Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Serious implications from former MO GMs
Mr.Lumps
Member Posts: 136
Turns out my guild leader was actually HC Calix and his wife Bibi was GM Tiamat. Due to the NDAs they signed, they couldn't inform anyone. Syndic is the guild leader of CIR with CIR being the head of the Promethean Alliance, the largest on the server. This is what he wrote...."
Quote:
Alfie posted more about this in the other topic, but I was keeping with the NDA I signed - which is about as valid as a used roll of toilet paper since I never got a copy signed by both parties. So yes, I'm HC Calix and Bibi was GM Tiamat. Every single bug Prometheus found - and every single bug you guys told me for my "Bug Compedium" - was posted by me, on the GM forums for the Devs to read. If I wanted to abuse the information I was privy to, we could have duped enough gold to build 10 keeps - indeed, there was an exploit to purchase 30 keep deeds for 1 silver, so we could have gotten 30 keep deeds. The day thieving was implemented, you could dupe stolen items by stacking them endlessly on things. So, steal 1000 bone tissue, split stack, put 999 on 1 gold coin, voila, 1000 gold coins. Rule of thumb, every patch brings 1-5 major exploits and 1 dupe method. Bibi has been set up as a scapegoat in Starvault for Henrik's failed business moves (they postponed loans, invested with money they didn't have yet, etc). Can't go into exact details, because of legal matters. She has been removed from the GM staff, and I've been found guilty by association - removed from the GM staff and permabanned on the forums. All by Community Manager Maerlyn, while the Lead GM Pompeii was on vacation. He was supposed to be back today (Tuesday), but we have been informed by friends in the GM staff that Henrik declared a blackout on communications against us. So in effect, Pompeii refused to talk to us. We had to find out we've "left the team" (as Maerlyn told everyone) from a fellow Counselor. In addition to that, we've had our game-vouchers(compensation that GM's get, free gametime) removed ~1-2 hours after being kicked off the team with no notice, or explanation. Bibi(Epaphus, Animus, Tiamat) and myself (Calix) were the EU Game Support. Two volunteers. The only paid staff is Pompeii (Lead GM) and Discord (GM), who is only paid (100$ a month) for rebooting the server during US time. Every hacker we've banned, has been unbanned inside 3 days - usually by sending a PM to Henrik, then Henrik comes screaming in Ventrillo why was Person X banned. Or, they wouldn't bother with even that, they'd just be in-game again the next day; usually the way to avoid a permaban is to go into game account and change the username. This was employed by Russian who was permabanned a whopping 7 times, on the 8th time he was "permabanned" we were told to stop banning him because he gave information about exploits and pays 3 subscriptions. No exploiters, no hackers, no cheaters, no dupers have been banned. No duped in-game items were removed, the only removed items were all the question-mark items because they didn't know how to fix it. Up to about a month ago, the only "means of hack detection" were the same as the regular player - fraps it. Only advantage we had is that we could fly invisible, and we were still detected by 3rd party radar programs. So to cut the long story short, we got screwed and scammed of the gametime we earned (game-vouchers are awarded after a month's work). I don't intend to subscribe for this month. We've discussed this endlessly with the officers, some of them like Predator don't seem to intend to pay their subs anymore, some like Nidhogg have 3-month subs running and are a bit screwed. Next month, I'll reconsider if there's anything to really return to - I suspect SV will go bankrupt soon, since I can confirm that during prime-time EU there is ~300 people playing on the server. Personally, I regret even getting involved in Mortal Online. The only reasons why I'm leaving it open that I might return after a month; is that I don't want to see a year's worth of hard work by the guild go to waste, and there is nothing out there for CIR to play. In my absence, I leave Sengyr in charge of CIR's MO division. It has been a privilege and a great satisfaction to be playing with you guys and building something truly great; you can be proud in the fact that out of all the constructed keeps on the server, ours is the only one constructed with legitimate gold. |
currently playing: Darkfall, EVE, SC2
Comments
Old news.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Your about a week to late bro. The same thing was posted here a while ago.
Duplicate post.
Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!
Bit of a new development though... Ratigan (the player who originally posted it) has had his account permabanned and his ban is open for discussion in the community, contrary to the rules.
Before this thread gets deleted, you could always clear up part of this by posting on the CIR chatbox whether you are in fact syndic. That would at least verify the source of the reference document and reduce it to a question of your credibility.
"maybe
" is not exactly a clearcut answer
I doubt syndic would reply with "maybe" if it wasn't him. We had several members from CIR confirming it was posted on their forums and one even linked you his profile on CiRs forums (and yes, he is a member of the guild, not just registered there), it is still not enogh for you?..
It's unknown how much of the document is true, but I think we can accept that two facts are true: CIR being the source of the document and that the GMs in questions are now tagged [inactive] on GM forum.
He might if he found the whole controversy amusing.
How exactly does a member of AQ leak internal info from CIR?
DING DING DING.. We have a winner. Also.. I would add a 3rd fact. Players are currently functioning as High Councelors with GM powers including the ability to ban folks.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Well, since this thread is apparently staying up.....
Here's one major inconsistency that undermines the credibility.
" He was supposed to be back today (Tuesday)"
"I've been found guilty by association - removed from the GM staff and permabanned on the forums."
This was posted to pastebin on August 21st. From the two statements above, the author was permabanned from the forums as of Aug 17th (the Tuesday prior to it being posted).
From syndic's profile page on the MO forums: Last Activity: 28th August 2010 07:15
If the author of the original post was syndic, then somehow he managed to log onto the forums 11 days after he said he was permabanned. It's possible he meant some other forum, but I don't know what other forum that SV would ban him from. Sooo, either the author was not syndic, the post is inaccurate on a fairly concrete point, he got temporarily un-banned, or somehow he logged in while perma-banned.
ROFL.. guess we (once again) have "PROOF".. or do we need a DNA sample from the man?
Like I said in a previous thread, we have two options here:
1. SV put untrustworthy people into positions of power as GM and High Councelor, with the ability to ban folks and use(abuse?) other GM powers. If I am not mistaken didn't their alliance obtain the very first keep? Don't they and their allies have (or are about to complete) something like 5 keeps? Makes you scratch your head doesn't it? GM and High Councelors had access to a LOT of sensitive info...
2. SV put trustworthy people into positions of power... thus the allegations made by these people should be given credence...
So.. honestly.. if you argue that they are lying and cannot be trusted.. it just gives support to option #1. If you argue that SV put honest people into GM/HC Roles.. then it gives support to option #2...
Either way.. it doesn't look good for SV or Mortal Online.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I never said that there was a conspiracy or alliance, just pointing out an inconsistency. Was he not perma-banned on the 17th? Did he get "un-banned"? Did he somehow log onto the forums while banned?
Because no other MMO has ever had a problem with people abusing the power given to them by the devs...
http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2007/02/eve_online_trouble_in_deep_spa.php
http://brokentoys.org/2009/03/28/darkfall-relentlessly-moving-through-ultima-onlines-history-this-week-gm-scandals/
I will concede that syndic is a bad choice for GM. If you are implying that they got the first keep because they cheated, you are also saying he's not credible. (with regard to who was or was not cheating)
There were TWO options listed. I have no way of knowing which is true.. but one of them is... and neither is good for StarVault.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
FYI here are some additional allegations made by a former Gamemaster/High Councelor:
Unfortunately from what I remember, the lead GM couldn't be arsed with reading the ban appeal mails. And actions are not checked, on several instances when I requested investigations against other Counselors (Xenos, for threatening players with bans in-game; Nesoi for teleporting people during 13th Prophecy's keep construction and coming into GM Vent saying he's here to speak for AI; Thaquib for looking for people with his GM account and then logging into his Destroyer character to kill them), nothing was investigated and nothing was checked. Every time I asked, the line I got was "do you realize how impossible the server logs are to check for that?".
The only reason Nesoi was removed was because he was inactive as well as biased; the simplest way to work around it would be to put in 3-4 hours of GMing daily and you're "too valuable to lose", with a carte blanche to do whatever you want.
The ticket system itself is a GM-protest thing we've been ordered to do by the Lead GM because there was fuck-all we could do for players. Since there's only 1 person answering Support Tickets (Daniel), it was the only available way to apply pressure on SV to actually create some GM tools besides an all-out strike. Which was also heavily discussed in our meetings.
The common theme here. It is VERY VERY VERY bad to allow players (including Guildleaders) to function and Gamemasters.. or "High Councellors" with GM powers.. in a FFA-Full Loot PvP sandbox game based around Guild vs Guild territory control.
Also, love the line about "do you realize how impossible the server logs are to check for that?".
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
With somedude101 / Predator's response, I think we have reached a couple rare points of agreement.
1 ) The most likely origin of the document in question is from CIR most likely syndic (though it's unclear why he doesn't give a definitive answer).
2) There is a strong chance that syndic is not reliable
With the additional allegations from syndic you have supplied, it seems more and more like syndic is trying to portray himself as the only honest man in MO (and his guild by extension) "you can be proud in the fact that out of all the constructed keeps on the server, ours is the only one constructed with legitimate gold."
From other examples http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2007/02/eve_online_trouble_in_deep_spa.php http://mu.ranter.net/ultima-online/gm-darwin-gets-naturally-selected it's clear that giving power to players / volunteers is not the entire problem. It can be VERY,VERY bad giving power to employees
Power corrupts. There is no perfect system, however the difference between an employee and a player is that an empoyee at least has to fear losing his job, while a player does not. Thus the two examples you linked involve real life money. Also, let's be fair here... how many YEARS did those games run compared to 2-3 MONTHS in Mortal Online...
Player GMs (or HCs) do not have to brazenly create and/or sell in game items in order to have a destabilizing effect on the game. It can be as subtle as say... telling one of their members to stock up on skillbooks because they are going up in price ten-fold tomorrow. It can be as simple as sitting invisible for hours watching where they go and what they do.
It can of course be much more brazen than that... and someone unreliable placed into a GM/HC position would have access to the exact level of cheat enforcement and the real ability (or lack thereof) that SV has to go back and check logs.
Do I believe eveything listed in the documents? No.. I believe that at least some of the allegations are exaggerated. I do believe, however that many of the allegations are either true, or have their basis in truth. I also believe, though I have zero proof other than observation, that the GM and HC involved were probably booted for blatant cheating of some sort. I would hazard a guess that what they did was REALLY REALLY bad and trumped everything that they/he claim the other GMs did to abuse their powers. I think this is likely the reason that both of the accusers have been circuitous in their claims. This also explains the reason that SV has not addressed the situation other than censoring every post on the matter by deletion.
Again though.. pure speculation. What is KNOWN is that we have former GMs making serious claims about SV and Mortal. So either we have untrustworthy folks with GM powers, we have trustworthy folks making allegations against SV, or we have some combination of the two... and there is no good combination for StarVault.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
@osmunda
I like how you're spinning it to discredit me and make it out as all my fault.
I am certainly not trying to portray anything; at the time our keep was the only player structure built legitimately. I do indeed have the records to prove that my claims are facts, and if I'm going to share them with anyone it's going to be MMORPG news section.
But by all means osmunda, carry on. It's most entertaining.
@slapshot
Indeed power corrupts and as I've explained to both Henrik and Fredrik on multiple ocassions, you can't base your entire customer support on volunteers compensated by free game-time. Primarily, you can't enforce a 24/7 schedule because they're VOLUNTEERS. Secondly, you can't rely on players who are not on your paylist (and thus, have no incentive to be dedicated and honest) to do your bans.The potential for abuse is too big.
Needless to say... if you were to provide the documentation backing up your claims it would boost your credibility greatly. You don't have to of course, as only you know that truth of the matter, but publishing the documents which support your allegations would make for some interesting reading...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"Bibi has been set up as a scapegoat in Starvault for Henrik's failed business moves (they postponed loans, invested with money they didn't have yet, etc). Can't go into exact details, because of legal matters."
Can you tell us how a company dealing with millions in their currency goes about blaming a volunteer employee for financial issues please?
We've seen people who have been perma-banned on the forums and people ingame know people who are perma banned. Both properly banned and 'innocently' banned. So can you explain how no one is banned dispite the community knowing banned people?
Currently, well according to you there atleast 10 million gold in circulation. Yet we've not seen this gold. Where exactly are these dupers hiding all their stuff? Now note, I don't claim duping hasn't occured but it has been handeled well.
If you had accurate numbers of people playing MO at primetime why would you give us an estimate? I'm fully aware the active population is currently low as we wait for the epic patches implementations but you claim for the number to be accurate but yet provide and estimate.
por·tray 2. To depict or describe in words.
It certainly seems that you are describing a situation where everyone is at fault except for you and yours.
According to your accounts: (sorry for the cut and paste that makes it look like I'm quoting, but I wanted to make sure it was clear that these are your opinions, not mine)
I'll ask you the same questions I posed to Predator. Was he[syndic] not perma-banned on the 17th? Did he[syndic] get "un-banned"? Did he[syndic] somehow log onto the forums while banned?
This is an issue where your account is contradicted by primary source material (your user profile on the forum) and the facts are very straightforward and not open to subjective interpretation.
Gm Darwin was at 1 year for UO. These are the results I came up with from a simple google search.
The employee certainly has more on the line and a greater incentive to stay honest. That being said, volunteers can be a valuable asset (to the best of my knowledge UO and EVE still use them). In light of recent events (regardless of which version of events you accept) SV has decided that the safeguards they had in place were not adequate and have changed the way the gm and counselor program is set up.
So the new setup removes the ability of High Councelors to ban other players in competing guilds? It removes the ability for them to pass on info? I haven't seen anything published which would lead me to believe there were any significant changes.. or even any initial safeguards at all. All I saw was Henrick posting saying that there aren't any more player GMs.. which sounds great... but is meaningless when HCs have GM powers...
This is the only statement I saw on the subject:
We do not have any more GMs that are playing the game, the ones we have now is not biased
If there is an official statement from SV which says that they "decided that the safeguards they had in place were not adequate and have changed the way the GM and Councellor program is set up" please link it.. as I honestly cannot find such an admission/statement. That statement from Henrick does nothing except enforce what was already claimed by the ex-GM: One of the 3 GMs was a guildleader.. who is no longer a GM, but many players and guildleaders were and continue to function as High Councelors with GM powers.
Volunteers with GM powers (including BAN) is a bad idea. Especially on the same server that they play... in a game revolving around player and guild conflict. I don't care WHAT game we are talking about.. that is just asking the wolves to guard the henhouse.
Edit to add: Please stop with the UO comparisons. UO was 13 years ago and blazed the trail for mass market MMORPGs. They had a lot of mistakes, but we were also playing on dialup modems and something like 90Mhz Pentium computers. I would hope that many (gaming) generations later we would have learned from those mistakes as opposed to pointing at a 13 year old game and saying "They did it too so it's not too bad for us".
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Corruption is a human nature problem, not a technology problem. The technology has changed a lot in 13 years, human nature, not so much.
The fact that they have changed the GM system is to some extent a tacit admission that it was not working as intended, regardless of whether it was syndic abusing the system, everyone except syndic abusing the system, or some other problem. The have consistently stated that there policy is to not discuss the specifics of who gets banned and for what reasons, and I don't expect that they will waiver from that in this case.
Please re-read my message above yours. I did not see ANY statement from SV about revamping anything.. or putting better checks in place. All I saw was the one line from Henrick I quoted above which simply confirmed that the GM who said she left.. actually left.
And while it's a human nature problem... there is an old saying that "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
Also applicable "Fool me once shame on you.. fool me twice shame on me"
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Considering this thread hasn't been deleted which is very very strange I'll ask again seeming as Syndic wants to avoid the obvious flaws with his nerd rage rant.
"Bibi has been set up as a scapegoat in Starvault for Henrik's failed business moves (they postponed loans, invested with money they didn't have yet, etc). Can't go into exact details, because of legal matters."
Can you tell us how a company dealing with millions in their currency goes about blaming a volunteer employee for financial issues please?
We've seen people who have been perma-banned on the forums and people ingame know people who are perma banned. Both properly banned and 'innocently' banned. So can you explain how no one is banned dispite the community knowing banned people?
Currently, well according to you there atleast 10 million gold in circulation. Yet we've not seen this gold. Where exactly are these dupers hiding all their stuff? Now note, I don't claim duping hasn't occured but it has been handeled well.
If you had accurate numbers of people playing MO at primetime why would you give us an estimate? I'm fully aware the active population is currently low as we wait for the epic patches implementations but you claim for the number to be accurate but yet provide and estimate.
Maybe he will answer you but honestly many of them seem obvious..
Q1. "Bibi has been set up as a scapegoat in Starvault for Henrik's failed business moves (they postponed loans, invested with money they didn't have yet, etc). Can't go into exact details, because of legal matters."
Can you tell us how a company dealing with millions in their currency goes about blaming a volunteer employee for financial issues please?
A1. If you read what you quoted you would see that he answered that question already
Q2. We've seen people who have been perma-banned on the forums and people ingame know people who are perma banned. Both properly banned and 'innocently' banned. So can you explain how no one is banned dispite the community knowing banned people?
A1. An obvious exageration, but I think the gist of his point is that many cheaters were intentionally left unbanned... or had bans reversed.
Q3. Currently, well according to you there atleast 10 million gold in circulation. Yet we've not seen this gold. Where exactly are these dupers hiding all their stuff? Now note, I don't claim duping hasn't occured but it has been handeled well.
A3. Some guilds obviously have multiples of the resources that other guilds have.. thus some guild are working to complete their 3rd Keep.... A handful of people.. 20-30 control huge chunks of land. "Their stuff" is hiding right in front of you...
Q4. If you had accurate numbers of people playing MO at primetime why would you give us an estimate? I'm fully aware the active population is currently low as we wait for the epic patches implementations but you claim for the number to be accurate but yet provide and estimate.
A4. Were you looking for him to say it was 265 people at 9:18 PM CST or something like that? You know the population changes every minute.. so saying 300 during primetime is about as accurate as you are going to get... And at this pont it's been acknowledged that he was in fact the GM/HC so I think he'd have a more thorough idea of what the population was than a random player...
I really hope the guy follows through with his statment about publishing all of the logs he has. I think it would be quite interesting to read through...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018