If you guys didn't have f2p games to bash and hate and bitch about, then this website would primarily turn into another cookiecutter forum that rotates around hating WoW.
You have to spread around your negativity and blind hatred of things, and not let it get too focused, or you'll get bored waaay too quickly.
New f2p games give you something different to hate and troll. They're the variety and spice of life around here.
Is it an independent company? Haha! Excellent. Now you can hate it for 'not' being like WoW.
Is it a WoW clone? Better still! Now you can gloat and jerk each other off as you guffaw and copy-paste the same thing you said about the last 5 clones that 'died'.
Is it a 'known' company trying something different? Pah! You snort and brush the dorito crumbs off of your shirt as you viciously attack them for doing the same exact thing as the last game, even though you haven't even seen the screenshots of this new game yet.
This is why I love you all, and keep coming back here
Trolling is an artform, and you all keep striving so hard to be the #1 artist!
Repeat the same propaganda enough times it then becomes fact.
Yea, who brainwashed thoose who hate F2P into thinking that monthly sub should be the only way to play MMOs?
Its funny to see so many people hate something but cant give a reason why they dont like it!
You want reasons? They've been stated many times.
Games are tailored to make money from the sales, not from making a great game. When the choices are made to either improve the game play or to make more money, you can bet which one it'll be. Incentives of developers in the wrong place.
Exactly. This is the critical flaw in the F2P model.
Because of the way they market, there first concern is getting large amounts of cash from a small minority of gamers. Gamers who irrationally spend more money than the average well-budgeted gamer may spend on a game, therefore, the Devs do not have to build a solid game to attract a large group of rational spending people...
When so many times discussions rise about how good/bad are F2P and then hordes fo F2P fanboys rise to their back foots and yell save our world from F2P haters (yes, hate F2P and B4W etc is rght word for me) then I see time is ready to emerge on surface some new website like p2pmmo.com or so. So much less flamewars and insults. I agree who feels himself fine buying a Win, cheating the game etc. - let they fee fine in their cave. We P2Pers sit around our campfire in our cave. Both tribes are happy. But now this is like I go to Xcian web to hail Satan or vice versa.
Even MMORPG.com can make his start page two-stepped: after initial welcome screen there is two buttons - P2P and F2P.
And both have their rules of habit. Braking them = warning, braking many times = ban. I myself never will go then to F2P to blame them in cheating cuz I know what they are.
When so many times discussions rise about how good/bad are F2P and then hordes fo F2P fanboys rise to their back foots and yell save our world from F2P haters (yes, hate F2P and B4W etc is rght word for me) then I see time is ready to emerge on surface some new website like p2pmmo.com or so. So much less flamewars and insults. I agree who feels himself fine buying a Win, cheating the game etc. - let they fee fine in their cave. We P2Pers sit around our campfire in our cave. Both tribes are happy. But now this is like I go to Xcian web to hail Satan or vice versa.
Even MMORPG.com can make his start page two-stepped: after initial welcome screen there is two buttons - P2P and F2P.
And both have their rules of habit. Braking them = warning, braking many times = ban. I myself never will go then to F2P to blame them in cheating cuz I know what they are.
See.. This is what I dont get.. Mob mentality in the mmo scene.. "We, WoW players..", "We P2Pers.."
We all like MMO's right? Instead of working to find common ground, we look to find ways to seperate ourselves to find basis for arguments..
I guess its just human nature, but it makes no sense why people are asking for segregated forums (lol, yeah..) for a simple difference such as a game being free to play versus a game thats pay to play.. This has to be the dorkiest gang related stuff I have ever seen.. Play your games people.. Play them and like them..
When so many times discussions rise about how good/bad are F2P and then hordes fo F2P fanboys rise to their back foots and yell save our world from F2P haters (yes, hate F2P and B4W etc is rght word for me) then I see time is ready to emerge on surface some new website like p2pmmo.com or so. So much less flamewars and insults. I agree who feels himself fine buying a Win, cheating the game etc. - let they fee fine in their cave. We P2Pers sit around our campfire in our cave. Both tribes are happy. But now this is like I go to Xcian web to hail Satan or vice versa.
Even MMORPG.com can make his start page two-stepped: after initial welcome screen there is two buttons - P2P and F2P.
And both have their rules of habit. Braking them = warning, braking many times = ban. I myself never will go then to F2P to blame them in cheating cuz I know what they are.
See.. This is what I dont get.. Mob mentality in the mmo scene.. "We, WoW players..", "We P2Pers.."
We all like MMO's right? Instead of working to find common ground, we look to find ways to seperate ourselves to find basis for arguments.. NOOOOO! I like MMOs, P2P MMOs & I HATE F2Ps til end. If there stay no more P2P and all are dumb-downed cheating P4W BS then I leave at all MMO scene and play my D&D tabletops with my friends who all leave that F2P BS and who are total braveheart F2P HATERS too.
I guess its just human nature, but it makes no sense why people are asking for segregated forums (lol, yeah..) for a simple difference such as a game being free to play versus a game thats pay to play.. This has to be the dorkiest gang related stuff I have ever seen.. Play your games people.. Play them and like them..
Sometimes segragation is good. Image one muslim webpage where every 5 minutes comes some Xcian to write how great is christianity, how good is jesus das good - and soon we get some more 9-11
I dont get it. These always end up with the common consensus that the western players dont like it, dont want it and stfu about it. Yet these articles keep coming. I'm seriously edging on the side of believing the writers are taking an 'incentive' to talk about it in an positive light to change the communities mind.
Has anyone noticed this or am I just being a tin foil hat wearer?
No I for one remember MMORPG has had a special series on F2P games for well over a year, the reason it stands out in your mind more now is because of Turbine moving LOTRO free to play after the success of DDO. F2P is not the standard model of game I play so I didn't used to read the articles but I assure you they were there and in my eyes are no more prevelant on this site now than they ever were just more people talking about it which bumps it up.
As for my opinion on the matter? You guys sound like scientists debating a disproven theory because any single game on the market has the potential to be free to play if the devs don't charge you does that make the game suck? No design makes a game suck I've played a few f2p games that were fun and while I've never indulged myself I hear that certain games get "private" servers that I would assume people are also not paying for.
The bottom line to me is in alot of peoples opinions as can be seen just by the tone of conversation about mmo's is that most pay to play mmo's suck that's why while we may try tons of them we only wind up staying with one or two and most free to play mmo's will suck to the average mmo player it's about finding our own diamond in the coal no matter what model of game one chooses to play.
I live firmly in the West and I wish you folks would stop talking all that we crap because I don't think "we" are as firmly behind you as some of you seem to believe rather smuggly. I think in general "we" like the games we like and will play those games regardless of if they adopt a hybrid free to play model or stay premium monthly sub fee based. "We" will spend the money "we" can afford to for what "we" want. The standard f2p hybrid model game is just not designed in ways that westerners like to play therefore they aren't that popular here. But Turbine is leading a charge that I think is going to make alot of you rethink your "we's".
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
When so many times discussions rise about how good/bad are F2P and then hordes fo F2P fanboys rise to their back foots and yell save our world from F2P haters (yes, hate F2P and B4W etc is rght word for me) then I see time is ready to emerge on surface some new website like p2pmmo.com or so. So much less flamewars and insults. I agree who feels himself fine buying a Win, cheating the game etc. - let they fee fine in their cave. We P2Pers sit around our campfire in our cave. Both tribes are happy. But now this is like I go to Xcian web to hail Satan or vice versa.
Even MMORPG.com can make his start page two-stepped: after initial welcome screen there is two buttons - P2P and F2P.
And both have their rules of habit. Braking them = warning, braking many times = ban. I myself never will go then to F2P to blame them in cheating cuz I know what they are.
See.. This is what I dont get.. Mob mentality in the mmo scene.. "We, WoW players..", "We P2Pers.."
We all like MMO's right? Instead of working to find common ground, we look to find ways to seperate ourselves to find basis for arguments.. NOOOOO! I like MMOs, P2P MMOs & I HATE F2Ps til end. If there stay no more P2P and all are dumb-downed cheating P4W BS then I leave at all MMO scene and play my D&D tabletops with my friends who all leave that F2P BS and who are total braveheart F2P HATERS too.
I guess its just human nature, but it makes no sense why people are asking for segregated forums (lol, yeah..) for a simple difference such as a game being free to play versus a game thats pay to play.. This has to be the dorkiest gang related stuff I have ever seen.. Play your games people.. Play them and like them..
Sometimes segragation is good. Image one muslim webpage where every 5 minutes comes some Xcian to write how great is christianity, how good is jesus das good - and soon we get some more 9-11
The only problem with your point is we aren't talking about religion here we are talking about a hobby a pixelated one. If you want an analogy that may actually fit better it would be like an NBA player standing in opposition of CBA players it's all basketball who cares!? Or how about rockers start forum bashing jazz musicians?
He made a really good point half the mmo community does this (hence my sig that I've had for a few months now) there always seems to have to be some kind of line in the sand drawn. Everything is not a reason for a declaration of war people. And that certainly includes this debate that rages about whether f2p games are from the anti christ or not. The worse part of this entire debate is half the people who talk this irrational negative talk about f2p games were themselves shafted by mmo companies like SOE with the SWG debacle, Funcom with the launch of both Anarchy and Age Of Conan, and to hear them tell it WAR,STO and the list goes on.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
First F2P games was about Pay 2 Win, so that left a bad taste on everyone's mouth (even if they never tried it). Over time F2P games evolved to selling convenience items, then they evolved again to mandatory items and finally now we are seeing Pay for anything type of games that has quests, mounts, items, whole zones and classes.
Notion of F2P is ridiculous at best. Current F2P games almost always have some mandatory item that makes the infinitely more pleasurable and easier. You're always gonna end up buying that item for each character. Same will happen with Quests (LotRO), Skills (EQ2), Items (Both LotRO and EQ2).
When you play P2P games, whole world is available to you, no restrictions, no mandatory items. After initial box price all you have to pay is $15 a month. Everything is available from vanity items to all quests. You can decide what you want to do and if you got bored, go for something else.
You can't even get a half a decent meal for $15 around here, thats extremely good value for full access. Couple that with the fact that P2P games have higher quality and continued updates, I'm baffled why someone would choose F2P, you practically end up pay more for lower quality.
See.. This is what I dont get.. Mob mentality in the mmo scene.. "We, WoW players..", "We P2Pers.."
We all like MMO's right? Instead of working to find common ground, we look to find ways to seperate ourselves to find basis for arguments..
I guess its just human nature, but it makes no sense why people are asking for segregated forums (lol, yeah..) for a simple difference such as a game being free to play versus a game thats pay to play.. This has to be the dorkiest gang related stuff I have ever seen.. Play your games people.. Play them and like them..
Hmmm. Let's see if my sophmore college philosophy course can come to help here.
question: why does an indian tribe have absolutely no problem slaughtering another indian tribe but deals extremely swiftly and harshly to internal murder? Both tribes are indians, what's the difference?
fast forward to senior year comparative studies. Concept: Binary opposites.
we identify ourselves in relation to others. We find our place in society based on these binary opposites. We look at someone and think "he, is not I because...". The more we differentiate, the more people we weed out, the more we narrow down the "us" from "them", the closer we are to zeroing in on "just me"...and finding ourselves and our place in society.
In roleplaying community, I personally, and probably many others struggle strongly to find their place. not for themselves but for their characters. For example me in EVE. If i join a fleet and shots are fired, I'll be first ship to blow up. So my spot is kinda in the back of the group, only going when I can easily replace my ship and I know and accept I'm already dead. Not Fleet Captain calling shots, but the guy asking where the jump bridge is and if someone can take me there.
So to better find their place for their characters in mmo communities, players simply begin narrowing things down. F2p vs p2P. pvp vs pve. rp vs non-rp. Then...hardcore vs casual. endgame vs beginner max level. tank vs healer vs dps. class_1 vs class_2 vs class_3. cookie-cutter spec vs almost-cookiecutter spec. race-1 vs race_2. guild_1 vs _guild_2.
^ above not placed in order. but an example. When you "him not me because..." analyze through all these filters you are pretty much nearly done to having found your place in relation to others.
why is finding your place in relation to others important? in mmo worlds, as well as in real world, the "others" are the only thing that can define "you". For example you level from 11 to 12. Is it good? did you gain strength and survivability? well everyone is 60+ so...nothing really changed. it's not going +1 level that matters, it's being "about as good as the majority" or "above the majority" or even "below the majority but close enough" that matters.
I just wrote a book. I appologise. If you skipped through the end, read the first 2 paragraphs and you got the message.
I don't think anyone is confused on the why but the how. If you don't like free to play just don't play them there is no reason to need to stomp the concept into the ground. Maybe your analogy works doubly in that those same Indian tribes that were so quick to slaughter each other are not prominent anymore and that goes the same for any small group that you could put in that example ask Hitler and the Nazis how living to destroy worked out.
Again though I just find a bit of discomfort in the extreme examples you guys keep using to describe a far more simplistic debate and whether there is a need for it or not. We are not really talking about a person's life here we are talking about a hobby and how it's delivered. And why people feel that since they have a "bad feeling" about it that we as a community should not even have the option of seeing what it turns out like.
The mmo marketplace is a growth market and the growth isn't coming from the dinosaurs who cling to sentiments like this who actually think that pay to play in some way shape or form determines what a game plays like or offers or even costs in the long run. I assure you I've been playing video games more like mmo's for a flat one time fee much longer than you guys have been paying monthly for your games and as such I can tell you this argument makes no sense.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I dont get it. These always end up with the common consensus that the western players dont like it, dont want it and stfu about it. Yet these articles keep coming. I'm seriously edging on the side of believing the writers are taking an 'incentive' to talk about it in an positive light to change the communities mind.
Has anyone noticed this or am I just being a tin foil hat wearer?
This site is very fair with its articles and reviews either FTP or not , I have never seen any example of what you are implying ...
its seems they are damned if they do and Damned if they dont by certain members of this community ... " sigh "
I have, and i quote:
"Now that we know who is playing, we run into the biggest fallacy regarding F2P -- that of the Über item. I’m sure you’ve heard/read this: “I’m never going to play a F2P game because other players can just buy awesome Über gear… I worked for my gear”. You see this type of comment on forums a lot. What is interesting though is that it’s simply not true.
I can’t think of a single F2P MMO (although I’m sure there are some) that allows players to buy awesome gear with real money. And I can think of dozens that don’t. These elusive Über items are exactly that – extremely elusive. Elusive to the point of virtually not existing."
seriously, has been Justin Webb fired yet? If this isnt a clear proof of the so called "back-room bribes" that Admin talked about in page 1, i dont know what it is.
Hey Justin, I can give you a list of 100 F2P games. I challenge you to find 10 of them that dont offer superb gear enhancements thru their cash shop, and put high spenders on a godlike status compared to freeloaders.
edit: I think I set the bar unfairly high. I challenge you to find 3.
The vast majority of free to play games do not sell "uber gear".
Originally posted by Robokapp
F2P's have risen and fell already from attention span of players who have already formed an opinion.
now the F2P industry is just kicking and screaming, that's all.
If we ignore it long enough it'll go back to Korea for good. If we keep buying Victory Potions, it'll stay longer.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Free to play is now more popular than ever before. There are more people playing free to play games than ever before and there are more free to play games available than ever before.
It used to be that only low budget MMORPGs were free to play. Nowadays, even high budget MMORPGs are using the free to play model and more and more western developers adapt this model.
I don't mind "Pay to go Faster" or "Pay to have silly costumes". The ones that do bug me are "Pay to Win".
Honestly I have to ask you...What F2P games have you played? I mean don't get me wrong, I don't play F2P games much, but that's because they are usually bad graphics, buggy, lazy/unfinished developing, lack of content, etc...But in most of the ones I played people "paying to win" wasn't ever obvious to me, many F2P games only allow you to buy vanity items, side grade stuff and things like that...I mean to compare to WoW not many F2P games are going to allow you to go out and buy a top tier raiding set or something like that.
I don't mind "Pay to go Faster" or "Pay to have silly costumes". The ones that do bug me are "Pay to Win".
Honestly I have to ask you...What F2P games have you played? I mean don't get me wrong, I don't play F2P games much, but that's because they are usually bad graphics, buggy, lazy/unfinished developing, lack of content, etc...But in most of the ones I played people "paying to win" wasn't ever obvious to me, many F2P games only allow you to buy vanity items, side grade stuff and things like that...I mean to compare to WoW not many F2P games are going to allow you to go out and buy a top tier raiding set or something like that.
Runes of Magic has a system where if you want to get the best loot, you have purchase "blank runestones" to get rid of useless stats. So basically you are paying to win as these stats does matter, especially in PvP. They won't sell you the raid loot, but they get pretty damn close to it.
Comments
THIS.
End thread.
Exactly. This is the critical flaw in the F2P model.
Because of the way they market, there first concern is getting large amounts of cash from a small minority of gamers. Gamers who irrationally spend more money than the average well-budgeted gamer may spend on a game, therefore, the Devs do not have to build a solid game to attract a large group of rational spending people...
When so many times discussions rise about how good/bad are F2P and then hordes fo F2P fanboys rise to their back foots and yell save our world from F2P haters (yes, hate F2P and B4W etc is rght word for me) then I see time is ready to emerge on surface some new website like p2pmmo.com or so. So much less flamewars and insults. I agree who feels himself fine buying a Win, cheating the game etc. - let they fee fine in their cave. We P2Pers sit around our campfire in our cave. Both tribes are happy. But now this is like I go to Xcian web to hail Satan or vice versa.
Even MMORPG.com can make his start page two-stepped: after initial welcome screen there is two buttons - P2P and F2P.
And both have their rules of habit. Braking them = warning, braking many times = ban. I myself never will go then to F2P to blame them in cheating cuz I know what they are.
See.. This is what I dont get.. Mob mentality in the mmo scene.. "We, WoW players..", "We P2Pers.."
We all like MMO's right? Instead of working to find common ground, we look to find ways to seperate ourselves to find basis for arguments..
I guess its just human nature, but it makes no sense why people are asking for segregated forums (lol, yeah..) for a simple difference such as a game being free to play versus a game thats pay to play.. This has to be the dorkiest gang related stuff I have ever seen.. Play your games people.. Play them and like them..
mmorpg.com wants to make money too..
As for why many westerners like "f2p"? Simply because they get to play a game for free.. they don't care about anything else.
mmorpg.com is part of the industry they need to follow the wave to keep getting ads.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
No I for one remember MMORPG has had a special series on F2P games for well over a year, the reason it stands out in your mind more now is because of Turbine moving LOTRO free to play after the success of DDO. F2P is not the standard model of game I play so I didn't used to read the articles but I assure you they were there and in my eyes are no more prevelant on this site now than they ever were just more people talking about it which bumps it up.
As for my opinion on the matter? You guys sound like scientists debating a disproven theory because any single game on the market has the potential to be free to play if the devs don't charge you does that make the game suck? No design makes a game suck I've played a few f2p games that were fun and while I've never indulged myself I hear that certain games get "private" servers that I would assume people are also not paying for.
The bottom line to me is in alot of peoples opinions as can be seen just by the tone of conversation about mmo's is that most pay to play mmo's suck that's why while we may try tons of them we only wind up staying with one or two and most free to play mmo's will suck to the average mmo player it's about finding our own diamond in the coal no matter what model of game one chooses to play.
I live firmly in the West and I wish you folks would stop talking all that we crap because I don't think "we" are as firmly behind you as some of you seem to believe rather smuggly. I think in general "we" like the games we like and will play those games regardless of if they adopt a hybrid free to play model or stay premium monthly sub fee based. "We" will spend the money "we" can afford to for what "we" want. The standard f2p hybrid model game is just not designed in ways that westerners like to play therefore they aren't that popular here. But Turbine is leading a charge that I think is going to make alot of you rethink your "we's".
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
The only problem with your point is we aren't talking about religion here we are talking about a hobby a pixelated one. If you want an analogy that may actually fit better it would be like an NBA player standing in opposition of CBA players it's all basketball who cares!? Or how about rockers start forum bashing jazz musicians?
He made a really good point half the mmo community does this (hence my sig that I've had for a few months now) there always seems to have to be some kind of line in the sand drawn. Everything is not a reason for a declaration of war people. And that certainly includes this debate that rages about whether f2p games are from the anti christ or not. The worse part of this entire debate is half the people who talk this irrational negative talk about f2p games were themselves shafted by mmo companies like SOE with the SWG debacle, Funcom with the launch of both Anarchy and Age Of Conan, and to hear them tell it WAR,STO and the list goes on.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
First F2P games was about Pay 2 Win, so that left a bad taste on everyone's mouth (even if they never tried it). Over time F2P games evolved to selling convenience items, then they evolved again to mandatory items and finally now we are seeing Pay for anything type of games that has quests, mounts, items, whole zones and classes.
Notion of F2P is ridiculous at best. Current F2P games almost always have some mandatory item that makes the infinitely more pleasurable and easier. You're always gonna end up buying that item for each character. Same will happen with Quests (LotRO), Skills (EQ2), Items (Both LotRO and EQ2).
When you play P2P games, whole world is available to you, no restrictions, no mandatory items. After initial box price all you have to pay is $15 a month. Everything is available from vanity items to all quests. You can decide what you want to do and if you got bored, go for something else.
You can't even get a half a decent meal for $15 around here, thats extremely good value for full access. Couple that with the fact that P2P games have higher quality and continued updates, I'm baffled why someone would choose F2P, you practically end up pay more for lower quality.
I don't think anyone is confused on the why but the how. If you don't like free to play just don't play them there is no reason to need to stomp the concept into the ground. Maybe your analogy works doubly in that those same Indian tribes that were so quick to slaughter each other are not prominent anymore and that goes the same for any small group that you could put in that example ask Hitler and the Nazis how living to destroy worked out.
Again though I just find a bit of discomfort in the extreme examples you guys keep using to describe a far more simplistic debate and whether there is a need for it or not. We are not really talking about a person's life here we are talking about a hobby and how it's delivered. And why people feel that since they have a "bad feeling" about it that we as a community should not even have the option of seeing what it turns out like.
The mmo marketplace is a growth market and the growth isn't coming from the dinosaurs who cling to sentiments like this who actually think that pay to play in some way shape or form determines what a game plays like or offers or even costs in the long run. I assure you I've been playing video games more like mmo's for a flat one time fee much longer than you guys have been paying monthly for your games and as such I can tell you this argument makes no sense.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
The vast majority of free to play games do not sell "uber gear".
Honestly I have to ask you...What F2P games have you played? I mean don't get me wrong, I don't play F2P games much, but that's because they are usually bad graphics, buggy, lazy/unfinished developing, lack of content, etc...But in most of the ones I played people "paying to win" wasn't ever obvious to me, many F2P games only allow you to buy vanity items, side grade stuff and things like that...I mean to compare to WoW not many F2P games are going to allow you to go out and buy a top tier raiding set or something like that.
Runes of Magic has a system where if you want to get the best loot, you have purchase "blank runestones" to get rid of useless stats. So basically you are paying to win as these stats does matter, especially in PvP. They won't sell you the raid loot, but they get pretty damn close to it.