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may a player have an influence on the world or not?
mayebussa
Member Posts: 19
imagine a game where all players can have an influence on the world,
where players(as politicians) rule their nation and decide to enforce their defence or get an awesome army to attack their enemy's. they can decide to increase prices in shops or decrease them so they get more money for defence/offence, or keep the civilians happy. They can decide to expand and improve the city's, and so on.
do you think that the players' influence would ruin the world, improve the world, or will they just not look after it and continue questing, lvling etc...
Comments
Ruin.
There is too much stupidity within the gaming community for any good to ever come from it.
yes, but if you knew that if you wouldn't do anything the other faction(=enemy) will beat the crap out of you, i think i'll start thinking of improving my faction...
I think that if the game had the proper tools for players to do it, and if those tools were made the right way to not be abusable, then yes. Players impacting their game world would be a fantastic thing if it's all kept in context. And I think that's quite possible. Even "easy" if the Developers have experience in MMOs and their social/player driven problems.
It would be a boon to MMO worlds.
Once upon a time....
Nope.
A lot of gamers are lazy and like the path of least resistance. If they are playing a faction that is getting the shit beat out of them every hour or so most will just jump ship and reroll on the winning faction. People don't want to work to make something good, they just want the benefits/rewards with the least amount of effort.
It's not a question of "lazy". It's a question of desire and goals.
A game can be built on layers of socialization, and they shouldn't have to join a faction that's involved in getting the shit beat out of them.
Once upon a time....
that's true but i do think not all of the players think like that, f.e some people realy like having the power to lead a group, and if those people have the abillity to lead a "nation"... they'll be addicted like hell, if you know what i mean. if all people take the easiest way to complete something there wouldn't be any guilds, because you need to put a lot of time in your guild as a guild master. guild amsters don't start a guild because it's easier but they do start it because it's more fun to have a nice orgenised guild. i think you can compare these things.
I think this says it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hmqyejCYU
Ghost
I think people would use it but it wouldn't produce very good content. Something like making cities and ruling them is content few will be able to experience so it is reserved for the most hardcore.
And the cities and factions they create will not be as good as the ones the devs make, it isn't an issue of tools rather an issue that players are not professional writters and artists and the factions and cities they make would be shallow in comparison.
What I think would work better is allowing players to change or improve pre-existing cities in a way the devs planned for or even fix up acient ruins or whatever, so you know no matter what changes occur it is designed to look good and make for interesting content. And make it inclusive, rather than one leader or a guild having the power the whole playerbase could, encouraging cooperative play that everyone can do and content that everyone can experience.
All men think they're fascinating. In my case, it's justified
ok, here you defentitly see that the player has an influence on the game. but when you imagine world of warcraft: and the player can expand orgrimar or improve the horde's army. i think this is still something different. it has a larger impact on the game, the entire world changes. but in eve there is just( so to speak) 1 person more who can fight with the alliance.
In EVE the players create the alliances and the corporations, claim power and have power taken from then by their own hands. Player nations [Coalitions of alliances of player corporations] can have populations of over 40,000 players. There is someone ruling it, and some one fighting for it, and all the people in between.
Ghost
well that's the point. if players have the abillity to change the world will they improve it or not, and i even think that when they can change the world they will improve it because in every game there is something you don't like or think you can do it bether, and those things they will improve.
and it would be cool if the game starts with some towns, and the players can develop it to a huge city...
from what i read here, eve has just the ability to choose between war or not, but the influence i'm talking about is an influence on evrything, change economy, infrastructure, transportation, war,...
EVE pretty much has everything you want OP. Players control space, build huge stations that are eternal, set the tax rates for their corporations and alliance, have voluntary and mandatory operations (PVE and PVP), employ diplomacy, use spying and infiltration with great effect, set-up, control and dominate the market place. Lie, cheat, steal, disrupt marketplaces, more drama than a day time soap opera, who could ask for anything more?
And yes, it does make the game much more interesting.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yea.. EvE
You know, you go a pirating, fly into some distant territory and start harrasing the crap out of miners... and blow up a shipment of moon ores and stuff..
Suddenly the price of those things go up due to lack of supply in the local market, causing a cascade of economic changes for everything depending on those base goods, causing some players to need to go buy elsewhere, causing a different local market to run out of supply, causing prices to go up, causing that region's people to get annoyed and throw the buyers out, causing the alliance to break apart, causing ultimately a war involving thousands and thousands of people across hundreds of star systems..
Well, it might be a bit much to think a single person might have that effect, but it's theoretically possible eh
EvE's got an awesome socio-political dynamic, and a massive intricate economy and industrial complex.
good job kyleran... you just ruined the topic... so people normally do have got a good influence on the game if they can. answer found
kidding xD
but this is probbably the main goal of the game right? what if the main goal is lvling and improving your character. and you still need to rule a faction, will they still put that mutch time in it or not?
Exactly.
Think of all the douche canoes in every general chat you've ever witnessed, for the most part. Do you sincerely think that THOSE PEOPLE would do anything that wasn't somehow selfishly motivated or else completely assinine, if only given the opportunity?
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
well, i admit there is alot of stupidity out there. but ofcoarse you ca't run a faction if the hole faction is ruling it... so there will be some elite players, like guild masters or high ranked players in a kind of ranking (who most of times aren't that stupid), who will rule it.
It's really too bad about eve's point and click game play though.
I am anxiously awaiting a game with the same sheer scope of dynamics, but with twitch game play, either land based or space based.
Maybe one day!
it depends entirely on how you set up the rules of the game. regardless of how much power players have, the developers should have a plan for how they want the world to end up and make rules that drive players in that direction.
in SWG, players filled the world with cities full of shops, bars, houses and anything you could find in a regular city.
in Shadowbane swarms of players destroyed everything others worked to build just for the sake of destruction.
all depends on how the world is designed and what the devs want.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
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Currently Playing: ESO
I suppose if some players are into that sort of thing then fine, but for me, I'd rather be running through a dungeon battling a horde of enemies then defeating a huge dragon, than worry about taxes, whether I have the right shops in my city or if the citizens are happy. That's too much micro-management to be fun, for me at least. I'm sure other people would enjoy it, people enjoy games like Total War and Civilization, but they're not really fun to me either.
Again, I have to point to EvE Online for an example of how a player or a group of players could influence the landscape of a game. Yes, it is unfortunate that EvE is point and Click (for the most part). When I was younger and I got the invite to take part in EvE's Open Beta Test, I was turned off by the point and click movement. I was expecting a Freelancer twitch based style of combat. The game just seemed slow to me.
Now that I'm a little older and a little more jaded with the type of player a twitch based shooter attracts, I praise Eve for taking the slow road. Imediately, the game weeds out the undesirables (re: Speed hackers, Auto Target hacks, etc.). It sets the tone for the delayed gratification the skill system has in place. I say all this to build the backdrop for the rest of my post.
Eve Online is a great experiment in an Anarchist Sociaty. When the game launched, 0.0 space was unprotected and had no rules. Today, because players that wild fronteer has been conquered and a set of unwriten rules govern the space. When one group of players want to extend their dominence, they do it at the price of another groups land. Wars break out or Alliances and Non Agression Pacts are formed. Players work together to build Structures that give their group some respite, as well as charters that increases the minerals in the landscape around them.
Order is formed from Chaos because of the actions of these players... though it's still an Anarcist Sociaty. At any moment, a wayward traveler could happen into the system and engage in an act of war. Rivals can try to corner the market by setting prices below your own for market goods. Corporations from within the same Alliance could turn on each other (re: BoB). You may view this as ruining a game, but I see this option as an act of realism. I see that you have a choice in who and what you do can affect the world around you as the very thing you are looking for. And try as they may (Darkfall), no one has been able to duplicate the sense of realism that is present in Eve Online. But as I said before, this is probably due to the slow pace of the game and the general like-minded players that can get through the learning curve and think for themselves.
do you think that the same system of eve would fit in a game like wow? and would it improve the game or ruin it?
No, not the same system. One of the reasons why WoW is so popular is because it's fast. The downtime in almost nil, the death penalty is almost nil, and outside of raids... the players have no responsibilities. That game is geared towards instant gratification. Eve's system works because of how long it takes to get where you are going. Players are dependent on each other for everything from the ships they fly to the ammo they shoot.
You could just play Lineage 2 or EVE
Renaissance Kingdoms is a prime example of this. If you try that game you'll see it works. They give you all the countries in the world and place everyone there by IP address. So you play with those who speak your language. Then they let players get elected as mayors, council members, dukes, etc.
Mayors can set max prices for goods sold on the market ALL MADE BY PLAYERS WITH THEIR OWN SHOPS AND FARMS. Armies take certain skills to lead and command and move around the map. Each character needs to eat and thus there is a demand for things in game. An ACTUAL NEED FOR ITEMS.
It works great. If you want to try it, send me a private message here or in game (OneShotPaddy)