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What are the problems with MMORPGs of today?
wormspeaker
Member Posts: 4
I'm interested to know what other people think are the problems with MMORPGs of today, or yesterday. I've made a list myself, but I want to know what other folks think. (Note: The headings are intended to be humorous, which may have failed.)
The Problems Inherent to the Average MMORPG:
* Leveling Grind
___* New players must grind levels in order to play with more established friends
___* Race to the "end game" promotes under-utilization of low and mid level content of all kinds
___* Level cap leads to player fatigue when no advancement is possible
___* Characters must be "maxed-out" in order to be considered for "High-end" content guilds
* The Grass is Always Greener for Druids
___* There is no right number of classes
______* Too few classes stifles player choice and restricts freedom
______* Too many classes produce a situation where class boundaries are ill defined
___* Separate classes invariably require balancing, particularly when PvP is involved
___* A class system provokes excessive angst about relative power between the classes
___* The standard balancing process for classes is rock-paper-scissors.
* Holy Trinity
___* Too much focus on Tank-centric play style leads to rigid and restrictive group roles
___* Too little focus on Tank-centric play style leads to everyone being a soloist
* Sorry 1 Too Busy 212 Twisting 21 to 121 Chat 2121 Now
___* Fast paced games are suited to short attention spans but this reduces the time for interpersonal interactions
___* Bite-sized content tends to promote trivialization of content
* Easy Mode
___* In order to gain the largest player-base possible games tend to trivialize challenge in exchange for simple time investment
___* Lack of challenge leads to player dissatisfaction and loss of sense of accomplishment
* Who Uses Dial-Up Anymore?
___* Focus on large player-base trends away from twitch gaming
___* Trend away from twitch gaming allows for smaller bandwidth and higher lag without loss of performance but also reduces the impact of player reaction and skill
* Making Mountains out of Mole Hills
___* Focus on graphical quality trends towards shorter view distance
___* Smaller zone sizes tend to trivialize geography and produce unrealistic terrain
___* Reducing travel time trivializes the size of the world reducing the impact of exploration
Comments
Devs create games to cater to the current audience, so if theres anything wrong with the MMO's of today it's because the gaming community is the problem.
Teh (sic) facebook generation has taken over and oddly enough, game quality is now all about polish over substance.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
The problem is...
Us, the players, almost everyone remember the joy of their first mmo and seek that feeling, which is nowhere to be found, so everyone tries to influence new games to go in that direction, perhaps maybe dev's listen too much to the playerbase, since everyone is gonna be of a different opinion, you can't please everyone, so solutions will always be a compromise.
We have way too high expectations, no1 has thought about what we are really asking...
We want content content content,
no grind,
we want it to be fun and rewarding,
we want it to look perfect,
controls to be easy,
we want quest to be more than just " ! " and follow the arrow to the destination,
we want freedom
we want sandbox tools, to build everything ourselfs,
and much much more, and it's simply not possible to deliver everything, and if someones tries it, they come out with half finished products which noone likes.
The days where you bought an game, played it with it's good, and it's bad sides are over....
And this will probably continue for many years to come, untill it becomes easier and faster to make a working game, that can deliver atleast what the majority wants.
Just my 2 cents, not worth much, but i thought I'd share em'.
Beazt
There is but one problem, there are no roleplaying games. So, nobody is roleplaying. And that is what made the classic fun. Not gifts and cheap treasure, but the ability to act and pretend and role play.
Hardcore players use to be role players.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Everyone wants something different, which is why I didn't ask what you wanted, I asked what was wrong. I think most people can agree on what is wrong, they just have different ideas on how to fix it.
I wonder how you missed the point of my post... we ARE the problem, okay? not the games, not the game devs, US.
We have too high expectations, and get hyped too easy, so we get disappointed, If SWTOR, or GW2 came out tomorrow, without having hyped everyone to believe they are the saviors of the genre, everyone would go into those games with no expectations, some might like it, and some might not, that's no different from everything else in life, but our expectations is, everytime a new game comes out, we think, based on videos from devs telling us about their game, that this one is different, this one will deliver everything we have ever wanted, blah blah blah.
hype, expectations, disappointment, failure... okay? okay.
Yeah, I got that part of it. I guess I was expecting something a little more concrete. (Like the list I made.)
I do tend to agree with you that player expectations are at fault. But only because developers and publishers let them be. I for one am interested in fundamentally changing the definition of MMORPGs. Some people will like the new definition and that will be a small fraction of the available market, and some will hate the new definition and will stay with WoW. So be it.
I'm not really looking to poll opinion, so much as I am looking to see if someone can point out something that I have not yet identified that I agree with. A developer that creates according to polls is about as effective as a president that leads according to polls. Which is to say, not very. However I am interested to hear if someone can identify some failure of the current definition of MMORPG that I have failed to identify myself.
Once that's done, I'll go about the business of formulating a design that will make me happy and a small percentage of the massive MMO player-base. I'm just hoping that this topic might shake out some facet of MMO design shortcoming that I haven't already thought about.
Because they try to appeal to casuals and don't have any in depth content. Aside from WoW, almost all of the successful MMOs in the last 15 years have been hardcore...Lineage, Lineage 2, DAoC, EQ, EVE, FFXI
Cheaters. There have been efforts to stop them, however, the result often angers players.
Farming.
Lack of an end game. This is not the case with all MMOs. WoW is centered around constant equipment upgrades, for example.
Nerfs. Easy way to "fix" problems, but, they usually cause more problems.
Better rewards for crafters. Crafted equipment should be some of the best in the game, otherwise, why craft.
Note: I disagree with your statement, "___* Fast paced games are suited to short attention spans but this reduces the time for interpersonal interactions". I have had a great deal of fun playing fast paced games. I have often been in combat and talked to group members [or larger formations] at the same time. I put the buttons on my mouse to good use. Voice is important to me, it adds a real life component, and more fun.
Intel Core i7 7700K, MB is Gigabyte Z270X-UD5
SSD x2, 4TB WD Black HHD, 32GB RAM, MSI GTX 980 Ti Lightning LE video card
The problem is that game companies started trying to please "everypne" instead of contimuing to make different types of games for different types of gamers. There are almost countless styles oc cars to fit different people's wants and needs. There isn't however a one size fits all car. I'm not sure if that has ever even been attempted. Henry Ford once said, "you can have any color you want as long as it is black". Stop trying to mix polka dots with tie-dye and get back to the basics.
A tiny mind is a tidy mind...
That goes back to why these companies do this. It is because since WoW, the whole MMORPG industry has not been about games, but money. The business model and game design all changes after 2005 when Blizzard made a Billion dollars.
Now, even stupid companies led by developers who are business men, not on-line gamers. Trying to make the next wow, to make billions. (they are all stupid). Thus, all of their games have the same flavor. They are deisnged to fail... so if it's hype doesn't work, then they can go free to play and mitigate their loses.
If these clone's game becomes a mild sucess, then they already made their money back, because even if 500,000 wow refugees try the game... they are rich.
Understand? That is the formulas right now.. and has been the better part of the last 5 years. Back in the day, Everquest was an amasing hit, it peaked at 500k players.. Now today aftewr WoW bringing in nearly 12 million new players into the MMORPG arena, all these developers have to do it get a bunch of kids excited about their game... doesn't even have to be good, or even have any back-end content. It just supoerficially needs to apeal and look good (AION, AoC, APB, etc) and you make your money back.
500k x box sales = $22.5 million
500k x $15 = $7.5million a month
So the collective buying power of those burnt out on WoW, mean you'll forver have cheap asain grinders & cheap WoW clones (Aion, AoC, or almost any that advertise here at mmorpg . com), because at the same time, those uninterested in Aoin, might be dieing to play jade Dynasty or Battle of the Immortals...
So with 12 million consumers out there, all these companies want is to over-hype their product and generate tons of excitement, to over sell their game. They really aren't interested in providing actual player experience, they just want to themepark their game out, so your ride through the park is on tight rails, so they can hide where they cut corners, etc.
Then the lead dev can come out 4 month after release and give a bunch of lip service they they plan on fixing this... or that. But it doesn't matter, they already have your $50 million. It takes nothing to leave a few programmers on to pseudo apease the complainers on their forums... but (again) it doesn't matter their goal was acheive.
Most MMO are throw away.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
I don't really think today's mmos are really mmos. They've been slimmed down to be more arpgs than mmos while still meeting the base definition of a mmo. They're in a purgatory of sorts to me. They don't have enough content to be a true AAA mmo, and at the same time they aren't good enough to be a quality arpg. That's why they fail.
I have to agree.
Game Companies (and the games they make) now are no longer "By Gamers For Gamers"
They are created and run by Businessmen, Accountants and Lawyers.
These guys run the business and hire artists/developers/coders to create a Product that makes them money.
The REAL problem though is not that these companies keep making games like this. Its that WE keep buying them.
If we gamers really want innovation, then we have to force game companies to innovate by not buying the crappy games they keep releasing.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
many of you are the ones that created the problem...you demand cuting edge graphics, the newest and best equipment to have 400+ fighting in the same area, the lastest and best code to run all the coolest and newest ideas...guess what....that all takes a lot of money. Gamers for gamers can not work because the gamers do not have the cash. They need business men to front the cash and businessmen demand a return. A big return at that.
So anytime someone bitches about the graphics being lame you should be smacking them...or demanding that a pvp battle have 400+. Cause if you want these things then you might as well give up on your dreams of a non-mass appeal MMO being made.
To me, the ultimate problem with every MMORPG is the internet, which is full of self-important jackasses.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
in the end it all comes down to the profit. the industry is afraid of spending millions into a real good concept which takes time to transpose, but a sucess isn't guaranteed. and we have to ask ' what does a good mmorpg need' instead searching for the problems, cause these are more than obvious.
also some here mentioned that the players are the problem. well, its a bit more complicated cause you have to differantiate. players who started to play mmorpgs since the first days of affordable internet flat-rates mainly do have more expectation than the new ones, who maybe only playing for the last 2 years. i started playing back in 1999 and i really wish that there will be a game coming up which provide me with long term motivation. but to be honest ... nothing in sight.
LOL. Right on.
As Horusra mentioned, developing these games costs a lot of money. Only corporations can fund these behemoths. Corporations demand a good return on investment (ROI).
How many players would tolerate an MMO developed by a small company with an expansive, sandbox world, deep crafting, player housing and excellent character creation tools, but with poor graphics and several bugs at release. I can hear the critics now: This game's graphics suck. I can't stand to look at it. The game has three bugs in it, FAIL. There isn't FFA pvp with full looting so I can grief the noobs, waaa.
Didn't Darkfall and Vanguard try to meet many of these requests? How well are they doing now?
Many old school MMOs are still alive. Why aren't people who clamor for those types of games playing them? Maybe there are enough of those games on the market to fill the nitch so completely that the few people who would play them are already diffused so much as to barely keep them on life support.
I propose that people are looking to the past with rose-tinted glasses. They forgive the earlier games for faults that would make them ragequit today. They look for features in new games that took several years for older games to implement. They expect perfection, not just any perfection, but perfection from their specific point of view. They complain about others wanting instant gratification in games while demanding instant gratification (perfect, full-featured game at release) in real life.
What's wrong with today's MMOs? Several games are being held to unrealistic standards by people with low tolerances for anything that might concievably displease them. Other games are stupendously overhyped, which makes it near impossible to meet the expectations of most players. The games need to be themselves and not improved versions of others.
The MMORPG market is very stale atm because its much about the same - and the diffrent things are not good enough to please the crowds.
All in all - its all based on raking in money for as little work and effort as possible. It can only end badly.
What is really needed now is the next thing in RPG systems. Full speech is to much - cause its gonna be expensive to create. But a good story driven game with great gameplay and good long term RPG system will do it. And ofc... we are talking about PVE content. What we can say for certain is that the games that have gone down the gutter are those claiming to be PVP oriented (WAR, AOC, Darkfall) while the more of PVE (AION early play - LOTRO) have been doing better.
The developers need to step back and look at what the gamers need. They havn't done so for the past 4 years. They have only seen the possible money of throwing out a mediocre half finished game that is hyped up without delivering anything worth playing long term.
I put it down to a lack of vision.
Not the developers though, the players.
When the min-maxers outnumbered the role-players many worlds lost their magic.
Still there is fun to be had and I, for one, have recovered from burnout. I'm back enjoying the MMOs as much as I ever have.
Focus on what you enjoy - not the niggles.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/
I didn't mention it in my original reply, but you're right. I remember in EQ when there were certain quests I couldn't do because I was a Ranger, or human, or had a certain faction standing. Certain skills I had were desirable at certain times in another person's development at certain points of development etc.. The path I chose and the choices I made actually defined what was available to me and how it would at some point effect others. Even if these mechanics were subtle and didn't have a large impact on my character or the world, it still made the game and my choices and actions feel more meaningful. I chose a role and was bound to it. Now wih all the rave about being able to solo everything in an MMORPG (the RPG part needs to be removed since thee are no roles any longer, just generic templates that generally impact nothing.) and players not ever having to truely rely on anyone else, It doesn't matter what class or race you chose. An ogre can walk up to an elf and get the same mission as I would being an elf. Personally, I think EQ-pre POP, should be the example that developers should try to follow but expand on, not consolidate.
A tiny mind is a tidy mind...
Just saying that a lot of effort and money goes into making an MMO, and the list you made with everything "You" wanted on it may not be the views of someone else who likes to grind with there mates or randomly killing endless zombies. I know I used to find it quite peaceful at 12pm with friends killing orcs to get a certain book.
But the way mmo's are developed usually goes in these steps
- Basic Idea
- Getting a loan or investment
- Hiring a team and refining the idea into something 'doable' which can be made in a year.
- Selling the game to a wide demographic
- Hope to make profit and pay the loan and investment back.
Behind every MMO is a corporation wanting to make money just like your local shop, They need the money to cover their losses. Aiming their product to a certain demographic can be suicide to a company, Im not saying they should make "Grind grind grind, 1221212121212 gameplay" But following a market trend is a smart business move and aiming to a wide audience will get them the most money.
We will see how the "No grind no button bashing" gameplay goes down when Guild Wars 2 comes out.
Couldn't agree with this more.
Early on, MMO's were made by people that loved games, now they are mearly business adventures.
Personally, I'd like to see things go back to the UO, AC1, EQ1 days. They were simply but immersive worlds that contained core concepts of the RPG part of MMORPG. Arrows were not unlimited, spells used components that were limited, items weighed something and encumberance was something you had to account for, etc.
We'll never see those days again because companies have figured out they make more money on the instant gratification crowd so prevelent in todays target MMO demographic.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Yep^
Give me $40 million and I will make your a billionaire... not very hard to do, but business mean have no zeal, no insight and no passion for what true MMO'ers want.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Holy Trinity - Works great in single player rpgs. Has been the festering wound in the heart of mmos for years.
Classes - Lack any type of variety. You are not playing your character you are playing what some developer said you character has to be.
Levels - Having one all mighty level leads to either slow mind numbing or speed race progression. Leveling systems do not have enough mini milestone to keep progression steady.
Gear farming - A sympton of speed leveling.
Instances - Good in theory terrible in execution.
Screwed up grouping mechaincs - Set group sizes and +/- max level range is killing grouping.
Good list, I agree with all.
One to add...
In an effort to increase revenue, more and more games are after increasingly wider demographics, which forces changes to game mechanics. With the change in game mechanics, people who LOVE mmorpgs for what they are (aka gamers), become increasingly displeased with new games. This event shifts demographics ever further toward casuals and alienates the remaining "gamers".