I like DF core mechanics the way it is, always have, been subbed and playing constantly from 3 weeks after release.  I'm pretty sure DF is for people like me. why should DF change to be like some game they like when what they want is what WoW has?  Box version not even on shelves so its pretty stupid to even say that the game can't attract enough players with its harsh ruleset, game is doing fine and AV continues to grow.

I think it may be that DF is such a good game that even people who don't like a lot of its core mechanics will continue to play it for lack of a better game perhaps. They continually complain about how DF needs to change into some game they like or can handle.  They say DF isn't for everyone so why are these people still here?

Great post!

 

I don't understand how people would not want to play this . .. maybe if they just grouped with me I could make it fun . .. seriously how could you not like this more than other games?

 

You have so much more control over your character and everytime that you play is unpreditable.. This game does so much more than any game out there. Definitely attracts that niche because nothing else comes close and if you enjoy the realistic/emmersive twich-based combat than you are stuck with it until it dies but you will have a hell of a lot of fun!

 

Nothing else compares to the combat in this game. It rules all games.

 

PVE and PVP

 

The combat here is the funnest.

 

I feel like I an running from NPC to NPC and having my hand held too much in other games. It is not like the thrill in this one at all.

Annwyn

Originally posted by trashburnin

I just notice that a lot of non-DF players continue to comment on this game and follow it and discuss it.

Why is that exactly?

I like DF core mechanics the way it is, always have, been subbed and playing constantly from 3 weeks after release.  I'm pretty sure DF is for people like me. why should DF change to be like some game they like when what they want is what WoW has?  Box version not even on shelves so its pretty stupid to even say that the game can't attract enough players with its harsh ruleset, game is doing fine and AV continues to grow.

I think it may be that DF is such a good game that even people who don't like a lot of its core mechanics will continue to play it for lack of a better game perhaps. They continually complain about how DF needs to change into some game they like or can handle.  They say DF isn't for everyone so why are these people still here?

You are happy with the way things are. Many players (like me), would beg to disagree.

A lot of us have fond memories of the days of Hyperion, where servers actually had A LOT of people and sieges of 100vs100 (and according to AV, a siege of 500 vs 500 once, though wether these are actual numbers or not....it's still a lot) were common thing. And until players began to macro their way up, PvP was a lot of fun.

 

The current state of the game has changed. The population is far too low, sieges consists of allying as many bored clans looking for PvP as much as people, yet they still have issues fielding 50is players on the battleground. Because the gap between those who macro'ed their way up/Veterans and new players is so large, excessive hours of grinding have become necessary to PvP.

 

These players who have left (with the exception of WoW players), stopped playing because DarkFall lacked the tools and sand it had promised. Macro'ing (Blood walls, AFK swimming, etc) became a very important part of DarkFall, where you could literally enter a Clan City and see 20 Alt Characters standing still while players would AFK Macro their melee up. Players badly exploited mobs, allowing them to gain a very large amount of gold, with no risk. And all this was left unpunished, until AV started "banning" these activities, almost a year later, though they refused to fix things with the players who macro'd their way up.  Which created an even bigger gap, as new players now must not only fight working mob AI, but are also not allowed to AFK macro. This made the grind seem even worse. 

 

Just look up ForumFall, these types of comments comes back over and over again.

KaoRyx

Trolls know no bounds. If there is something to berate, they will do so.

Additionally, I believe there is a subset of the troll population who at one point were following DF very closely. However, the twists and turns that a large community of the player base went through mere days before release turned a lot of potential fans against the game. Lets face it, those of us who were there had a pretty tough time getting our hands on the game at launch. Unable to enter the store, forums crashing, getting to the "buy now" button and crashing. And only having a 1 hour window to even attempt to purchase the game? When you make enemies that early in your release you're bound to create a community who hates your product and will stop at nothing to try and ruin the experience with complete anonymity for those who enjoy it. It is the nature of John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.

Annwyn

Originally posted by KaoRyx

Trolls know no bounds. If there is something to berate, they will do so.

Additionally, I believe there is a subset of the troll population who at one point were following DF very closely. However, the twists and turns that a large community of the player base went through mere days before release turned a lot of potential fans against the game. Lets face it, those of us who were there had a pretty tough time getting our hands on the game at launch. Unable to enter the store, forums crashing, getting to the "buy now" button and crashing. And only having a 1 hour window to even attempt to purchase the game? When you make enemies that early in your release you're bound to create a community who hates your product and will stop at nothing to try and ruin the experience with complete anonymity for those who enjoy it. It is the nature of John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.

F5, F5, F5, F5,F5,F5,F5,F5,F5,F5,F5,F5,F5,F5,F5

 

I remember how chaotic it was to get your hand on a damn limited copy of DarkFall at launch. God that was awfull but dammit I was happy when I finally got it :P

eburn

It's been a truly interesting game with a lot of mechanics that threaten the quo's sensiblity.

Part of the fuckwad theory I'm sure tho' I can't say I'm familiar.

I always like hearing about it, but haven't been sold. But since there's a 14 day trial now I may as well give it a go.