Don't worry people once GW2 comes out most people will leave this game and LOTRO.A one time price for all the content you can handle and a hands down better game peroid!!
Don't worry people once GW2 comes out most people will leave this game and LOTRO.A one time price for all the content you can handle and a hands down better game peroid!!
That's speculation on a game that isn't even released. Granted, I'm definitely getting GW2 at release, but I doubt I will ever stop playing LOTRO, and if EQ2ex is good, I will likely play it on and off as well.
@Smokeysong: What that 9.5% means is that they are TRACKING 9.5% of the population as unemployed. Actual estimates are much higher with estimates as high as 15% or more. Some people like me aren't considered as part of the 'unemployed,' along with anyone on short or long term disability, students, etc. etc. Read up on what unemployment means.... but yeah, I'd love to have a J O B. There's just too many expenses and not enough time for everything else in my life running a business.
For me there is no question what is better, SOE's or Turbine's solution for F2P - BOTH are BS!
I even try them cuz all talking about it's only cosmetic, it's only vanity fluff isn't right. Those cosmetic fans aren't so many, and even they don't buy new dress or pony every day. To milk ya dry from ya money they need to put something essential, if not gear then hard benefits giving potions that ya use and buy every day, every raid. And like I remember raids in "normal" LOTRO when in guild's memo was wrote how many which pots and food and tokens everybody MUST have, so soon ifa ya wanna participate in new LOTRO's raid there would be requirements how many pots ya must BUY. And as already leaked new 10 sec power and morale potions go for 175 TP for 5 pcs. Means if ya sub or lifer for ya "free" 500 TP per month ya get 14 potions. And if raid reqs are to have 50 pcs each then ya pay 175 USD for 100 pots.
Very very free game it will be. Or they excuse - if no money ya must not raid at all. :P
My only problem with the extended service is that the gold membership, which costs the same as a regular sub, gives you less on the extended server. That's the ONLY incentive to starting a "real" sub and playing on live servers. However, that incentive is basically pissed on by the fact that you'd have to start from scratch on the live servers - something many aren't really willing to do.
Since they've changed the platinum membership, it's perfect in my eyes. Costs a bit more than gold, but gives you everything the sub does + a copy of the newest expansion as it comes out + the 500 SC stipend. Gold should just be the current live sub. There's no reason to shaft a person like that. As for Silver and Bronze, essentially more little things to buy. Broker access, bag slots, -classes-, etc. Also, split up races so they can be bought individually. 750 isn't bad for 3 races, but the combinations current don't make a lot of sense. So just make it 250 per race, and leave it at that.
Anyway, that's how I'd have it setup. Hopefully as beta starts, they'll actually respond more to everyone's concerns, and tweak things accordingly. They did tweak the platinum membership already, which is a good thing, but the silence since then is deafening.
Then the question is what do you get when thousands of people have been paying for a product for 3 or more years, and then you get it for free?
they make you buy ingame things to make any progress like all them "free" mmo's do......i think people give more money a month on those things then the normal 15 buck you pay for a subscription.
The costs are more hidden......2 buck for this, 3bucks for that......at the end of the month you might give out more then you would normaly subscribe....
EQIIex's F2P model is not F2P at all, as others have pointed out it is just an expanded trial.
Unless SoE grow a pair & impliment a more open F2P model this is not going to be a success at all, it's way to restricted to stand up on it's own....but that may be what SoE want.
It's really hard to see the point of this venture at all.
The screen shots you had in your article are all from SF expansion. Something you don't get with the free to play unless you pay the 200 dollars up front for a years game play to have the gold membership, and then I have to ask what's free about 200 dollars.
Not to mention they gimped down and only gave 8 classes for the free guys and is more constrictive than what folks will get with ddo and lotro as far as things go.
This is an experiment, one that I hope blows up in the face of soe.
I play eq2 and I can see that this does nothing for the live servers.
You dont need to buy fluff, and you dont need to use the broker, you can still sell your stuff to the vendors.
80 levels and 100's of zones for free and you still complain lol...
It's not all fluff, there are going to be all kinds of items for sale.
Also, and a lot of people don't understand this concept but, please think this through. If you were to go to a car dealership that had advertised free cars and pointed you to a car frame minus the engine, tires, and steering wheel would you not laugh? And on top of that, the crooked salesmen says, "well sure, you can have that for free or we can add the engine, tires, and steering wheel for $15,000."
Is EQ2X free? Sure...if you want half a game. In any other industry this would be called a scam, but no, not here.
Frog in water anyone? Enjoy your "hot tub".
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
You dont need to buy fluff, and you dont need to use the broker, you can still sell your stuff to the vendors.
80 levels and 100's of zones for free and you still complain lol...
It's not all fluff, there are going to be all kinds of items for sale.
Also, and a lot of people don't understand this concept but, please think this through. If you were to go to a car dealership that had advertised free cars and pointed you to a car frame minus the engine, tires, and steering wheel would you not laugh? And on top of that, the crooked salesmen says, "well sure, you can have that for free or we can add the engine, tires, and steering wheel for $15,000."
Is EQ2X free? Sure...if you want half a game. In any other industry this would be called a scam, but no, not here.
Frog in water anyone? Enjoy your "hot tub".
Yes sadly gamers will accept all kinds of things that most people find unacceptable in other aspects of their lives. Look how they cheer for cash shops in P2P games and explain how it doesnt affect you if you dont use them. The xbox 360 fail rate at one time was over 50% and the fans were impressed with how soon they were repaired and returned never giving a thought to the fact that they were released in a state that would be unacceptable in most products consumers buy. Yeah, gamers are gullible to say the least.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
You dont need to buy fluff, and you dont need to use the broker, you can still sell your stuff to the vendors.
80 levels and 100's of zones for free and you still complain lol...
Well they loaded the store full of armor, weapons and all kinds of stuff. Unlike live where its mostly fluff the store in extended will be full of stuff you can use, and will need to advance. So its just not fluff were talking about.
think its your goal to piss off ppl who support P2P model, atleast you for the first time succeded that with me.
the fact ppl call doom n gloom over the F2P server is the fact its a seperate server and will leave the old servers without new blood.
Yes, but if the allowed people to play at the same servers it would totally kill the economy on the old servers. I for one refuse to play on the same server as people who can buy good gear for money, particularly when I even can't get that gear.
And allowing people to go from F2P to P2P servers are as bad (at least if they are close to max level, low levels chars with gear for their levels poses no threat to anyone), people buy all junk they can get and then move to the P2P server.
This is not really a good solution either but it is still better than the alternative. Allowing people to move from F2P to P2P without their gear might be better, maybe giving them a standard budget gear instead.
I remember when the *Cash* servers came out.. Where you could buy characters and items for real money.. Oh the glorious flaming and uproar that came with those.. And yet they went through and now you dont hear anything about it..
think its your goal to piss off ppl who support P2P model, atleast you for the first time succeded that with me.
the fact ppl call doom n gloom over the F2P server is the fact its a seperate server and will leave the old servers without new blood.
Yes, but if the allowed people to play at the same servers it would totally kill the economy on the old servers. I for one refuse to play on the same server as people who can buy good gear for money, particularly when I even can't get that gear.
And allowing people to go from F2P to P2P servers are as bad (at least if they are close to max level, low levels chars with gear for their levels poses no threat to anyone), people buy all junk they can get and then move to the P2P server.
This is not really a good solution either but it is still better than the alternative. Allowing people to move from F2P to P2P without their gear might be better, maybe giving them a standard budget gear instead.
Yes it is a problem. Allowing people with CS gear to transfer to P2P servers is no different than loading the P2P cash shop with advantage items. A gear penalty at transfer could work and the wailing of the holders of the +4 crit credit cards would be worth seeing as well.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
"Its obvious MMO worlds is going towards Turbine concept of F2P , lets call it "Western F2P" " -- Lobotomist
If by MMO worlds, you mean the mmorpg market ... then no you are absolutely wrong. The sky is not falling, we are simply seeing less profitable titles exploring new options.
"If not. Sony Online will probably close doors soon anyway." -- Lobotomist
Are you insane? Sony Online is going to close their doors, as in shut down? Where the hell do you people come up with this crap.
"think its your goal to piss off ppl who support P2P model, atleast you for the first time succeded that with me." -- Hedeon
Yep, I agree .. I have always quietly supported but disagreed with Richards articles; this one just feels like an attempt to piss me off though.
"I am telling you that SOE wants to get rid of the paid subscription model. They will slowly let the old EQ2 die. Think I am wrong just wait until 12 - 18 months from now and see if the original EQ2 is still around." --- kb4blu
You are wrong, if they wanted to get rid of the subcription based model they wouldn't be releaseing new titles under the SUBSCRIPTION model.
"That said, the F2P concept I wouldn't be against except again they haven't made a logically way to funnel those players to the P2P servers. " -- Ziboo
Which is a huge issue, they need to release some sort of plan on how to deal with keeping the P2P side alive. If they do not funnel the f2p in at some point, the p2p servers will die.
"Its not very suprising considering general malaise of this uncertainty and possible incompetence, seems to saturate the very core of the whole SOE corporation. It seems that SOE is very much the Land of Misfit Toys of the MMO genere. " --- farginwar
Care to back any of that up ? I don't know where you and others get off riping on SOE non-stop. Yes I played SWG PRE Cu and Nge .... the game wasn't as awe inspiring as all us vets like to make it out to be. Eq and Eq2 have always been quality titles, while Eq2 had some growing pains around launch... it still had its roots in pretty firmly. Planetside was amazing back in its hayday, and the only gripe I have with Soe is failing to bail it out of its poor exspansion. I would purchase a Sony title before any other developer out there .. Sony makes the titles with the quality I have come to exspect from this market. What other company has a track record as long, or as prestigious as SOE ? ( You better not say NCSoft )
I remember when the *Cash* servers came out.. Where you could buy characters and items for real money.. Oh the glorious flaming and uproar that came with those.. And yet they went through and now you dont hear anything about it..
This reminds me a lot of that...
They still exist, Im not sure about the player bases on them, the bazar servers were suposed to be the fix for soe problems. I guess it was not so much of a fix lol.
I remember when the *Cash* servers came out.. Where you could buy characters and items for real money.. Oh the glorious flaming and uproar that came with those.. And yet they went through and now you dont hear anything about it..
This reminds me a lot of that...
Agreed. Back when soe said RMT in no way shape or form ever be put into the EQ games. Those silly people over reacted so much and those servers are so dead now.
Then came legends of norrath...
Then came station cash...
Then came eq2 extended...
I sure hope people don't make an uproar when soe decided to implement their next big RMT initiative into the EQ games.
[1] "I am telling you that SOE wants to get rid of the paid subscription model. They will slowly let the old EQ2 die. Think I am wrong just wait until 12 - 18 months from now and see if the original EQ2 is still around." --- kb4blu
You are wrong, if they wanted to get rid of the subcription based model they wouldn't be releaseing new titles under the SUBSCRIPTION model.
[2] "That said, the F2P concept I wouldn't be against except again they haven't made a logically way to funnel those players to the P2P servers. " -- Ziboo
Which is a huge issue, they need to release some sort of plan on how to deal with keeping the P2P side alive. If they do not funnel the f2p in at some point, the p2p servers will die.
[3]"Its not very suprising considering general malaise of this uncertainty and possible incompetence, seems to saturate the very core of the whole SOE corporation. It seems that SOE is very much the Land of Misfit Toys of the MMO genere. " --- farginwar
Care to back any of that up ? I don't know where you and others get off riping on SOE non-stop. Yes I played SWG PRE Cu and Nge .... the game wasn't as awe inspiring as all us vets like to make it out to be. Eq and Eq2 have always been quality titles, while Eq2 had some growing pains around launch... it still had its roots in pretty firmly. Planetside was amazing back in its hayday, and the only gripe I have with Soe is failing to bail it out of its poor exspansion. I would purchase a Sony title before any other developer out there .. Sony makes the titles with the quality I have come to exspect from this market. What other company has a track record as long, or as prestigious as SOE ? ( You better not say NCSoft )
[1]
“Right now our revenue is almost all subscriptions,” John Smedley, the unit’s president, said in an interview. “In two years, we would like to see no more than 50 percent of our revenue coming from subscriptions, and five years from now we think less than 10 percent of our revenue will come from subscription sources.”-John Smedly [LINK]
I think it is pretty clear the direction Smedbucks wants to take this company. It is pretty clear that EQ2 has stagnated for a long time now and this change is centered on trying to revive the game. I don't think soe wants to kill the subscription servers as much as they desperatly want to convert them all to Subsctription + Cash shop servers. EQ2X is just another step in that direction.
SOE tried to do it with station exchange and players stopped that. Then they tried it with legends of norath and then again with station cash. None of them had the massive success that Smedley wanted, so this is just the next step.
Full blown RMT is coming to EQ2 one way or another.
[2]
This is a great point. I don't think soe has detailed a plan to funnel players to the live servers, because they want the cash shop servers to thrive and become, as the senior producer put it, "the place to be".
[3]
Lets just look at each game soe has made and the results ok?
Everquest: bought from Verrant. It was already a success before SOE was even founded. Even though verrant was a sony studio it was run with much different expectations, budget and guidelines. There is a very big difference between verant EQ and soe EQ in terms of approach, design and support. It didn't take to long for soe to push players into a formal boycott of the next expansion due to the horrible condition of the game.
Everquest II: Has always under performed and was merging servers within a year of release. It has undergone countless direction shifts and is on its FIFTH leadership change. The game fails to pull in marketshare, because it is a mess. So much wasted potential in this game.
SWG: This game has always been an example of poor workmanship, lack of followthrough and complete intolerrance to the customers. It still remains the single biggest example of "not to do's" in mmo design.
Planetside: Not a bad game until soe screwed it up with all the poorly thoughtout changes and expansion. It remains a living dead mmo that hasn't even been updated to work with windows Vista.
Everquest Mac: Another title that has been left abandonded, but soe will still happily take money for.
Everquest online adventures: See EQ Mac
The Matrix online: Purchased and left to rot. Closed down
Vanguard: Another purchased mmo that has only declined since soe acquired it.
Sure looks like the island of misfit toys to me. Other than 1 game that was developed before soe existed.
Yup, all us arrogant jerks, thinking a person who can't afford to pay $15/month for a GAME should be doing something else. Here that poor person is, sitting there with his computer, with internet access, and copy of the game, but can't afford $15/month. What is he to do?
I guess he'll just have to go watch TV. It's free, right?
Can you say J O B ?
Something interesting here - we have a 9.5% unemployment rate right now. What that means is, 90.5% of the people who are tracked have jobs that are looking for work. The other 9.5% can't find the kind of job they are looking for. It doesn't mean they can't find a job period, it means they were an electrical engineer, for example, but they can't find another job as an electrical engineer, so they are on unemployment. Jobs are out there to be had, and if you really can't afford to pay $15/month for a game then I suggest you either have much more important things to think about, Like figuring out how to make a living and doing that, or you aren't willing, or aren't being creative enough to get the money to pay for MMOG gaming.
Don't get me wrong; a lot of people were hurt by the downturn and the crazy stuff that happened with the financial industry. I feel for them. You make the kind of money an EE makes - and deserves, imo - then flipping burgers in not going to help much when it comes to paying the kind of mortgage you likely have. All that has nothing to do with playing a silly little game though (unless your job centers around the gaming industry, of course); it has to do with the things that come BEFORE you think about gaming. Gamng is what you do when all the other stuff is taken care of.
A lot of kids these days get more than that for their weekly allowance - AFTER their cell phone and WoW account is paid for. The fact is, when someone says they can't afford $15 month for a game, what they really mean is "I just spend all my money on stuff, and when it comes to the end of the pay period or my allowance none of it is left, so I can't pay another $15 for a game." They could if they managed their money better, quit buying their sodas at 7-11 and bought them by the 12-pack at the grocery store, used filtered water rather than buy bottled water, went to 2 movies a month rather than 4. All kinds of ways to trim a budget that isn't unlimited - and they are pretty much all limited in some way. (Those fat cats that treat their millions like they'll never run out eventually find out they can, and will, often.)
The people that are able to read these posts are not likely to be in the category of people who legitimately can't afford $15/month, and if they are, they would do themselves a favor by seriously considering their situation.
There's a difference between "can't" and "won't".
guess what, where I come from unemployed ppl can afford playing an MMO no problem there, even if you for sure is right that the time could be spended wiser if you are. why do you tell me this ?
is 15$ alot?`depends on what you spend them on....and for 1 game 50$ + 15 $/month + more to come if you let them IS alot.
guess what, I have absolutely no financial problems, at the currrent point in my life Im able to put about 1000$ away as saving each month, not that you will believe me cause you feel oh so special that you are allowed to spend way too much on a game....
am very well aware alot of ppl with very long educations at this point just refuse to get a job, as it wasnt what they were studying, infact alot of those Ive been in school with never even had a job, just been studying for years and years, me on the other hand have a short education for something needed, even if not a social high ranked one.
read your own post as someone else wrote it toward you and then look yourself in the mirror....
"I am telling you that SOE wants to get rid of the paid subscription model. They will slowly let the old EQ2 die. Think I am wrong just wait until 12 - 18 months from now and see if the original EQ2 is still around." --- kb4blu
You are wrong, if they wanted to get rid of the subcription based model they wouldn't be releaseing new titles under the SUBSCRIPTION model.
if the EQ2x server become a success I d not be so sure they will be pure subscribtion based, tho not agreed with the guy saying live servers will die in 12-18 months, but they are trying to keep new players away from the live servers, by closing down the trial for them as yesterdays news, there is even a little detail like live server forum got a link to eq2x, but not the other way around. ..but hey the link to live servers is on the front page still right....small steps always.
so yes it is something they go at strong, they dont rip the carpet away because that would be too obvious, they playing mr. nice guy just they try get new player to the new EQ2x server
as alot already said explained already this is NOT a F2P model. its P2P + cash shop both vanity, special consumables and gear. even if not thaat powerful....they will be when eq3xxx, DCUOxxx and the agencyxxx come.
sure Smedley would love if EQ2x became a hit financially and if it does, I bet you it will be their future model, its not a way to save a "dieing" game and get new players in at a smaller cost, they try to get more money out of you....they will have the fully functional cash shops builded into their upcoming titles already, no doubt. so would be easy to make this kind of model.
[1] "I am telling you that SOE wants to get rid of the paid subscription model. They will slowly let the old EQ2 die. Think I am wrong just wait until 12 - 18 months from now and see if the original EQ2 is still around." --- kb4blu
You are wrong, if they wanted to get rid of the subcription based model they wouldn't be releaseing new titles under the SUBSCRIPTION model.
[2] "That said, the F2P concept I wouldn't be against except again they haven't made a logically way to funnel those players to the P2P servers. " -- Ziboo
Which is a huge issue, they need to release some sort of plan on how to deal with keeping the P2P side alive. If they do not funnel the f2p in at some point, the p2p servers will die.
[3]"Its not very suprising considering general malaise of this uncertainty and possible incompetence, seems to saturate the very core of the whole SOE corporation. It seems that SOE is very much the Land of Misfit Toys of the MMO genere. " --- farginwar
Care to back any of that up ? I don't know where you and others get off riping on SOE non-stop. Yes I played SWG PRE Cu and Nge .... the game wasn't as awe inspiring as all us vets like to make it out to be. Eq and Eq2 have always been quality titles, while Eq2 had some growing pains around launch... it still had its roots in pretty firmly. Planetside was amazing back in its hayday, and the only gripe I have with Soe is failing to bail it out of its poor exspansion. I would purchase a Sony title before any other developer out there .. Sony makes the titles with the quality I have come to exspect from this market. What other company has a track record as long, or as prestigious as SOE ? ( You better not say NCSoft )
[1]
“Right now our revenue is almost all subscriptions,” John Smedley, the unit’s president, said in an interview. “In two years, we would like to see no more than 50 percent of our revenue coming from subscriptions, and five years from now we think less than 10 percent of our revenue will come from subscription sources.”-John Smedly [LINK]
I think it is pretty clear the direction Smedbucks wants to take this company. It is pretty clear that EQ2 has stagnated for a long time now and this change is centered on trying to revive the game. I don't think soe wants to kill the subscription servers as much as they desperatly want to convert them all to Subsctription + Cash shop servers. EQ2X is just another step in that direction.
SOE tried to do it with station exchange and players stopped that. Then they tried it with legends of norath and then again with station cash. None of them had the massive success that Smedley wanted, so this is just the next step.
Full blown RMT is coming to EQ2 one way or another.
[2]
This is a great point. I don't think soe has detailed a plan to funnel players to the live servers, because they want the cash shop servers to thrive and become, as the senior producer put it, "the place to be".
[3]
Lets just look at each game soe has made and the results ok?
Everquest: bought from Verrant. It was already a success before SOE was even founded. Even though verrant was a sony studio it was run with much different expectations, budget and guidelines. There is a very big difference between verant EQ and soe EQ in terms of approach, design and support. It didn't take to long for soe to push players into a formal boycott of the next expansion due to the horrible condition of the game.
Everquest II: Has always under performed and was merging servers within a year of release. It has undergone countless direction shifts and is on its FIFTH leadership change. The game fails to pull in marketshare, because it is a mess. So much wasted potential in this game.
SWG: This game has always been an example of poor workmanship, lack of followthrough and complete intolerrance to the customers. It still remains the single biggest example of "not to do's" in mmo design.
Planetside: Not a bad game until soe screwed it up with all the poorly thoughtout changes and expansion. It remains a living dead mmo that hasn't even been updated to work with windows Vista.
Everquest Mac: Another title that has been left abandonded, but soe will still happily take money for.
Everquest online adventures: See EQ Mac
The Matrix online: Purchased and left to rot. Closed down
Vanguard: Another purchased mmo that has only declined since soe acquired it.
Sure looks like the island of misfit toys to me. Other than 1 game that was developed before soe existed.
1. Thanks for providing the link, I was almost blown away by the comment until I read the entire article and took the quote into context. It makes perfect sense and in no way supports Sonys move to the F2P market as some are suggesting. I will pleasantly say it again ... If Sony was moving away from subscription based models they would NOT be releasing titles with a subscription based model, its a pretty simple point.
3. Verrants EQ was a mess , it was not already a success when SOE took it over. EQ was stumbling along and Sony stepped in to give it the funding, support, and direction it needed to become a wild success.
- Have you played Eq2 since the restructure a few months after launch? The game did not undergo countless direction shifts, lets not go for shock value. Eq2 changed direction one time, during its first few months... I played then and have subscribed for a few months every year since. The game has always had a substantial following, enough to consider it a success.
- Lets not bring SWG into the arguement, the game was before its time hardware wise ; failing to mention most direction and design choice mistakes were not SOE's but LA's. All in all ... SWG was a sucessful mmo, then it was ruined.
- Planetsides exspansion was wonderful for a few months after its launch, and then it was hated. All in all it was a completely sucessful game.
The only legitimate gripe anyone can have with Sony is its failure to continue pumping funds into dead titles : MxO , Vanguard , Potbs.
So Sonys sucess stories are : Everquest, Planetside , Everquest 2 , Free Realms. Thats failing to mention its other ventures that while dead now( or dieing), produced a profit and had a good run at the mmo world. EQ OA(Tons of console players were introduced here) , Vanguard ( With Sonys support ) , Potbs. Vanguard and Potbs would both have been shut down if Sony didn't take the reigns ... its not as if Sony was handed a wonderful product and then they messed it up. Sony took Vanguard, Potbs, and MxO over and for the large part gave them a longer life than they would have had otherwise. They made money off the transactions .... true they stopped funding them, but the end users got alot more time than they would have had.
Sony has the funding, the experience, and the direction to continue to produce quality titles for the mmo community. Sony has indeed stumbled a few times, but given their amount of exposure in the market ... the good far outweighs the bad. You Sony haters are simply being drama llamas.
Everything they do with the EQs 1 & 2 along with some of the f2p games is not much more that quick money and for the most part testing for EQ next they are trying to find out early what works and what doesnt.. it this f2p model works be sure its gonna show up in EQ next
I challenged my reflection to a staring contest....4 days later i won
Comments
Don't worry people once GW2 comes out most people will leave this game and LOTRO.A one time price for all the content you can handle and a hands down better game peroid!!
That's speculation on a game that isn't even released. Granted, I'm definitely getting GW2 at release, but I doubt I will ever stop playing LOTRO, and if EQ2ex is good, I will likely play it on and off as well.
@Smokeysong: What that 9.5% means is that they are TRACKING 9.5% of the population as unemployed. Actual estimates are much higher with estimates as high as 15% or more. Some people like me aren't considered as part of the 'unemployed,' along with anyone on short or long term disability, students, etc. etc. Read up on what unemployment means.... but yeah, I'd love to have a J O B. There's just too many expenses and not enough time for everything else in my life running a business.
For me there is no question what is better, SOE's or Turbine's solution for F2P - BOTH are BS!
I even try them cuz all talking about it's only cosmetic, it's only vanity fluff isn't right. Those cosmetic fans aren't so many, and even they don't buy new dress or pony every day. To milk ya dry from ya money they need to put something essential, if not gear then hard benefits giving potions that ya use and buy every day, every raid. And like I remember raids in "normal" LOTRO when in guild's memo was wrote how many which pots and food and tokens everybody MUST have, so soon ifa ya wanna participate in new LOTRO's raid there would be requirements how many pots ya must BUY. And as already leaked new 10 sec power and morale potions go for 175 TP for 5 pcs. Means if ya sub or lifer for ya "free" 500 TP per month ya get 14 potions. And if raid reqs are to have 50 pcs each then ya pay 175 USD for 100 pots.
Very very free game it will be. Or they excuse - if no money ya must not raid at all. :P
My only problem with the extended service is that the gold membership, which costs the same as a regular sub, gives you less on the extended server. That's the ONLY incentive to starting a "real" sub and playing on live servers. However, that incentive is basically pissed on by the fact that you'd have to start from scratch on the live servers - something many aren't really willing to do.
Since they've changed the platinum membership, it's perfect in my eyes. Costs a bit more than gold, but gives you everything the sub does + a copy of the newest expansion as it comes out + the 500 SC stipend. Gold should just be the current live sub. There's no reason to shaft a person like that. As for Silver and Bronze, essentially more little things to buy. Broker access, bag slots, -classes-, etc. Also, split up races so they can be bought individually. 750 isn't bad for 3 races, but the combinations current don't make a lot of sense. So just make it 250 per race, and leave it at that.
Anyway, that's how I'd have it setup. Hopefully as beta starts, they'll actually respond more to everyone's concerns, and tweak things accordingly. They did tweak the platinum membership already, which is a good thing, but the silence since then is deafening.
they make you buy ingame things to make any progress like all them "free" mmo's do......i think people give more money a month on those things then the normal 15 buck you pay for a subscription.
The costs are more hidden......2 buck for this, 3bucks for that......at the end of the month you might give out more then you would normaly subscribe....
my two cents....
You dont need to buy fluff, and you dont need to use the broker, you can still sell your stuff to the vendors.
80 levels and 100's of zones for free and you still complain lol...
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EQIIex's F2P model is not F2P at all, as others have pointed out it is just an expanded trial.
Unless SoE grow a pair & impliment a more open F2P model this is not going to be a success at all, it's way to restricted to stand up on it's own....but that may be what SoE want.
It's really hard to see the point of this venture at all.
The screen shots you had in your article are all from SF expansion. Something you don't get with the free to play unless you pay the 200 dollars up front for a years game play to have the gold membership, and then I have to ask what's free about 200 dollars.
Not to mention they gimped down and only gave 8 classes for the free guys and is more constrictive than what folks will get with ddo and lotro as far as things go.
This is an experiment, one that I hope blows up in the face of soe.
I play eq2 and I can see that this does nothing for the live servers.
It's not all fluff, there are going to be all kinds of items for sale.
Also, and a lot of people don't understand this concept but, please think this through. If you were to go to a car dealership that had advertised free cars and pointed you to a car frame minus the engine, tires, and steering wheel would you not laugh? And on top of that, the crooked salesmen says, "well sure, you can have that for free or we can add the engine, tires, and steering wheel for $15,000."
Is EQ2X free? Sure...if you want half a game. In any other industry this would be called a scam, but no, not here.
Frog in water anyone? Enjoy your "hot tub".
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Yes sadly gamers will accept all kinds of things that most people find unacceptable in other aspects of their lives. Look how they cheer for cash shops in P2P games and explain how it doesnt affect you if you dont use them. The xbox 360 fail rate at one time was over 50% and the fans were impressed with how soon they were repaired and returned never giving a thought to the fact that they were released in a state that would be unacceptable in most products consumers buy. Yeah, gamers are gullible to say the least.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Its a bit too late for them tbh, graphics are far too dated now and with even the cheapest PC rigs sporting DX11 most will eventually go lotro.
Well they loaded the store full of armor, weapons and all kinds of stuff. Unlike live where its mostly fluff the store in extended will be full of stuff you can use, and will need to advance. So its just not fluff were talking about.
Yes, but if the allowed people to play at the same servers it would totally kill the economy on the old servers. I for one refuse to play on the same server as people who can buy good gear for money, particularly when I even can't get that gear.
And allowing people to go from F2P to P2P servers are as bad (at least if they are close to max level, low levels chars with gear for their levels poses no threat to anyone), people buy all junk they can get and then move to the P2P server.
This is not really a good solution either but it is still better than the alternative. Allowing people to move from F2P to P2P without their gear might be better, maybe giving them a standard budget gear instead.
I remember when the *Cash* servers came out.. Where you could buy characters and items for real money.. Oh the glorious flaming and uproar that came with those.. And yet they went through and now you dont hear anything about it..
This reminds me a lot of that...
Yes it is a problem. Allowing people with CS gear to transfer to P2P servers is no different than loading the P2P cash shop with advantage items. A gear penalty at transfer could work and the wailing of the holders of the +4 crit credit cards would be worth seeing as well.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
"Its obvious MMO worlds is going towards Turbine concept of F2P , lets call it "Western F2P" " -- Lobotomist
If by MMO worlds, you mean the mmorpg market ... then no you are absolutely wrong. The sky is not falling, we are simply seeing less profitable titles exploring new options.
"If not. Sony Online will probably close doors soon anyway." -- Lobotomist
Are you insane? Sony Online is going to close their doors, as in shut down? Where the hell do you people come up with this crap.
"think its your goal to piss off ppl who support P2P model, atleast you for the first time succeded that with me." -- Hedeon
Yep, I agree .. I have always quietly supported but disagreed with Richards articles; this one just feels like an attempt to piss me off though.
"I am telling you that SOE wants to get rid of the paid subscription model. They will slowly let the old EQ2 die. Think I am wrong just wait until 12 - 18 months from now and see if the original EQ2 is still around." --- kb4blu
You are wrong, if they wanted to get rid of the subcription based model they wouldn't be releaseing new titles under the SUBSCRIPTION model.
"That said, the F2P concept I wouldn't be against except again they haven't made a logically way to funnel those players to the P2P servers. " -- Ziboo
Which is a huge issue, they need to release some sort of plan on how to deal with keeping the P2P side alive. If they do not funnel the f2p in at some point, the p2p servers will die.
"Its not very suprising considering general malaise of this uncertainty and possible incompetence, seems to saturate the very core of the whole SOE corporation. It seems that SOE is very much the Land of Misfit Toys of the MMO genere. " --- farginwar
Care to back any of that up ? I don't know where you and others get off riping on SOE non-stop. Yes I played SWG PRE Cu and Nge .... the game wasn't as awe inspiring as all us vets like to make it out to be. Eq and Eq2 have always been quality titles, while Eq2 had some growing pains around launch... it still had its roots in pretty firmly. Planetside was amazing back in its hayday, and the only gripe I have with Soe is failing to bail it out of its poor exspansion. I would purchase a Sony title before any other developer out there .. Sony makes the titles with the quality I have come to exspect from this market. What other company has a track record as long, or as prestigious as SOE ? ( You better not say NCSoft )
They still exist, Im not sure about the player bases on them, the bazar servers were suposed to be the fix for soe problems. I guess it was not so much of a fix lol.
Agreed. Back when soe said RMT in no way shape or form ever be put into the EQ games. Those silly people over reacted so much and those servers are so dead now.
Then came legends of norrath...
Then came station cash...
Then came eq2 extended...
I sure hope people don't make an uproar when soe decided to implement their next big RMT initiative into the EQ games.
[1]
“Right now our revenue is almost all subscriptions,” John Smedley, the unit’s president, said in an interview. “In two years, we would like to see no more than 50 percent of our revenue coming from subscriptions, and five years from now we think less than 10 percent of our revenue will come from subscription sources.”-John Smedly [LINK]
I think it is pretty clear the direction Smedbucks wants to take this company. It is pretty clear that EQ2 has stagnated for a long time now and this change is centered on trying to revive the game. I don't think soe wants to kill the subscription servers as much as they desperatly want to convert them all to Subsctription + Cash shop servers. EQ2X is just another step in that direction.
SOE tried to do it with station exchange and players stopped that. Then they tried it with legends of norath and then again with station cash. None of them had the massive success that Smedley wanted, so this is just the next step.
Full blown RMT is coming to EQ2 one way or another.
[2]
This is a great point. I don't think soe has detailed a plan to funnel players to the live servers, because they want the cash shop servers to thrive and become, as the senior producer put it, "the place to be".
[3]
Lets just look at each game soe has made and the results ok?
Everquest: bought from Verrant. It was already a success before SOE was even founded. Even though verrant was a sony studio it was run with much different expectations, budget and guidelines. There is a very big difference between verant EQ and soe EQ in terms of approach, design and support. It didn't take to long for soe to push players into a formal boycott of the next expansion due to the horrible condition of the game.
Everquest II: Has always under performed and was merging servers within a year of release. It has undergone countless direction shifts and is on its FIFTH leadership change. The game fails to pull in marketshare, because it is a mess. So much wasted potential in this game.
SWG: This game has always been an example of poor workmanship, lack of followthrough and complete intolerrance to the customers. It still remains the single biggest example of "not to do's" in mmo design.
Planetside: Not a bad game until soe screwed it up with all the poorly thoughtout changes and expansion. It remains a living dead mmo that hasn't even been updated to work with windows Vista.
Everquest Mac: Another title that has been left abandonded, but soe will still happily take money for.
Everquest online adventures: See EQ Mac
The Matrix online: Purchased and left to rot. Closed down
Vanguard: Another purchased mmo that has only declined since soe acquired it.
Sure looks like the island of misfit toys to me. Other than 1 game that was developed before soe existed.
guess what, where I come from unemployed ppl can afford playing an MMO no problem there, even if you for sure is right that the time could be spended wiser if you are. why do you tell me this ?
is 15$ alot?`depends on what you spend them on....and for 1 game 50$ + 15 $/month + more to come if you let them IS alot.
guess what, I have absolutely no financial problems, at the currrent point in my life Im able to put about 1000$ away as saving each month, not that you will believe me cause you feel oh so special that you are allowed to spend way too much on a game....
am very well aware alot of ppl with very long educations at this point just refuse to get a job, as it wasnt what they were studying, infact alot of those Ive been in school with never even had a job, just been studying for years and years, me on the other hand have a short education for something needed, even if not a social high ranked one.
read your own post as someone else wrote it toward you and then look yourself in the mirror....
if the EQ2x server become a success I d not be so sure they will be pure subscribtion based, tho not agreed with the guy saying live servers will die in 12-18 months, but they are trying to keep new players away from the live servers, by closing down the trial for them as yesterdays news, there is even a little detail like live server forum got a link to eq2x, but not the other way around. ..but hey the link to live servers is on the front page still right....small steps always.
so yes it is something they go at strong, they dont rip the carpet away because that would be too obvious, they playing mr. nice guy just they try get new player to the new EQ2x server
as alot already said explained already this is NOT a F2P model. its P2P + cash shop both vanity, special consumables and gear. even if not thaat powerful....they will be when eq3xxx, DCUOxxx and the agencyxxx come.
sure Smedley would love if EQ2x became a hit financially and if it does, I bet you it will be their future model, its not a way to save a "dieing" game and get new players in at a smaller cost, they try to get more money out of you....they will have the fully functional cash shops builded into their upcoming titles already, no doubt. so would be easy to make this kind of model.
Another article pimping the F2P model. Is this guy a corp. lackey or something?
If F2P was such a great thing, why did you feel the need to write article after article saying how great it is? Give it a rest already...
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1. Thanks for providing the link, I was almost blown away by the comment until I read the entire article and took the quote into context. It makes perfect sense and in no way supports Sonys move to the F2P market as some are suggesting. I will pleasantly say it again ... If Sony was moving away from subscription based models they would NOT be releasing titles with a subscription based model, its a pretty simple point.
3. Verrants EQ was a mess , it was not already a success when SOE took it over. EQ was stumbling along and Sony stepped in to give it the funding, support, and direction it needed to become a wild success.
- Have you played Eq2 since the restructure a few months after launch? The game did not undergo countless direction shifts, lets not go for shock value. Eq2 changed direction one time, during its first few months... I played then and have subscribed for a few months every year since. The game has always had a substantial following, enough to consider it a success.
- Lets not bring SWG into the arguement, the game was before its time hardware wise ; failing to mention most direction and design choice mistakes were not SOE's but LA's. All in all ... SWG was a sucessful mmo, then it was ruined.
- Planetsides exspansion was wonderful for a few months after its launch, and then it was hated. All in all it was a completely sucessful game.
The only legitimate gripe anyone can have with Sony is its failure to continue pumping funds into dead titles : MxO , Vanguard , Potbs.
So Sonys sucess stories are : Everquest, Planetside , Everquest 2 , Free Realms. Thats failing to mention its other ventures that while dead now( or dieing), produced a profit and had a good run at the mmo world. EQ OA(Tons of console players were introduced here) , Vanguard ( With Sonys support ) , Potbs. Vanguard and Potbs would both have been shut down if Sony didn't take the reigns ... its not as if Sony was handed a wonderful product and then they messed it up. Sony took Vanguard, Potbs, and MxO over and for the large part gave them a longer life than they would have had otherwise. They made money off the transactions .... true they stopped funding them, but the end users got alot more time than they would have had.
Sony has the funding, the experience, and the direction to continue to produce quality titles for the mmo community. Sony has indeed stumbled a few times, but given their amount of exposure in the market ... the good far outweighs the bad. You Sony haters are simply being drama llamas.
Everything they do with the EQs 1 & 2 along with some of the f2p games is not much more that quick money and for the most part testing for EQ next they are trying to find out early what works and what doesnt.. it this f2p model works be sure its gonna show up in EQ next
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