Lore v. Gameplay is not a question, it's a complete misunderstanding

The_Grump

I have to vent. I have to vent and I have to say this again because I don't think people are paying attention. There is nothing to debate in respect to whether or not gameplay or story is more important to a MMORPG, the question itself is incredibly inappropriate because the question presupposes a fundamental lack of understanding about what a MMORPG is at it's core, a RPG.

Gameplay is important to any game, after all it's how one in fact plays the game, and if it isn't enjoyable it simply isn't going to be played very often or at all. Gameplay and what constitutes gameplay is different depending on the genre. The first point is understood and overemphasised while the second point is understood and often completely overlooked due to the first. Gameplay for an action game like God of War, a racing game like any Need For Speed and a sports game like NHL 2K11 are very different. The need for a story is also different, going from some to not necessarily and to not at all in the examples above. What good gameplay is for any of those games will be based upon genre expectations, games related to it and recent technology. All of this makes sense and we don't argue about it.

The problem comes when we hit the notion of story and RPGs. Final Fantasy VII was at once a blessing and a curse, giving RPG fans something that had an incredible story and excellent gameplay. It had all the elements that really opened the RPG genre up into something more popular in the West and we must be grateful for that. It had interesting combat, plenty of choices, plenty of different enemies and some damn fun min-games. There was even Emerald and Ruby Weapon for the hardcore that wanted to see things go down in grand fashion. Somehow, and I'm not quite sure how, the focus went from story to gameplay at this point and I'm just not sure why. It didn't ultimately happen at this point and it isn't because of this game, but it is a hallmark and one we may as well use.

Story is what is at the core of games that are even cross-listed as RPGs because, in truth, the developers want to tell a story through you, they want you to experience their story in your own way. Again, they want you to experience their story in your own way. At times this entails your own personal story (Guild Wars 2, Shin Megami Tensei) and at times this is an epic arc that you are merely a part of (World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy X) but at all times the focus is the story. We enjoy these games not because of the mind-blowing gameplay but rather the incredible story and fun gameplay. This is what has been forgotten.

I've read a great many posts with people complaining over repeitive gameplay within MMORPGs, treating them like any other MMOG and completely forgetting they are RPGs or simply demanding too much of the genre. I'll be blunt and say that this is simply stupid and the indication of someone either making childish demands or not paying attention to the intended purpose and limits of the genre. We're not talking about limits in the way a FPS has limits. A FPS can accomodate a story and some even thrive on it (Deus Ex), but a RPG, a RPG must have a strong story otherwise it simply is not a RPG. Repetitive gameplay is gameplay: no matter what game you are playing you will be repeating the same sorts of actions in the same sorts of situations.

The question, the real question, is whether or not the majority of people playing MMORPGs really should be playing them. I say this because they've forgotten story and call gameplay too repetitive or unfun far, far too soon. Why? SImply put, they've stopped paying sufficient attention to the story and are trying to turn MMORPGs into something they are not. Another way to say it is that, despite the common thought, they really are playing the game wrong and are approaching it with the wrong ideas and standards, generally. It's that simple, it really is that simple, and the discussion needs to stop.

bunnyhopper

The vast majority of modern mmo players are causals, they want to spend an hour or so ingame and have everything handed to them on a plate. As long as a game is polished and shiney they don't give two hoots. In the past people actually gave a toss about content (and that includes story and the RPG element), nowadays, in general, they don't.

 

The rise of the casuals has more then just an effect on gameplay mechanics and the heady mix of pvp and pve as seen in oldschool mmos, it also has a major effect on the RPG aspect of mmos. Most people don't comment on that fact as they would like to think its only the pvp crowd and hardcore crafters who have been marginalised. In fact thats far from the truth, the change in community has lead to a change and 'dumbing down' in all aspects of the game.

 

This is the time of the ADHD credit card generation, you think the majority of devs are going to focus on the rpg element, when their customers click through npc speech as fast as possible so they can get to the cash shop? The dumbing down trend is what you are noticing now.

 

I will say though that regardless of the 'true RPG nature' of these games, repetitive, substandard and unoriginal gameplay should never be tolerated. Just because a game is RPG based doesn't mean it should play like a pile of shit.

 

Sintinel

This is weird because just the other night I was talking to some old MMO buddies about how so many people are complaining about MMOs on this and other forums, and I came to the same conclusion you did:  This is simply not the genre for a lot of these people.

Disdena

Originally posted by The_Grump

The question, the real question, is whether or not the majority of people playing MMORPGs really should be playing them. I say this because they've forgotten story and call gameplay too repetitive or unfun far, far too soon. Why? SImply put, they've stopped paying sufficient attention to the story and are trying to turn MMORPGs into something they are not. Another way to say it is that, despite common the common though, they really are playing the game wrong and are approaching it with the wrong ideas and standards, generally. It's that simple, it really is that simple, and the discussion needs to stop.

WHAT'S THIS?! NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY!! FINAL DESTINATION!!!

People play games because they enjoy them, and they enjoy them for different reasons. Sometimes for very different reasons. People who like MMORPGs for a different reason than you are not "playing the game wrong" (particularly if they far outnumber you). Claiming that players should not play the genre of games that you like because they don't play them for the reason you like... yeah, rant all you want but it's not going to happen.

fnorgby

Originally posted by Disdena

WHAT'S THIS?! NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY!! FINAL DESTINATION!!!

People play games because they enjoy them, and they enjoy them for different reasons. Sometimes for very different reasons. People who like MMORPGs for a different reason than you are not "playing the game wrong" (particularly if they far outnumber you). Claiming that players should not play the genre of games that you like because they don't play them for the reason you like... yeah, rant all you want but it's not going to happen.

 

Came here to say pretty much this.  you beat me to it so I won't belabor the point.

I'll just add:  I play games how I want to play them.  I don't need to explain or answer to anyone.    If I want to solo in an MMORPG, I'm going to.  If I think a game could be better for me if they added X or took out Y I'm going to say so. 

Life is an n-dimensioal game of tug of war, and I've got just as much right to pull on my end of the rope as you do.

The_Grump

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

The vast majority of modern mmo players are causals, they want to spend an hour or so ingame and have everything handed to them on a plate. As long as a game is polished and shiney they don't give two hoots. In the past people actually gave a toss about content (and that includes story and the RPG element), nowadays, in general, they don't.

 

The rise of the casuals has more then just an effect on gameplay mechanics and the heady mix of pvp and pve as seen in oldschool mmos, it also has a major effect on the RPG aspect of mmos. Most people don't comment on that fact as they would like to think its only the pvp crowd and hardcore crafters who have been marginalised. In fact thats far from the truth, the change in community has lead to a change and 'dumbing down' in all aspects of the game.

 

This is the time of the ADHD credit card generation, you think the majority of devs are going to focus on the rpg element, when their customers click through npc speech as fast as possible so they can get to the cash shop? The dumbing down trend is what you are noticing now.

 

I will say though that regardless of the 'true RPG nature' of these games, repetitive, substandard and unoriginal gameplay should never be tolerated. Just because a game is RPG based doesn't mean it should play like a pile of shit.

 

All of this is very true, however I will say that the term 'casual' is wanting because folks are put into the hardcore or casual category and it is much more nuanced than that and I'm sure you agree. Based on your reply, though, I think I have a good idea of what you are likely to mean by casual -a consistent session time of at most 90 minutes to 2 hoursand wanting to see real progress in that time, come hell or high water. This, then, is both playtime and attitude if I am reading correctly into your comments- and I agree with this.

I also agree that shit is shit, period, and that shouldn't be tolerated because that makes the genre look much worse than it is.

That said, I will not comment any more in this thread because I've really said all that I have to say. People who read what I wrote and understand it are likely to agree, and people who confuse and conflate playing the game the way the developers intended with the way I think the game should be played -which I did not at any point give, I simply stressed developer intent and people ignoring it and complaining about it even though they are the ones ignoring it- are simply not going to get it. The issue is really simple, it really is, and no amount of arguing is going to convince people that are just hell-bent on being a true part of the 'gimme-gimme-gimme' generation: whether they are Baby Boomer, Gen-X or later.