General: Creativity. Where is it?

SBFord

In Her Opinion, Angie Webb thinks that creativity is a bit lacking in some of today's MMOs. Angie goes through the creative process and discusses ways to make MMOs more interesting and original. For instance: If you're designing new monsters, take a trip to the zoo. See what else Angie recommends to give today's MMOs a fresh creative look.

But, being a creative video-game designer should not mean your homework stops when you leave your computer. Games these days need to be original, and originality is not going to come from creating games that are duplicates of others. Watching what everyone else has done is simply going to have you “recreating” instead of innovating.

Read Angie Webb: In Her Opinion.

Mrbloodworth

Your eyeys are shut mis webb, like most users of this site. If its not made by the top 5 it dosnt count right?

http://www.endofnations.com

http://universe.lego.com/

http://www.globalagendagame.com/

http://apb.com

http://playmyworld.com/

http://www.battlegroundeurope.com/

http://www.wurmonline.com/

http://world.needforspeed.com/

http://www.dawntide.net/

http://www.ryzom.com/en/mmorpg-rpg-mmo-ryzom_ring.html

http://www.faceofmankind.com/

http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/

http://www.minecraft.net/

I believe your lecture article is a bit pretentious and does nothing but feed the idea that there is no work involved even in the creation of "clone" titles. The point you make and advice are low hanging fruit anyone here could have written and, believe it or not, are already standard practice in most development houses. You ignore all the talent experience and skill that goes into the art, design and coding of them, even if they are based of contemporary titles.



Lastly, you seem to completely ignore the fact that most titles do not innovate because players do not want innovation. Sure, some here may say “I want innovation” yet will be the very first to complain that new game “B” does not have feature “X” of title “C” that has been out for a decade.



Proof that the majority (MMORPG.com is not the majority) do not necessarily want innovation or creativity is the simply fact that the most successful titles are slight improvement on predecessors, not radical advancements.



Case in point, when Turbine redefined the GUI for MMO’s with AC2, very few MMO’s to this day do NOT use it, even the ones that are bran new use it. Why? Its one part refinement, its also one part adaptable and comfortable by players and the expectance that a MMO GUI be counterparty in looks, use and function.



When you ask for innovation and creativity, you need to look at players an what they want first.

 

Currently, what they want is more DIKU clones. They want recognizable orcs elves and mages. They want to kill 10 rats.

 

Palebane

Great article. It seems like most of the creativity is coming from the business end of MMORGPs these days rather than the game play. Also, it seems like players' creativity sides more with how to exploit the system rather than fostering a vibrant community. Just a couple observations I had, inspired by your article.

Zace

But creativity shouldnt just stop at what you see!  I really wouldnt want to see odd creature hybrids in evert game, however I do think that behaviours could be modelled better.  Im waiting to see a MMO with a fully realised daily routine, time and motion study, to be implemented.

BUT I do aggree, we need more creative thinking. I grew up as a developer and sure a programmer can do loads, but its the analyst who says what will happen, rather than the coder.  Design documents etc are a necessary evil if the program is ever to be modified, without proper documentation then any amendments to the codecase can really screw things up if not properly checked out.

     (yes I do miss development sometimes)

PyrateLV

"they want pioneers who can think outside the box and be innovative."

 

No they dont, otherwise youre article would be moot as we would have innovative games.

Companies want Cogs. They only want what will make thier Corporate Machine run.

They may tell you they are hiring you because you "think outside the box and are innovative", but what they really want is for you to sit in your cubicle, shut up and do what you are told to do.

Ceridith

The creativity in MMOs died when the design philosophy became about how to 'hook' players with flashy gimmicks (high end graphics, voice overs, etc), accessibility, and then keep them playing and paying through grindfests.

MMOs used to be about the idea of creating a virtual world for players to be apart of. Every new MMO that ignores this idea is simply going to feel like the same old rehashed grindfest with new graphics, because they will simply lack the "soul" that old MMOs had.

Mrbloodworth

I think the thing that strikes me most about this article is that it paint "developers" as some sort of Borg that are chained to cubicles. It completely ignores that a developer is a collection of individuals that all bring there own skill sets, and process of creative thought.



Many game houses supply employees with “field trips”, games or even mandatory interoffice game play sessions. Not to mention every developer players there most direct competitor’s games.



To lump individuals together likes this is a mischaracterization IMO. Many game artists study the living breathing world, including animals; this would be why a wolf is a wolf across many games. But things like trolls and orcs all have rooted expectations so are similar in delivery. Not to mention, player expectations, Orcs are Orcs, Orcs are not unicorns.



I request you do a follow-up story where you interview INDIVIDUIALS about company culture, activities and practices outside of the defined job role that the developer uses to keep people fresh, I bet you will find the things you listed are not only standard, but in some cases mandatory.

 

MumboJumbo

I really enjoyed reading this article. Sometimes it's damn good to be reminded about creativity and it's importance in not just games but all aspects of life (esp. work!).

There is tremendous art/craftsmanship in various mmo's eg artwork, music and storytelling and game design/code etc.

But I think the creativity in MMO's used to come more from the designers-driven than the current market-driven. That's the catch. It's very familiar in books (celeb biographies) and music (manufactured stars) sales and now mmo sales.

I'd certainly like to see more risky mmo's being made, exploring the possibilities with mmo communities being formed.

Meltdown

Nice article, although I would rather see developers focus on creating worlds where the player feels creative, rather than trying so hard to be creative themselves. This starts to bridge the gap between traditional, successful MMORPGs and the current trend of social gaming. Where really thinking about the successful trends in both genres usually those that allow for players to be creative. Some call it sandbox, but you don't have to build an entire city with your hands to be creative. Because of these trends I currently have high hopes for games like Lego Universe that exploits a person's need to be creative and unique... and being unique goes a long way in online games these days.

ArmaniDemon

Seems like this article stems from a lot of ignorance regarding the creative process of game developers. Lack of imagination isn't the problem. Corporate suits wanting to adhere to the easy formula for guaranteed profit is.

Cite some examples, go out there and interview some people instead of quoting entry level, community college manuals. 

Scot

We have had a lot about creativity and innovation on this site, but this thread and its replies has been one of the most interesting I have seen. I don’t agree with Mrbloodworth that Miss Webb’s article is too sweeping, you have to make some generalisations. But I do agree with him that some interviews (maybe anonymous ones if need be) of actual designers and their views on this issue would be the perfect follow up.

 

Most of the departures we see from WoW format are from the minnows in the gaming world, trying to find their niche. The big guns are the only ones with the money and time to try to do ‘WoW plus’. And those same software houses have the strongest corporate philosophy, which will always put a sure buck before an innovative one.

 

When you want to cut costs as corporate culture always does, ‘talent’ is often on the sharp end. Do you really need someone with writing credentials to write quests? Do developers really need RPG experience for a MMO, won’t any designer with game experience do?

 

But there has been a drift since MMO’s began from companies started by keen designers and fans to companies taken over by suits. The corporate ethos must reign supreme and you even get people like the EA CEO crowing about the fact that designers now think about costing all the time. In that culture, innovation and creativity are always going to be second best.

 

So the smaller companies may be where the future lies, after all when they started MMO’s were the minnows, before they got snapped up into EA, Times Warner and so on.

maplestone

Why not simply commission "food for thought" documents from the wilderness?  There are huge numbers of creative minds out here  who are not actually in the industry and would come at the question of game design from outside the traditional ruts but don't have the resources or contacts to make a pitch.

Meltdown

Originally posted by maplestone

Why not simply commission "food for thought" documents from the wilderness?  There are huge numbers of creative minds out here  who are not actually in the industry and would come at the question of game design from outside the traditional ruts but don't have the resources or contacts to make a pitch.

I would love to see a company take some of the ideas on the boards here seriously. It may be difficult to dig through the trash to find that one idea that they could base a game off of, but well worth it in the end. Maybe the site just needs a more formal method to submit ideas, maybe have people vote on them, etc. But this is more an end-user site than a developer site... but I still think it would be cool

Bob_Blawblaw

Interesting article with a lot of very good points (that I agree with mostly).

But, the truly grand question regarding creativity in relation to all the 'clones' out there has very little to do with the creativity of the designers themselves. It comes down to business (as pointed out in this thread already). Nothing more, nothing less.

The shareholders want whatever WoW is eating.

"The Marketing Department" - Creativity stops here.

 

So in defense of pretty much all of the game designers I know (and I know quite a few), it's not necessarily their fault. I've never met a designer that wanted to clone anything. The orders to do so come from above.

NightCloak

None of the articles on MMORPG.com really cite sources or give real examples.

None of the articles here really contain lots of meat thats rooted very deeply in much of anything.

Really I read the articles as just entertainment. I don't expect much true insight or great journalism. I really expect these articles to be more of musings from ones mind or a blog. Too many people take them too seriously and try to get more out of them than I think they were even intended for.

 

I wont deny that I do enjoy reading the articles though.

Ozmodan

Nice Bloodworth, listing a host of games, of which a good portion are not MMO's, does not support your argument very well.

Granted there is a lot of creativity in this industry, just we don't see much of it.  So many of these games never make it to fruition or have flawed marketing and just never entice enough players to try it.  Take Spellborn for example, it had some innovative ideas that just needed work, a game with issues does not keep players unless someone is fixing them.

I personally don't think people on this site want more of the same.  Unfortunately I don't see any of the current big players in the market taking a chance on that.  I think there are some, like 38 Studios, that are not afraid to try.  We are just going to be patient while the genre evolves and see what some of these newer studios come out with.  

I am excited with what is to come, maybe it will shake some of these bigger studios out of the rut they find themselves in.

SnarlingWolf

Several things are wrong with this article, several people have already pointed that out as well.

 

Yes video game designers do have to play lots of video games. They need to see what ideas have worked and which ones haven't, which UIs are intuative and which ones are aggrivating. Just because you play other video games does not mean you will clone them, it means you will learn from them. A good idea is a good idea no matter where it comes from. Studios can learn from each other without cloning games.

 

Plenty of games have made very different MMOs, and guess what? They've typically all failed. The problem isn't developers lacking creativity, it is players wanting more of the same and less that is different. Players tend to say "I want a game like the one I am playing but with this 1 feature that I find aggrivating changed", so they try clones not new ideas.

 

This article is just plain wrong all around. When the money is made by making more of the same, that is what companies want to make, more of the same.

Mrbloodworth

 

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Originally posted by Ozmodan
Nice Bloodworth, listing a host of games, of which a good portion are not MMO's, does not support your argument very well.

---

They are all MMG.

---

Originally posted by Ozmodan
I personally don't think people on this site want more of the same.  Unfortunately I don't see any of the current big players in the market taking a chance on that.

---

Like I said, if its not the big 5, it doesn't count right? Also, 38 studios is not doing anything, its pure contemporary DIKU.
I think your post proved my points more than anything.

orionite

Totally agree with MrBloodworth. The article trys to paint the picture of the unimaginative game developer, but it's a damn business. Look at what happens to "innovative" MMO's. Spellborn was mentioned, Tabula Rasa and all the ones mentioned in the first comment: They die. Maybe not right away, but eventually they do.

It costs a fortune to develop large scale software (including games), and revenue only rolls in at the very end. So, in order to secure funding for a game you hedge your bets: Find something close to an existing product that works and add some differentiators. Bam, there you go. Another "clone". Try and do something different and people start screaming bloody murder because it isn't like EQ, Doom, Dune2, Pitfall, or any other accepted classic and how dare these stupid game companies expect me to learn something new.

Yamota

Creativity is lost in modern MMOs. It was actually lost when WoW became a huge success and devs realised that they can make big bucks, not by being creative or innovative, but rather take a simple formula and rehash it over and over again.

Companies like Cryptic are an excellent example of that. And what is left are obscure companies like StarVault and Adventurine that has neither the resources nor the talent to develop a decent game.

Tazlor

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Several things are wrong with this article, several people have already pointed that out as well.

 

Yes video game designers do have to play lots of video games. They need to see what ideas have worked and which ones haven't, which UIs are intuative and which ones are aggrivating. Just because you play other video games does not mean you will clone them, it means you will learn from them. A good idea is a good idea no matter where it comes from. Studios can learn from each other without cloning games.

 

Plenty of games have made very different MMOs, and guess what? They've typically all failed. The problem isn't developers lacking creativity, it is players wanting more of the same and less that is different. Players tend to say "I want a game like the one I am playing but with this 1 feature that I find aggrivating changed", so they try clones not new ideas.

 

This article is just plain wrong all around. When the money is made by making more of the same, that is what companies want to make, more of the same.

 

this^^^  i couldn't have said it better.

shabazzster

Thank you so much, been looking for some diversity for sure.

 

http://web.me.com/khalil12/Omnisystem_93/Home.html

ferndip

We wont ever see true innovation in the game industry untill such time that we as a society are no longer driven by capitalism.

XoloX

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

(...)

(....) most titles do not innovate because players do not want innovation. 

(...)

 

 This. Very much.

One might even add that innovation equals new things, new things lead to the need to learn using them and learning to use new things would require a certain individual effort, commonly known as thinking. Which is increasingly unpopular.

This should better be whispered only, though... Ooops...

Thanks for the list, btw... Saves me to point at certain innovate MMOs like Ryzom, that almost all failed miserably in their economic context. Which again leads to the first sentences of my post. Ooops.

Well, just ignore this. Most will anyway

boincman

Creativity doesn't pay these days.

lethys

The real problem is that gamers don't make the executive decisions, and these forums are never taken seriously by the EA's and Activision's of the world.