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You say that MMO needs to die for awhile? I say MMO has been dead.
luckypotato
Member Posts: 251
Proof: Past 5 years.
Discuss:
1.MMO's you wish came out as expected
2. What you hope is in the MMO future (features, gameplay, ect)
3. Favorite features of Past MMO's
Comments
1. HELLGATE LONDON.... had such potential...... testing what content they had ready to be released was amazing but yet again they lacked the funds to put the content out to the public.
2. RIFT PLANES OF TELARA is very promising...great game
Even though I feel sorry for everyone who followed these games in development including myself only to have them flop. I think its exactly what they needed, its the only thing that will get through to developers and make them realize the games they have been putting out aren't even close to what they should be doing.
1. VANGUARD. I got into closed beta and played for about 9 months after release. This game could have been huge if it were polished at release, and if SOE would put some more effort into it. I loved how big the world was. There was so much to see and do, not just go to area X at level Y and get Z armor/weapon set then go to next area and bypass large chunks of content. Itcould have been huge, but it's not, and never will be.
I do agree with UOLover on his point.
But if a company puts effort and love into its game, then I'd like to see more sandbox. No more shitty half-assed companies spending a week's paycheck to toss out a game on the market and expect everyone to pay 60USD and get NOTHING in return (Mortal online).
I want to be able to literally build a village or castle or city from the ground up. Starting with the planning phase, bringing in new citizens, setting up industry and even manage my own country. But I want to do all this in an MMO atmosphere and NOT in a browser or top-down strategy view all the time.
This should include full 3D graphics, social systems, and maybe a little PVP but no one would want to lose everything they've built up so if it doesn't have PVP that's acceptable.
It just seems that games these days don't have enough to do. I despise leveling. I'm not a number, how can you roleplay if you say "I'm a level 72 mage". I want it to allow me to craft items, farm crops, chop trees and build ships. Ships a HUGE part of any game I play, so seafaring and trade would be nice as well.
Now I NEVER pay for an online game....but if a game such as what I've typed were to be released...I would happily pay double the going rate a month for it.
Companys invest far to much in graphics/artwork, which holds the players for at least a month. In the end you will end up playing it even though deep down inside, you know it is boring. Players inside want a new feel, a new MMO experience, do you remember that tingling feeling you had when you first watched the first world of warcraft cinematic, only to realize soon after playing it was nothing like it. I personally chose undead cause in the cinematic, as the undead walked everything around him was dying. It had an effect on the environment, but as I said above it was nothing like it at all.
We live in a time were graphics mean alot to a player, I over time have noticed, that id rather play something more realistic. I'n the end It's not just graphics I want which is still nice to have though :P its GAMEPLAY, I'm very tired of the same gameplay, graphics are being invested into far to much, which I do like but its the gameplay that gets me. Am I the only one who is tired of clicking on a mob, lets say a level 1 wolf and hitting number 1 or 2/etc on your keyboard to cast the spells?
I can go on and on about this but now its time to voice my future gaming ideas for next gen gaming.
--
- No more HP&Mana bar
- No More Interface/HUD /Minimap character picture with the hp&mana bar attached this also includes;
- No More Spellbar ((I want is the screen, the full screen to myself
- No more zombie characters (replace the HP&Mana bar) (( I want to see blood I want to hear the character cry out, when he is hit in the arm, I want to see limbs get cut off :O I want them to react when a giant FLAME of fire is being tossed at them and hit in the face arrrrggh ouch* :x
- No More Point A To B/C Quests, most likely nearly no quests at all I dont even want to hear the word quest. Though they're will be adventures.
- Very Very Fast Paced Fighting, (were talking Naruto Shippuuden/ Saskue Vs itachi fast) which applys for characters like the warrior/Ninja exluding the magicial my idea for them is below)
- Loads of classes/fighting choices although restricting the impossible like a ninja cant cast a magicial awesome spell but they can run really fast and do awesome ninja stuff :F with the black ninja clothes ohhh...naruto shippuuden once again..as a wizard you would go slow :O and etc. next :P!
- Towns that are alive, each NPC matters and has story, and the Dynamic Event system which was in my mind before it was stolen <.
- I want 100,000 Vs 100,000 PVP wars with INSANE combat no more living or dying more of a survival. if not push it even more if possible :P we are in the cloud gaming era make it happen :P or I will :O!!
- Backpacks, that have space and fill up, citys that are run by the players the guards the heros everything.
of course NPCs to be there as well.
(((((This is one of my personal ideas which I did not think about saying here but I went this far might as well go farther!)))))))
- As I mentioned above no more zombie characters, you are NOT the character you are the person in the mind your just there the conscience. (HEAVY Animations)
- Voice activated spells English/Ancient ingame language for Wizard Spells (warrior/other classes not saying) :P mine!
- Advancement of the camera (next level of the camera) meaning the camera does not just follow you it adds to the experience of PVP etc. like a cinematic fight of some sort :P make it epic XD the camera is something developers do NOT use to much.
- Characters that are amazing, up to the final fantasy level (13 not 14) a singleplayer character exp. not that cheap plastic hair which looks uber fake.
- No more logs that hold the quests, windows that magically open, this goes for the market area like buying an item. I dont want something to open I want a choice and then I want to see a paying animation and him or her handing me the weapon and me equiping it on my characters back. or if its small it goes in the BACKPACK which has real space in it. if its full it breaks.
One of my big ideas which im leaving at the near end is
- AGE thats right actual age although its like the sun going down 6-hours a month in real time is like 3-years in-game time. you start off as a kid and grow up etc. and there will be so many choices it will be crrraaaazy!!!
- No More insane grinding, I mean think about it kill a wolf kill another wolf that looks exactly the same. then it just spawns back. (it means perma death never to be seen again like robbers and bounty kill em dead they're dead for good. same goes to the players of the game once your characters gone hes gone for good :P) (not going into more detail about this one) (and I know I shouldnt have added onto this one it was suppose to be about grinding!!!!!!) :O not organized
- No More FAIL just spawning examples aion/warhammer no story to it (sort of attacked there:P) and WoW to add I guess. (Example in WoW you make a Troll Or Orc and you just spawn in the "Starting Zone" gah hate that. or Aion were you just Appear and then there's a quest waiting for you the yellow little mark above his head saying KILL THIS then do that and come back or go to him to turn it in. GAHH :O
- I want strength to replace the skill points to see the muscles grow, I want to see scratches which happen after battles, I want you to be scared for your character to die. Living or Dying more about surviving!!
- Amazing story, it can be possible if you put the right ammount of time into and all these ideas can be applied to a game thats being built just for a year with a real end to the game which is KNOWN as end game although its not the end since there's a part 2/or another game to the story with even more amazing stuffs!
- Everyone matters in the game, always a differen't objective of some sort, clans, guilds, citys if not towns which are built and controlled by the players. thinking about 6-ninjas in dark clothing sneaking through the night.
- ooh ooh!! and and and!! amazing day and night time which also applys to heavy animations/real character emotion/living etc. I want when night time hits night time I want it to be dark were you need to grab a torch or something
!!! ah my hands hurt imma take a break -.- ill keep adding =D!
---------------- Etc. :P---------------
My list goes on, we live in the beginning of MMO's we have those who are younger with passion, to create games/MMOs coming into our times. FRESH ideas.
I agree with you MMO's in the past 5-years have been stuck in a hole, they want success, its about the money.
But games are just beginning, think about it in the 1990s computers were just starting to shine, we evolved in 10-years! I know this next one does not relate but its just to prove my point. Youtube started in 2005 that was only 5-years ago. MMO's graphic-wise have improved dramaticly over the past 5-years combat however has stayed the same.
I dont want any bull, saying everything Iv said is just a dream, its impossible. we can do it XD the internet was created so im a believer :P jump in my magical boat of dreams >:{
In my opinion, companys need to invest a little more in new combat, my dream would be a naruto shippuuden like game the fighting at least, I want wizards and warlocks, mages whatever you want the word to be used to be spell/voice activiated(advance voice activiation) (clap clap, lights on lights off) :P, to use english or any other language or use the ingame ancient language for the spells. (Advance the camera useage) use the cameras instead of the camera just following your character, I want to see the cameras move while in battle to give the player a better expirence.etc etc meh XD
I have so many more ideas!!
I dont know about you but im very excited for the next 10-years of my life, we live in the golden ara of gaming, the beginning.
What features I would like to see in the future:
All mmorpgs that release in the future that have a respectable budget (not sure how to quantify this) should have the following if they are (a) a fantasy mmorpg (b) are subscription based.
1. Housing: WoW, the juggernaut of mmorpgs, the McDonald's of the industry where so many are served but so few truly satisfied has taught us since 2004 that it really cares little for depth and would rather continue on the model of build it and they will come. In this case, build new expansions.
2. A three (or more) faction model. In regards to fantasy mmorpgs (not anime grinders ala Rising Force, etc.) Dark Age of Camelot set the standard that no one followed. Three realms work by far better than the "let's play it safe and use WoW as the grand model from whence all mmorpgs stem" model. Why do 3 realms work? Simply put: the 3rd realm acts as an unpredictable wild card. Imagine, for example, if you were defending a keep in Warhammer, and as you ran back and forth, milking the keep lord for 15 kill quests (or whatever number), that suddenly a new scuffle occured outdoors. You realize that the Forces of Destruction are falling like flies in a fire between your defense and the intrusion of the third (Let's call the the realm that haunts the sewers) realm. Skaven warriors are rolling over the bodies of Black Orcs and White Lions alike. Undead rogues are unstealthing laughing gleefully over the bodies of rune priests and archmages, who's deathly embrace acts as a mirror to the bodies of shaman, disciples and zealots that mark the ground. The siege is won - but by the third realm who waited just when both the first and second were at their weakest.
3. If you build a wall, someone will build a trebuchet. Walls should fall, towers should burst into flames, but players should also be able to direct the building of such things through a type of crafting that heavily involved npc craftsmen.
4. I am very sorry that somewhere developers listened to players who complained too much about their realm not having X or Y class that the other realm had. This has today taken mmorpgs such as WoW into a world where soon Tauren Paladins will hoof their way into the light. It's already bad enough that everything looks the same on the battlefields of the mmorpg industry. Can we not allow for a samurai type warrior to face off against a medieval knight? Is it too hard to imagine the popularity of the Spike T.V. series, "Deadliest Warrior?" Do we not know why it's so blased exciting to see a Spartan warrior shield slam a Japanese ninja? Variety = a sign of creativity. /nuff said.
5. The world does not need to cater to pvp or to pve. Rather, both should be equally rewarded. If I choose to live my life in a pvp world, then let my gear and skills show that. But if I choose to live in pve then allow me to be just as strong and respect by my peers. That is fine. But to make pve matter to the pvp player and to make pvp matter to the lowly leveler who wonders if they will make it to max level...let all factions announce their failures and success in both pve and pvp. If a guild takes a castle, let that guild's realm be rewarded somehow. The guild will have masive rewards for the victory, but allow for the realm to honor them. If that guild has members who down a PVE Boss - or defeat the entirety of a dungeon - then allow for special benefits to occur for those in PvP.
The god Dyamaklees will now grant warriors in the field of battle a special blessing when they are defending any keep that is covered in his blood. etc.
6. Instanced pvp should be at best limited to a special type of battleground (or a few). Non-instanced pvp should exist to add a sense of reality and flavor to an mmorpg. This "collection" of areas should be chock full of massive pve xp rewards for all three + realms. There should be capturable objectives.
7. Each realm/faction should be able to level uniquely in their own country. This will allow for players to feel a sense of identity and to be immersed in their own culture. Note I am not saying each race in a faction should have its own - Dark Age of Camelot taught us why Warhammer had empty zones 3 months after release. You keep ONE area per 10 or so levels per map for ALL races on that faction.
8. Options.
We need options.
1. Dyes
2. Customizable housing
3. Guild housing
4. Role Playing support on RP servers (this means CSRs monitoring the arse - hats who try to stop RP or attempt to replace RP with childish or sick garbage such as emo/erotic RP (a.k.a. ERP). WoW having RP servers means nothing if names are still a joke, and there is nothing graphically and content wise in place to promote RP. /dance making your elf do the Michael Jackson sure as heck doesn't count for RP.
9. Seafaring battles! Allow for the pirating and ship building. etc.
10. Never allow Free-To-Play cash shops. Before you realize it, the company wil create ways to make you only able to compete in pvp (as an example) with the amount of money you are willing to spend. Don't like that statement? I'm not going to bother explaining it. I'll let other folks do that because it's a dead horse topic.
Tired - there is much more but this is my 2 cents. This will be ignored and forgotten but at least I was able to vent.
/salute
My opinion is most of that is from the developer's graphic tool and gamer's graphic card getting better. Developers dont' actually spend that much more money or effort on graphic.
You probably even need to spend more time on graphic on some of the older games. Because the lack of polygon means you have to do alot more graphical painting.
Sign me up too, that sounds really refreshing and fun.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
By Graphics also including the artwork, characters/items/backgrounds/everything which is what they invest alot in.
I believe thats what I meant XD
Aion/GW2
examples (which is good! :x)
There is not enough roleplaying in MMORPG...
I mean like actually thinking of Mortality or being able to actually survive on your own. Shooter games get more graphic improvements and a game like Crysis that has PPHD, HDR, full Physics, you can think how you will do something and do it.
An MMORPG you can have all the skills and abilities maxed out and you still are going to need a party to kill most monsters. MMORPG translates to a party of players standing 10 ft away from a monster and engaging in "simultaneous" button clicking in a certain pattern dictated by time. If you break from this pattern, everyone in the party dies. If you follow the pattern exactly, your party wins. Simple as that.
Balancing a game so a player can function in a party or alone is important. In a shooter, at least in multiplayer I may have 100 health like everyone else...but I have to THINK of how to actually survive and choose what I will do and ACTIVELY do it.
MMORPGs have been dead for a very long time while Singleplayer non-japanese RPGs are always getting better. Japanese RPGs are still the same old "55 hours of random encounters" and 4 - 5 hours of story. FPS games have been improving with their AI and their mapping structure as well as even story. Real Time Strategy is still the same Resource Gathering, Destroy Enemy-Base games.....
In MMORPGs your character is just an avatar to view the world. The character has NO real character story in the world unless you make one up which doesnt matter to the game engine. In Modern Warfare I and II, the game is about the characters in the story. Same with the Original DeusEx. That game was about how JCDENTON handled things....I guess the reason PERSONAL GAME ACCOMPLISHMENTS are important in MMORPGs is because of the absense of characters actually belonging to the actual game world.
I am hoping Guild Wars II moves the Genre in the right direction.....because its kind of sad today.
1. Tabula Rasa because it had the potential to adding to the scifi part of the MMO market. If it had more depth on the nature of the language in the game that too would have made it worthwhile.
2. I hope to see more small firms get involved in the creation of MMOs, even if it's just in middleware. All the better for making MMOs accessible to both players and developers.
3. Housing of UO and SWG. No other game has ever replicated this feature as these two titles have done. It seems like one of the few features that could easily be done without need of instances or 'apartments.' And easily coded, imho as a fellow code monkey.
i havent actually played an mmo in a long time now, since i quit wow a couple years ago. here i am at work bored and thought id visit this site to see if anything new is coming out that might make me want to play an mmo again. ive been looking around the site, reading the forums and thinking to myself that the landscape for mmo's looks no different than it did 2 years ago when i quit playing them. anyway, here is my 2 cents and it may be kinda long because i can get long winded at times.
1: WOW has basically killed mmo's and pc gaming in general. i actually think there are some decent mmo's out there already. have you ever tried to get your friends to actually play them? i have and it doesnt work. i think vanguard is a great game and still probably the best mmo ive ever played. i quit playing vanguard too because there just plain arent enough people. i tried getting my friends to play and after asking at least 10 people i couldnt even get anyone to download the free trial island. i think that as long as WOW is around and they keep gaining subscriptions a new game is just not going to be able to compete. it will always be compared to WOW.
2: the playerbase in current online games is just plain deplorable. i used to think it was funny to see people acting like idiots on battle.net back in the day but now its everywhere. when i started playing mmo's during the hayday of everquest we had a great community. now, we have....well im sure most people here know what the community is like.
3: mmo's are running into the same problems that console games are encountering. the games just suck. more and more i see the emphasis in gaming be on visuals and less and less thought goes into an actual game. im tired of logging into an mmo and seeing people comain about cartoony graphics or "zomg these the textures in this game are teh suck". dont get me wrong, good visuals are nice but, i want to play a game, not look at it.
4: again with wow.....there is a reason everyone compares games to wow. the games look, act, play, feel like a WOW lite. every new game has pretty much just been a lesser copy of WOW with some kind of gimmick added in. you are NOT going to steal players from wow by making a wow-like product, make something new.
i could say more but i think this post is long enough. anyway, thanks for having me on the forums.
How can you say the genre dead, if the population has grown over the past 6 years.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
The population have grown. But the quality of game have not.
I think over the years we seen single player games or movies getting better and better. But we havn't seen that in the MMORPG genre.
But it probably have something to do with budget. For single player games or movies they are getting more and more budget. But not the MMORPG genre.
i would say real mmoRPG's are dead (thanks to wow, the community's & the swg fiasco called nge)!
mmo's are alive ... or you can call them cs with a persistent world and some other extra's
i have to admit that some of them are fun ... at least for a while
true mmorpg's = RIP
I wish Aion came out as I expected it, but it wasnt't,. I hope TERA is what I expect but it might nott be. I pretty much have lowered my expectations of all games in hopes that I might actually enjoy them.
My favorite features of past MMO's has been Lineage 2's political system, and it has never been recreated properly... too bad NCsoft sucks at managing their games in North America or the game would have had some serious staying power.
Some of you guys crack me up... lol. Mmo's dead. Rofl. On what planet? Just because these games aren't getting your money doesn't mean that they do in-fact suck, and aren't making money. I for one was waiting for Aion, and i'm still having a great time playing it. So for me, mmo's are alive and well, and being played. The other 15k folks on my server obviously don't think mmo's are dead either. Just because most of the folks around here are bitter and jaded, doesn't mean all of the pc gamers out there are also.
To keep my post down in size i gave names of games that answered your questions. The new games im looking forward to all seem to be making existing mechanics better while trying to innovate in a couple ways to appeal to a specific playerbase.
You say the mmo genre has been dead for five years? I disagree. Games like Lotro, Aion, AoC (after changes), DDO (after f2p revival) and a couple awesome F2p games have proven mmos are still atleast decent.
Again sorry for just tossing in names of mmos but to list my favorite features would bascially turn my post into a novella.
Edit: Just to avoid confusion I do agree that the genre needs help and as a whole it kinda sucks right now but I don't think its been dead since WoW released.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
i wouldn't say it is dead, and neither are MMOs dying, but despite growing population they are not healthy.
The problem is that there are too many MMOs nowadays, with too many being too similar.
If the tons of MMOs really would differ from another, people could more easily find their niche. If there were less, as in the early days of MMOs, then communities could gather more concentrated and there wouldn't be the "MMO tourism" where people wander from one game to the next, hoping or expecting whatever.
Regarding OPs 1-3:
1) LOTRO, WAR, AoC didn't turn out as I expected (neither did STO, but after my past experience I didn't have any expectations really)
2) Not too many F2P AAA MMOs. If, then something like EQ2 will have, with one server F2P, the reminder are still P2P.
Otherwise my hopes are in the communities, rather than developers: Less whining, more patience with the noobs and the casual players (e.g. the gearscore in WoW is a horror imho for casual players).
3) Pet-system in SWG pre-NGE, as well as the pet-system in current SWG.
And tons of features so you go "nuts", and thus don't have the sole-urge to only reach level cap.
I could agree that I wish there were less games out there. I started playing mmo's with Shadowbane and at the time it came out in 2002, there were not many games out that I knew of; Eq1, AO and UO. They were the only ones out I knew of; I'm sure there were more, but those were the ones on the table. By the time WoW and Eq2 were coming out, they were pretty much our only choices when leaving Shadowbane. (Again, I'm sure there were more, but they were the only ones we would consider). Now, when I left Eq2, I had about 15 legitimate options..lol.
These games live and die by the players and if you get in the game and can't find anyone to play with, you won't stay long.
2. open dungeons, non instanced crap, harsh death penalty and finally a more oldschool community where WoW players wont last long.
3. virtual world
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
1. Warhammer Online. Great universe, but terrible PVE and poor class/combat design.
2. I want both a new WOW, and a multitude of non-WOW types of MMOs. Cataclysm won't quite fill the "new WOW" but will be a temporary fix. As for non-WOW games, I definitely have room for an MMOFPS or two. Also I think MMORTSes still have potential if done in the flavor of Shattered Galaxy. Lastly I'd also enjoy a MMORPG done in the style of Haven & Hearth or ATITD (a very crafting-focused game, but with light or nonexistant PVP to muck things up.) But that's only the MMO formulas we know about; there are plenty out there which have yet to be explored.
3. Sidekicking (CoX) needs to be standard issue for MMORPGs with progression. Obviously the social element of MMOs is a big deal, so why do companies leave these barriers in place which prevent you playing with friends?
For that matter, the Role System in CO sounded incredible but was implemented in this terrible non-grouping MMO so that it never even came into play.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Yes, genre died the day WoW came out.
Middle Earth Online went from sandbox to WoW clone in a mere 4 months during alpha and I watched patch by patch as the best community ever in an online game was torn apart by Turbine.
Vanguard went under because SoE forced it to launch early and right behind WoW's first expansion.
Darkfall is the only MMO that gives me hope for the future, the only one to realize you don't need instances to have an MMO.
Favorite features of past MMOs? Socializing, public dungeons, good PvP, immersion.