DDO was a Corpg and those games are easy to convert. Also DDO have always competed against GW (both games are about as good) and few people wanted to pay 15 bucks a month for a similar game they could get as B2P. When suddenly DDO became F2P the advantage shifted and DDO became the larger game but that is probably also because Turbine have put a lot of work into it while ANET have focused on GW2 instead. When DDO got the publicity people decided to try it again (since it was free to try) and saw that it was a lot better.
I am not so sure that the same thing will happen to LOTRO. First of all is an open MMO not as easy to adept to this method, selling questlines sounds like a mistake to me. Second of all will LOTRO soon go up against Guildwars 2 and that don't look that good for LOTRO. But until GW2 releases it might get some Wow players.
EQ2X will go down the drain, SOE are way to cheap to pull of a F2P game, they will overcharge people for everything in a way that will make most people to quit fast.
Explain how Lotro is going up against GW2.They are not coming out at the same time and unlike p2p you don't have payment every month.There is no reason why you can't play GW2 AND Lotor you don't have to pick one.You can play GW2,DDO,Lotor ,EQ2 all at same time their is 14.99 forcing to play the game every month or esle you feel like you are wasting money.When you choose to spend money it is your choice.
I certainly don’t want all F2P to die, as gamers we should respect that other players may not want to play what we want to play. But I do hope that given time a F2P player sees that they are only getting what they are paying for, if they can afford 15$ a month they will notice the extra quality. Not in every P2P true but in nearly all of them.
That is a myth WoW,Aion,Linage in Korean and Asian countries have F2P payment plans.It is just a payment plan.If Blizzard chose to go B2P with WoW the quality of the game would not drop.A bad game is bad game,A good game is good game.The quality of game is determine when the game is being made and qualtiy of the gaming studio.Most importantly the initial budget of game is biggest factor most p2p games have bigger budget and bigger staff hence quality.
GW2 is the biggest test,It will prove that if you give a game with out a sub the same budget as P2P game it will be just as good.I am fan hybrid models straight cash shops have a flaw since it is the only money source coming into the game they tend to gouge the customer or create stuff in game that force spend in the cash shop.Me personally i am fan selling a box so game is not that dependant on a cash shop. You sell boxes and expansion for your main source of income,small useless cash shop that has no effect on game to supplement yourself is a good set up consider that all mmo games have a cash shop.
For the last time Most P2P are triple AAA games with huge budget most F2P games are indie type games with smaller budget they are not going to get the same coverage.A P2p game dying is big deal,F2p game is not big of deal.They are exceptions on both types but that is normally the case in fact GW2 is probably the first triple AAA game with out a sub.
I have no side in the issue i just play good games,I would prefer more F2P/B2P/Hybrids because i want to play more mmos but i am willing to play any game and reguardless of payment plan.
F2P is a crackpot business model, and we ALL knew it except for an acceptable few who are easily suckered into spending money for nothing .
i'm sorry but i don't understand this. spending money for nothing? if i spent $20 for a mount, how am i getting nothing? i'm getting the mount i just spent $20 for. o.O
I'm thinking Faded is thinking that money for "virtual goods" that can be removed / changed / not resold or physical is "worthless".
I, personally, think $20.00 for a flag in a database is crazy. However, many people feel different. *shrug* I'd sure as hell sell $20.00 database flags to anyone that wanted them!
Your bank account is all 1s and 0s in a database. Your treasured family video or pics are all 1s & 0s on your hard disk.
A shrink charges you $200 per hour just to talk. Value is value. It does NOT have to be physical.
The fact that millions (including me) bought the flying mount PROVES that it has value.
I guess you missed the part where I said "I, personally, think (blah blah) is crazy. However, many people feel different."
You don't need my permission to do anything dude. I don't care, but approve of, your ability to buy a flying mount.
So, you managed to create a 100% flawed argument. That takes work.
You seem to insinuate that I was saying digital f2p goods are worthless. I said I felt they were. I did. Me. Not you. I also included, for the sake of the peanut gallery, the statement about "however blah blah".
You then used the example of a shrink charging for his services (and leveraging his investment in education). And, laughingly, you also make another mistake in misunderstanding the entire field of psychology or psychiatry. They aren't just talking to you. Further, a service is not the same thing as a virtual good. I hope you can see that. We can't make the comparison that a musician performing a song is the same thing as setting a bit that gave your character a rented digital flying mount in a game. EVERY value on EVERYTHING is perceived.
Then you state that you've "proven" that because you, and you believe, "millions more" bought some flying mount in some game this validates your position?
*shrug* If you're trying to win the room's approval for f2p goods, you won't do it that way. If you need to justify to yourself why you bought that mount, then I'll do that for you. If you get enjoyment out of that mount equivalent or greater to the value in other goods for the money you spent... you won.
You've only agreed with me, albeit in an odd way.
A virtual good is only worth what you perceive it to be worth. However, this is true of anything physical, service, or whatever. However, we're free to argue about why we feel that goods and services aren't good values.
I think I know a good value when I see one and I don't think f2p virtual goods are good values.
I don't see how either is fair, really. If you don't have the time to put into a P2P game, you're always going to be behind those that do. How is that really any different than the person who can afford to put the money into a cash shop game? Purely on a time = $ - they are equal. It's funny the distaste people express for those willing to spend inordinate amounts of money on a game, yet some seem to feel that spending hundreds of hours a month on a game is somehow....saner?
Almost every subscription game has a level cap.
What difference does it make if you reach the cap in a week or 6 months? Once you reach the cap, everyone is the same, capped.
What difference does it make when you spend the hundreds of hours?
Why is it important whether you spend them in a month, or over the course of the year?
The content is the content.
You don't get through the content any quicker if you do it in a year or in a month. It takes the same amount of hours either way.
It's like reading a book.
The amount of pages don't change whether you read it in one sitting, or a page a week.
Why do you care if I finish the book before you?
You'll still get teh same story won't you?
You'll still have end game content waiting for you at the level cap when you get there won't you?
And how could you make everyone even, unless you just didn't have levels or skill levels?
Some one is going to start the game after you aren't they?
So you'll be ahead of those people.
Should they say that's not fair?
Even in a cash shop game, someone that starts the game 3 months after you is not the same level as you.
So what difference does it make if it's a subscription game, and some people are aheead of you in the story, and some people are behind you?
I don't see how either is fair, really. If you don't have the time to put into a P2P game, you're always going to be behind those that do. How is that really any different than the person who can afford to put the money into a cash shop game? Purely on a time = $ - they are equal. It's funny the distaste people express for those willing to spend inordinate amounts of money on a game, yet some seem to feel that spending hundreds of hours a month on a game is somehow....saner?
Almost every subscription game has a level cap.
What difference does it make if you reach the cap in a week or 6 months? Once you reach the cap, everyone is the same, capped.
What difference does it make when you spend the hundreds of hours?
Why is it important whether you spend them in a month, or over the course of the year?
The content is the content.
You don't get through the content any quicker if you do it in a year or in a month. It takes the same amount of hours either way.
It's like reading a book.
The amount of pages don't change whether you read it in one sitting, or a page a week.
Why do you care if I finish the book before you?
You'll still get teh same story won't you?
You'll still have end game content waiting for you at the level cap when you get there won't you?
And how could you make everyone even, unless you just didn't have levels or skill levels?
Some one is going to start the game after you aren't they?
So you'll be ahead of those people.
Should they say that's not fair?
Even in a cash shop game, someone that starts the game 3 months after you is not the same level as you.
So what difference does it make if it's a subscription game, and some people are aheead of you in the story, and some people are behind you?
As far as I can see the only real answer for your questions is that people take the game to be a competition, just like life. They want to "win" by being better, faster, having more toys, being more popular, and so on.
They aren't playing the game to have fun, but to validate stuff that is missing out of their own life.
People spend enormous amounts of time and effort outside of MMORPGs to do this.
Thinking from that mind set, it is fairly easy to see other's point of view. (Not that I'm stating that anyone here didn't already see that; just stating facts.)
I don't see how either is fair, really. If you don't have the time to put into a P2P game, you're always going to be behind those that do. How is that really any different than the person who can afford to put the money into a cash shop game? Purely on a time = $ - they are equal. It's funny the distaste people express for those willing to spend inordinate amounts of money on a game, yet some seem to feel that spending hundreds of hours a month on a game is somehow....saner?
Almost every subscription game has a level cap.
What difference does it make if you reach the cap in a week or 6 months? Once you reach the cap, everyone is the same, capped.
What difference does it make when you spend the hundreds of hours?
Why is it important whether you spend them in a month, or over the course of the year?
The content is the content.
You don't get through the content any quicker if you do it in a year or in a month. It takes the same amount of hours either way.
It's like reading a book.
The amount of pages don't change whether you read it in one sitting, or a page a week.
Why do you care if I finish the book before you?
You'll still get teh same story won't you?
You'll still have end game content waiting for you at the level cap when you get there won't you?
And how could you make everyone even, unless you just didn't have levels or skill levels?
Some one is going to start the game after you aren't they?
So you'll be ahead of those people.
Should they say that's not fair?
Even in a cash shop game, someone that starts the game 3 months after you is not the same level as you.
So what difference does it make if it's a subscription game, and some people are aheead of you in the story, and some people are behind you?
As far as I can see the only real answer for your questions is that people take the game to be a competition, just like life. They want to "win" by being better, faster, having more toys, being more popular, and so on.
They aren't playing the game to have fun, but to validate stuff that is missing out of their own life.
People spend enormous amounts of time and effort outside of MMORPGs to do this.
Thinking from that mind set, it is fairly easy to see other's point of view. (Not that I'm stating that anyone here didn't already see that; just stating facts.)
I suppose if you make it a competition, like who can watch the most DVD's in one year, then ok.
Someone watching DVD's all day long is going to beat you if you only watch one DVD a week.
But again, there's a level cap.
So, really, it's like who can watch the most DVD's in a year, but there's only 20 DVDS.
At the end of teh year, we will have both watched them all, even if I watch them all in one week, and you only watch 2 a month.
If one sportsman puts in more time and gets a gold medal we don’t argue that what he did was unfair, that’s why time is not an issue. It’s good to see that most posters realise that hybrid revenue models like DDO are not F2P, so many on here only see two categories of revenue model.
I think that F2P doing well does gets attention, but not as much as P2P certainly. MMORPG for example has a regular guest writer who only does articles about F2P; does F2P need more attention than that?
I certainly don’t want all F2P to die, as gamers we should respect that other players may not want to play what we want to play. But I do hope that given time a F2P player sees that they are only getting what they are paying for, if they can afford 15$ a month they will notice the extra quality. Not in every P2P true but in nearly all of them.
Thats because when a sportsman wins a gold a model, he had just much time as everyone else during the event. How much he prepared before the event is irrelevant. However, when you're playing an MMORPG, you're not preparing for a certain event. you're already particupating in the game.
Thats true for leveling, but not for your ability to do a raid or pvp, where practice make perfect. If you like the non grouping, non pvp elements of a MMO are where we as 'sports personalities' increase our fame/level.
I wish my 3 raids this week had been like watchng DvD's, much more relaxing. But lets put this in perspective we are gaming, not doing intensive sport or anything truely arduous. But we still think in hardcore terms, you have to smile.
Comments
Explain how Lotro is going up against GW2.They are not coming out at the same time and unlike p2p you don't have payment every month.There is no reason why you can't play GW2 AND Lotor you don't have to pick one.You can play GW2,DDO,Lotor ,EQ2 all at same time their is 14.99 forcing to play the game every month or esle you feel like you are wasting money.When you choose to spend money it is your choice.
That is a myth WoW,Aion,Linage in Korean and Asian countries have F2P payment plans.It is just a payment plan.If Blizzard chose to go B2P with WoW the quality of the game would not drop.A bad game is bad game,A good game is good game.The quality of game is determine when the game is being made and qualtiy of the gaming studio.Most importantly the initial budget of game is biggest factor most p2p games have bigger budget and bigger staff hence quality.
GW2 is the biggest test,It will prove that if you give a game with out a sub the same budget as P2P game it will be just as good.I am fan hybrid models straight cash shops have a flaw since it is the only money source coming into the game they tend to gouge the customer or create stuff in game that force spend in the cash shop.Me personally i am fan selling a box so game is not that dependant on a cash shop. You sell boxes and expansion for your main source of income,small useless cash shop that has no effect on game to supplement yourself is a good set up consider that all mmo games have a cash shop.
For the last time Most P2P are triple AAA games with huge budget most F2P games are indie type games with smaller budget they are not going to get the same coverage.A P2p game dying is big deal,F2p game is not big of deal.They are exceptions on both types but that is normally the case in fact GW2 is probably the first triple AAA game with out a sub.
I have no side in the issue i just play good games,I would prefer more F2P/B2P/Hybrids because i want to play more mmos but i am willing to play any game and reguardless of payment plan.
I guess you missed the part where I said "I, personally, think (blah blah) is crazy. However, many people feel different."
You don't need my permission to do anything dude. I don't care, but approve of, your ability to buy a flying mount.
So, you managed to create a 100% flawed argument. That takes work.
You seem to insinuate that I was saying digital f2p goods are worthless. I said I felt they were. I did. Me. Not you. I also included, for the sake of the peanut gallery, the statement about "however blah blah".
You then used the example of a shrink charging for his services (and leveraging his investment in education). And, laughingly, you also make another mistake in misunderstanding the entire field of psychology or psychiatry. They aren't just talking to you. Further, a service is not the same thing as a virtual good. I hope you can see that. We can't make the comparison that a musician performing a song is the same thing as setting a bit that gave your character a rented digital flying mount in a game. EVERY value on EVERYTHING is perceived.
Then you state that you've "proven" that because you, and you believe, "millions more" bought some flying mount in some game this validates your position?
*shrug* If you're trying to win the room's approval for f2p goods, you won't do it that way. If you need to justify to yourself why you bought that mount, then I'll do that for you. If you get enjoyment out of that mount equivalent or greater to the value in other goods for the money you spent... you won.
You've only agreed with me, albeit in an odd way.
A virtual good is only worth what you perceive it to be worth. However, this is true of anything physical, service, or whatever. However, we're free to argue about why we feel that goods and services aren't good values.
I think I know a good value when I see one and I don't think f2p virtual goods are good values.
Almost every subscription game has a level cap.
What difference does it make if you reach the cap in a week or 6 months? Once you reach the cap, everyone is the same, capped.
What difference does it make when you spend the hundreds of hours?
Why is it important whether you spend them in a month, or over the course of the year?
The content is the content.
You don't get through the content any quicker if you do it in a year or in a month. It takes the same amount of hours either way.
It's like reading a book.
The amount of pages don't change whether you read it in one sitting, or a page a week.
Why do you care if I finish the book before you?
You'll still get teh same story won't you?
You'll still have end game content waiting for you at the level cap when you get there won't you?
And how could you make everyone even, unless you just didn't have levels or skill levels?
Some one is going to start the game after you aren't they?
So you'll be ahead of those people.
Should they say that's not fair?
Even in a cash shop game, someone that starts the game 3 months after you is not the same level as you.
So what difference does it make if it's a subscription game, and some people are aheead of you in the story, and some people are behind you?
As far as I can see the only real answer for your questions is that people take the game to be a competition, just like life. They want to "win" by being better, faster, having more toys, being more popular, and so on.
They aren't playing the game to have fun, but to validate stuff that is missing out of their own life.
People spend enormous amounts of time and effort outside of MMORPGs to do this.
Thinking from that mind set, it is fairly easy to see other's point of view. (Not that I'm stating that anyone here didn't already see that; just stating facts.)
I suppose if you make it a competition, like who can watch the most DVD's in one year, then ok.
Someone watching DVD's all day long is going to beat you if you only watch one DVD a week.
But again, there's a level cap.
So, really, it's like who can watch the most DVD's in a year, but there's only 20 DVDS.
At the end of teh year, we will have both watched them all, even if I watch them all in one week, and you only watch 2 a month.
Nobody wins.
Thats because when a sportsman wins a gold a model, he had just much time as everyone else during the event. How much he prepared before the event is irrelevant. However, when you're playing an MMORPG, you're not preparing for a certain event. you're already particupating in the game.
Thats true for leveling, but not for your ability to do a raid or pvp, where practice make perfect. If you like the non grouping, non pvp elements of a MMO are where we as 'sports personalities' increase our fame/level.
I wish my 3 raids this week had been like watchng DvD's, much more relaxing. But lets put this in perspective we are gaming, not doing intensive sport or anything truely arduous. But we still think in hardcore terms, you have to smile.