If EQ2 had been released in it's current state instead of the crap which was it's initial incarnation, then yes, it would have taken off. In it's current state EQ2 offers more depth than any MMO on the market. I just wish they hadn't felt the need to implement the battlegrounds which completely killed the already dying PvP environment. If they learn from their mistakes (this is a BIG if) then I will certainly be on board for Everquest: Next.
After leaving EQII to follow friends to LoTRO, then coming back because LoTRO's every release is more of the same, I am still blown away that EQII hasn't grown to epic proportions. Almost everything is better; the graphics, the character models, the game play, and I could go on and on. The only exception being the large amounts zoning, which coupled with the lack of people I knew in game to draw me away in the first place. I'm still playing in those zones, but I didn't lose any of the characters I left behind, so I'm looking forward to finding out what I missed soon.
Oddly enough, what brought me back was the housing, which was sadly lacking on the development end in LoTRO. I should stop now. There's lots of stuff in my head that could end up a block long here. To get back to the point, I don't see how any other game holds a candle to EQII. I thought WoW (because it was from Blizzard) would be the last game I'd ever need to play, and I ended up not being able to hold down my lunch through more than twenty minutes of it. Wait. Getting off into ramble land again. Let's just say that, whatever you're playing now, EQII is where you should be.
I kind of had the exact opposite experience going from EQII to LOTRO with Friends...We liked EQII well enough but found that the leveling slowed WAY down when we got to 25 or so...We definetely liked LOTRO's graphics and Character models better than EQII...I don't know...I'm not saying EQII looks bad at all...Just saying we were REALLY blown away by the world and environments overall in LOTRO...I think both Games have great depth, but admittedly EQII probably has the edge in that department...It just seemed to us that LOTRO was WAY more fun overall than EQII...
The main thing I miss about EQII was the entire Vault/Storage/Shared Vault system...The fact that you could drop 24 slotted crates into a single slot was incredible...I LOVED that!!!
The only games that do okay in a WoW world are browser games like Runescape and Eve.
You keep repeating this at every opportunity. And I will repeat what has been said as well. A game does not need 11 million subs to be succesful. The only thing WOW destroyed was the quality of MMO's.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
The only games that do okay in a WoW world are browser games like Runescape and Eve.
So WoW forced EQ2, SWG and DAoC to close down?
Hrm, I still see them listed as active games so I guess not.
Filling the genre with ninnies =/= destroying a game.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
After leaving EQII to follow friends to LoTRO, then coming back because LoTRO's every release is more of the same, I am still blown away that EQII hasn't grown to epic proportions. Almost everything is better; the graphics, the character models, the game play, and I could go on and on. The only exception being the large amounts zoning, which coupled with the lack of people I knew in game to draw me away in the first place. I'm still playing in those zones, but I didn't lose any of the characters I left behind, so I'm looking forward to finding out what I missed soon.
Oddly enough, what brought me back was the housing, which was sadly lacking on the development end in LoTRO. I should stop now. There's lots of stuff in my head that could end up a block long here. To get back to the point, I don't see how any other game holds a candle to EQII. I thought WoW (because it was from Blizzard) would be the last game I'd ever need to play, and I ended up not being able to hold down my lunch through more than twenty minutes of it. Wait. Getting off into ramble land again. Let's just say that, whatever you're playing now, EQII is where you should be.
I kind of had the exact opposite experience going from EQII to LOTRO with Friends...We liked EQII well enough but found that the leveling slowed WAY down when we got to 25 or so...We definetely liked LOTRO's graphics and Character models better than EQII...I don't know...I'm not saying EQII looks bad at all...Just saying we were REALLY blown away by the world and environments overall in LOTRO...I think both Games have great depth, but admittedly EQII probably has the edge in that department...It just seemed to us that LOTRO was WAY more fun overall than EQII...
The main thing I miss about EQII was the entire Vault/Storage/Shared Vault system...The fact that you could drop 24 slotted crates into a single slot was incredible...I LOVED that!!!
Yeah, the storage is awesome in EQII, and I was blown away by LoTRO's world at first, but really stayed to play with friends. I have a lifetime sub (got it about a week before they stopped offering them anymore-woot!), so it won't cost me anything to go back and play from time to time, but their last few expansions and add-ons were so disappointingly the same that I just couldn't bring myself to log in and stay for any amount of time. Then again, maybe that happens after playing one game for three years, but maybe I just spent that long giving it chances to improve.
I like that EQII's level progression slows down, and I like that I can slow it down even further if I choose, and enjoy the huge amount of adventuring to be done at every level. One thing I now realize that LoTRO is sadly lacking is quests. They make huge landscapes, vast caverns, deep storylines, and the players get so few quests that you can actually burn through all of them in a couple of months. When I got something like nine quests from one npc in the Halas newbie zone, I knew I wouldn't spend hours rinsing and repeating the same old stuff, because I could always find some npc that would need something done. It also meant that any new toons I made wouldn't be doomed to repeat the exact same quests through their early lives if I didn't feel like it.
Don't get me wrong - I really do love LoTRO, and I have some amazing friends there - but for freshness at every turn, my eyes have opened to the fact that it doesn't hold a candle to EQII.
There...I said something; now be quiet while I kill this.
EQ2 was a bad and broken game, and for many of the reasons people blame WoW for (even before WoW launched).
My girlfriend wanted to play because of the graphics. I was a big EQ1 fan so even tho' I was waiting for WoW I thought naively at the time.. "Eh MMOs are MMOs, there's a lot of the same features here."
Then I got in to it.
Everything was fine up to about level 25. I was my rogue swashbuckler merrily aoeing everything and dying because I didn't really have a deaggro key and the AI in EQ2 was way more simple than even EQ1s. I didn't care, I had a ton of backstabs. But I also had a ton of caster abilities. I had a spell I had to recast every 7 fucking minutes to buff my group. Luckily Sony read a thread about making nonCasters spells a toggle. Cuz man it was annoying, I didn't like playing spell casters at the time, I wanted to be a sneaky pick pocketing rogue! Wait.. My sneak's kind of lame in EQ2 and I couldn't pick pocket a damn thing.
The servers weren't ever that populated either. The RP was okay from time to time. The lack of PvP at the beginning was a big mistake.
Despite the touted customization everyone ended up looking the same anyway. The proportions on the humans were hidious. There's 3 types of leather and heavy armor and it just gets recolored for 50 more levels. Oh wait Sony added the apperance slots and a pay store.
Then all the WoW changes came along. Now my warlock and my rogue played exactly the same... Button mash, button mash. Oh wait SoE's patching and changing all the stats again.. Oh now I have to pay for Master craft skills rather than earning the free one here and there every 6 levels or so.
EQ2 is a pretty game that sucks.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
The only games that do okay in a WoW world are browser games like Runescape and Eve.
You keep repeating this at every opportunity. And I will repeat what has been said as well. A game does not need 11 million subs to be succesful. The only thing WOW destroyed was the quality of MMO's.
Well stated! I have to admit I couldn't agree more.
I really don't think so. I played at launch and it was pretty awful. The list of offenses is pretty long, so I am not going to get into it. Besides, for all intents and purposes that game doesn't even exist anymore.
In-fact, after WoW came out, EQII went through a few patches and at least 1 major overhaul to make it more like WoW. Deny it all you like, but I was there for the whole thing. It was plain for all to see, though perhaps a bit clearer to me because I was playing both games simultaneously. That's about the same time it's *stable* popularity started to rise. Popularity at launch is hardly worth noting.
Combat has always had a very disconnected feeling, and movement does not feel crisp. It can make executing complicated strategies extremely frustrating. That said, I have really enjoyed my time in EQII; launch not withstanding. Below the surface, there is a truly fun game there. Yet, I believe the pressure that WoW exerted caused some of the changes which made it better (and some which made it worse). So, without WoW I think we'd be more likely to be playing something that came out before EQ2 or some other game which would have come out after, sans WoW-flavored influence.
MOST OF eq2 RAIDS are tank and spank. Vanilla WoW still has it beat on raiding dynamics even to this day. I play Eq2 over WoW, and WoW is very easy. But the raid dynamics are much mich more interesting.
I keep reading the same things from the negative folks over and over - bad game, broken, blah blah blah - but you never say anything positive about the games you like. There are games you like, aren't there? Just don't tell me how great WoW is, 'cause it'll take an hour to get the vomit out of my keyboard...
There...I said something; now be quiet while I kill this.
Imo it would have been a true blockbuster. It had some bugs at launch, but so did WoW. EQ2 actually had none of the problems with server queues WoW had and as far as class balance goes there was no way to be worse than vanilla WoW! EQ2 has a polish that WoW only achieved after an expansion and it had some really nice features at launch, like player housing, NPC and quest finder and an actual LFG system.
I remember distinctly most comparative reviews at the time resulting in a tie and from my personal experience most went to WoW simply because it was made by Blizzard. When WoW launched I was playing EQ2 and trying for weeks to persuade my friends to join me; they refused because they had played Warcarft, Diablo and Starcraft and truly believed that Blizzard's game couldn't be anything but the best; I ended up playing WoW with them for years!
Don't forget that a lot of players had to buy new rigs to play EQ2 an that was not the case with WoW.
EQII would have had a larger population. However, it probably wouldn't have been as wildly successful as WoW. Like many others have said, WoW is what made mmorpgs popular in the west. Actually it had a similar effect on mmorpgs that FF VII had on rpgs (you still see Cloud and Sephiroth references everywhere). WoW made the genre "cool", whereas you would have been just another nerd for playing EQII.
I think I'd rather have MMOs still be for us nerds. The jocks beat us up in high school, now they've invaded our hobby and simplified it from chess club to football.
Yeah...part of me does agree. However, I also have to wonder what would have really been different if WoW had never come out. I'm not entirely sure games like SWTOR, TERA and Rifts would be in development.
If WoW hadn't been released at around the same time just how much bigger would have EQ2 been?
No. It was too buggy and small. If it would have released in the shape it was when EoF released things would have been different but initially it had too low budget and not enough development time.
SOE are bad on fixing bugs, it took them something like 4 years just to fix the lag in Neriak to mention one thing. Blizzard have always been better on things like that. That isn't something that helps either.
It would probably have been somewhat bigger until LOTRO released but never over 500K subs.
Yeah...part of me does agree. However, I also have to wonder what would have really been different if WoW had never come out. I'm not entirely sure games like SWTOR, TERA and Rifts would be in development.
I think that someone else would made a better remake of EQ anyways, but the thought is interesting. Suddenly would Guildwars 8,5 millions copies been one of the largest. It is not impossible that games like Guildwars and Lineage would have influenced the genre more, and AC for that matter.
EQ2 is a nice game now but it took a few years to get it like that. If SOE would have waited longer with the release it could have been a lot larger today but it wasn't Wows fault but SOE who messed up.
Comments
If EQ2 had been released in it's current state instead of the crap which was it's initial incarnation, then yes, it would have taken off. In it's current state EQ2 offers more depth than any MMO on the market. I just wish they hadn't felt the need to implement the battlegrounds which completely killed the already dying PvP environment. If they learn from their mistakes (this is a BIG if) then I will certainly be on board for Everquest: Next.
Wouldn't of mattered to be honest WoW is a 100 times better game than eq2.
The gameplay alone is a deal breaker when you compare eq2 to WoW. WoW just runs so much smoother, honestly theres a reason its the most popular mmo.
Unfortunately for most mmo's, WoW did come out. Showing how you don't need to focus on graphics to have a good mmo.
I kind of had the exact opposite experience going from EQII to LOTRO with Friends...We liked EQII well enough but found that the leveling slowed WAY down when we got to 25 or so...We definetely liked LOTRO's graphics and Character models better than EQII...I don't know...I'm not saying EQII looks bad at all...Just saying we were REALLY blown away by the world and environments overall in LOTRO...I think both Games have great depth, but admittedly EQII probably has the edge in that department...It just seemed to us that LOTRO was WAY more fun overall than EQII...
The main thing I miss about EQII was the entire Vault/Storage/Shared Vault system...The fact that you could drop 24 slotted crates into a single slot was incredible...I LOVED that!!!
WoW destroyed EQ2, SWG, DAoC, etc.
.
The only games that do okay in a WoW world are browser games like Runescape and Eve.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
You keep repeating this at every opportunity. And I will repeat what has been said as well. A game does not need 11 million subs to be succesful. The only thing WOW destroyed was the quality of MMO's.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
So WoW forced EQ2, SWG and DAoC to close down?
Hrm, I still see them listed as active games so I guess not.
Filling the genre with ninnies =/= destroying a game.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Yeah, the storage is awesome in EQII, and I was blown away by LoTRO's world at first, but really stayed to play with friends. I have a lifetime sub (got it about a week before they stopped offering them anymore-woot!), so it won't cost me anything to go back and play from time to time, but their last few expansions and add-ons were so disappointingly the same that I just couldn't bring myself to log in and stay for any amount of time. Then again, maybe that happens after playing one game for three years, but maybe I just spent that long giving it chances to improve.
I like that EQII's level progression slows down, and I like that I can slow it down even further if I choose, and enjoy the huge amount of adventuring to be done at every level. One thing I now realize that LoTRO is sadly lacking is quests. They make huge landscapes, vast caverns, deep storylines, and the players get so few quests that you can actually burn through all of them in a couple of months. When I got something like nine quests from one npc in the Halas newbie zone, I knew I wouldn't spend hours rinsing and repeating the same old stuff, because I could always find some npc that would need something done. It also meant that any new toons I made wouldn't be doomed to repeat the exact same quests through their early lives if I didn't feel like it.
Don't get me wrong - I really do love LoTRO, and I have some amazing friends there - but for freshness at every turn, my eyes have opened to the fact that it doesn't hold a candle to EQII.
There...I said something; now be quiet while I kill this.
EQ2 was a bad and broken game, and for many of the reasons people blame WoW for (even before WoW launched).
My girlfriend wanted to play because of the graphics. I was a big EQ1 fan so even tho' I was waiting for WoW I thought naively at the time.. "Eh MMOs are MMOs, there's a lot of the same features here."
Then I got in to it.
Everything was fine up to about level 25. I was my rogue swashbuckler merrily aoeing everything and dying because I didn't really have a deaggro key and the AI in EQ2 was way more simple than even EQ1s. I didn't care, I had a ton of backstabs. But I also had a ton of caster abilities. I had a spell I had to recast every 7 fucking minutes to buff my group. Luckily Sony read a thread about making nonCasters spells a toggle. Cuz man it was annoying, I didn't like playing spell casters at the time, I wanted to be a sneaky pick pocketing rogue! Wait.. My sneak's kind of lame in EQ2 and I couldn't pick pocket a damn thing.
The servers weren't ever that populated either. The RP was okay from time to time. The lack of PvP at the beginning was a big mistake.
Despite the touted customization everyone ended up looking the same anyway. The proportions on the humans were hidious. There's 3 types of leather and heavy armor and it just gets recolored for 50 more levels. Oh wait Sony added the apperance slots and a pay store.
Then all the WoW changes came along. Now my warlock and my rogue played exactly the same... Button mash, button mash. Oh wait SoE's patching and changing all the stats again.. Oh now I have to pay for Master craft skills rather than earning the free one here and there every 6 levels or so.
EQ2 is a pretty game that sucks.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
EQ2 probably would have been about the same as it is now..
Bad Engine
Bad Combat
Lack of variety on armors/ weapons / particles
Uninspiring world design
Classes to closely mirrored the other classes in the same archtype
The game is ugly in motion
Ect.
Well stated! I have to admit I couldn't agree more.
END OF LINE_
~V
@OP
I really don't think so. I played at launch and it was pretty awful. The list of offenses is pretty long, so I am not going to get into it. Besides, for all intents and purposes that game doesn't even exist anymore.
In-fact, after WoW came out, EQII went through a few patches and at least 1 major overhaul to make it more like WoW. Deny it all you like, but I was there for the whole thing. It was plain for all to see, though perhaps a bit clearer to me because I was playing both games simultaneously. That's about the same time it's *stable* popularity started to rise. Popularity at launch is hardly worth noting.
Combat has always had a very disconnected feeling, and movement does not feel crisp. It can make executing complicated strategies extremely frustrating. That said, I have really enjoyed my time in EQII; launch not withstanding. Below the surface, there is a truly fun game there. Yet, I believe the pressure that WoW exerted caused some of the changes which made it better (and some which made it worse). So, without WoW I think we'd be more likely to be playing something that came out before EQ2 or some other game which would have come out after, sans WoW-flavored influence.
[EDIT: Clarifying to whom I was responding.]
I can't believe how many of you QUOTED this guy and did not point out EVE is not a browser game.
What the hell? Oh, and SWG was trash WELL before WoW came out. Quit pulling stuff out of your ass. *rolls eyes*
MOST OF eq2 RAIDS are tank and spank. Vanilla WoW still has it beat on raiding dynamics even to this day. I play Eq2 over WoW, and WoW is very easy. But the raid dynamics are much mich more interesting.
I keep reading the same things from the negative folks over and over - bad game, broken, blah blah blah - but you never say anything positive about the games you like. There are games you like, aren't there? Just don't tell me how great WoW is, 'cause it'll take an hour to get the vomit out of my keyboard...
There...I said something; now be quiet while I kill this.
Don't forget that a lot of players had to buy new rigs to play EQ2 an that was not the case with WoW.
Yeah...part of me does agree. However, I also have to wonder what would have really been different if WoW had never come out. I'm not entirely sure games like SWTOR, TERA and Rifts would be in development.
No. It was too buggy and small. If it would have released in the shape it was when EoF released things would have been different but initially it had too low budget and not enough development time.
SOE are bad on fixing bugs, it took them something like 4 years just to fix the lag in Neriak to mention one thing. Blizzard have always been better on things like that. That isn't something that helps either.
It would probably have been somewhat bigger until LOTRO released but never over 500K subs.
I think that someone else would made a better remake of EQ anyways, but the thought is interesting. Suddenly would Guildwars 8,5 millions copies been one of the largest. It is not impossible that games like Guildwars and Lineage would have influenced the genre more, and AC for that matter.
EQ2 is a nice game now but it took a few years to get it like that. If SOE would have waited longer with the release it could have been a lot larger today but it wasn't Wows fault but SOE who messed up.