Lol at guilds who recruit based upon gear score or skill points. I guess the old expression 'All the gear, no idea' must have passed some people by.
The players personality, potential and how they will fit in the guild team is what I look for. I underlined the central point as I feel nowadays guild memebers can be looked at as simple cogs with which to grind out the next raid/instance/whatever faster. It should be (and used to be) a case of helping and developing players who get on together. True experience is wanted, but to be the only thing concerned about?...lol
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
There use to be a time when guilds were about unity and teamwork rather than "having the right gear". Not a lot of good guilds around anymore, do not understand the "requirements" in guilds. The concept behind a guild was to be able to get geared and take it to the other side, not the clickish kiddie wanna-be badars found today. Shame too, the hardcore PvP could be there but it seems that such groups of competition have changed to some kind of fashion show-off thing. Its all good, I enjoy earning my gear and avoid such groups. Guess the "all for one and one for all" focus has changed with time.
Lol at guilds who recruit based upon gear score or skill points. I guess the old expression 'All the gear, no idea' must have passed some people by.
The players personality, potential and how they will fit in the guild team is what I look for. I underlined the central point as I feel nowadays guild memebers can be looked at as simple cogs with which to grind out the next raid/instance/whatever faster. It should be (and used to be) a case of helping and developing players who get on together. True experience is wanted, but to be the only thing concerned about?...lol
No true good progression guild use gear score. It is just too inaccurate. Usually they will inspect you gear, look at your gem set up and give good potential player a trial run and see how they perform.
However, gear DOES matter. If a guild is recruiting for a HM ICC team, how can a toon in T9 even participate? And it is certainly not fair to spend 24 people's time just to gear up a new recruit.
And this "all the gear, no idea" thing is jsut silly. If you are not a good player, you are just not getting into a good progression guild, period. That is what trials are for.
No guild only focus on gear can down HM sindra or PP, or LK.
As the title implies, you might be thinking wow..what hardcore, its wow? here the short story:
i decided to lvl a character to max lvl and get full t9 (which is easy if you have the patience to pug)
so, once done, i applied for a newly started raid guild, thinking, no problem i got full t9, this is the response i got after a quick inspect:
You need to do more hardcore runs.
me: do you mean more pugs? i played vanilla and recenly came back, dont tell me pugs is hardcore, how am i supposed to get gear without a raid guild?
x: do some more hardcore runs, like toc or or something, and then give me a tell again.
thats the short story....so PUG´s is hardcore? and then you can get a raid guild? im inclined to join EQ2x just because of that lol?
what do you guys think of wow´s way to handle joining a guild? just curious:)
Edit: a PUG is a Pick Up Group
You should be asking yourself if that is the kind of guild you want to be a part of... Would be nice if people would stop guilding up with these kind of people. It's not about friends it's about what gear you have or how many runs you been on..
I thought the guild was supposed to help you out with that and that is what guilds are for. Help one another out and possibly make new friends to play the game with.
It depends
Some guilds are built with specific agendas. Say they are social guild, just join and talk. Some are levelling guilds, bring a low level in and level together or whatever. Some are pvp guilds, they have premades, or zerg orgrimmar. Some are specific raiding guilds, 10 man icc hardmode or something. To join a guild, be ready to meet the agendas of a guild. If you never pvp you will find pvp guilds not very welcoming. If you talk to a hardmode raiding guild and you have barely the gear to survive the unavoidable damage from one boss aoe, what would you think the guild can do with you?
Some applicants are sincere, they are working on their gear on their own. Lacking a few pieces is not a problem, as gear will come. Some applicants are parasites, they want to join, to be carried, to be geared and just leech till they find another ship to jump to. Some applicants are clueless, some are arrogant. A guild leader has limited time to check out each applicant. He must use limited time he has to find the right candidates for his guild.
Some guild leaders are good, as a planner, as a leader, as an organisser, or combinations. Some guild leaders are arrogant, discriminant, impolite, or outright jerks. Applicants need to be aware of that, and decide whether the rest of that guild is likely to be similar to the guild leader.
Guilds are just a bunch of people, whether they need or should help each other depends. I can be helpful to a few but I need not unconditionally help everyone in a guild. After all, I do not choose every member and I can reserve my resources for just the few I feel like helping.
Ok, well usually when I am in a guild we can work with people, and get them to a point where they can be useful. I mean, are guilds being limited in wow now to like 10 people a guild? I think that some people just value gear and image over real friendship... I wouldn't want to be a part of a stuck up crowd like that.
The guild should be able to offer you something aswell.
guild need to offer me something?
Its like the neighbors, or your friends, the selected few you want to spend some time with, regularly, not your lifetime.
Guildies are people I have more to interact with, some of them. Not all of every member in a guild. Actually if you talk about friends, RealID and friendlist are more appropriate tools. As I already mentioned above, guild exists for various reasons, not always friends.
As for offer me something, that sounds a bit greedy. If everyone wants a bit of a guild, who is the one to be leeched? No, no. Guilds are usually formed for a certain purpose, not always for raiding, not always for gear. Social guilds never raid.
Some hardmode raiding guilds are formed by people who already have too much gear, they want a team to do achievement, or test out some strategies.
On the other hand, gear is not all that important beyond a certain minimal level. If you look at those dedicated hardmode teams, not all of them are geared to the teeth, they just have enough gear to survive the basics, but they have the necessary raid awareness to beat the hardmodes. Gear won't help you if you stand in the fire, coldflames or black puddles. You hardly need top line dps to beat most of the hardmode encounters, as half of your play time is spent running or dodging or just killing orbs or viles as they spawn, orbs and viles that have 200k health, you can 2shot or 4shot depending on you gear.
Ok well i thought guilds were there to help each other out when they need it or to have somebody to kill time with talking to on the game, or make friends even with people that share a love of the game like you do.
As far as raiding. Social guilds do raid I am sure, I haven't played wow in awhile, but if I was palying it and had a social guild why wouldn't I want to try to go raiding or to get some of my guys that are ready to go in raid and take them?
Or why would I not want to help people get ready to raid in my guild? That just means more guildies prepared for raid. Now adays guilds want the easy way out. Instead of having to build a guild and help the guild they just want to get you in the guild to use you pretty much.
I guess I can see what you are talking about, but that is not the kind of guild I would want to be in , unless it was a last resort because I could not find any other guild that does raids.
You talk like every guild need to be everything for everyone, which is not necessarily the most efficient way. Given the diversity in aspiration, interest, personality, gaming style of so many members, meeting the needs, even some of the needs of everyone is self defeating.
That is why some guilds are special guilds. Some social guilds never officially organise raids, you can form your own, that is your own little raid. Some guilds are 25man raids, you can form your own pvp parties, 10man raids. Some are levelling guilds, you are expected to change guild when hitting level cap, if you need to raid.
Guild leaders are also players, they need not devote their lifetime to organising the guild, they only want some hours in guild matters, and the rest they game, and in the few hours they can spend on a guild, they can only manage a few things at a time. So they organse 10man, 25man, pvp or whatever, but hardly any guild can manage too many things at once.
That sounds ok for me, as I still have friend list and readID list to supplement.
I dunno, I don't fuck with real id, but I know what you are talking about. I am more use to swg and aion style game and the guilds don't seem to be that picky... I guess wow is alot different. I haven't played it in so long because of all the xpacs and how much they charge for each one.
Zesusu has excellent points.
Sungodra, if I were the guildleader of a hardcore-heavy-raiding guild, I would assume (judging from your postings) that you want to leech off and would probably never give you a second chance. Your points of "guildies helping each other" aren't exactly accurate. Guilds are not there to help you level or obtain gear, they are there for likeminded (and likegeared) people to gain even more gear. If between you and what-they-think-is-minimum-requirement is a large gap, most guilds will not help. Sure there are those that may help, but that gets boring quickly - you help 5 people to get into full purples, they leave for a more hardcore guild and you are left with a sour taste - all your effort went kapoof. Before you receive, you must give. If they are hardcore and your gear isnt, IF you like what they can offer (hardcore regular raiding), then pick up a less-hardcore guild, go raiding with them, equip yourself better then try again with the first guild. Also what could help, ask the guild leader to put you on the friends list so that if they do need an extra sword/spell, theyd contact you instead of picking up a stranger.
Remember, some guilds are so hardcore that even if you have the gear requirements, but do not fit into their schedule well (skip raids too often, do not show up or leave early), they might kick you! So if you don't fit into their requirements, do not despair. Try toreach those requirements, or rethink your own objectives - if you can't spend more then 5-7 hours in a certain day for raiding, you probably won't last long in a raiding guild that requires that. I know my schedule is so hectic, I would never fit into any raiding guild. So when I joined mine I specifically mentioned that I have very little time and will most likely not be able to raid at all.
Sungodra, if I were the guildleader of a hardcore-heavy-raiding guild, I would assume (judging from your postings) that you want to leech off and would probably never give you a second chance.
I think assuming he (she, whatever) just wants to leech is a bit harsh, but being the GM or recruiting officer of a hardcore raiding guild tends to make people jaded and cynical so I can't really say much :P.
I think, rather, people like Sungodra (and there's lots of them) just can't comprehend that people would take a game seriously and don't understand why they can't get into a certain guild, or if they're the GM, why their star performers tend to sign up, get geared, and move on, despite the fact that it happens over and over and over.
Naturally i´ve been reading the various points, one view though, is that i posted here merely to complain that i/all cannot join
the guild which they prefer because i intend to leech, per haps i should have stated from the get-go that i partook from the start
an active role in what must be one of the eldest wow guilds by now, The Noble Europeans, was there from beta to the release of The Burning Crusade. i am offcourse no longer part of that guild, but in those days, we took newcomers, geared them , and raided together. the point of a guild is exaclty (or was) to get likeminded people through all the hazzles one cannot do alone, and then enjoy the "ride" together" that means, even in WotlK accepting ppl with lesser gearscore, or you will never gain new blood, and without new blood, you basically die, albeit very slowly
EDIT: The Noble Europeans Did Not Stop Playing When i Did, They Are Still Going Strong!!
Naturally i´ve been reading the various points, one view though, is that i posted here merely to complain that i/all cannot join
the guild which they prefer because i intend to leech, per haps i should have stated from the get-go that i partook from the start
an active role in what must be one of the eldest wow guilds by now, The Noble Europeans, was there from beta to the release of The Burning Crusade. i am offcourse no longer part of that guild, but in those days, we took newcomers, geared them , and raided together. the point of a guild is exaclty (or was) to get likeminded people through all the hazzles one cannot do alone, and then enjoy the "ride" together" that means, even in WotlK accepting ppl with lesser gearscore, or you will never gain new blood, and without new blood, you basically die, albeit very slowly
EDIT: The Noble Europeans Did Not Stop Playing When i Did, They Are Still Going Strong!!
You're right in that guilds used to operate in that way; I remember the very same thing in EQ2 as guilds would regularly recruit a batch of new members and go back to get them geared up and caught up with the rest of the guild.
Unfortunately now that everyone in WoW can get geared up without the aid of a guild most guilds have no interest in helping at all. It's a sorry state of affairs to be sure.
Just wait for Cataclysm, and show off your shinny new greens that will be better than what they are wasting their time on.
The guild sounds like its not worth joining, to be honest. They probably need the gear, because they wipe so much without. Any guild that needs a gear check are simply leeches, wanting an easy path by siphoning off other guilds. Chances are given the attitude most likely they'll have a high turn over, as they move onto a guild at the next tier.
I wouldn't say it's WoW to blame here either, generally to join any guild in any game, it all depends on how useful you might be to them.
It's sad but true, if you don't have good gear or pvp experience then you might as well not exist to the "serious" guilds lol. That's kind of my problem with guild focused content too, most people take far too serious and it just ends up excluding a lot of people.
Well, raiding guilds are gear first, person second. Not sure about the hardcore part, I was a casual player, never did any of the IC raids, or any raids for that matter and managed to get decent enough gear from tokens to do IC 10... Hardcore pug's? maybe if you get a ninja here and there.. Then I'd let slip an 'omg, what a jerk' .. Then again, I've never been able to stand hearing Hardcore when talking about any Game without chuckling.. Dealing with life (to me) is more hardcore than any game will ever be.
Comments
Lol at guilds who recruit based upon gear score or skill points. I guess the old expression 'All the gear, no idea' must have passed some people by.
The players personality, potential and how they will fit in the guild team is what I look for. I underlined the central point as I feel nowadays guild memebers can be looked at as simple cogs with which to grind out the next raid/instance/whatever faster. It should be (and used to be) a case of helping and developing players who get on together. True experience is wanted, but to be the only thing concerned about?...lol
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
There use to be a time when guilds were about unity and teamwork rather than "having the right gear". Not a lot of good guilds around anymore, do not understand the "requirements" in guilds. The concept behind a guild was to be able to get geared and take it to the other side, not the clickish kiddie wanna-be badars found today. Shame too, the hardcore PvP could be there but it seems that such groups of competition have changed to some kind of fashion show-off thing. Its all good, I enjoy earning my gear and avoid such groups. Guess the "all for one and one for all" focus has changed with time.
No true good progression guild use gear score. It is just too inaccurate. Usually they will inspect you gear, look at your gem set up and give good potential player a trial run and see how they perform.
However, gear DOES matter. If a guild is recruiting for a HM ICC team, how can a toon in T9 even participate? And it is certainly not fair to spend 24 people's time just to gear up a new recruit.
And this "all the gear, no idea" thing is jsut silly. If you are not a good player, you are just not getting into a good progression guild, period. That is what trials are for.
No guild only focus on gear can down HM sindra or PP, or LK.
Zesusu has excellent points.
Sungodra, if I were the guildleader of a hardcore-heavy-raiding guild, I would assume (judging from your postings) that you want to leech off and would probably never give you a second chance. Your points of "guildies helping each other" aren't exactly accurate. Guilds are not there to help you level or obtain gear, they are there for likeminded (and likegeared) people to gain even more gear. If between you and what-they-think-is-minimum-requirement is a large gap, most guilds will not help. Sure there are those that may help, but that gets boring quickly - you help 5 people to get into full purples, they leave for a more hardcore guild and you are left with a sour taste - all your effort went kapoof. Before you receive, you must give. If they are hardcore and your gear isnt, IF you like what they can offer (hardcore regular raiding), then pick up a less-hardcore guild, go raiding with them, equip yourself better then try again with the first guild. Also what could help, ask the guild leader to put you on the friends list so that if they do need an extra sword/spell, theyd contact you instead of picking up a stranger.
Remember, some guilds are so hardcore that even if you have the gear requirements, but do not fit into their schedule well (skip raids too often, do not show up or leave early), they might kick you! So if you don't fit into their requirements, do not despair. Try toreach those requirements, or rethink your own objectives - if you can't spend more then 5-7 hours in a certain day for raiding, you probably won't last long in a raiding guild that requires that. I know my schedule is so hectic, I would never fit into any raiding guild. So when I joined mine I specifically mentioned that I have very little time and will most likely not be able to raid at all.
Good luck with your search to find a good guild!
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I think assuming he (she, whatever) just wants to leech is a bit harsh, but being the GM or recruiting officer of a hardcore raiding guild tends to make people jaded and cynical so I can't really say much :P.
I think, rather, people like Sungodra (and there's lots of them) just can't comprehend that people would take a game seriously and don't understand why they can't get into a certain guild, or if they're the GM, why their star performers tend to sign up, get geared, and move on, despite the fact that it happens over and over and over.
Naturally i´ve been reading the various points, one view though, is that i posted here merely to complain that i/all cannot join
the guild which they prefer because i intend to leech, per haps i should have stated from the get-go that i partook from the start
an active role in what must be one of the eldest wow guilds by now, The Noble Europeans, was there from beta to the release of The Burning Crusade. i am offcourse no longer part of that guild, but in those days, we took newcomers, geared them , and raided together. the point of a guild is exaclty (or was) to get likeminded people through all the hazzles one cannot do alone, and then enjoy the "ride" together" that means, even in WotlK accepting ppl with lesser gearscore, or you will never gain new blood, and without new blood, you basically die, albeit very slowly
EDIT: The Noble Europeans Did Not Stop Playing When i Did, They Are Still Going Strong!!
You're right in that guilds used to operate in that way; I remember the very same thing in EQ2 as guilds would regularly recruit a batch of new members and go back to get them geared up and caught up with the rest of the guild.
Unfortunately now that everyone in WoW can get geared up without the aid of a guild most guilds have no interest in helping at all. It's a sorry state of affairs to be sure.
Just wait for Cataclysm, and show off your shinny new greens that will be better than what they are wasting their time on.
The guild sounds like its not worth joining, to be honest. They probably need the gear, because they wipe so much without. Any guild that needs a gear check are simply leeches, wanting an easy path by siphoning off other guilds. Chances are given the attitude most likely they'll have a high turn over, as they move onto a guild at the next tier.
I wouldn't say it's WoW to blame here either, generally to join any guild in any game, it all depends on how useful you might be to them.
It's sad but true, if you don't have good gear or pvp experience then you might as well not exist to the "serious" guilds lol. That's kind of my problem with guild focused content too, most people take far too serious and it just ends up excluding a lot of people.
Well, raiding guilds are gear first, person second. Not sure about the hardcore part, I was a casual player, never did any of the IC raids, or any raids for that matter and managed to get decent enough gear from tokens to do IC 10... Hardcore pug's? maybe if you get a ninja here and there.. Then I'd let slip an 'omg, what a jerk' .. Then again, I've never been able to stand hearing Hardcore when talking about any Game without chuckling.. Dealing with life (to me) is more hardcore than any game will ever be.
edit: 200 posts in 8 years, I am teh hardcorz!