I gotta tell ya, if that's the extent of what you do, and/or your focus you WILL get hacked, someday. It's not the size of the password, or whether they know what your character name is. Hackers aren't focused on individuals, sitting at the MMO login screen trying to figure your pwd out, they're focused on large volumes of data. And if that U/P combination(even if you weren't the one to put it there) is on any other website, you can get hacked.
I did not put everything I do there too you know, just the most common mistakes I saw during my years, and yes I also change my pass in a certain time frame and other things, and really only my open info is the same, the ones I use in games are others, also I would never put anything personal on the internet
I read ya.
Just trying to make sure folks know that if they use a wacked out U/P like
1. Don't buy gold(I'm not assuming you did, just sayin')
2. Avoid using the same username/password combination for more than one online account. If you find you can't do that, then don't use the same username/password combination for your important accounts that you use for, say, MMORPG or other gaming forums. Hackers grab U/P's from low security forum sites and sell them to gold sellers, who then try those U/P combinations on the major MMO's to sell the characters' mad lootz.
Pretty bad, sure... but imagine if they started running them on all major online banking sites...
More on number 1: Imagine how many people gold sellers sucker, should you be a fool using the same U/P on the gold selling site as they do on your MMO's! So you have another reason to not buy gold; you're funding an industry that's quite clearly trying to rob you.
That'd be like the US trying to buy oil from... never mind...
Number 2 here is a possibility in my case, so perhaps this is how I got stung. Thanks for the suggestion.
I don't buy gold.
To be honest my main gripe is that the company is not even responding to my emails.
Yeah, that's pretty lame. Bad enough to lose all your stuff...
I have never had this happen, but no the players don't have any rights when it comes to this. The game companies are careful to write their EULA's so that the customer doesn't own anything. The write it so it is more of a renting thing. When customers are able to play the content that the company owns. You don't even have to have done anything and the company by all right's is able to revoke your account.
Every time someone posts about what their rights might be one of these posts appear.
It almost like someone has a vested interest in convicing gamers that the EULAs and ToS are somehow the highest laws in the land?
Well, no.
EULAs are a contract. And like all contracts they can be challenged.
How far you get, how hard that is, and whether you are successful (and to what degree) depend on many many things.
Where you live? (Which country) What the problem was? What resolution you want? How much money and time it would cost to take various actions?
But as soon as money changes hands - you most certainly have some rights.
If that was not the case, I could ship you all an 'MMO' ( which was just some code I have written that doesn't even install or run) cover it with an EULA and charge you all then keep the money!
Can I do that? No. At best I would have to refund the money at worst I might go to jail. So EULAs are not a 'we get your money and you STFU' type deal at all.
In the case above though, you may only be entitled to a refund, pro-rata of any subscription paid.
This is the only post in this thread so far that (correctly) answers the question asked in the thread title. Shame it seems to have went unnoticed by the OP.
Solution; prevent your game account from being compromised in the first place.
What a useless piece of advice. The OP is human. Humans make mistakes. You may as well turn round after a murder and say "solution - don't get killed".
>
Of course it's good to give concrete security advice, and we can hope to reduce the number of compromised accounts, but assuming that account comprises can be completely eliminated by advice such as the above is foolish.
The thing that keeps our accounts active on MMOs is the promise of future payments either via monthly subscriptions or RMT for F2P games. Companies want to continue to receive our money, and so should provide good service.
It sounds to me as if the OP is getting poor service with Aion. I don't play the game, but is there some other way he can seek help other than by email - e.g. is there an online support forum? Once the OP has taken reasonable steps to get his account back, and he hasn't received satisfactory service, then he should abandon the game, and advise his friends to do likewise.
That's essentially what I wanted to say. I think it is infantile to come whining on the forums here regarding your compromised account. Most likely the weakest link in information theft scenario is the victim. People just do not like facing up to the truth.
If I had my account compromised, I wouldn't make a post about it here, attempting to portray myself as an innocent victim when the most likely reason for account theft is poor system/password security on the end user end. Rather, I would investigate what caused the breach and take the unfortunate occurence as a lesson learned and do my best to get my account recovered.
It seems like every single person that gets their account jacked these days wants some collectivty empathy and pats on his or her back by posting a useless thread on the forums. When asked if the fault could have been at their end the answer is always 'No, I'm a computer expert and a smart guy, I did everything to protect my information.' Sadly, in 90+% of the cases this is not the case.
I am not trying to rub salt into the OPs wounds here but really, these service providers have teams of security experts monitoring their databases, site and game transactions and any actions that are related to their customer accounts. So, who do you think is most likely to be the person with the security leak/breach, the team of security experts with a college degree in the field or Mr. Joe Average?
As some-one that works in that field....yes it is true that the vast majority of the time it is the victem who messed up (usualy through social engineering)... but honestly don't make the assumption that always the case. Most online services actualy have pretty poor security....especialy surrounding systems that aren't DIRECTLY involved in taking payments and aren't highly regulated.
Even Banks and Credit Card companies get compromised WAY MORE then the general public realizes.... and institutions that aren't required to report breaches generaly do thier very best to keep them quiet. So really don't assume that any info you have at an MMO company is safe... even if you ARE absolutely safe... most of them don't actualy invest alot in security of thier products...other then what PCI - DSS makes them do in regards accepting payments.
A great many things can be challenged in civil suits....
Getting legal representation is another matter (unless you opt to represent yourself)
Then winning a civil suit can be extremely tricky (especially concerning online-internet matters such as a game) unless your representation is stellar.
The biggest question I suggest you aks yourself is.: Will the cost of a legal fight be worth it?
I have never had this happen, but no the players don't have any rights when it comes to this. The game companies are careful to write their EULA's so that the customer doesn't own anything. The write it so it is more of a renting thing. When customers are able to play the content that the company owns. You don't even have to have done anything and the company by all right's is able to revoke your account.
Every time someone posts about what their rights might be one of these posts appear.
It almost like someone has a vested interest in convicing gamers that the EULAs and ToS are somehow the highest laws in the land?
Well, no.
EULAs are a contract. And like all contracts they can be challenged.
...
In the case above though, you may only be entitled to a refund, pro-rata of any subscription paid.
This is the only post in this thread so far that (correctly) answers the question asked in the thread title. Shame it seems to have went unnoticed by the OP.
It's not gone unnoticed. But like any forum post people will take it how they want. If I try to police the thread it will derail further.
Anyway I have had some good advice, and will try phoning NCSoft EU if I can find their number.
What I've learnt already...
(1) Never invest any time in a MMO unless I can find their support phone number easily
(2) Don't resuse passwords in different MMOs
(3) That MMO companies are never hacked themselves, it's only the end user and the FBI that gets hacked.
Background - I've had an NCSoft master account since 2004, up to three copies of City of Heroes/Villains at one point (wife, daughter and myself), tons of Dungeon Runners accounts, a Tabula Rasa account, an Exteel account and an Aion beta account. I really haven't accessed my Master account since the Aion beta ended (so quite a while ago).
A couple of weeks ago, I remembered that I was given serial codes for the original Guild Wars, 30 days game time and City of Heroes. These were given to me by NCSoft when they shut down Dungeon Runners. I decided to login to my master account and possibly activate a code or two, but found that my master account was "permanently blocked". The weird thing about this is that I was able to successfully change my password using the "forgot password" mechanism and actually received the email at my registered email address. Hmm...
I submitted a ticket and, over the course of a week, worked with support to verify that the account was actually mine. Because I'd had the account for so long, I needed to dig through my basement for old boxes to provide serial codes, sift through emails and provide the last four digits of a credit card that has long since expired. I was able to do all of that, however, and support restored my account and even gave me back the serial codes, which they had removed when they blocked the account.
As for why my account was blocked in the first place? I'm certain it wasn't anything I'd done. I haven't had any NCSoft games installed for months, never got any suspicious emails, never tried to access my account, etc... The responses I got from support were:
Your account was blocked because our security team detected an intrusion on the account from a known hostile device. To secure the account, the block was put in place until ownership of the account could be verified.
and
When an account is hacked, and depending on when we catch it, some information may not ever be changed. So yes, your account was hacked
Yes, my account was hacked. No, it doesn't seem to be as a result of anything I did. Considering some of the alleged security issues I've read about with NCSoft, I'd guess my account block as a result of them being hacked.
Yes, I worked with NCSoft support and yes, they were both professional and able to resolve my issue satisfactorily.
Regarding the questions about value and remuneration - a game is not an investment, especially a subscription-based MMO. In a subscription-based p2p mmo, you have the right to play and enjoy as long as your paid account is open. As soon as it closes you lose all access and it's game over. In your case, I hope everything works out, but they don't own you anything in regards to actual game play. If you can prove that they were negligent and that you suffered in some manner as a result of their negligence (identify theft, for example) then you might have a case. Lost access to play your characters? Are they continuing to charge you? No? Did you have fun while you had access to the game? Yes? Awesome! You got exactly what you paid for - entertainment that lasted the duration of your subscription.
A great many things can be challenged in civil suits....
Getting legal representation is another matter (unless you opt to represent yourself)
Then winning a civil suit can be extremely tricky (especially concerning online-internet matters such as a game) unless your representation is stellar.
The biggest question I suggest you aks yourself is.: Will the cost of a legal fight be worth it?
Methinx the best course of action is to call support, and everytime they say anything other than, yes, we will do this, escalate to someone higher up.
These folks are people doing jobs which kinda suck. Their personal goal is to get rid of you as quickly as possible. When the shortest means to that end is no longer, "we'll get back to you... goodbye", and is now: "Yes, we will do this.", you will probably see progress.
So my suggestion would be to imply just that. That there is no faster way to get you off the phone than them doing what you want.
So, I was given a warning for my first reply. I think the moderation on these forums is becoming increasingly baseless, hypocritical and opinionated. It is a fact that most likely when an account is compromised, the fault is on the end user end. I work as an IT consultant, and I see so many of my clients doing so many unwise things with their personal and work PCs, without thinking about the consequences.
I guess encouraging people to use their common sense is considered 'abusive'.
So, I was given a warning for my first reply. I think the moderation on these forums is becoming increasingly baseless, hypocritical and opinionated. It is a fact that most likely when an account is compromised, the fault is on the end user end. I work as an IT consultant, and I see so many of my clients doing so many unwise things with their personal and work PCs, without thinking about the consequences.
I guess encouraging people to use their common sense is considred 'abusive'.
Your first reply was snarky and had nothing to do with the OP's question. So, a warning was in order. Stick to the topic and play nice.
As to your comment above, yes, it often is the end user's fault and could be for a variety of reasons:
poor system security
sucked into phishing
sharing account info with 'friends'
etc...
That being said, there are criminal organizations devoted to account theft. Sometimes, things are beyond a player's control:
Guild Wars and Aion security issues last year, including the ability to accidentally login to somebody else's NCSoft Master Account
You are right - ultimately it is mostly the result of end user behaviour.
However, your first reply was insensitive. The OP has already suffered quite enough for any errors he's made, and your proposed "solution" doesn't help the OP in the slightest.
Whilst it's good that some of the people on this thread have offered good security advice, the truth is that there will always be people who's accounts get compromised - either because the particular people aren't very intelligent, because they are careless, or simply becauase they don't know as much about computers as you or I do.
Blaming people for losing their accounts after the fact achieves nothing. It's blaming the victims. The real people we should be blaming are the criminals behind these activities. The onese who earn a living by compromising accounts and then cleaning them out of every gold piece.
You are right - ultimately it is mostly the result of end user behaviour.
However, your first reply was insensitive. The OP has already suffered quite enough for any errors he's made, and your proposed "solution" doesn't help the OP in the slightest.
Whilst it's good that some of the people on this thread have offered good security advice, the truth is that there will always be people who's accounts get compromised - either because the particular people aren't very intelligent, because they are careless, or simply becauase they don't know as much about computers as you or I do.
Blaming people for losing their accounts after the fact achieves nothing. It's blaming the victims. The real people we should be blaming are the criminals behind these activities. The onese who earn a living by compromising accounts and then cleaning them out of every gold piece.
We should be blaming the gold sellers.
Yes it was insensitive, but certainly not abusive in my opinion, that is the key difference. I am not here on the forums to be a 'nice guy', but I won't personally start insulting anyone either, so I just felt that the mod went a little overboard in calling my post abusive.
EDIT: Also, do you not think we've had enough of these 'omg I was hacked and its not my fault' threads? They are starting to get under my skin, as you can probably see.
Surely I say that I would unleash my vengeful wrath upon thine Customer Service, and give Craig the Blizz Rep a good verbal lashing!
Long story short, I'd call in, try to get it back, if I do then I do, and if I don't I'd move on. It's just a game. It's not about how far you got, but the experience you had getting there. If you had fun, it's not time wasted, but time well spent.
Game on, you legions of sun-fearing, vent whispering, BAWLS drinking sociopaths!
You are right - ultimately it is mostly the result of end user behaviour.
However, your first reply was insensitive. The OP has already suffered quite enough for any errors he's made, and your proposed "solution" doesn't help the OP in the slightest.
Whilst it's good that some of the people on this thread have offered good security advice, the truth is that there will always be people who's accounts get compromised - either because the particular people aren't very intelligent, because they are careless, or simply becauase they don't know as much about computers as you or I do.
Blaming people for losing their accounts after the fact achieves nothing. It's blaming the victims. The real people we should be blaming are the criminals behind these activities. The onese who earn a living by compromising accounts and then cleaning them out of every gold piece.
We should be blaming the gold sellers.
Yes it was insensitive, but certainly not abusive in my opinion, that is the key difference. I am not here on the forums to be a 'nice guy', but I won't personally start insulting anyone either, so I just felt that the mod went a little overboard in calling my post abusive.
EDIT: Also, do you not think we've had enough of these 'omg I was hacked and its not my fault' threads? They are starting to get under my skin, as you can probably see.
ROFL. So effectively calling me an 'infantile whiner' on post #12 in not at all abusive, is it? Oh, well yes it is.
And you complain about these threads; yet you cannot stop posting on it.
Fortunately, I've had helpful replies and some interesting advice. Not from you though. You're lke the anti-good Samaritan and really rather annoying. Still, good day to you sir, and congratulations to the moderator.
EDIT: Also, do you not think we've had enough of these 'omg I was hacked and its not my fault' threads? They are starting to get under my skin, as you can probably see.
Seeing as how people still keep getting hacked and don't know how, I figure we don't have enough of these posts.
I think it's perfectly normal to not realize the lengths that some people will go through to get into your account and clean you out, let alone realize the means they have to do it. Alot of people would think that turning a whole accounts inventory into vendor trash for the little bit of gold it would get wouldn't be worth the effort. That only a person with malicious intentions would do such a thing.
Some of us gave examples in how your account could be compromised, despite not telling a soul what your password is. Despite changing your passwords from time to time. Despite having a password that in no way could be guessed. Despite not buying gold. Despite seeing phishing emails from a mile away...
Naturally, a person that careful would assume it wasn't their fault. Might even assume it was the MMO that did it. For all we know, it might have been.
Fling fail-pies was neither necessary, nor necessary deserved. Since that's all your first post did, I'm GLAD they deleted it.
EDIT: Also, do you not think we've had enough of these 'omg I was hacked and its not my fault' threads? They are starting to get under my skin, as you can probably see.
Seeing as how people still keep getting hacked and don't know how, I figure we don't have enough of these posts.
I think it's perfectly normal to not realize the lengths that some people will go through to get into your account and clean you out, let alone realize the means they have to do it. Alot of people would think that turning a whole accounts inventory into vendor trash for the little bit of gold it would get wouldn't be worth the effort. That only a person with malicious intentions would do such a thing.
Some of us gave examples in how your account could be compromised, despite not telling a soul what your password is. Despite changing your passwords from time to time. Despite having a password that in no way could be guessed. Despite not buying gold. Despite seeing phishing emails from a mile away...
Naturally, a person that careful would assume it wasn't their fault. Might even assume it was the MMO that did it. For all we know, it might have been.
Fling fail-pies was neither necessary, nor necessary deserved. Since that's all your first post did, I'm GLAD they deleted it.
Exactly, but sometimes people need to hear the hard truth, instead of being deluded and blaming everything on a thrid party. Sure, the people stealing the accounts are asshats who deliberately hurt other people for personal gain. However, it doesn't hurt to realize that the bottom line is that you are responsible for securing your own account, nobody else.
A great many things can be challenged in civil suits....
Getting legal representation is another matter (unless you opt to represent yourself)
Then winning a civil suit can be extremely tricky (especially concerning online-internet matters such as a game) unless your representation is stellar.
The biggest question I suggest you aks yourself is.: Will the cost of a legal fight be worth it?
As I said earlier it really depends...
If all you want is your unused subscription money back that could be fairly easy.
Your first step, in any dispute, is to contact the other party. Be polite and honest and say exactly what you want. This tells them how they can resolve the situation to your satisfaction. The 'ball is in their court' at that point. They might simply decide that your request is fair and resolve the issue at once.
i.e.
Dear Sir, (or what ever)
My account was cancelled by your company due to an issue I believe was no fault of my own.
<short explination>
Could you please resolve this issue by reactivating my account or, if you are unable to do that, refunding my unused subscription fee which I calculate as $$$.
Thank you and I look forward to your reply.
Most companies would look at that and decide if it was really worth their time NOT to resolve the issue at that point. Because people who are prepared to put pen to paper once will often do so again.
Also, if you do take the matter further, courts and agencies will want to know what you have done to attempt to resolve the issue?
A letter like this makes you look good, and if they knock you back they look bad.
A forum post saying "U F***ERS STOL MI MONEYZ!!!!!111!!!!!!!1111" really doesn't help.
Beyond that you can approach your credit card company for a chargeback (CC companies really take a dim view when their customers get billed for good/services which are not provided) and the EULA does not matter a damn to the CC companies. But they will ask for an explination and do an 'investigation' - so you had better be squeeky clean.
Many states and countries offer 'Consumer Affairs' agencies which will act on your behalf. Sometimes you can even use foreign agencies to help you in internet transactions.
Small claims courts operate in many states (and countries) too. In many cases you don't need a lawyer (in some cases you cannot have a lawyer). All you need to do in some cases is convince the judge that on the balance of probability you are 'in the right'. The big issue would be jurisdiction. Not much point taking an issue to small claims court when dealing with a company half way around the world.
But, if you want to sue for Eleventy Million Dollars and claim based on all the hours you put into the game... and you want the Customer Services guy fired... then you will need a legal team... and good luck with that.
All of this might be cleared up with a phone call. It's in an MMO's best interest to keep you as a subscriber. I think you would be well served if you tell the rep you want:
1) To be re-imbursed for the time your account was suspended.
2) Details as to what exactly happed with the hacked account as you want to ensure you are not a victim of identity theft.
3) That at this point, you are willing to continue your subscription if they work with you. If they refuse to work with you to your satisfaction, tell them you are going to file a complaint with the BBB as you feel their handling of this is unjust, and that likewise, you will be sharing your experience with your friends and consumer protection websites like the consumerist.
Without details, there is no way to know how/if/when your account was cracked into. It could be something on your machine, something between you and their servers, or their servers themselves. SOMETHING red-flagged your account in thelr logs or system. I think it is completely reasonable for you to inquire further as to what that was.
If you reinstate your account, first thing to do is to change your password as many here have suggested. Make it something VERY secure... Do a google for best practices on secure passwords. Again, it might not even be something on your side that caused the red flag to your account. But just better safe than sorry.
As far as "rights".... Like someone said earlier - you agreed to a EULA, a contract between two parties. If anything is fraudulant or misleading, you can certainly challenge it in a court of law. I realize it sucks that they pulled your account and that their lack of email support afterwards leaves much to be desired. We invest a lot of time and energy in these things... they strive to make us a part of the world and then when we finally do, they can just kill the account on us like this. It sort of demeans all that time we spent ingame. That is a huge negative point to MMOs in general. For me, I wouldnt bother trying to challenge them legally as it isn't worth either the money, time, or energy needed. I would just do exactly as you did... tell others of your experience. The free market has a way of taking care of businesses who don't provide top notch support to their customers. It is in their best interest to keep you, the paying customer, happy.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
Just for a second imagine if the next time you log onto your MMO of choice you cannot play, and then you never get to play again. All your accomplishments in the game are lost and you have apparently no recourse whatsoever.
--
Three weeks ago I logged onto my Aion account and it had been compromised. Not sure why, and I don't know how, but things were clearly not where they should be. I contacted NCSoft immediately and I am emailed that the account is 'temporarily suspended' to prevent further access. I am then asked a few questions to verify my account which I do immediately.
That was three weeks ago. I have now emailed them 4 times and not had a single reply. I have checked the addresses and my spam folders countless times but nothing. I simply cannot believe that after playing their game I have been apparently been cast aside. I have not done anything wrong on the account and I cannot see that I have been phished.
Anyway, I'm not that worried about the account anymore. If a company is this unprofessional I will stay well clear. I still keep checking my emails though because I simply cannot believe this actually happens to average players for no reason at all.
--
Looking forward my main concern is should I even bother with this genre if this can happen? I had invested a lot of time into my Aion character(s) and it's all been wasted. In honesty I was about done with the game, but what if I wasn't?
DO we have any rights at all when playing?
As players we invest a lot of our time into this hobby, is there anything we can do if our account is just turned off?
Does anyone know of a complaint upheld against a MMO company for an incident like this?
This could happen to YOU.
TLDR; Imagine if a game company suddenly closes your account and gives you no reason at all. Is there anything you can do about it?
I feel for ya buddy with these NCsoft Assholes ... my main Ncsoft account has permantantly blocked ,and guess what no reason no email , no responce zilch .... and i had it for years with Numerous games I registered to it. Ncsoft can die for all I care assholes.
Thanks to Gyrus, Greslore and Summitus above, and of course others earlier, I've had a lot of helpful suggestions.
I'd love to phone NCSoft customer support, but they don't list the number anywhere on their site and this is perhaps indicative of their attitude. They only list email contact details. I'm not surprised that othe players have their own greivances.
I'm not going to try anymore because I don't intend to give NCSoft any more of my money. Still, I'm sure this whole incident will leave me better prepared for the future.
Although some of the posts on this thread have been patronising, there are many good suggestions, and I hope others have gained something from them too. I doubt I'll post again on this thread, but thanks.
In conclusion (for me):
I suspect (don't know) that I've re-used a user name / password combination too often and some how it's leaked out (possibly from a game I've played some time ago). I won't do that again. (Thanks Robsolf)
It seems I have very few rights other than perhaps a small refund for the final month, so...
In future I'm going to make a point of checking customer support before I need it.
For the information of others: in most countries I know businesses are legally required to have a contact (or something to identify them) listed somewhere on their sites. (I own a company and I have to show my company number at an absolute minimum - which allows you to find my phone number and business address if you look for it.)
If they don't they are probably breaking the law and you can contact the agency which regulates such things in the country they are based. I have done this to do with a US company a few years ago and believe me the response was absolutely stellar after that.
Comments
I read ya.
Just trying to make sure folks know that if they use a wacked out U/P like
SF*(*&FCR*FR / Supercalifragilisticexpialidociousroxxorz23249523523
...that if they also use that on, say, "Free Art of Foot Kick Fun Party Online", they're gonna be just as screwed as if they used Me / Me2
Yeah, that's pretty lame. Bad enough to lose all your stuff...
This is the only post in this thread so far that (correctly) answers the question asked in the thread title. Shame it seems to have went unnoticed by the OP.
My Signature
As some-one that works in that field....yes it is true that the vast majority of the time it is the victem who messed up (usualy through social engineering)... but honestly don't make the assumption that always the case. Most online services actualy have pretty poor security....especialy surrounding systems that aren't DIRECTLY involved in taking payments and aren't highly regulated.
Even Banks and Credit Card companies get compromised WAY MORE then the general public realizes.... and institutions that aren't required to report breaches generaly do thier very best to keep them quiet. So really don't assume that any info you have at an MMO company is safe... even if you ARE absolutely safe... most of them don't actualy invest alot in security of thier products...other then what PCI - DSS makes them do in regards accepting payments.
A great many things can be challenged in civil suits....
Getting legal representation is another matter (unless you opt to represent yourself)
Then winning a civil suit can be extremely tricky (especially concerning online-internet matters such as a game) unless your representation is stellar.
The biggest question I suggest you aks yourself is.: Will the cost of a legal fight be worth it?
PIRATE LORDS
Why am I not surprised that the game in question is Aion.
It's not gone unnoticed. But like any forum post people will take it how they want. If I try to police the thread it will derail further.
Anyway I have had some good advice, and will try phoning NCSoft EU if I can find their number.
What I've learnt already...
(1) Never invest any time in a MMO unless I can find their support phone number easily
(2) Don't resuse passwords in different MMOs
(3) That MMO companies are never hacked themselves, it's only the end user and the FBI that gets hacked.
The last one was a joke.
As a counterpoint to this story:
Background - I've had an NCSoft master account since 2004, up to three copies of City of Heroes/Villains at one point (wife, daughter and myself), tons of Dungeon Runners accounts, a Tabula Rasa account, an Exteel account and an Aion beta account. I really haven't accessed my Master account since the Aion beta ended (so quite a while ago).
A couple of weeks ago, I remembered that I was given serial codes for the original Guild Wars, 30 days game time and City of Heroes. These were given to me by NCSoft when they shut down Dungeon Runners. I decided to login to my master account and possibly activate a code or two, but found that my master account was "permanently blocked". The weird thing about this is that I was able to successfully change my password using the "forgot password" mechanism and actually received the email at my registered email address. Hmm...
I submitted a ticket and, over the course of a week, worked with support to verify that the account was actually mine. Because I'd had the account for so long, I needed to dig through my basement for old boxes to provide serial codes, sift through emails and provide the last four digits of a credit card that has long since expired. I was able to do all of that, however, and support restored my account and even gave me back the serial codes, which they had removed when they blocked the account.
As for why my account was blocked in the first place? I'm certain it wasn't anything I'd done. I haven't had any NCSoft games installed for months, never got any suspicious emails, never tried to access my account, etc... The responses I got from support were:
and
Yes, my account was hacked. No, it doesn't seem to be as a result of anything I did. Considering some of the alleged security issues I've read about with NCSoft, I'd guess my account block as a result of them being hacked.
Yes, I worked with NCSoft support and yes, they were both professional and able to resolve my issue satisfactorily.
Regarding the questions about value and remuneration - a game is not an investment, especially a subscription-based MMO. In a subscription-based p2p mmo, you have the right to play and enjoy as long as your paid account is open. As soon as it closes you lose all access and it's game over. In your case, I hope everything works out, but they don't own you anything in regards to actual game play. If you can prove that they were negligent and that you suffered in some manner as a result of their negligence (identify theft, for example) then you might have a case. Lost access to play your characters? Are they continuing to charge you? No? Did you have fun while you had access to the game? Yes? Awesome! You got exactly what you paid for - entertainment that lasted the duration of your subscription.
~Ripper
Methinx the best course of action is to call support, and everytime they say anything other than, yes, we will do this, escalate to someone higher up.
These folks are people doing jobs which kinda suck. Their personal goal is to get rid of you as quickly as possible. When the shortest means to that end is no longer, "we'll get back to you... goodbye", and is now: "Yes, we will do this.", you will probably see progress.
So my suggestion would be to imply just that. That there is no faster way to get you off the phone than them doing what you want.
So, I was given a warning for my first reply. I think the moderation on these forums is becoming increasingly baseless, hypocritical and opinionated. It is a fact that most likely when an account is compromised, the fault is on the end user end. I work as an IT consultant, and I see so many of my clients doing so many unwise things with their personal and work PCs, without thinking about the consequences.
I guess encouraging people to use their common sense is considered 'abusive'.
Your first reply was snarky and had nothing to do with the OP's question. So, a warning was in order. Stick to the topic and play nice.
As to your comment above, yes, it often is the end user's fault and could be for a variety of reasons:
poor system security
sucked into phishing
sharing account info with 'friends'
etc...
That being said, there are criminal organizations devoted to account theft. Sometimes, things are beyond a player's control:
Guild Wars and Aion security issues last year, including the ability to accidentally login to somebody else's NCSoft Master Account
USB Digital Photo Frames shipped with account stealing trojans
Database hacks
etc...
So,while it's entirely possible that it's the victim's fault, knowingly or not, it may not be.
~Ripper
Hrothmund,
You are right - ultimately it is mostly the result of end user behaviour.
However, your first reply was insensitive. The OP has already suffered quite enough for any errors he's made, and your proposed "solution" doesn't help the OP in the slightest.
Whilst it's good that some of the people on this thread have offered good security advice, the truth is that there will always be people who's accounts get compromised - either because the particular people aren't very intelligent, because they are careless, or simply becauase they don't know as much about computers as you or I do.
Blaming people for losing their accounts after the fact achieves nothing. It's blaming the victims. The real people we should be blaming are the criminals behind these activities. The onese who earn a living by compromising accounts and then cleaning them out of every gold piece.
We should be blaming the gold sellers.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Yes it was insensitive, but certainly not abusive in my opinion, that is the key difference. I am not here on the forums to be a 'nice guy', but I won't personally start insulting anyone either, so I just felt that the mod went a little overboard in calling my post abusive.
EDIT: Also, do you not think we've had enough of these 'omg I was hacked and its not my fault' threads? They are starting to get under my skin, as you can probably see.
Surely I say that I would unleash my vengeful wrath upon thine Customer Service, and give Craig the Blizz Rep a good verbal lashing!
Long story short, I'd call in, try to get it back, if I do then I do, and if I don't I'd move on. It's just a game. It's not about how far you got, but the experience you had getting there. If you had fun, it's not time wasted, but time well spent.
Game on, you legions of sun-fearing, vent whispering, BAWLS drinking sociopaths!
ROFL. So effectively calling me an 'infantile whiner' on post #12 in not at all abusive, is it? Oh, well yes it is.
And you complain about these threads; yet you cannot stop posting on it.
Fortunately, I've had helpful replies and some interesting advice. Not from you though. You're lke the anti-good Samaritan and really rather annoying. Still, good day to you sir, and congratulations to the moderator.
Seeing as how people still keep getting hacked and don't know how, I figure we don't have enough of these posts.
I think it's perfectly normal to not realize the lengths that some people will go through to get into your account and clean you out, let alone realize the means they have to do it. Alot of people would think that turning a whole accounts inventory into vendor trash for the little bit of gold it would get wouldn't be worth the effort. That only a person with malicious intentions would do such a thing.
Some of us gave examples in how your account could be compromised, despite not telling a soul what your password is. Despite changing your passwords from time to time. Despite having a password that in no way could be guessed. Despite not buying gold. Despite seeing phishing emails from a mile away...
Naturally, a person that careful would assume it wasn't their fault. Might even assume it was the MMO that did it. For all we know, it might have been.
Fling fail-pies was neither necessary, nor necessary deserved. Since that's all your first post did, I'm GLAD they deleted it.
Exactly, but sometimes people need to hear the hard truth, instead of being deluded and blaming everything on a thrid party. Sure, the people stealing the accounts are asshats who deliberately hurt other people for personal gain. However, it doesn't hurt to realize that the bottom line is that you are responsible for securing your own account, nobody else.
Remember all that legal mumbo jumbo we're suppose to read and agree to before playing any game, we have no rights.
As I said earlier it really depends...
If all you want is your unused subscription money back that could be fairly easy.
Your first step, in any dispute, is to contact the other party. Be polite and honest and say exactly what you want. This tells them how they can resolve the situation to your satisfaction. The 'ball is in their court' at that point. They might simply decide that your request is fair and resolve the issue at once.
i.e.
Dear Sir, (or what ever)
My account was cancelled by your company due to an issue I believe was no fault of my own.
<short explination>
Could you please resolve this issue by reactivating my account or, if you are unable to do that, refunding my unused subscription fee which I calculate as $$$.
Thank you and I look forward to your reply.
Most companies would look at that and decide if it was really worth their time NOT to resolve the issue at that point. Because people who are prepared to put pen to paper once will often do so again.
Also, if you do take the matter further, courts and agencies will want to know what you have done to attempt to resolve the issue?
A letter like this makes you look good, and if they knock you back they look bad.
A forum post saying "U F***ERS STOL MI MONEYZ!!!!!111!!!!!!!1111" really doesn't help.
Beyond that you can approach your credit card company for a chargeback (CC companies really take a dim view when their customers get billed for good/services which are not provided) and the EULA does not matter a damn to the CC companies. But they will ask for an explination and do an 'investigation' - so you had better be squeeky clean.
Many states and countries offer 'Consumer Affairs' agencies which will act on your behalf. Sometimes you can even use foreign agencies to help you in internet transactions.
Small claims courts operate in many states (and countries) too. In many cases you don't need a lawyer (in some cases you cannot have a lawyer). All you need to do in some cases is convince the judge that on the balance of probability you are 'in the right'. The big issue would be jurisdiction. Not much point taking an issue to small claims court when dealing with a company half way around the world.
But, if you want to sue for Eleventy Million Dollars and claim based on all the hours you put into the game... and you want the Customer Services guy fired... then you will need a legal team... and good luck with that.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
To the OP:
All of this might be cleared up with a phone call. It's in an MMO's best interest to keep you as a subscriber. I think you would be well served if you tell the rep you want:
1) To be re-imbursed for the time your account was suspended.
2) Details as to what exactly happed with the hacked account as you want to ensure you are not a victim of identity theft.
3) That at this point, you are willing to continue your subscription if they work with you. If they refuse to work with you to your satisfaction, tell them you are going to file a complaint with the BBB as you feel their handling of this is unjust, and that likewise, you will be sharing your experience with your friends and consumer protection websites like the consumerist.
Without details, there is no way to know how/if/when your account was cracked into. It could be something on your machine, something between you and their servers, or their servers themselves. SOMETHING red-flagged your account in thelr logs or system. I think it is completely reasonable for you to inquire further as to what that was.
If you reinstate your account, first thing to do is to change your password as many here have suggested. Make it something VERY secure... Do a google for best practices on secure passwords. Again, it might not even be something on your side that caused the red flag to your account. But just better safe than sorry.
As far as "rights".... Like someone said earlier - you agreed to a EULA, a contract between two parties. If anything is fraudulant or misleading, you can certainly challenge it in a court of law. I realize it sucks that they pulled your account and that their lack of email support afterwards leaves much to be desired. We invest a lot of time and energy in these things... they strive to make us a part of the world and then when we finally do, they can just kill the account on us like this. It sort of demeans all that time we spent ingame. That is a huge negative point to MMOs in general. For me, I wouldnt bother trying to challenge them legally as it isn't worth either the money, time, or energy needed. I would just do exactly as you did... tell others of your experience. The free market has a way of taking care of businesses who don't provide top notch support to their customers. It is in their best interest to keep you, the paying customer, happy.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
I feel for ya buddy with these NCsoft Assholes ... my main Ncsoft account has permantantly blocked ,and guess what no reason no email , no responce zilch .... and i had it for years with Numerous games I registered to it. Ncsoft can die for all I care assholes.
Thanks to Gyrus, Greslore and Summitus above, and of course others earlier, I've had a lot of helpful suggestions.
I'd love to phone NCSoft customer support, but they don't list the number anywhere on their site and this is perhaps indicative of their attitude. They only list email contact details. I'm not surprised that othe players have their own greivances.
I'm not going to try anymore because I don't intend to give NCSoft any more of my money. Still, I'm sure this whole incident will leave me better prepared for the future.
Although some of the posts on this thread have been patronising, there are many good suggestions, and I hope others have gained something from them too. I doubt I'll post again on this thread, but thanks.
In conclusion (for me):
I suspect (don't know) that I've re-used a user name / password combination too often and some how it's leaked out (possibly from a game I've played some time ago). I won't do that again. (Thanks Robsolf)
It seems I have very few rights other than perhaps a small refund for the final month, so...
In future I'm going to make a point of checking customer support before I need it.
Contact NC Soft?
Google Google Google
30 sec later...
http://www.ncsoft.net/global/support/contact.aspx
There are no contacts for Aion listed there... so you email anyone else on the list and ask.
North America / NC Interactive (North America)
www.plaync.com/us/support/
Europe / NCsoft West Europe
eu.plaync.com/eu/help/
For the information of others: in most countries I know businesses are legally required to have a contact (or something to identify them) listed somewhere on their sites. (I own a company and I have to show my company number at an absolute minimum - which allows you to find my phone number and business address if you look for it.)
If they don't they are probably breaking the law and you can contact the agency which regulates such things in the country they are based. I have done this to do with a US company a few years ago and believe me the response was absolutely stellar after that.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.