Personally I'm bewildered as to why people are so surprised at this news. People have obviously been expecting far more than what Bioware told us. Read their original announcement and you'll see that they emphasised that space combat wasn't going to be a primary focus or like JTL in its depth.
Now, IF the concept proves to be popular after launch, then maybe they'll develop it further. But right now, Bioware have too much on their plate to launch a polished "land based" game, let alone divert resources to incorporating what people are expecting to be a whole expansion into a game that has yet to be launched.
Then the question proposed should be why bother doing it all.
If Bioware didn't have the time and resources to do space combat properly then why didn't they wait until they did in order to do it properly. The QQ comes from the fact people didn't expect Bioware to go the half assed last minute add-on route. If they said they would introduce it in a later expansion where they could do it the justice it deserved then I'm sure most would understand.
Another question should also be asked. Why the vague announcement. Bioware knew full well the large amount of misconceptions produced from such an announcement or at least should of unless were being incompetant. They should have explained most of it in the announcement to avoid this confusion but again they left it very vague.
Personally I'm bewildered as to why people are so surprised at this news. People have obviously been expecting far more than what Bioware told us. Read their original announcement and you'll see that they emphasised that space combat wasn't going to be a primary focus or like JTL in its depth.
Now, IF the concept proves to be popular after launch, then maybe they'll develop it further. But right now, Bioware have too much on their plate to launch a polished "land based" game, let alone divert resources to incorporating what people are expecting to be a whole expansion into a game that has yet to be launched.
Then the question proposed should be why bother doing it all.
If Bioware didn't have the time and resources to do space combat properly then why didn't they wait until they did in order to do it properly. The QQ comes from the fact people didn't expect Bioware to go the half assed last minute add-on route. If they said they would introduce it in a later expansion where they could do it the justice it deserved then I'm sure most would understand.
Another question should also be asked. Why the vague announcement. Bioware knew full well the large amount of misconceptions produced from such an announcement or at least should of unless were being incompetant. They should have explained most of it in the announcement to avoid this confusion but again they left it very vague.
Your first question is a very good one indeed. One that can only be truely answered by Bioware and LA themselves. I think on this one occasion they felt that by even adding this level of space combat they could potentially attract more people. But it may very well bite them in the ass. Space combat could be the anchor that weighs down the rest of the game, overshadowing the polish of the land based game with poorly implemented space combat features.
On the other hand, Bioware may have time and resources available to develop space combat further prior to launch.
As for the vague announcement, if you look at the original announcment carefully you'll see that they tried to emphasise the point that it wasn't going to be a main focus in the game. Thereby implying that in development terms, there won't be as much focus as there is on the core gameplay. Yes, Bioware and LA have been cagey throughout this games development, but if the past hasn't taught us anything else, it showed us that we need to learn to manage our expectations a little better.
Hope for the best, but expect the worst.
Finally, remember there is still some time to go. PC Gamer / PC Action's interview is NOT a review of the final product. Bioware are notorious for being cagey. They are only telling us what they can guarantee will be in the game. Nothing more. So for all we know, they may already be developing more depth, but aren't willing to discuss it yet.
Personally I'm bewildered as to why people are so surprised at this news. People have obviously been expecting far more than what Bioware told us. Read their original announcement and you'll see that they emphasised that space combat wasn't going to be a primary focus or like JTL in its depth.
Now, IF the concept proves to be popular after launch, then maybe they'll develop it further. But right now, Bioware have too much on their plate to launch a polished "land based" game, let alone divert resources to incorporating what people are expecting to be a whole expansion into a game that has yet to be launched.
Then the question proposed should be why bother doing it all.
If Bioware didn't have the time and resources to do space combat properly then why didn't they wait until they did in order to do it properly. The QQ comes from the fact people didn't expect Bioware to go the half assed last minute add-on route. If they said they would introduce it in a later expansion where they could do it the justice it deserved then I'm sure most would understand.
Another question should also be asked. Why the vague announcement. Bioware knew full well the large amount of misconceptions produced from such an announcement or at least should of unless were being incompetant. They should have explained most of it in the announcement to avoid this confusion but again they left it very vague.
Your first question is a very good one indeed. One that can only be truely answered by Bioware and LA themselves. I think on this one occasion they felt that by even adding this level of space combat they could potentially attract more people. But it may very well bite them in the ass. Space combat could be the anchor that weighs down the rest of the game, overshadowing the polish of the land based game with poorly implemented space combat features.
As for the vague announcement, if you look at the original announcment carefully you'll see that they tried to emphasise the point that it wasn't going to be a main focus in the game. Thereby implying that in development terms, there won't be as much focus as there is on the core gameplay. Yes, Bioware and LA have been cagey throughout this games development, but if the past hasn't taught us anything else, it showed us that we need to learn to manage our expectations a little better.
Hope for the best, but expect the worst.
I agree people should have managed expectation better, I sure did but many didn't and that's the problem I think they should have done it in a way the produced the least misconceptions. I don't the way they did was adequate enough to make their intentions apparant to all or even most fans.
Meh I'm mostly just venting my anger at Bioware's hype machine. It's almost like they want to breed misconceptions about the game, for what reason I don't know but it seems that why. I mean the first thing they released about the game... a cinematic trailer with zero gameplay information and now this. Great job Bioware.
I honestly never expected the space combat in the game to be anything like how it was implemented in SWG. Its not the focus of the game. I am honestly glad that it will be more scripted and cinematic. Still, we have yet to hear this directly from Bioware and we don't yet know how it will 'feel' just like everything else in the game...
I'm not trying to make you upset, you dont matter enough to me to make the effort. I'm not desperately throwing around the word sport and sonny in some childish/ AMATURE attempt at trolling, or whatever it is you're doing. And their magazine interviews which have been posted and I posted right above you directly contradict what you just said. They didn't announce space combat, they announced lame rail combat on a timer with no real space travel. Which is sort of the point of this topic in the first place. I will NEVER trust EA games if you want to be complacent thats your deal.
I mean by all means remark on the topic,but don't presume I pay attention to you,like you, or care about your thoughts.. or respect you in any way. Shrug.
i marked the part that it's all about in red. Thank you for showing how prejudiced your are in your own words.
No matter what information would have been revealed about SW:TOR, it wouldn't have mattered and it will not matter, you never intended to give it the slightest chance anyway whatever fake arguments you're dragging into the discussion: it's purely trolling, trashing and hating on a game.
Why? You said it yourself: you will never trust EA and EA games.
SW:TOR will always be a EA game to you whatever info is revealed. You made that very, very clear.
To other people that don't foster lifelong grudges and can debate a topic with a glimmer of reason: come on, people, do we have to be immature here about every topic?
Sure, I was disappointed too when I read that the space battle won't be JTL-like, I'm giong to wait for the PC Gamer to read it myself what is being revealed in detail.
I don't let that disappointment rule me though: SWG didn't have space combat at first too, they came later with it. What's wrong with that, why is it a must that Bioware have it all in SWTOR at launch? For that matter, why so much focus on all the negative stuff?
Are you people so scared that SW:TOR will draw away people from your favored MMO, is that the reason for the obsessive ranting?
Or are you people so hung up on your desire for a SWG 2 or sandbox type MMO's that you're determined to hate and flame SW:TOR, because it's not?
I don't get it, this eagerness for new MMO's to fail. Are you real MMO gamers, or what?
I'd think that real MMO gamers would like the MMO field to have a wide variety of fun MMO's to enjoy, an infusion of new MMO's would be great in an otherwise stagnant MMO field.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm good with it being an "on-rails shooter". Every now and then I feel the need to mindlessly blow stuff up on rails and this sounds like a fun little diversion.
It almost sounds like at launch space flight will be the mini-game you play when you're bored or waiting for your friends to log on.
However, if they decide to later add in free-form space flight with PvP, I'm good with that too.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I find the space combat, if its correctly described, to be disapointing. I think we all wish that "space" in this MMO will have a sense of freedom and sandboxyness. Who wouldn't want to hop in their ship and fly to a moon or planet, disembark and contiue your adventures. Its the ultimate experience for a sci-fi mmo like Star Wars.
With that said I just dont know how feasable technically that is to implement. Although Eve seems to do a good job of a vast space enviroment, they don't have planet content or even space station (correct me if I'm wrong) content for the owners of the space ships.
Maybe one day we can have the feel of the vastness of space coupled with the expanse of a planets surface to explore. I just wish that day would be the release of SW:TOR.
If you had played the ooooooold 1995 Starwars games, you would have known their idea of a space shooter. And those games are still quite enjoyable, I can't remember the title but i got the old original CD-ROM at home somewhere.
Personally I'm bewildered as to why people are so surprised at this news. People have obviously been expecting far more than what Bioware told us. Read their original announcement and you'll see that they emphasised that space combat wasn't going to be a primary focus or like JTL in its depth.
Now, IF the concept proves to be popular after launch, then maybe they'll develop it further. But right now, Bioware have too much on their plate to launch a polished "land based" game, let alone divert resources to incorporating what people are expecting to be a whole expansion into a game that has yet to be launched.
Then the question proposed should be why bother doing it all.
If Bioware didn't have the time and resources to do space combat properly then why didn't they wait until they did in order to do it properly. The QQ comes from the fact people didn't expect Bioware to go the half assed last minute add-on route. If they said they would introduce it in a later expansion where they could do it the justice it deserved then I'm sure most would understand.
Another question should also be asked. Why the vague announcement. Bioware knew full well the large amount of misconceptions produced from such an announcement or at least should of unless were being incompetant. They should have explained most of it in the announcement to avoid this confusion but again they left it very vague.
Your first question is a very good one indeed. One that can only be truely answered by Bioware and LA themselves. I think on this one occasion they felt that by even adding this level of space combat they could potentially attract more people. But it may very well bite them in the ass. Space combat could be the anchor that weighs down the rest of the game, overshadowing the polish of the land based game with poorly implemented space combat features.
As for the vague announcement, if you look at the original announcment carefully you'll see that they tried to emphasise the point that it wasn't going to be a main focus in the game. Thereby implying that in development terms, there won't be as much focus as there is on the core gameplay. Yes, Bioware and LA have been cagey throughout this games development, but if the past hasn't taught us anything else, it showed us that we need to learn to manage our expectations a little better.
Hope for the best, but expect the worst.
I agree people should have managed expectation better, I sure did but many didn't and that's the problem I think they should have done it in a way the produced the least misconceptions. I don't the way they did was adequate enough to make their intentions apparant to all or even most fans.
Meh I'm mostly just venting my anger at Bioware's hype machine. It's almost like they want to breed misconceptions about the game, for what reason I don't know but it seems that why. I mean the first thing they released about the game... a cinematic trailer with zero gameplay information and now this. Great job Bioware.
I've been looking forward to this Game since WAY before the Official Announcement dating back to the old BioWare forums where it was just a bunch of blind speculation at best...So I doubt anyone is more excited than I am about the Game...I think in the end it's going to be a lot of fun...
That being said it's hard to disagree with your comments...I'm not crazy at all about the way BioWare/Lucas have released info to date. The lack of certain REAL basic info, like how the Servers will be set up (will there be PvE, PvP, RP, etc...), has led to ridiculous speculation and totally unnecessary flame wars on the Official forums that could have easily been avoided...
I think to this point they've done a less than average Job about getting the TRUE info out about the Game...It's almost like they release info begrudgingly at times...It's just got boring for me personally...I go to the Official Site on Fridays and that's about it for now...
I find the space combat, if its correctly described, to be disapointing. I think we all wish that "space" in this MMO will have a sense of freedom and sandboxyness. Who wouldn't want to hop in their ship and fly to a moon or planet, disembark and contiue your adventures. Its the ultimate experience for a sci-fi mmo like Star Wars.
With that said I just dont know how feasable technically that is to implement. Although Eve seems to do a good job of a vast space enviroment, they don't have planet content or even space station (correct me if I'm wrong) content for the owners of the space ships.
Maybe one day we can have the feel of the vastness of space coupled with the expanse of a planets surface to explore. I just wish that day would be the release of SW:TOR.
If you had played the ooooooold 1995 Starwars games, you would have known their idea of a space shooter. And those games are still quite enjoyable, I can't remember the title but i got the old original CD-ROM at home somewhere.
i'm sure you mean the old x-wing series, cool games!
This thread is a good example of people letting EXPECTATIONS overrun the reality of what is. Everyone is expecting SWTOR to be SWG but much better. This includes space combat. Those are many, many, many of the EXPECTATIONS that I have been reading not only here but over at the SWTOR site. Unfortunatley, nowhere has it been said that SWTOR will be anything like SWG in any way. That includes space combat. While it will be a Star Wars BASED experience, it will not particularly be the experience that YOU might want or EXPECTED. I suggest that if you are interested in what Bioware is up to, that you do one of two things. First, apply to the Bioware SWTOR test program and see for yourselves. Or, second, wait for the game to release and then make an INFORMED judgement one way or the other. Everything else is just speculation and expectation.
Personally I'm bewildered as to why people are so surprised at this news. People have obviously been expecting far more than what Bioware told us. Read their original announcement and you'll see that they emphasised that space combat wasn't going to be a primary focus or like JTL in its depth.
Now, IF the concept proves to be popular after launch, then maybe they'll develop it further. But right now, Bioware have too much on their plate to launch a polished "land based" game, let alone divert resources to incorporating what people are expecting to be a whole expansion into a game that has yet to be launched.
Then the question proposed should be why bother doing it all.
If Bioware didn't have the time and resources to do space combat properly then why didn't they wait until they did in order to do it properly. The QQ comes from the fact people didn't expect Bioware to go the half assed last minute add-on route. If they said they would introduce it in a later expansion where they could do it the justice it deserved then I'm sure most would understand.
Another question should also be asked. Why the vague announcement. Bioware knew full well the large amount of misconceptions produced from such an announcement or at least should of unless were being incompetant. They should have explained most of it in the announcement to avoid this confusion but again they left it very vague.
Your first question is a very good one indeed. One that can only be truely answered by Bioware and LA themselves. I think on this one occasion they felt that by even adding this level of space combat they could potentially attract more people. But it may very well bite them in the ass. Space combat could be the anchor that weighs down the rest of the game, overshadowing the polish of the land based game with poorly implemented space combat features.
As for the vague announcement, if you look at the original announcment carefully you'll see that they tried to emphasise the point that it wasn't going to be a main focus in the game. Thereby implying that in development terms, there won't be as much focus as there is on the core gameplay. Yes, Bioware and LA have been cagey throughout this games development, but if the past hasn't taught us anything else, it showed us that we need to learn to manage our expectations a little better.
Hope for the best, but expect the worst.
I agree people should have managed expectation better, I sure did but many didn't and that's the problem I think they should have done it in a way the produced the least misconceptions. I don't the way they did was adequate enough to make their intentions apparant to all or even most fans.
Meh I'm mostly just venting my anger at Bioware's hype machine. It's almost like they want to breed misconceptions about the game, for what reason I don't know but it seems that why. I mean the first thing they released about the game... a cinematic trailer with zero gameplay information and now this. Great job Bioware.
I've been looking forward to this Game since WAY before the Official Announcement dating back to the old BioWare forums where it was just a bunch of blind speculation at best...So I doubt anyone is more excited than I am about the Game...I think in the end it's going to be a lot of fun...
That being said it's hard to disagree with your comments...I'm not crazy at all about the way BioWare/Lucas have released info to date. The lack of certain REAL basic info, like how the Servers will be set up (will there be PvE, PvP, RP, etc...), has led to ridiculous speculation and totally unnecessary flame wars on the Official forums that could have easily been avoided...
I think to this point they've done a less than average Job about getting the TRUE info out about the Game...It's almost like they release info begrudgingly at times...It's just got boring for me personally...I go to the Official Site on Fridays and that's about it for now...
Pretty much. I think it's in large part because of the fact it's a Bioware star wars mmo. They could release no information about the game what so ever and it would still have massive, massive amounts of hype. They've completely fallen back on it and decided to release the bare minimum. The misconceptions will inevitably bite them in the ass just like it just did with space combat. Let's just there's not many misconceptions at release, unlikely I know but one can hope.
People are expecting way too much out of this game and frankly every MMORPG releases in the past 5 years. If you want a space shooter play Eve. If you want a rich story in an mmorpg play Swtor. You can't have everything. High expectations = disapointment
People are expecting way too much out of this game and frankly every MMORPG releases in the past 5 years. If you want a space shooter play Eve. If you want a rich story in an mmorpg play Swtor. You can't have everything. High expectations = disapointment
QFT. I would change one thing though, unrealistic expectations = disapointment.
People these days really need to take a look in the mirror, you can't demand five star treatment, without five star prices, and no, $ 50 for a game is not five star pricing.
People are expecting way too much out of this game and frankly every MMORPG releases in the past 5 years. If you want a space shooter play Eve. If you want a rich story in an mmorpg play Swtor. You can't have everything. High expectations = disapointment
QFT. I would change one thing though, unrealistic expectations = disapointment.
People these days really need to take a look in the mirror, you can't demand five star treatment, without five star prices, and no, $ 50 for a game is not five star pricing.
That analogy doesn't makes any sense at all. Most sub mmo's cost roughly the same amount but the differnces in quality are vast. The quality of the game has absolute nothing to do with how much you spent on it.
I agree that for launch people were expecting too much in regards to space combat but then again it's Biowares own fault. If they didn't have the time a resources to do it properly at launch then they should of waited later on until they did. Then you have Biowares minimalistic PR. You can't say Bioware is not at least partially at fault for this mess.
This thread is a good example of people letting EXPECTATIONS overrun the reality of what is. Everyone is expecting SWTOR to be SWG but much better. This includes space combat. Those are many, many, many of the EXPECTATIONS that I have been reading not only here but over at the SWTOR site. Unfortunatley, nowhere has it been said that SWTOR will be anything like SWG in any way. That includes space combat. While it will be a Star Wars BASED experience, it will not particularly be the experience that YOU might want or EXPECTED. I suggest that if you are interested in what Bioware is up to, that you do one of two things. First, apply to the Bioware SWTOR test program and see for yourselves. Or, second, wait for the game to release and then make an INFORMED judgement one way or the other. Everything else is just speculation and expectation.
I don't think "everyone" is expecting this game to be anything like SWG, at least anyone who reads about it for 10 minutes..
For me personally, I've read a little about the PvP, from what I gather, its battlegrounds, and some open pvp, somewhat bland but ok..
Grouping, some, but...not so much, bland but ok...(With that in mind, I hate raiding...)
Cut scenes and story, a nice addition, but its really not even in the top 5 things i look for in an MMO, and thats being generous.
We get the word of space combat, folks (obvioulsy) get excited.. then we here its on "rails", bland but ok...
In my worthless opinion, with 100+ million dollar price tag, theres a lot of bland in there. Granted theres a lot of info still to come i'm sure, but with the items that Bioware has released so far, color me unimpressed.
Seems others feel the same way, so here we are at a message board dedicated to said MMO. Folks expectations will be brought up, and then speculation will ensue, what else would you like folks to talk about?
Personally I'm bewildered as to why people are so surprised at this news. People have obviously been expecting far more than what Bioware told us. Read their original announcement and you'll see that they emphasised that space combat wasn't going to be a primary focus or like JTL in its depth.
Now, IF the concept proves to be popular after launch, then maybe they'll develop it further. But right now, Bioware have too much on their plate to launch a polished "land based" game, let alone divert resources to incorporating what people are expecting to be a whole expansion into a game that has yet to be launched.
Then the question proposed should be why bother doing it all.
If Bioware didn't have the time and resources to do space combat properly then why didn't they wait until they did in order to do it properly. The QQ comes from the fact people didn't expect Bioware to go the half assed last minute add-on route. If they said they would introduce it in a later expansion where they could do it the justice it deserved then I'm sure most would understand.
Another question should also be asked. Why the vague announcement. Bioware knew full well the large amount of misconceptions produced from such an announcement or at least should of unless were being incompetant. They should have explained most of it in the announcement to avoid this confusion but again they left it very vague.
Because rail shooters are fun. Star Wars Arcade was fun. It is possible to have fun outside the -rpg genre. It's ridiculous to dismiss this element of the game as "half-assed" simply because it's pulling from another genre, and is equally silly to suggest that it's being done "improperly" for that same reason.
The flaw I'm seeing in most arguments here centers around the suggestion that depth of gameplay is the only consideration they ought to have made when implementing space combat, and that such can only be reasonably attained with the well-executed application of RPG elements. It's not like Bioware has tricked their audience - they announced that space combat would be in, but would not be the content focus ground combat was. How anyone extrapolates from that first announcement, "SPACE COMBAT IS IN AND ITS GOING TO BE HUGELY DETAILED AND RICH AND EXCITING AND ALMOST A GAME UNTO ITSELF" is beyond me. That the announcement of space combat potentially being a rail shooter somehow disqualifies it from attaining those qualifiers is equally absurd. I, personally, am pleased with the developers decision and am fairly excited about the potential modifiers they could throw into the on-rails mix.
In the end, you are still receiving all the depth of content originally promised. You are still receiving the same MMO you've been promised. You are also, at no additional cost or obligation, receiving a rail shooter a'la Star Wars Trilogy Arcade (anyone who never poured quarters into this while waiting on a movie to kick off in theaters is missing out). Don't yell at your waitress for bringing you free dessert.
The MMO community at large has an alarming tendency to become fatalistic babies at the drop of.. anything. It's got to be hard for developers to take their potential communities seriously at times.
Everyone has mixed feelings about this, but eh... I'm not so sure on the "mini-game" thing, but this game does look very promising. I'm sure, it will have something for everyone, but no one should have extremely high expectations for a game, unless they want to see them fail. Looks promising so far on a positive note.
Who said this won't be perfect after all we know what is right And the sounds of bodies clashing is enough to make them cry. You know this cannot be perfect even when it is feeling right. And the sound of bodies crashing echo through the night.
People are expecting way too much out of this game and frankly every MMORPG releases in the past 5 years. If you want a space shooter play Eve. If you want a rich story in an mmorpg play Swtor. You can't have everything. High expectations = disapointment
Yep!!!!
If anyone says they won't play eve because it isn't a twitch game they can wait on BP or Jge both are twitch space mmos and will be out before TOR.
Isnt it better if they focus on one thing first like ground combat and ground quests and add real space combat later well atleast i think its better they do that instead of having 10 DVD's to install and tons of bugs just to get everthing in it at once so im happy that they dont do more in space for now i have no doubts that they will add more space as the years go.
This thread is a good example of people letting EXPECTATIONS overrun the reality of what is. Everyone is expecting SWTOR to be SWG but much better. This includes space combat. Those are many, many, many of the EXPECTATIONS that I have been reading not only here but over at the SWTOR site. Unfortunatley, nowhere has it been said that SWTOR will be anything like SWG in any way. That includes space combat. While it will be a Star Wars BASED experience, it will not particularly be the experience that YOU might want or EXPECTED. I suggest that if you are interested in what Bioware is up to, that you do one of two things. First, apply to the Bioware SWTOR test program and see for yourselves. Or, second, wait for the game to release and then make an INFORMED judgement one way or the other. Everything else is just speculation and expectation.
I agree.
From everything we have seen and heard it is obvious that SWTOR will be nothing like SWG. It will be a great deal inferior in terms of experience, challenge and enjoyable complexity.
I even have the horrible sinking feeling that it may be worse than SWG NGE. I never dreamed I would say that. So sad.
People are expecting way too much out of this game and frankly every MMORPG releases in the past 5 years. If you want a space shooter play Eve. If you want a rich story in an mmorpg play Swtor. You can't have everything. High expectations = disapointment
QFT. I would change one thing though, unrealistic expectations = disapointment.
People these days really need to take a look in the mirror, you can't demand five star treatment, without five star prices, and no, $ 50 for a game is not five star pricing.
That analogy doesn't makes any sense at all. Most sub mmo's cost roughly the same amount but the differnces in quality are vast. The quality of the game has absolute nothing to do with how much you spent on it.
I agree that for launch people were expecting too much in regards to space combat but then again it's Biowares own fault. If they didn't have the time a resources to do it properly at launch then they should of waited later on until they did. Then you have Biowares minimalistic PR. You can't say Bioware is not at least partially at fault for this mess.
I don't know where ANYONE is getting that BioWare didn't have the time or resources to make a rewarding space combat feature. The fact is, BioWare created this type of shooter because they felt it meshes with the game.
NO its not a flight simulator, its not supposed to be. They specifically went away from that design because they wanted to focus on the core gameplay. They were hinting at this from months away with the developer blog stating the pitfalls of making the two entirely separate gameplay styles. We aren't going to have two games here, they are looking for an entire gameplay experience, not a star wars flight simulator MMO and then a star wars BioWare MMO.
The only person at fault for this "mess" is the guy who decided to raise their expectations to an unfounded degree. If people are looking for JTL or X-wing vs Tie Fighter, then they are in luck, because those games already exist, so they can go play them now, and let BioWare finish their vision of what they want their game to play like.
People shouldn't let their expectations get to the point where I think most of the people complaining are. There are limits in everything, EVERYTHING. Though you may choose not to acknowledge it, life isn't fair. Take that lesson into games as well. I understand that people are going to hear what they want to hear, however, when they announced space combat, they didn't say a rich and in-depth space sim experience, did they? I miss that part? I saw the announcement and nowhere did I hear that come out.
As someone pointed out earlier, if it came down to having two average parts of the game or having a great land and average space, I'll take the second one. Space was always a secondary part of Star Wars in my opinion.
People shouldn't let their expectations get to the point where I think most of the people complaining are. There are limits in everything, EVERYTHING. Though you may choose not to acknowledge it, life isn't fair. Take that lesson into games as well. I understand that people are going to hear what they want to hear, however, when they announced space combat, they didn't say a rich and in-depth space sim experience, did they? I miss that part? I saw the announcement and nowhere did I hear that come out.
As someone pointed out earlier, if it came down to having two average parts of the game or having a great land and average space, I'll take the second one. Space was always a secondary part of Star Wars in my opinion.
I agree:
1. A Space-shooter MMO is another sci-fi sub-genre altogether at this time in MMO's creation. This niche does not seem to be very full but TOR is in no way ever going to be able to fill it by adding a "space combat" feature! (See Blackstar by Spacetime Studios MMO on yutube - not developed, for an interesting attempt at this).
2. The "on-rails" space combat is likely to be still very befitting and successful inclusion to the overall game with a lot of TOR players, I'm guessing, when it finally comes out, adding just another facet to the game.
3. Turning a small disappointment in expectation of one feature of this game into a global catastrophe for the game/company is not realistic is obvious enough. It could be a load of old... but the game is still moving in a very promising direction whether you are going to try it or not.
4. Good scoop btw whoever dug this one up.
In summary Space-Combat felt like a "killer app" and so for it to be confirmed as less than a "true Space-MMO experience" that's much less than a lot of people want. But I think it will turn out be good when the game is out, just not a full MMO title inside the TOR one! ; )
People are expecting way too much out of this game and frankly every MMORPG releases in the past 5 years. If you want a space shooter play Eve. If you want a rich story in an mmorpg play Swtor. You can't have everything. High expectations = disapointment
QFT. I would change one thing though, unrealistic expectations = disapointment.
People these days really need to take a look in the mirror, you can't demand five star treatment, without five star prices, and no, $ 50 for a game is not five star pricing.
That analogy doesn't makes any sense at all. Most sub mmo's cost roughly the same amount but the differnces in quality are vast. The quality of the game has absolute nothing to do with how much you spent on it.
I agree that for launch people were expecting too much in regards to space combat but then again it's Biowares own fault. If they didn't have the time a resources to do it properly at launch then they should of waited later on until they did. Then you have Biowares minimalistic PR. You can't say Bioware is not at least partially at fault for this mess.
I don't know where ANYONE is getting that BioWare didn't have the time or resources to make a rewarding space combat feature. The fact is, BioWare created this type of shooter because they felt it meshes with the game.
NO its not a flight simulator, its not supposed to be. They specifically went away from that design because they wanted to focus on the core gameplay. They were hinting at this from months away with the developer blog stating the pitfalls of making the two entirely separate gameplay styles. We aren't going to have two games here, they are looking for an entire gameplay experience, not a star wars flight simulator MMO and then a star wars BioWare MMO.
The only person at fault for this "mess" is the guy who decided to raise their expectations to an unfounded degree. If people are looking for JTL or X-wing vs Tie Fighter, then they are in luck, because those games already exist, so they can go play them now, and let BioWare finish their vision of what they want their game to play like.
On a side note, Rogue Squadron was a good game.
Except the vast majority of defenders over at the swtor official forums are saying that's peobably the reason. People are moaning because it seems highly likely that the game will have little to no depth. That's all fair and good but the fact that Bioware didn't make that fact crystal clear the second they mentioned the feature is why Bioware is at least partly at fault here.
What they said could have been interpretated a thousand different ways. You can't blame peoples expectations when the developer made such a vague statement. Sure people should have known better but with what they said it's was easily predictable to see the possible misconceptions. Either Bioware was seriously incompetant or more than likely they knew exactly what they were doing when they made that annoucement. Either way the misconceptions or at least partly Biowares fault.
Comments
Then the question proposed should be why bother doing it all.
If Bioware didn't have the time and resources to do space combat properly then why didn't they wait until they did in order to do it properly. The QQ comes from the fact people didn't expect Bioware to go the half assed last minute add-on route. If they said they would introduce it in a later expansion where they could do it the justice it deserved then I'm sure most would understand.
Another question should also be asked. Why the vague announcement. Bioware knew full well the large amount of misconceptions produced from such an announcement or at least should of unless were being incompetant. They should have explained most of it in the announcement to avoid this confusion but again they left it very vague.
Your first question is a very good one indeed. One that can only be truely answered by Bioware and LA themselves. I think on this one occasion they felt that by even adding this level of space combat they could potentially attract more people. But it may very well bite them in the ass. Space combat could be the anchor that weighs down the rest of the game, overshadowing the polish of the land based game with poorly implemented space combat features.
On the other hand, Bioware may have time and resources available to develop space combat further prior to launch.
As for the vague announcement, if you look at the original announcment carefully you'll see that they tried to emphasise the point that it wasn't going to be a main focus in the game. Thereby implying that in development terms, there won't be as much focus as there is on the core gameplay. Yes, Bioware and LA have been cagey throughout this games development, but if the past hasn't taught us anything else, it showed us that we need to learn to manage our expectations a little better.
Hope for the best, but expect the worst.
Finally, remember there is still some time to go. PC Gamer / PC Action's interview is NOT a review of the final product. Bioware are notorious for being cagey. They are only telling us what they can guarantee will be in the game. Nothing more. So for all we know, they may already be developing more depth, but aren't willing to discuss it yet.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
I agree people should have managed expectation better, I sure did but many didn't and that's the problem I think they should have done it in a way the produced the least misconceptions. I don't the way they did was adequate enough to make their intentions apparant to all or even most fans.
Meh I'm mostly just venting my anger at Bioware's hype machine. It's almost like they want to breed misconceptions about the game, for what reason I don't know but it seems that why. I mean the first thing they released about the game... a cinematic trailer with zero gameplay information and now this. Great job Bioware.
I honestly never expected the space combat in the game to be anything like how it was implemented in SWG. Its not the focus of the game. I am honestly glad that it will be more scripted and cinematic. Still, we have yet to hear this directly from Bioware and we don't yet know how it will 'feel' just like everything else in the game...
i marked the part that it's all about in red. Thank you for showing how prejudiced your are in your own words.
No matter what information would have been revealed about SW:TOR, it wouldn't have mattered and it will not matter, you never intended to give it the slightest chance anyway whatever fake arguments you're dragging into the discussion: it's purely trolling, trashing and hating on a game.
Why? You said it yourself: you will never trust EA and EA games.
SW:TOR will always be a EA game to you whatever info is revealed. You made that very, very clear.
To other people that don't foster lifelong grudges and can debate a topic with a glimmer of reason: come on, people, do we have to be immature here about every topic?
Sure, I was disappointed too when I read that the space battle won't be JTL-like, I'm giong to wait for the PC Gamer to read it myself what is being revealed in detail.
I don't let that disappointment rule me though: SWG didn't have space combat at first too, they came later with it. What's wrong with that, why is it a must that Bioware have it all in SWTOR at launch? For that matter, why so much focus on all the negative stuff?
Are you people so scared that SW:TOR will draw away people from your favored MMO, is that the reason for the obsessive ranting?
Or are you people so hung up on your desire for a SWG 2 or sandbox type MMO's that you're determined to hate and flame SW:TOR, because it's not?
I don't get it, this eagerness for new MMO's to fail. Are you real MMO gamers, or what?
I'd think that real MMO gamers would like the MMO field to have a wide variety of fun MMO's to enjoy, an infusion of new MMO's would be great in an otherwise stagnant MMO field.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm good with it being an "on-rails shooter". Every now and then I feel the need to mindlessly blow stuff up on rails and this sounds like a fun little diversion.
It almost sounds like at launch space flight will be the mini-game you play when you're bored or waiting for your friends to log on.
However, if they decide to later add in free-form space flight with PvP, I'm good with that too.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
If you had played the ooooooold 1995 Starwars games, you would have known their idea of a space shooter. And those games are still quite enjoyable, I can't remember the title but i got the old original CD-ROM at home somewhere.
I've been looking forward to this Game since WAY before the Official Announcement dating back to the old BioWare forums where it was just a bunch of blind speculation at best...So I doubt anyone is more excited than I am about the Game...I think in the end it's going to be a lot of fun...
That being said it's hard to disagree with your comments...I'm not crazy at all about the way BioWare/Lucas have released info to date. The lack of certain REAL basic info, like how the Servers will be set up (will there be PvE, PvP, RP, etc...), has led to ridiculous speculation and totally unnecessary flame wars on the Official forums that could have easily been avoided...
I think to this point they've done a less than average Job about getting the TRUE info out about the Game...It's almost like they release info begrudgingly at times...It's just got boring for me personally...I go to the Official Site on Fridays and that's about it for now...
i'm sure you mean the old x-wing series, cool games!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_X-Wing
This thread is a good example of people letting EXPECTATIONS overrun the reality of what is. Everyone is expecting SWTOR to be SWG but much better. This includes space combat. Those are many, many, many of the EXPECTATIONS that I have been reading not only here but over at the SWTOR site. Unfortunatley, nowhere has it been said that SWTOR will be anything like SWG in any way. That includes space combat. While it will be a Star Wars BASED experience, it will not particularly be the experience that YOU might want or EXPECTED. I suggest that if you are interested in what Bioware is up to, that you do one of two things. First, apply to the Bioware SWTOR test program and see for yourselves. Or, second, wait for the game to release and then make an INFORMED judgement one way or the other. Everything else is just speculation and expectation.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Pretty much. I think it's in large part because of the fact it's a Bioware star wars mmo. They could release no information about the game what so ever and it would still have massive, massive amounts of hype. They've completely fallen back on it and decided to release the bare minimum. The misconceptions will inevitably bite them in the ass just like it just did with space combat. Let's just there's not many misconceptions at release, unlikely I know but one can hope.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
People are expecting way too much out of this game and frankly every MMORPG releases in the past 5 years. If you want a space shooter play Eve. If you want a rich story in an mmorpg play Swtor. You can't have everything. High expectations = disapointment
QFT. I would change one thing though, unrealistic expectations = disapointment.
People these days really need to take a look in the mirror, you can't demand five star treatment, without five star prices, and no, $ 50 for a game is not five star pricing.
That analogy doesn't makes any sense at all. Most sub mmo's cost roughly the same amount but the differnces in quality are vast. The quality of the game has absolute nothing to do with how much you spent on it.
I agree that for launch people were expecting too much in regards to space combat but then again it's Biowares own fault. If they didn't have the time a resources to do it properly at launch then they should of waited later on until they did. Then you have Biowares minimalistic PR. You can't say Bioware is not at least partially at fault for this mess.
I don't think "everyone" is expecting this game to be anything like SWG, at least anyone who reads about it for 10 minutes..
For me personally, I've read a little about the PvP, from what I gather, its battlegrounds, and some open pvp, somewhat bland but ok..
Grouping, some, but...not so much, bland but ok...(With that in mind, I hate raiding...)
Cut scenes and story, a nice addition, but its really not even in the top 5 things i look for in an MMO, and thats being generous.
We get the word of space combat, folks (obvioulsy) get excited.. then we here its on "rails", bland but ok...
In my worthless opinion, with 100+ million dollar price tag, theres a lot of bland in there. Granted theres a lot of info still to come i'm sure, but with the items that Bioware has released so far, color me unimpressed.
Seems others feel the same way, so here we are at a message board dedicated to said MMO. Folks expectations will be brought up, and then speculation will ensue, what else would you like folks to talk about?
Because rail shooters are fun. Star Wars Arcade was fun. It is possible to have fun outside the -rpg genre. It's ridiculous to dismiss this element of the game as "half-assed" simply because it's pulling from another genre, and is equally silly to suggest that it's being done "improperly" for that same reason.
The flaw I'm seeing in most arguments here centers around the suggestion that depth of gameplay is the only consideration they ought to have made when implementing space combat, and that such can only be reasonably attained with the well-executed application of RPG elements. It's not like Bioware has tricked their audience - they announced that space combat would be in, but would not be the content focus ground combat was. How anyone extrapolates from that first announcement, "SPACE COMBAT IS IN AND ITS GOING TO BE HUGELY DETAILED AND RICH AND EXCITING AND ALMOST A GAME UNTO ITSELF" is beyond me. That the announcement of space combat potentially being a rail shooter somehow disqualifies it from attaining those qualifiers is equally absurd. I, personally, am pleased with the developers decision and am fairly excited about the potential modifiers they could throw into the on-rails mix.
In the end, you are still receiving all the depth of content originally promised. You are still receiving the same MMO you've been promised. You are also, at no additional cost or obligation, receiving a rail shooter a'la Star Wars Trilogy Arcade (anyone who never poured quarters into this while waiting on a movie to kick off in theaters is missing out). Don't yell at your waitress for bringing you free dessert.
The MMO community at large has an alarming tendency to become fatalistic babies at the drop of.. anything. It's got to be hard for developers to take their potential communities seriously at times.
FROWNYFACE
Everyone has mixed feelings about this, but eh... I'm not so sure on the "mini-game" thing, but this game does look very promising. I'm sure, it will have something for everyone, but no one should have extremely high expectations for a game, unless they want to see them fail. Looks promising so far on a positive note.
Who said this won't be perfect after all we know what is right
And the sounds of bodies clashing is enough to make them cry.
You know this cannot be perfect even when it is feeling right.
And the sound of bodies crashing echo through the night.
Yep!!!!If anyone says they won't play eve because it isn't a twitch game they can wait on BP or Jge both are twitch space mmos and will be out before TOR.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Isnt it better if they focus on one thing first like ground combat and ground quests and add real space combat later well atleast i think its better they do that instead of having 10 DVD's to install and tons of bugs just to get everthing in it at once so im happy that they dont do more in space for now i have no doubts that they will add more space as the years go.
I agree.
From everything we have seen and heard it is obvious that SWTOR will be nothing like SWG. It will be a great deal inferior in terms of experience, challenge and enjoyable complexity.
I even have the horrible sinking feeling that it may be worse than SWG NGE. I never dreamed I would say that. So sad.
I don't know where ANYONE is getting that BioWare didn't have the time or resources to make a rewarding space combat feature. The fact is, BioWare created this type of shooter because they felt it meshes with the game.
NO its not a flight simulator, its not supposed to be. They specifically went away from that design because they wanted to focus on the core gameplay. They were hinting at this from months away with the developer blog stating the pitfalls of making the two entirely separate gameplay styles. We aren't going to have two games here, they are looking for an entire gameplay experience, not a star wars flight simulator MMO and then a star wars BioWare MMO.
The only person at fault for this "mess" is the guy who decided to raise their expectations to an unfounded degree. If people are looking for JTL or X-wing vs Tie Fighter, then they are in luck, because those games already exist, so they can go play them now, and let BioWare finish their vision of what they want their game to play like.
On a side note, Rogue Squadron was a good game.
People shouldn't let their expectations get to the point where I think most of the people complaining are. There are limits in everything, EVERYTHING. Though you may choose not to acknowledge it, life isn't fair. Take that lesson into games as well. I understand that people are going to hear what they want to hear, however, when they announced space combat, they didn't say a rich and in-depth space sim experience, did they? I miss that part? I saw the announcement and nowhere did I hear that come out.
As someone pointed out earlier, if it came down to having two average parts of the game or having a great land and average space, I'll take the second one. Space was always a secondary part of Star Wars in my opinion.
I agree:
1. A Space-shooter MMO is another sci-fi sub-genre altogether at this time in MMO's creation. This niche does not seem to be very full but TOR is in no way ever going to be able to fill it by adding a "space combat" feature! (See Blackstar by Spacetime Studios MMO on yutube - not developed, for an interesting attempt at this).
2. The "on-rails" space combat is likely to be still very befitting and successful inclusion to the overall game with a lot of TOR players, I'm guessing, when it finally comes out, adding just another facet to the game.
3. Turning a small disappointment in expectation of one feature of this game into a global catastrophe for the game/company is not realistic is obvious enough. It could be a load of old... but the game is still moving in a very promising direction whether you are going to try it or not.
4. Good scoop btw whoever dug this one up.
In summary Space-Combat felt like a "killer app" and so for it to be confirmed as less than a "true Space-MMO experience" that's much less than a lot of people want. But I think it will turn out be good when the game is out, just not a full MMO title inside the TOR one! ; )
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Except the vast majority of defenders over at the swtor official forums are saying that's peobably the reason. People are moaning because it seems highly likely that the game will have little to no depth. That's all fair and good but the fact that Bioware didn't make that fact crystal clear the second they mentioned the feature is why Bioware is at least partly at fault here.
What they said could have been interpretated a thousand different ways. You can't blame peoples expectations when the developer made such a vague statement. Sure people should have known better but with what they said it's was easily predictable to see the possible misconceptions. Either Bioware was seriously incompetant or more than likely they knew exactly what they were doing when they made that annoucement. Either way the misconceptions or at least partly Biowares fault.