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General: The present and future of crafting in MMOs
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
MMORPG.com writer Michael Lafferty is talking crafting in his latest article. This time, Jen Gordy, a lead designer of systems for Turbine, and Fran Stewart, a writer for En Masse Entertainment come along for the ride and the trio offer up their thoughts about crafting as it was and as it will be in the future.
Little has changed in the realm of MMO crafting since the modern 3D age began in the late 1990s. The formula is essentially the same: harvest and then grind repetitively through recipes to level and get more recipes to grind out until you actually get to items of value to other players. But in some games crafted items can be eclipsed by quest rewards, or raids will yield weapons or armor that are far superior to anything crafted by players.
Read The Present and Future of Crafting in MMOs.
Comments
Why is this only comparing Lotro and Tera? Wouldn't games that do the crafting better or at least differently be better suited or at least added to this comparison/article?
Games like Vanguard and EQ2 and upcoming FFXIV make the crafting a much bigger part of the game and more than just your average click and wait. Not that I want longwinded crafting sessions like EQ2 has, but I also don't want the borefest that Lotro and WoW offer when it comes to crafting. But that's just me. Basically, I'm a dabbler and what keeps me FROM crafting in certain games is the reward and progression system.
If I am going to spend as much time on crafting levels as I do on adventuring levels, then it should be just as fun and visceral as fighting a mob or running to cool places to quest. Maybe a "quest" system should be put in place for crafting, ones that send you to distant places for exotic materials and exotic forges/mills, etc that you can only make certain things at those places. (Not in the middle of a group dungeon though, *cough*WoW*cough*).
That's my take on it, anyway.
In my MMO utopia there is no dropped gear.
You fight bosses, make quests, only to receive/loot materials which you can use yourself to craft the gear or sell through the auction house for a profit, eventually having enough wealth to purchase that equipment. I never understood how you are killing a mighty dragon to have a polished shiny piece of gear handed out on its body.
Crafting being a very complex experience that would play a major role in the game.
Anyway, most games have it very simple, nowhere close to a full-fledged crafting system (which involves gathering and tiers of production).
Systems I've enjoyed out of the games I played are Aion (yes, I do enjoy it before someone might want to troll, there is profit for those smart enough to seek what is profitable and minimize crafting costs as much as possible), EVE (this is a beast of a crafting system coupled with local markets and actual traveling between systems rather than teleporting anywhere in less than 5 minutes as most MMOs are) and UO (this is the one that introduced me to crafting systems heh, before that games for me were just about killing things).
I only have one question, one I have been asking for a long time, "why is SWG the ONLY MMO to ever have resources with stats?"
To me, that seems to be the key element in making any crafting system truly immersive. Allow me to scour the realms for the absolute best resources and I will make awesome stuff.
When you have resources that have dynamic stats, it allows those who want to invest the time to become the best crafters...period.
When you have a crafting system with identical resources, you get a thousand blacksmiths making 5000 IDENTICAL swords.
If I wanted to cut down a tree and make some furniture, I'd do it in my own backyard. Get rid of the crafting crap and focus on making a better game.
I agree with you Eagle. The Dynamic stats of creating in SWG was pretty remarkable. I can't understand why SOE doesn't just remake SWG the way it was. Yes, it would cost a lot of money, but it would make so much more.
Now normally im a lurker but mention crafting
. Lets be honest any of us that have ever crafted in SWG pre and post CU have been ruined nothing comes close in any of the other crafting systems in any of the games about . Ok battleaxe you dont want to craft fair enough dont but let us that do do 
but give us something that makes a difference not all turning out the same items with the same resources add infinitum BORING . Something to note theres been a lot of talk of crafting lately and without fail the most mentioned and wanted back crafting is SWG you think people might start to take notice wouldnt you .........
SWG was the pinnacle in a lot of ways. Crafting was the most immersive I've seen, ever. And the pre-NGE class system was phenomenal. Maybe if SOE took pre-NGE SWG (pre-CU is debatable), filed off the "Star Wars" parts and published it under another name, it'd get a lot of subs.
Aurora, 4x Gaming
While i loved SWg in its orginal state and that crafting system is definately one of the best there are a couple of other games that have done it well.
Wurm online has a super great crafting system but thats about it no quest no animations just grew to boring.
This new game i found while the graphics are um like playing on a gameboy,the crafting is great and resources sorta do have stats and the system is very complex. Your stats skill and the resource all play a part in the final product you craft. And materials are not so easy to come by and some you cant even see until you have spefic skills and stats.
You can check it out here... http://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/
If they had this game in full 3D with a good engine this game would dominate the mmo world for crafting.
oops i have to go to see if my moths have laid eggs so i can move them to a herbalist table to grow into worms,then into caccoons so i can produce silk.
Edit... to add this game in in alpha stage.
played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek
and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.
When mmos began we had crafting, we figured out what we wanted to make, found out what materials we needed and pressed a button and poof! it was in our bags. then we sold it
In the present we have crafting, we figure out what we want to make, find what materials we need and press a button and poof! it is in our bags. then we sell it
In the future we will have crafting, we will figure out what we want to make, found out what materials we need and press a button and poof! it will be in our bags. then we will sell it.
the end.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Wait, a discussion about MMO crafting without a single mention of EVE's system? Pretty much the only system that did it right? Oy...
Look, what they both alluded to is that having crafting be anything other than a grindfest means the market is flooded with items. EVE solved that problem through two systems. First, there is a limited number of production slots a player can employ at any given time. Second, crafting time in EVE is not trivial. Crafting of anything more than the most trivial thing (ammo) in EVE can take hours, days or even weeks. Other games? Everything takes seconds.
EVE bases its production limits around time and limited production thus ensuring the crafting stage has intristic value. Other MMOs limit their production based on tiers of mats (which is frustrating) and loads of useless items. So if we're discussing crafting, please, ask the people who did it right.
Not just another pretty color.
crafting should be like porn. except more fun. and participatory.
For eve take the "current" section of my post and replace the word bags with station or Dock.
I never understood how people get so crazy over crafting, it is what it is. The only time i think about crafting is when i discuss if the items crafted are meaningful in the grand scheme of things within the game universe.
The actual mechanics are unimportant.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I have played LoTRO since launch and I'm sorry, but the crafting utterly sucks, particularly if you are the poor sod who chose woodworking for a profession (as I did on one of my toons).
Fortunately, it provides me with a reasonable excuse to get up and grab a drink, but other than that, it is tediously boring and fairly useless to me.
Then again, unlike many people, I actually do play for the crafting - if it sucks and is poorly done, that is a major reason I will quickly lose interest in a game. About 90% of today's games have less than zero complexity or imagination to their crafting...and god knows I sure as hell don't play LoTRO for its robust, imaginative crafting and never have. Crafting is, by far, LoTRO's absolute weakest point, as it is with many other games. Sometimes, copying WoW is truly a horrible choice in terms of gameplay mechanics.
The next dev/publisher that comes up with anything remotely close to SWG's crafting system without copying it (because that would undoubtedly get them slapped with a nasty lawsuit) will be my freakin' heroes.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
Well I got to say I have a lifetime sub to lotro. What hte op wrote about crafting was true, until mines of Moria rolled out.
LI replaced crafted weapons, radiance gear crafted armor of any type and now the store is going to replace crafted power/heath pots and food.
That leaves all but 2 professions that are practically dead, and one of them dying. Jewler is about the only crafting profession around that still makes stuff folks will use. Farmer was only needed for cooks, and now that cooks are being messed over I would assume the farming profession will be dead too.
Crafting in lotro has taken many hits and to call it great is a joke.
I know its been part of a long term discussion in the lotro forums. I'm sorry but I had to point out the truth about lotro crafting.
Reading an article on crafting while crafting. Oh, the irony!
Something I'd like to see that might make crafting a little less tedious is adding some sort of mini-game as an option. Let players choose to either go through the slow-but-sure route of cranking out gear as they do now, or let them play the mini-game to gain a crafting level where they'll level much faster if they win or be down some time invested (and possibly materials) if they lose. As your crafting level increased, so would the difficulty of the mini-game.
If you're a cook, maybe you're in charge of a banquet where you coordinate supplies, chefs, and party guests. If you're a blacksmith, you might be put in charge of preparing weapons and armor during a fort siege. Something along those lines...
I am 100% with you Eric. We traveled similar paths. My smith in UO was one of my all time favorites. He got so popular on my shard that people were copying his name (UO did not have naming restrictions).
Unfortunately EQ introduced the uber item drops off bosses and it has been downhill since then.
I read the article title only to find LOTRO and TERA crafting being compared. LOTRO is just one example of present crafting. And a bad one at that.
SWG (also current game), EVE, Fallen Earth and Vanguard all have crafting that is actually meant as serious content, instead of just some after thought.
In LOTRO you have the same problem as in WoW, its almost impossible to craft for your own lvling toon. The mats you need are always in the areas where you wanted to have the crafted gear for in the first place.
this this this this please this
well, nobody has mentioned APB - In my opinion APB has the closest thing to an actual crafting system that I've ever seen. It's largely cosmetic, but you actually build personally designed unique items. Add some skill leveling, offensive/defensive stats and material gathering to their system and you get a crafting system with meaning.
It doesnt work like he writes in SWG. For some type of resources you have to wait for months for a good spawn if your server is unlucky. Everytime the resources cycle, its just a diceroll what stats the resources will have. And for most items, players dont buy noncapped things.
The travelling around for a good spot to harvest resources is only done for density of the spawn.
Not seen APB but you are right in that regard.
If we want to get super technical then Second Life has the greatest crafting system of all. Since you can make anything you can imagine basically.
SWG had the absolute best crafting ever in any mmorpg.
Nothing comes close.
SWG and EVE had/have the best crafting in an MMO. Vanguard and Fallen Earth come next. And like some others have posted, lets have crafted items with variable stats decided by crafting station, crafter level, material input toss in some degradation and wear, and not jsut repair costs, but material needed to repair as well. Could even have a drop in max "leevel" of an item each time it is repaired; no gear lasting forever.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
I want SWG's crafting system with APB's cosmetic customization kthxbai
Awesomeness
"Nerf Rock, Paper is fine. Regards, Scissors."
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"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga