At the end of the day Vigil are NOT the deciding factor when it comes down to a permanent 2 faction split that really doesn't work with the lore as the fans see it.
Games Workshop are calling the shots here, just the same way that they called the shots with WAR, it was the short-sightedness & over-protective nature of Games Workshop that led to Blizzard making Warcraft & it's subsequent spin-offs the way they were, at one time Blizzard & Games Workshop were planning to work together on videogames, the "creative differences" were placed squarely at GW feet.
Now if you want to go tell Games Workshop how they should operate their IP within the videgames market be my guest, I doubt you'll get any further than Blizzard, Mythic or Vigil ever got.
It will be by Games Workshop's hand that WH40K will succeed or fail, I had hoped they had learned the lessons of WAR's failings but it seems that they accept no part of the blame for those, it will be for time to tell if they have simply repeated the mistakes of the past or not.
It is my humble opinion that GW arrogance will be their undoing, again.
At the end of the day Vigil are NOT the deciding factor when it comes down to a permanent 2 faction split that really doesn't work with the lore as the fans see it.
Games Workshop are calling the shots here, just the same way that they called the shots with WAR, it was the short-sightedness & over-protective nature of Games Workshop that led to Blizzard making Warcraft & it's subsequent spin-offs the way they were, at one time Blizzard & Games Workshop were planning to work together on videogames, the "creative differences" were placed squarely at GW feet.
Now if you want to go tell Games Workshop how they should operate their IP within the videgames market be my guest, I doubt you'll get any further than Blizzard, Mythic or Vigil ever got.
It will be by Games Workshop's hand that WH40K will succeed or fail, I had hoped they had learned the lessons of WAR's failings but it seems that they accept no part of the blame for those, it will be for time to tell if they have simply repeated the mistakes of the past or not.
It is my humble opinion that GW arrogance will be their undoing, again.
It wasnt lore at all that made WAR fail... it was the lack of good content and/or shallowness of a game that was forced out the door way too early that ruined that game.
Originally posted by MrNecron 2: Everyone knows a 2 faction system can work. If they started with Chaos Marines vs Space Marines and left it at that for a while there would be no complaining. People would gladly wait for Vigil to introduce more races (and factions) at a later time.
^ What I'd like to see... launch with WELL DONE Imperium (Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, & Daemonhunters) vs Chaos (Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons, & Misc Wacky Chaos Stuffs.) Then for each expansion bring in a more expansive game play, other factions, races... doing it half ass or compromising everything will just cause the entire thing to fail like warhammer did.
It is my humble opinion that GW arrogance will be their undoing, again.
I don't know if I would call it arrogance...
In my (limited) experience with GW (reading their rules and lore) it just seems to me their game design is amateur-ish in some ways?
It's like they develop their rules (and lore) using the 'Monte Carlo method'.
It seems that they produce a ruleset without anyone being able to look at it and spot problems and exploits? It's often like they completely lack forsight? Then, when the rules have been out a while - they update them to fix the problems and close the exploits. It's an interative process.
Now I know that D&D was much the same (as were many others) but with GW it just seems like their rule sets (and lore) are less well thought through initially? Yeah, they get there in the end - after lots of feedback from probably thousands of gamers?
With WH40K the whole rule set changed IIRC (2nd -> 3rd edition)? By then the game had been played for 10 years and they finally realised that people wanted to play with armies in battles not characters in skirmishes.
But with an MMO that process is flawed. It's not that easy to 'reprint' an MMO engine (fundimentally changing the game) - particulary after a game goes live. In fact I only know of one company who has done this and it has taken years. They really cannot afford to release the game and use that to 'get a feel for what people really want'.
That's where I think the problem lies with GW. I don't think they are arrogant... I just think they don't get why it's a problem?
I am of the opinion that they should have just made a Warhammer 40k version of Planetside with more factions :
To me that makes more sense than a 2 faction RPG.
Also, if Tyranid aren't a main race and are just NPC cannon fodder, that would suck for me. Big time. I like playing Tyranid.
MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P
If you want MMO WH 40k with more creative freedom you go back to its roots, to Rogue Trader. Much more RPG hooks there as added value. You do not take the setting of miniature armies and bend it to fit into generic MMO mold. And if GW does not like that you just steal GW ideas and make your own IP, like Warcraft did or like Fallout did with GURPS.
I am of the opinion that they should have just made a Warhammer 40k version of Planetside with more factions :
To me that makes more sense than a 2 faction RPG.
Also, if Tyranid aren't a main race and are just NPC cannon fodder, that would suck for me. Big time. I like playing Tyranid.
I really don't see how either Tyranids or Necrons could be made playable races... Well I do, but it would buttrape the lore.
Necrons are soulless, don't communicate and implacably try and destroy all life.
Tyranids have no individual personalities, aren't known for being chatty and generally do not get on well with others, unless you consider nomming party members to be a social activity.
EDIT- Tyrrhon G.U.R.P.S (Generic Universal Role- Playing System) is a system with no background that can be used for any game setting, or at least that was the idea.. You may be thinking of the old 1981 rpg Aftermath
Yeah Tyranids work off a Hive Mind system they have all the same thoughts feelings and desires that's why they're referred to as SWARMS they're like insects devouring all life
Necrons are mindless automatons working off the will of the Necron Lord to which they live with in a Tomb ship
these two races CANNOT be anything but Fodder to be destroyed by the other races
The Fluff just Does NOT support Playable Tyranids or Necrons
Comments
At the end of the day Vigil are NOT the deciding factor when it comes down to a permanent 2 faction split that really doesn't work with the lore as the fans see it.
Games Workshop are calling the shots here, just the same way that they called the shots with WAR, it was the short-sightedness & over-protective nature of Games Workshop that led to Blizzard making Warcraft & it's subsequent spin-offs the way they were, at one time Blizzard & Games Workshop were planning to work together on videogames, the "creative differences" were placed squarely at GW feet.
Now if you want to go tell Games Workshop how they should operate their IP within the videgames market be my guest, I doubt you'll get any further than Blizzard, Mythic or Vigil ever got.
It will be by Games Workshop's hand that WH40K will succeed or fail, I had hoped they had learned the lessons of WAR's failings but it seems that they accept no part of the blame for those, it will be for time to tell if they have simply repeated the mistakes of the past or not.
It is my humble opinion that GW arrogance will be their undoing, again.
It wasnt lore at all that made WAR fail... it was the lack of good content and/or shallowness of a game that was forced out the door way too early that ruined that game.
^ What I'd like to see... launch with WELL DONE Imperium (Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Sisters of Battle, & Daemonhunters) vs Chaos (Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons, & Misc Wacky Chaos Stuffs.) Then for each expansion bring in a more expansive game play, other factions, races... doing it half ass or compromising everything will just cause the entire thing to fail like warhammer did.
Shadus
I don't know if I would call it arrogance...
In my (limited) experience with GW (reading their rules and lore) it just seems to me their game design is amateur-ish in some ways?
It's like they develop their rules (and lore) using the 'Monte Carlo method'.
It seems that they produce a ruleset without anyone being able to look at it and spot problems and exploits? It's often like they completely lack forsight? Then, when the rules have been out a while - they update them to fix the problems and close the exploits. It's an interative process.
Now I know that D&D was much the same (as were many others) but with GW it just seems like their rule sets (and lore) are less well thought through initially? Yeah, they get there in the end - after lots of feedback from probably thousands of gamers?
With WH40K the whole rule set changed IIRC (2nd -> 3rd edition)? By then the game had been played for 10 years and they finally realised that people wanted to play with armies in battles not characters in skirmishes.
But with an MMO that process is flawed. It's not that easy to 'reprint' an MMO engine (fundimentally changing the game) - particulary after a game goes live. In fact I only know of one company who has done this and it has taken years. They really cannot afford to release the game and use that to 'get a feel for what people really want'.
That's where I think the problem lies with GW. I don't think they are arrogant... I just think they don't get why it's a problem?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Preach on brother!
I am of the opinion that they should have just made a Warhammer 40k version of Planetside with more factions :
To me that makes more sense than a 2 faction RPG.
Also, if Tyranid aren't a main race and are just NPC cannon fodder, that would suck for me. Big time. I like playing Tyranid.
MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P
If you want MMO WH 40k with more creative freedom you go back to its roots, to Rogue Trader. Much more RPG hooks there as added value. You do not take the setting of miniature armies and bend it to fit into generic MMO mold. And if GW does not like that you just steal GW ideas and make your own IP, like Warcraft did or like Fallout did with GURPS.
I do not feel at all betrayed, I am concerned that 2 faction pvp has a poor history in MMO's.
Yeah Tyranids work off a Hive Mind system they have all the same thoughts feelings and desires that's why they're referred to as SWARMS they're like insects devouring all life
Necrons are mindless automatons working off the will of the Necron Lord to which they live with in a Tomb ship
these two races CANNOT be anything but Fodder to be destroyed by the other races
The Fluff just Does NOT support Playable Tyranids or Necrons