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EverQuest: Is Everquest: Next Really Necessary?
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I played EQ2 at launch. I had never played the original EQ so I didn't have any expectations and at the time I really enjoyed the game. It felt like a more polished product than WoW (which launched shortly after) and I'm fairly certain the only reason it didn't become a blockbuster with millions of subscriptions was SOE's reputation, especially when compared to the sparkling reputation Blizzard had.
The market has expanded meanwhile, SOE's reputation hasn't improved and the competition is thougher than ever, with games like Guild Wars 2, RIFT and others promising some real innovation... so I really doubt making a new EQ is a good idea. Even if they somehow manage to muster the talent needed to make a good game the number of people willing to give them a change is only getting smaller.
Actually as near as I can tell that is more or less what they did announce at their launch conference...a world that would be familiar to EQ and EQ2 players, but with great graphics. In terms of gameplay we are probably talking a fusion of the best elements from both earlier games. It may work as by the time they get to release WoW will be coming to the end of it's life and Blizzard will be prepping their next gen mmo. I personally think that in the next years several new mmorpgs will grab 500k plus subs, as WoW has sob little content patched into it, that it's players will start to drift. They drifted into WAR and AoC at launch a year or so ago, but both of those were badly designed. SOE in past few years have launched mmorpg that look polished with few issues, though free realms isn't to players tastes on this website so it gets little to no coverage...DC universe may get more...it looks polished too.The MMO genre is a dead one. There's no new ideas. There's no investors. There are however plenty of companies out there trying to speed it's demise with pay for beta's and broken promises. Once the mass of WoW players tires of the treadmill and realize they're $15 a month to be hamster they too will stop playing the genre. That will leave all these game companies fighting for 1 to 2 million players which will further stifle investment and development.
Give me a reason to play besides exp, stats and gear.... Oh and do it with a quality product.
Make a difference!
Well, they decided to start charging tax now, for some reason. My last sub fee for Everquest was $16.50.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
They've already tried to make the game like WoW, and that doesn't seem to be affecting their sub numbers much, I would assume. They could put out a great title, but it would turn out as another WoW clone if the players had anything to say about it. In my opinion, they should stick to their roots and provide a game for players who are looking for more of what the original game was about, when it was in it's prime.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
A new EQ would do well ONLY if it dedicates itself to the orginal first couple of years...due to nostalgia and folks wanting to get that feeling back of risk and lots of interaction with death having a penalty and grouping being the rule and zones (no instances) ...camping, ...hell today's games have so much solo and instances that you often never interact outside of your guild after getting in the upper levels.
A sense of epic and abilities that are real, heroic, independant of something else working first, and always work and no luck and fights that take long enough to actually use a few abilities.
Yep, a new EQ would work, but it would take some strong devs that would stick to a vision...PvE, grouping, slow leveling, and a death penalty....and real pulling! and dragons!
The problem is that the people who understand the roots of what made soe successful in their earlier years were driven out of the company. The corporate culture of soe doesn't support creative minds who are passionate about making games. Instead they value revenue driven design processes and those who are going to do what they are told. Their leadership is more concerned with creating revenue models and trying to wrap a product around that.
That is why they have so much trouble retaining talent (especially the ones their players respect) and why so much of their leadership is made up of former GMs and customer service representatives.
SOE was never a great stuido, VERANT Entertainment, was the mastermind behind EQ1 up until after the Scars of Velious expansion, when the heads of VERANT, Brad and Jeff left to secretly form Sigil, which honestly made EQ1 go down a decent amount in terms of gameplay. I am an EQ1 veteran, I played EQ2 its a decent game, would be better with a larger player base, but it lacks the luster that gave EQ1 its shine.... go back to the 200+ people raiding, go back to 1 drop per boss kill, and large spawn times, go back to meanignful gameplay, where your time mattered, because you couldnt sit there and farm everything every 5 minutes....
Charging tax for virtual goods is Illegal in most states, and countries, a subscription is NOT taxable, whether it is virtual OR physical, as the company does not pay tax to the government or state on a subscription revenue, therefore they can not charge you tax either. You should demand you $1.51 back!
I think EQ-Next is necessary if it is done right. EQ set the standard and popularized the Fantasy MMO genre even though UO came first. If SOE could create a new EQ using the best of its early games while adding some innovation, it could become a major contender again. Just off the top of my head (I'm sure that I missed some), a few examples...
From early EQ1:
The real threat of dieing by having a death penalty with teeth.
The vast expanse of zones that gave a feeling of a truely immense world (or even a large open world - see Vanguard below).
An open market where the players chose where the market places would be.
Wandering Mobs of varying levels found even in the easiest places/zones that gave the player a sense of danger no matter where you were.
General, large-scale maps with major locations are fine, but no maps showing every detail and locations of every Mob, drop, spawn, etc. so that exploration is actually an intregal part of the game.
None of the floating indicators above NPCs and Mobs giving every detail of what that NPC or Mob is there for which led players to actually have to interact with them to discover their function.
Limited fast travel options which made getting from point A to point B an adventure and kept the world populated including areas that weren't all that important simply because players had to cross it to get somewhere.
The trains - 'Nuff said.
Rares that were indeed rare and fought over.
No instances
From EQ2:
The crafting system
The absolutely awesome housing system
Collections
Swimming and underwater locations that required skill to get to.
From Vanguard:
The enormous open world.
Shipbuilding
Exclusive to EQ-Next:
Improved graphics
Ways to level without the need to grind XP, gear, and raids such as merchant classes or pure craftsmen.
More hobbies and fluff such as the fishing from EQ1 but with more depth and usefullness so that if you don't feel like killing Mobs on a particular day you could just spend the time in your fav hobby knowing that the end result is still going to benefit your character (or hurt him or her depending on what you are doing and what risks are involved).
I cut my MMO teeth on EQ1 (except for the early MUDs of the BBS era) and played EQ2 from beta. I loved both games but SOE and Smedley lost their direction and focus. In EQ2 I played on the premium Stormhammer server, better know as Legends, which had so much potential but failed miserably simply because they never followed through with what was promised. Unfortunately, even though we can hope for something great from EQ-Next and if they were to use the best from what they had, SOE's (and Smedley's) past record leaves those hopes just that - hopes, because in reality, it is very unlikely to come even close to that. So even though I believe EQ-Next is necessary, I don't believe it will be anything like what is needed or wanted.
~ Adder ~
Quick, Silent, Deadly
If they let me play an EQ1 style Bard then I certainly try it.
I completely agree that Eq3 is unnessicary especially if it going to be using the same 2004 era Eq2/WoW clone combat system with boring auto attacks and ten useless hotbars. All the big MMOs coming out in 2011 and beyond will be on next generation combat systems. By next generation combat I mean collision based action, aimed attacks, and if you aren't pushing buttons you aren't doing damage. If Eq3 comes in trying to pass off an antiquated system as a modern game it will be the biggest joke ever.
I don't think this installment has a chance of pleasing anyone.
Make it hard and challenging like the original and you'll please a small group of fans and go broke in the process catering to their niche.
Make it PVP centric like someone mentioned and it will totally turn off the above mentioned fans and again, end up appealing to a niche market.
Make it casual and become yet another WOW-clone and you fail again, because no one will ever out-WOW Blizzard and again, you'll piss off the previously two niches.
Seems like a no-win scenario especially considering how overcrowded the fantasy MMORPG market is these days.
I think they'd have to figure out a way to bring out something really new, innovative and different to really succeed, the IP alone isn't enough to carry it.
Oh wait, we're talking SOE, nevermind.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I say forget what the "new players" want. If EQ Next is anything like what the original Everquest was, I'm sure the game will be very successful. Maybe not 12 million subscriber successful, but at least 500k subs which is more than sufficient. There are still many MMO gamers out there who are now retired from MMO gaming or playing a MMO just for something to do, like me..
I'm playing WoW again due to the fact it's the best MMO on the market. However, I'm only playing it just for the sake of playing a MMO. There are many things about WoW that frustrate me, but I enjoy the game for what it is. Its funny because my friends that play WoW all tell me to get these addon's like quest helper which will make things,,,are you ready for it,,,,, "Easier" to achieve. I refust to get any addons to make my experience more easier than it already is. I don't like easy coasting gaming lol.. I enjoy a challenge, I enjoy that sense of accomplishment when I complete a long but awesome quest that takes me on a long perilous journey. I enjoy a captivating story while adventuring within the game. Lore is everything to me. I actually enjoy being penalized for dying a stupid death. Having a harsh death system means you shouldn't do stupid things If you don't want to pay the consequences. This is just to much for new mmo gamers who basically jumped ship from "FPS GAMES"
I say let the FPS MMO hybrid gamers play their eeeeeezzzz mode mmo's.. That's fine to me. But those who actually have a semi reasonable intellect, and who enjoy pretty much everything I do deserve to play a MMO that is both very challenging and yields a nice rewarding experience..
All the haters can hate, bash, mock, and LOL all they want. I don't really care what those types of gamers think, lol. I just know there are many people out there like me who would lvoe to play a difficult and challenging fantasy MMO similar to how EQ's concept was..
I have many fond memories of EQ.. Some of which include MMO gamers of today whinning, complaining, and crying in general chat at how,,, "hard" EQ was... Many friends of mine would often get a huge kick out of these,,,, hmmm boneheads with IQ's of puppy dogs lol.. They would do their crying and we'd try to help them of course, but they would just cry some more and log,, *shrug* These people were few and far between though... Most people playing EQ were actually intelligent.. Most of the community were awesome. It was like meeting new people at parties and or at the new job..
Today, most of these newer MMO's are plagued with semi illiterate children and immature young adults just craving attention or that just enjoy crying and or spamming in general chat.. EQ was not like this at all.. Occasinally yes, but very rare indeed..
So I actually hope EQ Next will be much like how the original EQ was in terms of challenging, rewarding, filled with captivating lore, and brings that social aspect and great community back to the MMORPG Genre..
My advice to the Dev's is, don't cater to the FPS crowd, start listening to the true fans of the fantasy MMORPG Genre.. You know who I'm referring to.. Honestly, look at all the games that failed miserably the past 6 years.. Most of these games, the Dev's tried to combine FPS aspects with MMO elements hoping to bring all the fans of both genre's together for insane profit margins. Well guess what? It didn't work... And It will Never work. You just can't please fans of both genres.. It's like mixing cake with steak. I love eating a juicy steak for dinner and I love eating a nice piece of double layered chocolate cake for dessert.... But I will throw up If I ate them both together, LOL... FPS games are fun and I enjoy Fantasy MMORPG's, but you just can't mix them together.. To many people will want the game to be what they envision based on the Genre they enjoy most...
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Well, SOE did do something very interesting lately, and that was buying out Vanguard. Think of this for a moment. It essentially is EQ2 as envisioned by one of it's original creators, Brad McQuaid. I know he has an even worse reputation than SOE after what he pulled at Sigill, but there is some good content and ideas in Vanguard. My point is that I highly suspect they will use many of its original ideas and incorporate them into Norrath on an engine that actually works. Just a hunch.
A Vanguard that works at launch would be great!
Remember Old School Ultima Online
Well.. duh!
EQ2 was promoted as the successor to EQ1 by SOE that's fact.
EQ2 was very group-centric at release and a lot harder than it is today..
Levellling was long and mobs hit a lot freaking harder plus some quest even at early levels needed a group.
You obviously never played EQ2 at release to come out with that twaddle.
As for EQ Next..Well i am hoping they make it open world and take some ideas from Vanguard..
I played EQ1 for 6 years from release..
Uh lately? As in 4 years ago lately? They bailed out Sigil before Vanguard even launched.
Also they dont need any ideas from Vanguard. Norrath and all the added realms are massive and there is more than enough classes already available to work from in EQ1 and EQ2. Although I did love some of the classes on Vanguard - Psionicist and Disciple come to mind.
Hopefully Everquest Next will just be an updated and polished Norrath for 2012 which has learnt from past mistakes, but I am not going to hold my breath.
Who said they 'NEED' ideas from Vanguard?
I hope they take 'SOME' ideas from Vanguard,don't think the word need was mentioned.
Perhaps ship building or perhaps an updated Diplomacy system plus a few more...
An open world with open dungeons would be nice.
Classes that resemble EQ1 classes because IMO the Vanguard classes are more in line with EQ1 classes especially the Bard class.
These things would be nice but i think they have already said they are going to draw from EQ1 more than EQ2 for EQ Next..
As for the Vanguard classes, i have 5 level 55 classes with the disciple being my main class.
soe need to send some of their networking programmer to microsoft to learn how to do and not do things,they could make use of the free tool called donnybrooks made by microsoft!but one thing is sure if they go at at the way they have been networking since eq2 .soe might has well just not bother to make eq next and just wait till they have learned.same for live streaming on stickham etc.if they cannot stream in 1080p smooth why bother.even the free realm engine as issue!i dont know what soe use but whatever it is it isnt working.
I hope they take 'NO' ideas from Vanguard. Diplomacy was a glorified card game and ship building was a pretty pointless addition aside for the relatively small RP crowd who get into that stuff. Basically they squandered their resources making novelty content that the vast majority didnt even care about. Combat should have been the priority.
I agree that they should follow EQ1 more than EQ2. There are too many watered down classes in EQ2 which should have remained a single class instead of two.
The thread is a year old. Locking due to necro.
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