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Why the hate, and who is it coming from?

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  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Originally posted by MadnessRealm

    If someone tries a game that he has been bashing for months and months before he tried it, logged on for 30 minutes and say "It's sucks".....well, that's far from objective, and it's a little dumb don't you think?

    Aside from the extreme difficulty in finding an objective review, it is easy to agree that such things are beyond "dumb" when all is said and done.

    Would you not agree that the majority of what we are seeing is disappointment?  As has been stated numerous times by many that post here, they were looking forward to the game.  The vast majority are having the same issues.  Think how different all these discussions would be were that one simple thing addressed... it sounds like these people want to like the game.  Perhaps I am just reading too much into what they are saying.

    It may be from ignoring the people that just say something sucks because they say it does, but I have not really seen anybody state that in regard to FFXIV.  Yes, there have been those that have replied to threads saying "you have to play this" by saying no, it is not their thing - but that is not the same as saying it sucks because it sucks.

    Again, I simply do not see any hate "at" FFXIV, the FF franchise, etc.  Sure, there is some hate at the fanbois - but c'mon, everybody hates the fanboy mentality offered by players of any game - so nothing special there.  No, I just see lots and lots and lots of disappointment and a bunch of wtf is this.

    It is a game mechanic/UI/control thing.  Look at most of the games out there - now there you will find some serious hate.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • cougmerrikcougmerrik Member Posts: 15

    To answer the OP...

    I played FFXIV for a few hours today.  I played FFXI at release for a couple of months but quit around level 35 mostly because my friends quit for various reasons.  When I tried to resub a while later to play with someone, I discovered that SE deleted my account because it had been inactive and i'd need to buy the game again to play.  Uh, yeah, no. 

    I don't remember having anywhere close to the issues with XI as I did with XIV.  Patching is a total unmitigated trainwreck.  Having to download an external patcher to patch a game = patching doesn't work.  I hope they're catching hell on the patching even though people are finding ways in because if they launch like that it's going to be pretty embarassing for them. 

    The UI and controls are clunky and feel totally unresponsive.  I tried playing without a mouse earlier after I found the ijkl keybinds while trying to figure out what the hotkey for opening various windows were (those don't exist).  The UI has very poor usability for their target demographic (which is not just people who played FFXI for 8 years).  I found myself several times getting in funky UI states without any indication of what was going on.  Hitting escape a lot was the way to go there I guess. 

    There's also a total lack of in-game documentation.  I tried to see how far I could really get by looking around in-game but it turns out that if you're not intimately familiar with FFXI that's probably not all that far.  Having a short gameplay tutorial seems like a no-brainer these days.  I'm sure there's fun to be had playing this game but these basic systems are getting in my way more than anything else.

    I wish they had gone away from the feel of FFXI with regard to races.  Reusing the races just feels wrong to me, but I've never been a fan of the FFXI races.

    After reading these threads for a while I've come to the conclusion that they wanted to release the game on PS3 and PC and chose to force-fit the game design to match the limitations of a console.  I may try it yet again with a gamepad and see if it's any better.  I'm not ready to give up on it completely but I'm on the edge.

    All in all this seems like a step backward from the state of the art in a few ways.  The most positive things I can say about it are that it's very nice looking, seemed pretty stable, and I enjoyed creating my character.  Still hoping to find the fun with a gamepad.

    I'm sure that responders will say all of these things are beta problems and they'll be fixed for release.  I've been playing MMOs too long to fall for that BS.  Hopefully FFXIII Versus will be good or I may have to stop supporting the series.

  • BTrayaLBTrayaL Member UncommonPosts: 624

    Originally posted by br3akingdawn

    Originally posted by WraithHunter

    This was my first approach at FF, and I won't buy it.

    Why the hate? Because it's a console game sold as a PC one.

    Who is it coming from? From the people that are dissapointed of yet another shoddy MMORPG.

     go play your wow.

    Never played WoW beyond trial, and I don't like it. By your reply, I can assume you're in the single digits IQ range.

    image
  • RedtahRedtah Member Posts: 23

    Originally posted by Belarion

    Those are some good criticisms Chess. Im flabergasted(sp). I also was let down by similar things with ff14, expressly the races ARGH! and will we see a new one??? like ever?? They said no I believe.

    However, I will still try the game for a few months because I am undecided. But is there no hope for you trying the free 30 days as well?

     

    Chess can you make the "Reccomendations and Complaints" thread?


     

     

    75$ to play on the 22nd is not free by any means.

     


    Originally posted by Clubmaster22

    Originally posted by Belarion

    Those are some good criticisms Chess. Im flabergasted(sp). I also was let down by similar things with ff14, expressly the races ARGH! and will we see a new one??? like ever?? They said no I believe.

    However, I will still try the game for a few months because I am undecided. But is there no hope for you trying the free 30 days as well?

    I will try and buy it but certainly not now and not on PC. In my opinion the game is not ready for release and i can't shake the feeling that the PC-Release is just used to polish the product for PS3-Release while at the same time getting some cash-in. This is not a business-practice that should be supported in my opinion and even the japanese developers should be able to learn this lesson.   


     

    I agree and I have to say I'm getting pretty sick of it, OH THE GAME IS THE RELEASED? WOULD YOU LIKE TO PAY TO BETA TEST IT BASICALLY?

     

     


    Originally posted by DarkDavis



    Personally, I loved FFXI. Played it for almost two years from launch before I had to give it up for school. I always wished I could go back and play it again, but by the time I could the game had developed so far beyond what it was when I left that it felt a bit pointless to try and catch up.

    When I heard about XIV just over a year ago, I was stoked beyond words. I KNEW that it was going to be great and I KNEW that the gameplay and immersion were going to be above and beyond anything we've seen in the MMO market in a while. I had absolutely no inkling that there was any chance that Square might disappoint. None. FFXI was just that good to me that I had no question that XIV was going to be awesome...oh dear, has this week been an eye-opener.

    I've got a long-standing pre-order that I'm going to need to cancel, unfortunately. I've been playing the open beta for 4 days now and in my opinion Square just doesn't seem to have their shit together. Technical, server-wise, gameplay-wise. About the only thing that's meeting my expectations is the art design and direction - and even that's not perfect. I agree with the criticism of some of the technical issues that many have pointed out - really poor server performance, unoptimized game engine, bad UI, etc...

    ...but I won't talk about that as I feel it's been well-discussed on these boards and elsewhere.



    Even if Square had all the technical issue fixed, the game is still missing so much of what made FFXI a good game. It's not intuitive. It's clunky and and the new player experience/tutorial is very sloppy and vague. Even as FFXI vet I had trouble figuring out what I was supposed to do next at times. The flow of the gameplay and combat are both slow and unwieldy. Targeting is a pain in the ass - you can click or tab; either one is likely going to wind up with you selecting yourself or the wrong enemy half the time. Using abilities is laggy and a pain in the ass. Abilities often lag out or don't respond at all and have to be used again. Crafting is just a total question mark. The only way to figure out how to craft anything is to do research on the web - and that's just not immersive, especially when alt-tabbing crashes the client 100% of the time. Harvesting is mind-numbingly boring. I can barely get myself to harvest for an hour, I don't see how I'm going to want to do it for hours or days, let alone how you're going to coax me into paying $15 a month to do it. The whole Levequest system feels like it was tacked on at the last minute. It seems to be born out of laziness, which is strange for a Japanese game - instead of writing real quests with dialogue and depth like XI had, you get this crappy quest-from-a-crystal thing. 30 people all standing around a crystal to get "run over here and kill x amount of things" quests. Ugh. To make the whole levequest system worse - you would think it would encourage partying, but it does the opposite. People seem more prone to solo when all they have to do is go to the crystal, run to mob, kill mob, get teleported back to crystal. Rinse. Repeat. They've taken all the running around out of the game to make it easier for casual players, but in the process they've made questing feel trite and meaningless and ruined some of the immersion. Combat doesn't feel as well thought out as it did in XI. It's not clear how abilities should be used together. The flow of combat is clunky. So many abilities require positioning to be effective, but positioning is nigh impossible to maintain because enemies move and path erratically during combat. Oh, and forget about ever getting armor/weapons/repairs/crafting materials when you need or want them. Not having an auction house makes it pretty much impossible to find what you need in less than half an hour to an hour because you will be spending that time running around the entire city clicking other players and hitting "Browse". I could go on, and on. Suffice it to say the list of things that need work is much longer than the list of things that work.

    /rant



    What does the game have going for it? It's visually stunning. Character creation is deep and rewarding. The three beginning storylines for each city seem interesting, though some more than others, and the storylines are well integrated with the gameplay just as they were in XI. But really, that's about it.

    I would love to see what kind of game XIV is in 6 months to a year. But I know that at launch it will be bad, because 2 weeks is simply not enough time to fix all the issues that the game has. I won't say I'll never play FFXIV, but I can say that I won't be playing it in 2010. I'm tired of rewarding developers for pushing half-baked products to market. In the meantime, Square Enix will be joining the growing list of developers who had great debut titles in the MMO market, but who failed to deliver on their sophomore endeavors: Mythic, Turbine, and Verant/Sigil/SOE.


     

    100% Spot On.


    Originally posted by DarkDavis



    Personally, I loved FFXI. Played it for almost two years from launch before I had to give it up for school. I always wished I could go back and play it again, but by the time I could the game had developed so far beyond what it was when I left that it felt a bit pointless to try and catch up.

    When I heard about XIV just over a year ago, I was stoked beyond words. I KNEW that it was going to be great and I KNEW that the gameplay and immersion were going to be above and beyond anything we've seen in the MMO market in a while. I had absolutely no inkling that there was any chance that Square might disappoint. None. FFXI was just that good to me that I had no question that XIV was going to be awesome...oh dear, has this week been an eye-opener.

    I've got a long-standing pre-order that I'm going to need to cancel, unfortunately. I've been playing the open beta for 4 days now and in my opinion Square just doesn't seem to have their shit together. Technical, server-wise, gameplay-wise. About the only thing that's meeting my expectations is the art design and direction - and even that's not perfect. I agree with the criticism of some of the technical issues that many have pointed out - really poor server performance, unoptimized game engine, bad UI, etc...

    ...but I won't talk about that as I feel it's been well-discussed on these boards and elsewhere.



    Even if Square had all the technical issue fixed, the game is still missing so much of what made FFXI a good game. It's not intuitive. It's clunky and and the new player experience/tutorial is very sloppy and vague. Even as FFXI vet I had trouble figuring out what I was supposed to do next at times. The flow of the gameplay and combat are both slow and unwieldy. Targeting is a pain in the ass - you can click or tab; either one is likely going to wind up with you selecting yourself or the wrong enemy half the time. Using abilities is laggy and a pain in the ass. Abilities often lag out or don't respond at all and have to be used again. Crafting is just a total question mark. The only way to figure out how to craft anything is to do research on the web - and that's just not immersive, especially when alt-tabbing crashes the client 100% of the time. Harvesting is mind-numbingly boring. I can barely get myself to harvest for an hour, I don't see how I'm going to want to do it for hours or days, let alone how you're going to coax me into paying $15 a month to do it. The whole Levequest system feels like it was tacked on at the last minute. It seems to be born out of laziness, which is strange for a Japanese game - instead of writing real quests with dialogue and depth like XI had, you get this crappy quest-from-a-crystal thing. 30 people all standing around a crystal to get "run over here and kill x amount of things" quests. Ugh. To make the whole levequest system worse - you would think it would encourage partying, but it does the opposite. People seem more prone to solo when all they have to do is go to the crystal, run to mob, kill mob, get teleported back to crystal. Rinse. Repeat. They've taken all the running around out of the game to make it easier for casual players, but in the process they've made questing feel trite and meaningless and ruined some of the immersion. Combat doesn't feel as well thought out as it did in XI. It's not clear how abilities should be used together. The flow of combat is clunky. So many abilities require positioning to be effective, but positioning is nigh impossible to maintain because enemies move and path erratically during combat. Oh, and forget about ever getting armor/weapons/repairs/crafting materials when you need or want them. Not having an auction house makes it pretty much impossible to find what you need in less than half an hour to an hour because you will be spending that time running around the entire city clicking other players and hitting "Browse". I could go on, and on. Suffice it to say the list of things that need work is much longer than the list of things that work.

    /rant



    What does the game have going for it? It's visually stunning. Character creation is deep and rewarding. The three beginning storylines for each city seem interesting, though some more than others, and the storylines are well integrated with the gameplay just as they were in XI. But really, that's about it.

    I would love to see what kind of game XIV is in 6 months to a year. But I know that at launch it will be bad, because 2 weeks is simply not enough time to fix all the issues that the game has. I won't say I'll never play FFXIV, but I can say that I won't be playing it in 2010. I'm tired of rewarding developers for pushing half-baked products to market. In the meantime, Square Enix will be joining the growing list of developers who had great debut titles in the MMO market, but who failed to deliver on their sophomore endeavors: Mythic, Turbine, and Verant/Sigil/SO



    Originally posted by DarkDavis



    Personally, I loved FFXI. Played it for almost two years from launch before I had to give it up for school. I always wished I could go back and play it again, but by the time I could the game had developed so far beyond what it was when I left that it felt a bit pointless to try and catch up.

    When I heard about XIV just over a year ago, I was stoked beyond words. I KNEW that it was going to be great and I KNEW that the gameplay and immersion were going to be above and beyond anything we've seen in the MMO market in a while. I had absolutely no inkling that there was any chance that Square might disappoint. None. FFXI was just that good to me that I had no question that XIV was going to be awesome...oh dear, has this week been an eye-opener.

    I've got a long-standing pre-order that I'm going to need to cancel, unfortunately. I've been playing the open beta for 4 days now and in my opinion Square just doesn't seem to have their shit together. Technical, server-wise, gameplay-wise. About the only thing that's meeting my expectations is the art design and direction - and even that's not perfect. I agree with the criticism of some of the technical issues that many have pointed out - really poor server performance, unoptimized game engine, bad UI, etc...

    ...but I won't talk about that as I feel it's been well-discussed on these boards and elsewhere.



    Even if Square had all the technical issue fixed, the game is still missing so much of what made FFXI a good game. It's not intuitive. It's clunky and and the new player experience/tutorial is very sloppy and vague. Even as FFXI vet I had trouble figuring out what I was supposed to do next at times. The flow of the gameplay and combat are both slow and unwieldy. Targeting is a pain in the ass - you can click or tab; either one is likely going to wind up with you selecting yourself or the wrong enemy half the time. Using abilities is laggy and a pain in the ass. Abilities often lag out or don't respond at all and have to be used again. Crafting is just a total question mark. The only way to figure out how to craft anything is to do research on the web - and that's just not immersive, especially when alt-tabbing crashes the client 100% of the time. Harvesting is mind-numbingly boring. I can barely get myself to harvest for an hour, I don't see how I'm going to want to do it for hours or days, let alone how you're going to coax me into paying $15 a month to do it. The whole Levequest system feels like it was tacked on at the last minute. It seems to be born out of laziness, which is strange for a Japanese game - instead of writing real quests with dialogue and depth like XI had, you get this crappy quest-from-a-crystal thing. 30 people all standing around a crystal to get "run over here and kill x amount of things" quests. Ugh. To make the whole levequest system worse - you would think it would encourage partying, but it does the opposite. People seem more prone to solo when all they have to do is go to the crystal, run to mob, kill mob, get teleported back to crystal. Rinse. Repeat. They've taken all the running around out of the game to make it easier for casual players, but in the process they've made questing feel trite and meaningless and ruined some of the immersion. Combat doesn't feel as well thought out as it did in XI. It's not clear how abilities should be used together. The flow of combat is clunky. So many abilities require positioning to be effective, but positioning is nigh impossible to maintain because enemies move and path erratically during combat. Oh, and forget about ever getting armor/weapons/repairs/crafting materials when you need or want them. Not having an auction house makes it pretty much impossible to find what you need in less than half an hour to an hour because you will be spending that time running around the entire city clicking other players and hitting "Browse". I could go on, and on. Suffice it to say the list of things that need work is much longer than the list of things that work.

    /rant



    What does the game have going for it? It's visually stunning. Character creation is deep and rewarding. The three beginning storylines for each city seem interesting, though some more than others, and the storylines are well integrated with the gameplay just as they were in XI. But really, that's about it.

    I would love to see what kind of game XIV is in 6 months to a year. But I know that at launch it will be bad, because 2 weeks is simply not enough time to fix all the issues that the game has. I won't say I'll never play FFXIV, but I can say that I won't be playing it in 2010. I'm tired of rewarding developers for pushing half-baked products to market. In the meantime, Square Enix will be joining the growing list of developers who had great debut titles in the MMO market, but who failed to deliver on their sophomore endeavors: Mythic, Turbine, and Verant/Sigil/SO



    Originally posted by DarkDavis



    Personally, I loved FFXI. Played it for almost two years from launch before I had to give it up for school. I always wished I could go back and play it again, but by the time I could the game had developed so far beyond what it was when I left that it felt a bit pointless to try and catch up.

    When I heard about XIV just over a year ago, I was stoked beyond words. I KNEW that it was going to be great and I KNEW that the gameplay and immersion were going to be above and beyond anything we've seen in the MMO market in a while. I had absolutely no inkling that there was any chance that Square might disappoint. None. FFXI was just that good to me that I had no question that XIV was going to be awesome...oh dear, has this week been an eye-opener.

    I've got a long-standing pre-order that I'm going to need to cancel, unfortunately. I've been playing the open beta for 4 days now and in my opinion Square just doesn't seem to have their shit together. Technical, server-wise, gameplay-wise. About the only thing that's meeting my expectations is the art design and direction - and even that's not perfect. I agree with the criticism of some of the technical issues that many have pointed out - really poor server performance, unoptimized game engine, bad UI, etc...

    ...but I won't talk about that as I feel it's been well-discussed on these boards and elsewhere.



    Even if Square had all the technical issue fixed, the game is still missing so much of what made FFXI a good game. It's not intuitive. It's clunky and and the new player experience/tutorial is very sloppy and vague. Even as FFXI vet I had trouble figuring out what I was supposed to do next at times. The flow of the gameplay and combat are both slow and unwieldy. Targeting is a pain in the ass - you can click or tab; either one is likely going to wind up with you selecting yourself or the wrong enemy half the time. Using abilities is laggy and a pain in the ass. Abilities often lag out or don't respond at all and have to be used again. Crafting is just a total question mark. The only way to figure out how to craft anything is to do research on the web - and that's just not immersive, especially when alt-tabbing crashes the client 100% of the time. Harvesting is mind-numbingly boring. I can barely get myself to harvest for an hour, I don't see how I'm going to want to do it for hours or days, let alone how you're going to coax me into paying $15 a month to do it. The whole Levequest system feels like it was tacked on at the last minute. It seems to be born out of laziness, which is strange for a Japanese game - instead of writing real quests with dialogue and depth like XI had, you get this crappy quest-from-a-crystal thing. 30 people all standing around a crystal to get "run over here and kill x amount of things" quests. Ugh. To make the whole levequest system worse - you would think it would encourage partying, but it does the opposite. People seem more prone to solo when all they have to do is go to the crystal, run to mob, kill mob, get teleported back to crystal. Rinse. Repeat. They've taken all the running around out of the game to make it easier for casual players, but in the process they've made questing feel trite and meaningless and ruined some of the immersion. Combat doesn't feel as well thought out as it did in XI. It's not clear how abilities should be used together. The flow of combat is clunky. So many abilities require positioning to be effective, but positioning is nigh impossible to maintain because enemies move and path erratically during combat. Oh, and forget about ever getting armor/weapons/repairs/crafting materials when you need or want them. Not having an auction house makes it pretty much impossible to find what you need in less than half an hour to an hour because you will be spending that time running around the entire city clicking other players and hitting "Browse". I could go on, and on. Suffice it to say the list of things that need work is much longer than the list of things that work.

    /rant



    What does the game have going for it? It's visually stunning. Character creation is deep and rewarding. The three beginning storylines for each city seem interesting, though some more than others, and the storylines are well integrated with the gameplay just as they were in XI. But really, that's about it.

    I would love to see what kind of game XIV is in 6 months to a year. But I know that at launch it will be bad, because 2 weeks is simply not enough time to fix all the issues that the game has. I won't say I'll never play FFXIV, but I can say that I won't be playing it in 2010. I'm tired of rewarding developers for pushing half-baked products to market. In the meantime, Square Enix will be joining the growing list of developers who had great debut titles in the MMO market, but who failed to deliver on their sophomore endeavors: Mythic, Turbine, and Verant/Sigil/SO



    Originally posted by DarkDavis



    Personally, I loved FFXI. Played it for almost two years from launch before I had to give it up for school. I always wished I could go back and play it again, but by the time I could the game had developed so far beyond what it was when I left that it felt a bit pointless to try and catch up.

    When I heard about XIV just over a year ago, I was stoked beyond words. I KNEW that it was going to be great and I KNEW that the gameplay and immersion were going to be above and beyond anything we've seen in the MMO market in a while. I had absolutely no inkling that there was any chance that Square might disappoint. None. FFXI was just that good to me that I had no question that XIV was going to be awesome...oh dear, has this week been an eye-opener.

    I've got a long-standing pre-order that I'm going to need to cancel, unfortunately. I've been playing the open beta for 4 days now and in my opinion Square just doesn't seem to have their shit together. Technical, server-wise, gameplay-wise. About the only thing that's meeting my expectations is the art design and direction - and even that's not perfect. I agree with the criticism of some of the technical issues that many have pointed out - really poor server performance, unoptimized game engine, bad UI, etc...

    ...but I won't talk about that as I feel it's been well-discussed on these boards and elsewhere.



    Even if Square had all the technical issue fixed, the game is still missing so much of what made FFXI a good game. It's not intuitive. It's clunky and and the new player experience/tutorial is very sloppy and vague. Even as FFXI vet I had trouble figuring out what I was supposed to do next at times. The flow of the gameplay and combat are both slow and unwieldy. Targeting is a pain in the ass - you can click or tab; either one is likely going to wind up with you selecting yourself or the wrong enemy half the time. Using abilities is laggy and a pain in the ass. Abilities often lag out or don't respond at all and have to be used again. Crafting is just a total question mark. The only way to figure out how to craft anything is to do research on the web - and that's just not immersive, especially when alt-tabbing crashes the client 100% of the time. Harvesting is mind-numbingly boring. I can barely get myself to harvest for an hour, I don't see how I'm going to want to do it for hours or days, let alone how you're going to coax me into paying $15 a month to do it. The whole Levequest system feels like it was tacked on at the last minute. It seems to be born out of laziness, which is strange for a Japanese game - instead of writing real quests with dialogue and depth like XI had, you get this crappy quest-from-a-crystal thing. 30 people all standing around a crystal to get "run over here and kill x amount of things" quests. Ugh. To make the whole levequest system worse - you would think it would encourage partying, but it does the opposite. People seem more prone to solo when all they have to do is go to the crystal, run to mob, kill mob, get teleported back to crystal. Rinse. Repeat. They've taken all the running around out of the game to make it easier for casual players, but in the process they've made questing feel trite and meaningless and ruined some of the immersion. Combat doesn't feel as well thought out as it did in XI. It's not clear how abilities should be used together. The flow of combat is clunky. So many abilities require positioning to be effective, but positioning is nigh impossible to maintain because enemies move and path erratically during combat. Oh, and forget about ever getting armor/weapons/repairs/crafting materials when you need or want them. Not having an auction house makes it pretty much impossible to find what you need in less than half an hour to an hour because you will be spending that time running around the entire city clicking other players and hitting "Browse". I could go on, and on. Suffice it to say the list of things that need work is much longer than the list of things that work.

    /rant



    What does the game have going for it? It's visually stunning. Character creation is deep and rewarding. The three beginning storylines for each city seem interesting, though some more than others, and the storylines are well integrated with the gameplay just as they were in XI. But really, that's about it.

    I would love to see what kind of game XIV is in 6 months to a year. But I know that at launch it will be bad, because 2 weeks is simply not enough time to fix all the issues that the game has. I won't say I'll never play FFXIV, but I can say that I won't be playing it in 2010. I'm tired of rewarding developers for pushing half-baked products to market. In the meantime, Square Enix will be joining the growing list of developers who had great debut titles in the MMO market, but who failed to deliver on their sophomore endeavors: Mythic, Turbine, and Verant/Sigil/SO


  • GorillaGorilla Member UncommonPosts: 2,235

    Originally posted by MadnessRealm

    If someone tries a game that he has been bashing for months and months before he tried it, logged on for 30 minutes and say "It's sucks".....well, that's far from objective, and it's a little dumb don't you think?

    Objectivity and time are not correlated in any shape or form.  If something looks like turd smells like turd and even tastes like turd you would be 'a little dumb' to keep stuffing it in your mouth don't you think? I am not saying that FF is crap more a comment on the idea that stuff can magically fix itself if you keep playing. There are a whole bunch of players saying it just isn't ready and that they will try again when the PS version launches. There is of course an argument (if you like the idea of FF) to try it again when SE have had a chance to get the game into a better state.

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