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My only two concerns: 8 leves/48h and software limitations (XI's feedback'd be much appreciated)
Ikkei
Member Posts: 169
After much testing (since early june), I only have two concerns with FF XIV. I'd like to know what you make of this.
1. 8 leves / 48 hours limitation
I don't know if those numbers will change for the release. But as it stands now, I have troubles picturing myself playing a MMO that will limit my "Battlecraft" questing to 8 quests per two days. And what a limitation on the content... the devs can create virtually a thousand leves for all ranks, if you can only do 4 a day in average, you won't see much of it.
So basically as the system is tweaked now, if you complete your 8 leves in about 2 hours, then you're good for grinding for two days, whatever the DoW/DoM job you wish to rank up. This is very limitating to me. And it's too bad because at level one there are already 12 leves available (4 per city), not counting DoL leves.
Will we spend the best of our time grinding in FF XIV?
2. No respect for Windows software standards (including games) by SE
Mostly the fact that Alt-Tab is forbidden; that the window cannot lose focus for too long; and the slowness of the Graphical User Interface (being tied to the 3D framerate... the UI behaves like an in-game object while it should be "above" the game, discrete from it to some degree, and hardware mouse can't change that deep-code fact).
I love a crafting system that requires extensive wikis to understand and use. However if I can't just alt-tab to my web browser, how in the world am I supposed to datamine for/while crafting? If the answer is "log out, take notes or print the websites, then log back in, and if you forgot one piece of information then just log out, go on the web, and then login again", I'm afraid I just won't do it. It's already painful enough as it is not to be able to use a simple notepad or check my mail while the FF application is on. I know, "use your laptop", but hey this is not a valid solution for everyone.
From a gaming standpoint, considering UI performance standards in RPG and/or MMO and/or PC games altogether, there are many limitations too, however those can be later adjusted. For instance the fact that you can't open simultaneously several windows from the menu to compare things and assess the data is most irritating. The server lag when trying to setup your action bar is counter-productive to the armory system, simply put really frustrating (how many times did I pass before a gathering spot because I didn't want to lose time in the action menu, or editing my macros with new abilities...) All of this feels so 80's. Tanaka admitted that he doesn't play other MMOs, and right now I wonder if he plays games on PC, if only to know how it's done in 2010.
So I'm very worried that Square will just ignore most players concerns on those issues. Are you?
One last word
I think my concerns are valid, regardless of the enjoyment I (we) have (or not) with the game itself. I would very much appreciate feedback from FF XI players, regarding issues in the early FF XI that could be compared to those, and how they were dealt with by SE in time. Please do not bash me for voicing concerns that are, currently, making me hesitate to pre-order. Since SE won't tell us exactly how this beta is limited compared to the release game, I don't want to "bet" with $40 or $65 that they'll remove limitations that, currently, are ruining my experience of this otherwise very interesting game.
Comments
You have local levequests as well. That is an extra 8 per 48 hours. The local levequests seem to be crafting quests. At least the ones I have found so far.
It won't take people long to realize that Guildleves are not the main source of content in this game. If you play it as such, you are wasting potential.
Indeed. They're intended for DoH jobs only (Alchemy, Blacksmith, etc). So you can't use them to rank up your battle jobs.
On a "cultural" note, I believe "local" refers to the cities, since you take those leves inside the city. "Regional" refers to "around the city", where you find field camps and mobs.
So what is the main source of content in this game?
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
If you are talking about the crafting aspect, I totally see what you mean and tend to agree.
However concerning battle jobs, Disciple of War and Disciple of Magic, what other content is there in the game to level up those jobs besides "Battlecraft" leves, which are limited to 8 per 48h? I mean, besides good ol'schooled grinding? That's the only way I could find to keep ranking up while waiting on the 48h counter. I visited all three towns with the same character to make sure the 8 limit is global: it is, it's 8 per character, regardless of the job in use and the NPC issuing the leve.
Please enlighten me if you know better, I really wish I could do something else to rank up Battle jobs.
About the window mode, you can get a script that uses the autohot key program that will let you borderless window-mode virtually any windows game or application on the planet. I use it all the time in FF14, Rappelz, and various other games. I'll zip up the program and the script and post a megaupload link, install the program first, then you can right click and edit the script, when you edit it u'll see 2 numbers which for me is "1280, 1024" thats what you set what resolution your running the game in windowed mode at.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VPD1KH62
Virus Scan it at your leasure, but it came up clean for me, on Avast.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Its been a while since I played FFXI but as to the leveling concern as far as I remember there was no restrictions. Though when you died you lost xp which in its own way drew out the leveling experiance. One thing I will say is expect to grind mobs. Its just part of it.
As for the fullscreen and not being able to alt tab thing I'm honestly not sure. I usually ran around lost in FFXI till someone kind enough to stop and talk to me would show up (which was actually quite often). I would guess you probably should plan on having that recipe BOOK next to your desk lol.
The Questline?
Treasures of the Main etc? should get you started nicely
also by my calculations, 8 leves per 48h? ok fair enough If i want to run through them on the 1Star setting for minimal reward.
Instead I plan to Join a Battalian /Company and team up with friends.
So 6 of us at 8 each on 4star+ leves will be more than adequate methinks
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
Oh thank you very much. I had come accross this workaround on FFXIV core I think.
However, it messes up with the FF XIV exe; and as we're in beta and subject to many patches one needs to back it up and restore it prior to patching I guess. Moreover I don't really like to do that with MMOs -- I have concerns that I may be flagged for cheating, as I alter the exe.
I haven't tested this particular method, but you should know that the game will crash, even in windowed mode, in it doesn't have the focus for some time (about 5 minutes i think, i don't know exactly). Which means that if you spend a bit too much time with another app on focus (say your web browser, or notepad), you'll just crash with the same DX error you get with alt-tab in full screen.
However, it messes up with the FF XIV exe; and as we're in beta and subject to many patches one needs to back it up and restore it prior to patching I guess. Moreover I don't really like to do that with MMOs -- I have concerns that I may be flagged for cheating, as I alter the exe.
I haven't tested this particular method, but you should know that the game will crash, even in windowed mode, in it doesn't have the focus for some time (about 5 minutes i think, i don't know exactly). Which means that if you spend a bit too much time with another app on focus (say your web browser, or notepad), you'll just crash with the same DX error you get with alt-tab in full screen.
Actually this doesn't touch the main exe of ff14 at all. its just a simple text script. It doesn't touch any .exe period, look at the script yerself. Just thought I'd help. Its just a simple script that runs on its own when you double click it, and ctrl+alt+f on ANY active window, will full screen window it. No patching .exe's or stuff like that.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
It really appears that this game is being and has been designed with consoles in mind which makes me wonder why they are bothering to release it for the PC let alone to release it first for the PC. They should just go ahead and release it for the PS3 and what ever else they want to support and then release it for the PC once they are willing to make a version designed around PC hardware and software.
Well, this is precisely where I have concerns. Will the Questline be extensive, or will it only be a 3-hours gil-rewarding quest (forget about ranking up so far with those story quests) once every 10 levels? In the beta it's limited to one quest per character, which is totally understandable; however how much more questing there will be in the release... that, we don't really know yet. Unless FF XI set some precedents that we can use to project a possible future of the XIV, which is why I'm starting this discussion (I don't know FF XI besides talking with friends). The 16 limitation in Quests as opposed to 8 in Regional leves is a reason for hope, I guess.
But still there is the question of Gil versus rank points awarded in the Questline, because I'm talking about ranking up battle jobs here, not "spending time with content" (that I'm sure we'll do, no problem).
On the Battalian aspect, I think you're right. It's how the game is intended to be played. However, that's still just 4 hours maximum occupied every 48h. If that could be ok for weedays for most casuals (me included, I guess, in average), it will surely feel dry in content for weekends and those long night sessions.
Once again, I'm not worried about "how to play FF XIV", because I guess that I... get it. It's how much I can play it that has me worried with those limitations and timers on leve questing.
Then I'm sorry, my bad for mistaking it with another workaround. I'll try that right away. I guess I'll have to love it from what you describe of its use. Thanks a lot!
I think the 8 leves/48 hour is to sorta incourage grouping
So you pick up your 8 leves, and have some friends help you.
When your done next person go get theirs and you head out to help them.
There will be always somebody doing leves.
OMG this is so great!
Should actually be built-in Windows.
Great, thanks really
You could, also just changes the settings using the FFXIVConfig located in the game folder to change to window mode. As for the curser there is a mod to enable hardware curser, and yes 8 leaves every 48 hours. If there is more content than Guildleaves I have not found it.
There are no quests other then the main that just stops. There are no dungions I can see, there are no side quests, there are just long runs to other towns to be told you cant have any more guildleaves, and there is crafting that uses about 15 windows to do and no where are the recipes you unlock listed in game, get out your notepad.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
The game is in beta test and only a very limited part of it is currently playable. I dont know why soo many people seems to think that "beta test" equal "free trial". It's certainly isnt the case with SE.
FFXI is one of the game with the most content, both is quantity and in diversity. Based on that, we can expect that FFXIV will be similar. Now, will there be a lot of grinding ? Its too early to say and it depend what you call "grinding" : imho, doing quests that ask you to kill 50 monsters is as much grinding as killing the 50 monsters without being on a quest...
FFXI has a very huge amount of quests, missions and story lines. Much like a single player RPG. Some story lines could take literaly weeks to be completed. But they were never really rewarding in term of xp or money. Most of the leveling is done killing monsters in parties. For me it never felt really like grinding because the "flow" of fights is FFXI is totaly differant from other mmorpg. People used to other mmorpg find the speed of a fight too slow but there is reason for that and its what make playing in party interesting : You have to position yourself correctly based on the monster and other party members, you have to chain skills with other players, interupt / avoid some attacks... and, when you are used to it, you can chat with the rest of the party while fighting. I saw someone mentioning that you also xp in group in Lineage II and that its pure grind. I agree that in L2 its pure grind but a fight in L2 has nothing to do with one in FFXI.
Naturaly this is for FFXI and we dont know if FFXIV will be the same. It looks like it will be less restrictive than FFXI. That it will be possible to solo and even xp without doing fights. But xping in party will probably still be important.
One thing is sure : SE isnt in the habbit of making easy games. Dont expect to reach end game fast and without hard work.
Actualy its a problem with Windows and not with the game. SE is not forbidding you to use ALT-TAB : It's DirectX that cant handle going out of full screen mode. Nothing that can be done about it.
Other games using Directx that let you use ALT-TAB arent in true full screen mode : They are in a borderless window that take the whole screen. It "look" the same but the performances are a lot lower.
FFXI had the same problem. That''s why many people use a program called "windower" that will lunch the game in a full screen borderless window. (Originaly FFXI couldnt be played in a window at all)
Yes, its silly that SE didnt already included this option (yet ?). But you can easly find scripts that will start the game in a window taking the whole screen.
Yes, very limitating, indeed....
Stop talking, its an anti-cheat mesure left over from FFXI. Its retarded. Window mode works just fine USE THE CONFIG in the game folder.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Well, we can only speculate but SE said the beta as very limited. And yes we can compare with FFXI as there is a lot of similarity between the 2 games : Same races, 3 starting cities with their own low levels areas. Each cities with their own story lines.... Thats exactly the same as FFXI.
Now, in FFXI, those cities/areas are for really low levels. At best they are for level 1 to 20 on 75. Experienced players can rush through those levels in 1-2 days. Compared to the weeks/months needed to reach 75.
In FFXI, you cant even ride a chocobo before level 20, or take an airship. Advanced classes are available only once you reach level 30 and so on... all this to say that those starting areas are just a very very small part of the game. With most of the content being available only at higher levels. In fact, some say that with FFXI, the real game start once you reach level 75. Before that, its only the introduction to the game... (and yes, thats a hell if you expect to do endgame quickly)
SE already talked about a 4th city, in FFXIV, common to all players, once you have finished with the early level and starting area. That's exacly like the city of Jueno in FFXI.
Who talked about window mode ???????????????????????? Sure window mode work fine.
I just explained why alt+tab dont work in full screen mode. I am not interested in arguing about facts : Go read DirectX spec.
Reading this kind of forum is bad for the brain.... : Try to set the game in window mode and the same resolution as your screen. /slap myself
Oh, ok, go a head a whine that you are losing a few pixels at the top of the screen because of the window title bar.... cant please everyone.
I was really enjoying the relatively civil, informed feedback going on in this thread until I read this gem, which is so retarded it's actually hilarious. I hope you're not a troll.
Oh for the record, my friend and I did some extensive FPS checks yesterday, and among the things we found (like texture quality/filtering doesn't really impact FPS at all if you have a lot of vid mem, etc.), is that full screen and windowed mode provide the same performance.
For the love of God stop talking. You are making a complete fool out of yourself.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho