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SV creates "secret" forum for selected guildleaders to provide direct feedback to developers
Slapshot1188
Member LegendaryPosts: 17,724
Thread discussing on official forums can be found here: http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/51296-mo-goes-even-more-guild-based.html
In short.. SV has set up a private forum where guildleaders can raise issues and discussions with the developers where the general player population cannot read nor reply. Good idea? Bad idea? Won't contentious topics just be anonymously cut and pasted for people to read anyway? What is really gained by creating an elite group called the "Council of Patriarchs" as opposed to just publicly polling their subscriber base? If a guild of 10 players get 2 seats and a guild of 50 get 2 seats.. is that not going to provide a distorted level of feedback?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
Imao
Check EvE-on it got aswell council where the community ( few elected people by community) can discuss with devs. Its not completly same but in the same direction.
So devs can only profite through this.
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
I very highly doubt that the devs would take what a few select players say as the be all and end all of the community's views. They'll likely see what the guild leaders have in mind, which will most likely be an idea agreed upon by the majority of members in that guild, and take it under consideration. I'm sure if an idea makes it far enough that it's strongly considered for the game, the devs will announce it, either on the forums or through irc, and see what the rest of the community thinks about it.
Sounds like democracy to me ... and last I looked that was an ok system.
Really? It sounds like the opposite honestly. Selected people from "established" guilds are allowed into a secret place to discuss policy and direction of the game. Just imagine if Congress passed laws in private and you never saw any debate or even knew how your "representatives" voted? I'm not sure what that would be called but I don't think it's democracy...
That's not even the point though... the point is that any contentious issues will likely be leaked anyhow and the perception that an elite group of people are determining the future of the game behind closed doors is a horrible one to have. At least IMHO. Also.. by just giving any invited guilds 2 votes regardless of size.. the feedback will be distorted. But hey.. it's their show, maybe it will work out. I just don't see it...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Sounds like a Republic to me.
Regardless, if they decide to do it in a private manner, it will likely cause more contention and issues than it resolves. You will have these guild leaders that feel better and more powerful than the rest of the playerbase pushing thier own and thier guilds agendas to the Devs.
What about those large number of non-guilded players or smaller "friend" guilds? This is not good or bad. All it does is tell me the Devs want to obtain player feedback and this is the method they are choosing.
Really how good or bad it is will be determined what kind of influence the Devs let them have and what the Devs do with the information. Hate on SV if you want for what they are doing, but reaching out to the players proved it can turn a game around into something good. Look at how Global Agenda 180ed on its direction due to the player surveys and how much more people are liking it.
For normal players; The Suggestions forum and Feedback forum still get their points across when the devs read them. (They reply too a lot of the time)
The new secret section for established Guild leaders is to have condensed feedback from elected people who will be discussing what they feel needs to be changed with their Clan. So it's not what the Guild Leaders want to see specifically it's what their guild would like to see out of the game but passed along via two people.
This is a great way to get constructive feedback on the game from a large proportion of the player base. They've always acted on what the community has said, lets hope this is a way to make it more clear what we want from MO.
I would have to respectfully disagree and point you to the thread I linked which is now up to 108 posts (and counting) debating the issue. All 108 posts are from current subscribers.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You do realize that just about every MMO out there has a PRIVATE (not "secret") test forum/server where they invite people to participate in a kind of ongoing beta testing/feedback cycle right? This isn't some think that MO came up with to stick it to the players, it's a common, and logical, part of MMOs.
Interesting.
Wow, that's a disingenuous and simplistic evaluation of that one thread.
Of those 108 posts you've identified, how many are pro, and how many are against?
There's a lot of pot-stirring going on in that thread. How many individual opinions does it reflect?
Archaegeo has 14 of those 108 posts. Daveraa has 12 of them.
That's 2 people, accounting for 24% of the total post count.
In fact, there are really only a handful people actively engaged in that conversation, which is hardly a groundswell of opinion from the entire playerbase.
Regarding the original post, you didn't give the background for the entire issue, so I will provide it here.
This is the original SV announcement from today:
Two interesting announcements for you guys:
~Council of Patriarchs~
As an "extension" to the feedback forum we created a section called "The Council of Patriarchs" on the forums.
Guilds can appoint/elect two representatives that will gain access to this section. In it the representatives will have a forum to give concentrated feedback/ideas/suggestions/etc from their guild's members and it gives us at Star Vault the possibility to quickly check back with the larger and especially organised part of the community.
The guild leaders can send the forum names of their two representatives to me via PM and I will then grant access. Please keep in mind that only "established" guilds will be able to send in representatives. 1-man-guilds, etc will not be granted access.
~House of Commons~
We also want to give all non-guilded players a better possibility to raise their points/questions with us directly.
We will be having moderated chat sessions for the entire community on our IRC network Stratics on a regular basis now. These so called "House of Commons Chats" are organized and moderated by Stratics and on average there should be quite a few devs present to answer your questions.
The first HoC-chat will happen on Thursday, Aug. 12th at 8pm GMT+2 and we plan to hold a HoC every 2nd Thursday of each month. Further information about this will be posted shortly before the chat starts.
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/51284-council-patriarchs-house-commons-chat.html#post987728
Oddly enough, the House of Commons portion of the announcement was conveniently ignored in the original post here.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Perhaps because one was an open IRC chat (heavilly moderated as industry standard) where anyone... probably even non-subscribers could go and the one discussed in this thread was a private forum where "established" guilds would be invited to send two representatives to closed room discussions about game issues without being viewed by other players...
In short.. one announced a monthly IRC chat and one announced a private forum for elite representatives of "established" guilds to have a direct line to discuss game issues with developers.
The only similarlity to them is that they were announced in the same message. So let's keep this discussion on topic talking about the "Council of Patriarchs" closed forum.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think it's an okay idea. It gets together the people who lead large groups of people in game, gets their ideas on whats going on in the game, and what needs to be done, it doesn't create a bunch of arguments of "NERF THIS, NERF THAT".
Focus groups never work when the feedback is extremely general. I think it would have been a good idea if they made the " private " forum section with the intent to focus on guild bugs, exploits, and future features.
I'm not sure people really understand what the forum section is.
Unreadable to the rest of the community.
The patriach thing is great. Why would they need it to be unreadable to the remainder of the community though?
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/50967-how-do-you-play-solo-poll.html 81% are playing solo
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/50877-wealth-poll.html Half are guilded
What is the need for a SECRET section?
If it was secret you and everyone else would not know about it. That is the essence of a secret. A better term is private forum. Privacy allows one to let all the warts hang out and be discussed in an open manner without a bunch of things being taken out of context or used against you.
We get it. You're upset you aren't included. The fact remains that they are taking input from established and knowledgeable players to help create a better game. By making the forum private, they greatly reduce the amount of noise, rants and unconstructive garbage they would otherwise have to sift through. MMO developers have been doing this for as long as there have been MMOs.
Instead of looking at it as if someone is getting supa sekrit inside info, consider that these guild leaders and their team mates are doing voluntary extra work to make the game better for YOU.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Because few game companies broadcast their every plan, thought, or concept regularly on an open forum, to be stolen, misconstrued, or taken out of context.
Because, if there is to be any level of comfort or honesty from players and devs alike in having an effective dialogue about the game, it has to be shielded from the screaming, kneejerk mob that will blow anything and everything out of proportion (look at this thread, and the thread referenced, as proof).
Because anything that a dev says on a forum becomes a "promise" to someone, suitable for months and months of misguided angst from that someone if it doesn't come true. Devs would have to be so guarded in what they say, their participation would be rendered useless.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Pardon me, but they currently have open discussions on the already existing suggestion forum.
Nothing you said is a reason for the forum to be closed. It's no dif. then the suggestion forum that exists, except that it's only select players that can make suggestion.
Edit: Someone name another MMO that has a forum that a select few can make suggestions, and the remainder of the paying community isn't able to read.
Yeah, it must be SV creating an Illuminati group for their game.
Sounds to me like they will be able to have more focused discussions about the game. Topics will likely stay on topic. Unlike the feedback you get from the unwashed masses.
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In the current suggestion forum, each post has to be approved by a mod before it can be posted, and no one can post in the thread but the OP.
What you wrote doesn't apply.
It does apply, because of the purpose of the forum.
"Guilds can appoint/elect two representatives that will gain access to this section. In it the representatives will have a forum to give concentrated feedback/ideas/suggestions/etc from their guild's members and it gives us at Star Vault the possibility to quickly check back with the larger and especially organised part of the community."
From the way I understand it, there will likely be more player/dev interaction on this board. That increased interaction would most likely be stunted (or downright eliminated) without any kind of privacy, for the reasons many of us have mentioned.
In short, it's purpose is NOT exactly the same as the Feedback or Suggestion forums. In order for it to be effective, it'll need to be run differently, in my opinion.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
I have to agree to a certain extent with the OP.
My problem with it isnt that there is a secret forum, but that entrance is based on being a guild leader. Mo is already too pvp/guild focused and if they are going to this extent to see what guild leaders and only guild leaders want then this shows where the game is heading.
Part of the reason I cancelled my sub was because of this trend. It wasnt the bugs, it was the almost complete focus on pvp and guild vs guild. They have the framework for a good sandbox but they are only focusing on adding and balancing pvp, by the time they add all of the non pvp stuff, the people who enjoy that part of a sandbox will be gone.
Also the EVE CSM is much different than this new private forum, anyone can tun for the CSM, participation as a guild leader si not a requirement.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
Terrible idea, considering the high possibility that only fanbois will be selected. I am rather sure about Myrm getting in constructive players who are conserned about combat being good, but as for the rest.. duno really.
I thnk it's a foolish move even though I see nothing wrong with it. I understand why some would be concerned and find that some thing that should have be easily anticipated. In the end, all tthat really matters is what they actually do with the game in terms of issues, bugs, mechanics, game play, etc. That said, there do not appear to be a healthy number of subscribers and doing things like this that can alienate others is a mistake.
Maerlyn makes a statement in that thread that is flat out wrong.
"Maerlyn wrote:
Back in the days of UO there was none to very little internet gaming. The concept of guilds grew in the decade(s) to come."
The number of players playing online grew of course, but early UO was very guild-centric. I'm not saying there weren't tons of non-guilded players; there were, but guilds did not evolve over time as Maerlyn says, no more so than the overall population subscribing to games grew.. In fact, the guild vs guild feature of UO was one of the best and most fleshed out aspects of the game. I played UO from the day it was released and my memory on this is clear. There were tons of guilds and guild wars was extremely popular. I think he is being defensive and confusing the growth of online numbers with number of guilds in context of number of players.
Good luck. -CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
This .
Now for my post: democracy, republic, whatever ... you're smart enough to know what I ment.
Established guilds as in being groups of enough people to merrit a voice to the devs. This means that not every 1 man guilded Joe has a voice to.
The guildleaders act as a filter for the voices of their members, so only the real important issues get to the devs.
Again, sounds like an ok system to me.
And for the secrecy/privacy, I don't know what's up with that, but frankly I don't think that's important ... since the hot info will find it's way back to the players anyway.