For MMOs, not very competitive at all. I see it as a coop system that i enjoy mostly with my friends, but I sitll get that working in the world with a lot of other players against the "world" so to speak.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I suppose to a degree when I participate in PvP I'm competitive. Only within the confines of the goals we're trying to accomplish though.
Not like I ever trash talk anyone or brag about what we've done outside of joking around with the people I participated in the event with. Frankly, much as I enjoy PvP I'm rather awful at it so I would imagine I would look like a fool if I did.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I have zero interest in any kind of player competition, I'm playing to have fun, not to win because there is no victory in an MMO. Being victorious means surviving. You never reach a point where you win the whole game so it's foolish to pretend that you ever can.
I disagree, grouping up with 50 or 100 of your friends that you play and talk with everyday to fight against your rivals, opponents you know very well, either respect or hate (probably the latter) having a huge epic fight for control of a raid boss spawn lasting 10 minutes. Winning it, getting to kill the raid boss while they get nothing...
That is victory and nothing else in a MMO compares to it.
That's not victory, that's being selfish. That's using people for your own advancement. Personally, I view that as being a jerk.
First, I don't want a cash shop in the game because IMO, it turns the fantasy world into the shopping mall, and I don't care for that.
As far as competition, I"m definitley not competing to race to the level cap. I measure my character in hours played, not days.
So my character at 100 hours played, is going to be roughly the same as your character at 100 hours played, if there is no cash shop.
I really don't care if I play that 100 hours in a month, or a year, 100 hours is still 100 hours, and 14.95 a month is cheap so there's no need to cram the 100 hours into a couple of weeks of game play to save a few dollars.
As far as PvP, I don't care about ladders or guilds, or anything like that.
However, it's fun to compete to take over an objective, like the forts or the Darkness Falls, In DAoC.
If there's nothing to take over, the PvP seems pointless, again since I don't care about ladders or anything like that.
I have zero interest in any kind of player competition, I'm playing to have fun, not to win because there is no victory in an MMO. Being victorious means surviving. You never reach a point where you win the whole game so it's foolish to pretend that you ever can.
I disagree, grouping up with 50 or 100 of your friends that you play and talk with everyday to fight against your rivals, opponents you know very well, either respect or hate (probably the latter) having a huge epic fight for control of a raid boss spawn lasting 10 minutes. Winning it, getting to kill the raid boss while they get nothing...
That is victory and nothing else in a MMO compares to it.
That's not victory, that's being selfish. That's using people for your own advancement. Personally, I view that as being a jerk.
Your mileage may vary.
I think you can only be a "jerk" in an MMORPG by saying rude things to other players, and then of course they can put you on ignore.
If you don't like anything else in teh game, then you are saying the developers designed a bad game.
You can easily design a game where players cannot fight over a boss mob. If that's the game you like, then play one of those.
If you dont' like players fighting over a boss mob, then don't play a game that is designed to allow that.
I'ts like complaining that a First Person Shooter allows people to shoot you. What jerks for shooting you!
I don't want an end game. That doesn't mean I don't want an end to skill/level gain, because when you have an unending system of skill/level gain characters just keep moving up in power.
What I want is a game where the world continues, and what I do continues in that sense. I might become richer, I might lose some wealth, but I have a never ending game in that. I might also discover a new spell, not more powerfull, just something that allows me to do a new magical thing. I might build a library, and get new books to place. I might discover the secret to making a ship that's just as fast as another of it's kind, but can hold more cargo while being slightly less manueverable. I might discover the means to breed a horse that's a bit faster yet just as strong, or can run for longer periods of time before tiring and losing some speed. I might discover a new weapon special attack skill. I might find a new ancient artifact to decorate my home with. There are millions of ways to keep a game going after a player reaches maxed skills/levels by building the right game so that the world and the story continues. And by doing so, you can remove the level grind and all the bad associations with it.
I agree with you on your game world description, and my WoW endgame experience was underwhelming. I ended up rolling an alt army, piddling around, and ultimately, quitting (although endgame wasn't my only or even primary reason for leaving, doing the same dungeons over and over for badges to catch up to the Joneses didn't help).
That said, I also enjoy being the first to craft or find a particular item, or to craft or find something at a lower level than many do, or to use the item (or skill, as the case may be) in a cleverer way than others have figured out how to use it. But often I decide to do things in games to obtain things that aren't competitive in any way. If I decide I want to have a particular skill or item, even if the skill is entertaining but useless or the item is purely decorative and no one else is likely to ever see it, then I can spend many happy hours absorbed in obtaining it, if the game well done enough to not make it a borefest.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
So, does it matter to you how you are doing compared to others, or are you in it just to have fun, or is competition a big part of that fun?
It's like any RL sport to me. If i play, i want to win, i want my team to win, i want us to be challenged. But at the same time, it's a hobby - I am not a professional athlete and I only have x time to invest in playing / training. Someone's always going to be better. That's ok.
So i can't really answer your question with a clear yes or no. Like everyone else, I want to have fun. Competition contributes to fun up to a point, after which it starts to detract from the fun. I think that point is different for everyone and that one of the most important things you can do for yourself in a MMORPG is find a group of people to play with for whom the point is in roughly the same place.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I have zero interest in any kind of player competition, I'm playing to have fun, not to win because there is no victory in an MMO. Being victorious means surviving. You never reach a point where you win the whole game so it's foolish to pretend that you ever can.
I disagree, grouping up with 50 or 100 of your friends that you play and talk with everyday to fight against your rivals, opponents you know very well, either respect or hate (probably the latter) having a huge epic fight for control of a raid boss spawn lasting 10 minutes. Winning it, getting to kill the raid boss while they get nothing...
That is victory and nothing else in a MMO compares to it.
That's not victory, that's being selfish. That's using people for your own advancement. Personally, I view that as being a jerk.
Your mileage may vary.
Rofl, so if some sports team beats another are they being selfish jerks using the other team for their own advancement? It's called competition, some people enjoy it.
I think you can only be a "jerk" in an MMORPG by saying rude things to other players, and then of course they can put you on ignore.
If you don't like anything else in teh game, then you are saying the developers designed a bad game.
You can easily design a game where players cannot fight over a boss mob. If that's the game you like, then play one of those.
If you dont' like players fighting over a boss mob, then don't play a game that is designed to allow that.
I'ts like complaining that a First Person Shooter allows people to shoot you. What jerks for shooting you!
Well, that's just the game design.
There's a difference between having people shoot at you and having one guy standing over your respawn spot blowing you away over and over and over and over just for the hell of it. One is part of the game, the other is someone being an asshole.
And just because a game allows someone to get away with abuse doesn't mean that people ought to be encouraged to do so. Sure, just about every game lets you train a ton of pissed-off mobs into a low-level group over and over again. Should you? Or are you being a prick? Lots of games won't stop you from kill-stealing or ganking first level characters who have no chance in hell against you, but should you?
This isn't game design, it's areas where the design of the game allows unscrupulous people to take advantage of others. It's loopholes in the game.
Rofl, so if some sports team beats another are they being selfish jerks using the other team for their own advancement? It's called competition, some people enjoy it.
No, but he was talking about within a particular team. If one player on a team in baseball cold-cocks another so he can catch the ball, that's being a jerk and he'll probably get thrown out of the game. If someone is using others for their own personal glory, they're not being part of a team, they're being a glory-hound and they deserve to get tossed to the curb.
I'm highly competitive and do/have run pvp guilds but you have to have some perspective. At the end of the day they are not sports, jobs, or anything worth getting in a rage over. Ultimately it's great to roll the opposition but its all about the fun and the lulz at the end of the day.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I like competition in games that warrant competition which, in my opinion, many games rarely do.
In most games, MMOs or FPSes alike, usually ones that are class based, all classes have strengths and weaknesses which is what the developers like to call, balance.
In many FPS games, theres usually one type of weapon or drop that changes the balance of said game. MMOs have this same sort of thing when it comes to gear selection. In these instances, player skill actually means very little.
In a game like Mount & Blade, where upgrades do help, but overall a player can effectively go toe to toe with any class, while being pretty much any class, and win is worthwhile for competition. Likewise, in team based games, I don't mind being competitive where my role is concerned like on a game such as Global Agenda.
On many games though, where the guy who ran to the rocket launcher wins, or the guy who had no work, or school, got to sit around and play all day to receive that item thats is well overpowered, I don't get competitive on those games, those games are just for entertainment. Though -- winning is always fun.
don't mind a little competition, but when it becomes exclusionary I lose all interest in it. A little competition is a good thing. It keeps you motivated to reach a goal.
That said, I'd much rather just enjoy a game without worrying how I stack up compared to other players.
Nicely said! I love to be motivated and I love having something I can set as a goal for myself, whether it be a kill count goal, a new boss defeated, whatever...but not at the expense of enjoyment.
Rofl, so if some sports team beats another are they being selfish jerks using the other team for their own advancement? It's called competition, some people enjoy it.
No, but he was talking about within a particular team. If one player on a team in baseball cold-cocks another so he can catch the ball, that's being a jerk and he'll probably get thrown out of the game. If someone is using others for their own personal glory, they're not being part of a team, they're being a glory-hound and they deserve to get tossed to the curb.
Forgive me but I fail to see the relevance of that to anything in this thread.
Comments
For MMOs, not very competitive at all. I see it as a coop system that i enjoy mostly with my friends, but I sitll get that working in the world with a lot of other players against the "world" so to speak.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I suppose to a degree when I participate in PvP I'm competitive. Only within the confines of the goals we're trying to accomplish though.
Not like I ever trash talk anyone or brag about what we've done outside of joking around with the people I participated in the event with. Frankly, much as I enjoy PvP I'm rather awful at it so I would imagine I would look like a fool if I did.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
That's not victory, that's being selfish. That's using people for your own advancement. Personally, I view that as being a jerk.
Your mileage may vary.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
First, I don't want a cash shop in the game because IMO, it turns the fantasy world into the shopping mall, and I don't care for that.
As far as competition, I"m definitley not competing to race to the level cap. I measure my character in hours played, not days.
So my character at 100 hours played, is going to be roughly the same as your character at 100 hours played, if there is no cash shop.
I really don't care if I play that 100 hours in a month, or a year, 100 hours is still 100 hours, and 14.95 a month is cheap so there's no need to cram the 100 hours into a couple of weeks of game play to save a few dollars.
As far as PvP, I don't care about ladders or guilds, or anything like that.
However, it's fun to compete to take over an objective, like the forts or the Darkness Falls, In DAoC.
If there's nothing to take over, the PvP seems pointless, again since I don't care about ladders or anything like that.
I think you can only be a "jerk" in an MMORPG by saying rude things to other players, and then of course they can put you on ignore.
If you don't like anything else in teh game, then you are saying the developers designed a bad game.
You can easily design a game where players cannot fight over a boss mob. If that's the game you like, then play one of those.
If you dont' like players fighting over a boss mob, then don't play a game that is designed to allow that.
I'ts like complaining that a First Person Shooter allows people to shoot you. What jerks for shooting you!
Well, that's just the game design.
I agree with you on your game world description, and my WoW endgame experience was underwhelming. I ended up rolling an alt army, piddling around, and ultimately, quitting (although endgame wasn't my only or even primary reason for leaving, doing the same dungeons over and over for badges to catch up to the Joneses didn't help).
That said, I also enjoy being the first to craft or find a particular item, or to craft or find something at a lower level than many do, or to use the item (or skill, as the case may be) in a cleverer way than others have figured out how to use it. But often I decide to do things in games to obtain things that aren't competitive in any way. If I decide I want to have a particular skill or item, even if the skill is entertaining but useless or the item is purely decorative and no one else is likely to ever see it, then I can spend many happy hours absorbed in obtaining it, if the game well done enough to not make it a borefest.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
It's like any RL sport to me. If i play, i want to win, i want my team to win, i want us to be challenged. But at the same time, it's a hobby - I am not a professional athlete and I only have x time to invest in playing / training. Someone's always going to be better. That's ok.
So i can't really answer your question with a clear yes or no. Like everyone else, I want to have fun. Competition contributes to fun up to a point, after which it starts to detract from the fun. I think that point is different for everyone and that one of the most important things you can do for yourself in a MMORPG is find a group of people to play with for whom the point is in roughly the same place.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Rofl, so if some sports team beats another are they being selfish jerks using the other team for their own advancement? It's called competition, some people enjoy it.
Everyone has a soul of competition,the only difference is the level of it
There's a difference between having people shoot at you and having one guy standing over your respawn spot blowing you away over and over and over and over just for the hell of it. One is part of the game, the other is someone being an asshole.
And just because a game allows someone to get away with abuse doesn't mean that people ought to be encouraged to do so. Sure, just about every game lets you train a ton of pissed-off mobs into a low-level group over and over again. Should you? Or are you being a prick? Lots of games won't stop you from kill-stealing or ganking first level characters who have no chance in hell against you, but should you?
This isn't game design, it's areas where the design of the game allows unscrupulous people to take advantage of others. It's loopholes in the game.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
No, but he was talking about within a particular team. If one player on a team in baseball cold-cocks another so he can catch the ball, that's being a jerk and he'll probably get thrown out of the game. If someone is using others for their own personal glory, they're not being part of a team, they're being a glory-hound and they deserve to get tossed to the curb.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I'm highly competitive and do/have run pvp guilds but you have to have some perspective. At the end of the day they are not sports, jobs, or anything worth getting in a rage over. Ultimately it's great to roll the opposition but its all about the fun and the lulz at the end of the day.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I like competition in games that warrant competition which, in my opinion, many games rarely do.
In most games, MMOs or FPSes alike, usually ones that are class based, all classes have strengths and weaknesses which is what the developers like to call, balance.
In many FPS games, theres usually one type of weapon or drop that changes the balance of said game. MMOs have this same sort of thing when it comes to gear selection. In these instances, player skill actually means very little.
In a game like Mount & Blade, where upgrades do help, but overall a player can effectively go toe to toe with any class, while being pretty much any class, and win is worthwhile for competition. Likewise, in team based games, I don't mind being competitive where my role is concerned like on a game such as Global Agenda.
On many games though, where the guy who ran to the rocket launcher wins, or the guy who had no work, or school, got to sit around and play all day to receive that item thats is well overpowered, I don't get competitive on those games, those games are just for entertainment. Though -- winning is always fun.
Nicely said! I love to be motivated and I love having something I can set as a goal for myself, whether it be a kill count goal, a new boss defeated, whatever...but not at the expense of enjoyment.
Forgive me but I fail to see the relevance of that to anything in this thread.