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Why open area space flight is still possible down the road.
adam_nox
Member UncommonPosts: 2,148
Most seem to think it's not. Their reasoning is 'why develop two similar things along side each other'?
As if you can't answer that question lol. Because people want it. And because one wouldn't invalidate the other. The on rails missions would not lose relevance or their own unique appeal due to the existance of open freeform spaceflight. There's simply many kinds of action combat that can't feasibly be done in an mmo-style movement scheme.
In fact, it seems inevitable to me that sometime down the road they WILL release a space expansion like JTL. But it's a big project, and so it's no surprise it won't make it into the initial product. However, asset-wise, they will be able to reuse much of the models and textures of their rails system in an open one, so it will cut down on some development time.
They know people want to own their own ship, that people want to live among the stars, that people want to explore, that people want to be pilots. It's kind of obvious.
Comments
I dont see why everyone has this thought of tor being garbage. It is one of the biggest projects, by probably the very best rpg developer and then they say bioware has no mmo experience, yeah well they have some of the best rpgs on the market, just like blizzard did pre wow.
Anything is possible but getting yourself all set on the idea of it ever coming is just asking, begging, for disappointment and other nonsense. Either let BioWare do their job and play the game if you want to, or don't.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Very few doubt it will be a good *game*, but many have legitimate concerns about how *MMO* will it be (rather than a simple co-op, and still Bioware doesn't even have much co-op experience) and if it is going to be worth a 15/month subscription.
They have already stated multiple times that interacting with other people is the most important part, which is why you can party with other people in the story and even have them make some of the decisions, all which affect monsters you fight and the rewards you get.
They showed one clip where everyone got in the circle, clapped their hands... err no wait, everyone huddle around an NPC and made dialogue choices. While that seems interesting and perhaps even promising, I don't think that is what people who are asking about multiplayer mean when they say hey Bioware, are you going to offer content that doesn't make players 2+ as tagalones NPCs controlled by PCs.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
You are lacking in information: there have been detailed reports from playtesters that grouped up from the start and said it worked like a charm. Also they showed several videos now of group combat.
... shall we all stop this silly nonsense now, thinking that SW:TOR will have any less grouping options than other MMO's as WoW, LotrO, AoC, WAR, etc?
Sure, you can solo in SW:TOR up till level cap, but that's possible in all other MMO's post-EQ. That doesn't mean that those other MMO's didn't support grouping.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I agree. Most of the "on rails" assets could easily be used for a complete freeroaming spaceflight expansion to the game. That way they can reuse models, maps, stats, everything for a freeroaming space game.
It seems to me that one reason they went with the "on rails" space game in the first place was to acclimate players to the idea of a space game. After all, the former SWG dev said that players in SWG didn't like the JTL expansion, they felt that it was funneling resources away from the ground game. By including any sort of space in the game at launch, even if it is as "limited" as tyhis on rails stuff, they show the players that they should expect space in the game from launch. They can expand to a more complete space game later.
I think you completely missed what people are saying, probably with intention. We want to see how Bioware is going to keep the group focus in all these single-player type features they are talking about. It's not an issue aboue whether or not you can actually group in the game. I saw the healer run around doing what healers do in every other game too.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I don't think so. I read what other posters were saying, like that it has been stated many times that grouping will be encouraged in several ways. Some of the ways they mentioned were the Companions that makes it possible to invite any class to a group without having to wait for a healer or tank, and that your team then can decided what Companions to bring to fill in the gap of skills, or another thing is that quests and missions can be done in groups, and that even quest dialogues will be handled interactively with groups.
How it'll end up we can only know when the game or full beta arrives as someone else mentioned, but it'll be silly to think that SW:TOR will miss the features that other MMO's have.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
As has been proven time and time again by others, MMO's have one shot to get it right.
If devs disappoint people by implenting sub standard gameplay elements, then they have a real chance of losing them forever. However, if they reassure people AND prove to them that their concerns are both warranted and being considered, then they stand a chance at keeping them. Unfortunately a lot of MMO's in the past have inferred certain things and then failed to deliver, trying to pass off sub standard core gameplay by "hiding" such issues behind gimmicks and an IP. They tried to "talk the talk", but they couldn't "walk the walk".
Coming back to the subject in hand, just because they CAN implement better space combat in the future, doesn't mean that they WILL.
When it comes to MMO's, all bets are off. Devs invariably do what they want, when they want. Regardless of the players wishes and concerns. We've all seen posts that say "This game really has potential". Hell, I've even wrote some myself. But potential is intangible and remains so until it is realised.
So, all we can do as players is voice our concerns and see if the devs pay attention to them. If they refuse to listen then, well we all know the end of THAT story
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
SWTOR maybe a lot of things or may not be a lot of things. It's clearly an MMO though so there will be plenty of grouping, and group quests and maybe raids. I've never questioned that. I am just not sure their primary selling point, story, is going to be as much fun for a group as i think it needs to be. Of course none of that has to do with space combat, i still think its highly unlikely they are going to introduce better space combat later after introducing this.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Normally I agree with most of what you say Cyphers, but in this case, what makes you so sure that TOR, or any other MMO for that matter, will be so "complete" at launch?
Other MMO devs have appeared to be incapable of messing their products up by missing out even the most basic gameplay elements at launch (AOC and issues regarding pvp for instance). Richard Garriott and Brad McQuaid are prime examples of situations where it doesn't matter what your legacy is, you can still mess up your latest product.
When it comes to MMO's and their development, all bets are off.
My point is that I see people saying things like "this is only the first iteration of space combat, there's every possibility that they will radically change it in the future, just you see". When in actual fact they have no foundation for that conclusion. You and I both know that when it comes to MMO's, what you see at launch is largely what you get. Once launch day arrives, performance issues will be addressed, bugs may be squashed. If we're REALLY lucky, whole brand new features may be added. But in the end, the core gameplay that is in at launch seldom radically changes.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
players can change an mmo before launch and let me tell you how. in swg they had told us flat out no player jedi now we can all understand that without jedi swg would have been a loss. it was later on thanks to the nge but before the game came out the word was no player jedi. so what did we the players do?
made polls and showed that people wanted player jedi.
posted on any forum that had anything to do about swg and how player jedi was wanted.
what needs to happen is we must make it loud and clear that we the players do not want what bioware is doing and demand that they change it.
no No NO NO!
Anyone with sense isn't complaining about the HOW it was implemented. It's entirely possible for them to add proper space combat in later. The problem is it will NEVER HAPPEN! The reason? Because of the WHY it was implemented. They made space combat a minigame space on rails crapfest because they wanted to keep the game "accessible". In other words, if you're expecting to see any mechanic that isn't overly simplified (e.g. dumbed down), forget it. Because while it's possible that they will do a complete 180 and redesign the game, and not assume the majority players are slavering monkeys incapable of more than rolling their face across the keyboard, and throw away all that delicious casual WoW general audience money...it's more likely you will evolve the requisit anatomy to shit golden bricks before it happens.
True, we can only know how it'll be if we start experiencing it while playing.
As someone else mentioned in another thread, you can have all kinds of features, but only playing the game will let you know if all these things click and gell well together into an organic gameplay experience, or whether they are meaningless or not fun.
About your question, I was refering to the belief that some people seem to have that enhancing the story aspect what Bioware is doing means that SW:TOR won't be a real MMO, simply because they can't wrap their heads around a deepened questing system with more story immersion being beneficial for MMO's.
It's nothing more than logical to see though that SW:TOR will be as complete or incomplete a MMO as these other former MMO's have been.
About the space flight and combat, it has a precedent: SWG added space later on too, so also not that strange to think that Bioware can focus on this later. And just as someone else stated, game companies are allowed to change their mind after seeing and reading what most players like and dislike.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I agree They will more then likely add the free flight space combat later on the star fox mini game is just a really nice place holder so that when the do add space it wont end up like SWG.
I am sorry but I think the idea that Bioware 'might add' a more challenging flight aspect to the game a year or so after launch is just wishful thinking.
If the game is a success, there won't be any need to add more expensive features; if the game is a failure, why throw good money after bad?
We don't know if Bioware will implement enhanced space flight and combat features after launch, everything is possible.
There's a precedent though, SWG got JTL in an expansion after launch.
For the rest, all future telling is basically wild guessing, not even all the gameplay features have been revealed let alone a full beta having been played.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The difference is, JTL was always designed to be an integral part of the game and, in fact, work had begun on that expansion before launch. It was only because John Smedley decided it would be a paid expansion that work was suspended and only resumed after launch. In the event, while JTL was a pretty good expansion, it was a disasterous decision since it mean the devs who should have been working on bug-fixing, combat-balancing and feature-adding were in fact working on HTL. It also persuaded Smedley that the way to boost revenue from his games was not through the incremental building of subs but by the regular launch of paid expansions.People wanted space in some form or another, they gave in. If you think it is even REMOTELY possible to have open area space and a good ground based mmo at release for any developer EVER then you are OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND. geezus tits.
[Mod Edit]
and the truth is bioware is not going to make open area space. they are going to keep the rail shooter in and proclaim it great when we all know it's lazy and wrong.
[Mod Edit]
Im getting a little bit fucking tired of this word It is not a fucking co-op man. Never have they said co-op... Nobody has called it a co-op and even the people on this site(that MMORPG review from E3) that played it said it was more like WoW.
Stop saying co-op, man.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
The point was not missed, you have choice in game and can group or pursue other avenues. It is how the game is being developed, and it is looking fine. The differenced is the word forced.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Difficult but not impossible.
I would like to see a lot of elements develop over time, but lots of priorities before space combat. I would expect the below to be developed over time. But hey in reality thats me and my imagination . I will just play the game they release, no Beta , no false expectations just the game they release.
That said I would prefer them to focus on ground based
Add auto generating planets as well as the core overdeveloped ones.
Add additional star systems / with resources and manufacture
Add the ability to develop space stations/planets with battleground capabilities
Space combat /NPC
Space Combat factional / Guild based on developed planets..
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I recall purchasing tickets in SWG to travel, all you would get is a ship landing and a ship taking off, followed by a loading screen. How come this ultimate star wars experience didn't have space at launch? So BioWare has already one uped SOE by having space combat and player ships on launch? Lets not forget transportation in SWG changed over time.
It's kinda annoying that I'm forced to bring up one of SOEs failed games (mostly with you) to make a point, but it's the only way to communicate with fanboys.