Dear OP: you'll be alot happier in life if you quit worrying about what other people think of things you like(assuming their not self destructive). If you like TOR, thats all that matters. You dont have to convince anyone of anything.
The Nagus has spoken. That'll be 3 slips of Gold Pressed Latinum.
Seriously, though, good food for thought for some.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Dear OP: you'll be alot happier in life if you quit worrying about what other people think of things you like(assuming their not self destructive). If you like TOR, thats all that matters. You dont have to convince anyone of anything.
The Nagus has spoken. That'll be 3 slips of Gold Pressed Latinum.
Seriously, though, good food for thought for some.
Isn't there a rule of acquisition about getting the money up front?
Umm the reason why SWTOR doesnt feel like what you think makes SWG seem like a true Star Wars game is because its based 4000 years before the rise of Darth Vader. The story takes place after the first Sith War(Knights of the Old Republic). Everything BioWare is doing is from scratch George Lucas started the story at Episode IV so there is no true storyline for BioWare to follow at the point in Star Wars Lore for SWTOR to follow. Please cut them some slack dont hate a game that is still in Stage 1 Beta Testing, Wait till you either get in to Closed Beta or Open Beta(which ever happens first) Play it longer than 30 minutes and then come back and say you hate it. Untill you have tried something all your claims of hatred is just an assumption.
no shit sherlock.
but bioware is not doing anything "from scratch".
take a look at the armor, vehicles and spaceship models.
it seems the kaminoans have been producing clone armor 4000 BBY, kuat drive systems producing similar venator class destroyers 4000 BBY, Aratech producing suspiciously similar speederbikes to those in the of the clone wars era...
which i might add were all produced for the republic. suddenly the sith empire uses very similar models.
and i'm not even going to go into sith witches, mages or whatever it is they are calling the sith now.
SWG was a failed project. Even at its height the game had around 300k subscribers. You can blame a lot of different things about the project. SWG fans need to accept that SWG was simply not successful. Lucas wanted more.
Because SWG was not successful, Bioware which is well known for their great story line games was asked by Lucas to make a totally different MMO. Bioware was asked to do this because of the great games that they have made (Mass Effect, Buldur's gate, Kotor, etc.). Bioware games focus on Bioware's story telling. Bioware games have sold millions including Knights of the Old Republic. Even if every single SWG player boycotts SWToR, the number of Bioware fans is at least ten times their number. The success of SWToR depends on Bioware fans not SWG fans.
The sense of entitlement of SWG fans is silly. If you want SWG2 go talk to Sony. Bioware will make a Bioware style game.
300k was pretty good in 2003. Radically different times before WoW brought masses of casuals into the market. 7 years later, yes it would have been considered a fail to get 300k, but back then that was probably above average.
At least SWG had a sense of community. The rivalries, and the well known crafters you'd go to for the very best. Chatting in a buff line, chatting in the cantina healing yourself/buffed while forming a hunting party. When I quit and picked up WoW like the droves in SWG claimed to be doing pre-release, I couldn't help but feel it was like the comminity of WoW was like a pile of shit had dropped on it. WoW was a good game, but the community stank. I fear with more linear storyline and the choice to solo the entire game, SWTOR will have a shit poor community like WoW.
SWG was a failed project. Even at its height the game had around 300k subscribers. You can blame a lot of different things about the project. SWG fans need to accept that SWG was simply not successful. Lucas wanted more.
Because SWG was not successful, Bioware which is well known for their great story line games was asked by Lucas to make a totally different MMO. Bioware was asked to do this because of the great games that they have made (Mass Effect, Buldur's gate, Kotor, etc.). Bioware games focus on Bioware's story telling. Bioware games have sold millions including Knights of the Old Republic. Even if every single SWG player boycotts SWToR, the number of Bioware fans is at least ten times their number. The success of SWToR depends on Bioware fans not SWG fans.
The sense of entitlement of SWG fans is silly. If you want SWG2 go talk to Sony. Bioware will make a Bioware style game.
300k was pretty good in 2003. Radically different times before WoW brought masses of casuals into the market. 7 years later, yes it would have been considered a fail to get 300k, but back then that was probably above average.
300k and bleeding. Also, 1,000,000 boxes sold -> 300,000 is 700,000 lost at that point. It was a ROI reason even if you don't believe it or like it.
SWG was a failed project. Even at its height the game had around 300k subscribers. You can blame a lot of different things about the project. SWG fans need to accept that SWG was simply not successful. Lucas wanted more.
Because SWG was not successful, Bioware which is well known for their great story line games was asked by Lucas to make a totally different MMO. Bioware was asked to do this because of the great games that they have made (Mass Effect, Buldur's gate, Kotor, etc.). Bioware games focus on Bioware's story telling. Bioware games have sold millions including Knights of the Old Republic. Even if every single SWG player boycotts SWToR, the number of Bioware fans is at least ten times their number. The success of SWToR depends on Bioware fans not SWG fans.
The sense of entitlement of SWG fans is silly. If you want SWG2 go talk to Sony. Bioware will make a Bioware style game.
300k was pretty good in 2003. Radically different times before WoW brought masses of casuals into the market. 7 years later, yes it would have been considered a fail to get 300k, but back then that was probably above average.
300k and bleeding. Also, 1,000,000 boxes sold -> 300,000 is 700,000 lost at that point. It was a ROI reason even if you don't believe it or like it.
Well yeah, SWG didn't hold your hand and give you everything you wanted without working towards it. Everything valuable was harvested ,crafted, and put in personal shops. It was deffinently a intimidating game to anybody who couldnt invest more than an hour a night.
Let's face it, MMO players really want glorified action/arcade games with stat gear that drop from raids. That is 95% of your MMORPG crowd. I even play those themeparks, but I still hate the shitty communities. SWG had it's problems but the playerbase and immersion more than made up for it.
SWG was a failed project. Even at its height the game had around 300k subscribers. You can blame a lot of different things about the project. SWG fans need to accept that SWG was simply not successful. Lucas wanted more.
Because SWG was not successful, Bioware which is well known for their great story line games was asked by Lucas to make a totally different MMO. Bioware was asked to do this because of the great games that they have made (Mass Effect, Buldur's gate, Kotor, etc.). Bioware games focus on Bioware's story telling. Bioware games have sold millions including Knights of the Old Republic. Even if every single SWG player boycotts SWToR, the number of Bioware fans is at least ten times their number. The success of SWToR depends on Bioware fans not SWG fans.
The sense of entitlement of SWG fans is silly. If you want SWG2 go talk to Sony. Bioware will make a Bioware style game.
300k was pretty good in 2003. Radically different times before WoW brought masses of casuals into the market. 7 years later, yes it would have been considered a fail to get 300k, but back then that was probably above average.
300k and bleeding. Also, 1,000,000 boxes sold -> 300,000 is 700,000 lost at that point. It was a ROI reason even if you don't believe it or like it.
Well yeah, SWG didn't hold your hand and give you everything you wanted without working towards it. Everything valuable was harvested ,crafted, and put in personal shops. It was deffinently a intimidating game to anybody who couldnt invest more than an hour a night.
Let's face it, MMO players really want glorified action/arcade games with stat gear that drop from raids. That is 95% of your MMORPG crowd. I even play those themeparks, but I still hate the shitty communities.
SWG was a failed project. Even at its height the game had around 300k subscribers. You can blame a lot of different things about the project. SWG fans need to accept that SWG was simply not successful. Lucas wanted more.
Because SWG was not successful, Bioware which is well known for their great story line games was asked by Lucas to make a totally different MMO. Bioware was asked to do this because of the great games that they have made (Mass Effect, Buldur's gate, Kotor, etc.). Bioware games focus on Bioware's story telling. Bioware games have sold millions including Knights of the Old Republic. Even if every single SWG player boycotts SWToR, the number of Bioware fans is at least ten times their number. The success of SWToR depends on Bioware fans not SWG fans.
The sense of entitlement of SWG fans is silly. If you want SWG2 go talk to Sony. Bioware will make a Bioware style game.
300k was pretty good in 2003. Radically different times before WoW brought masses of casuals into the market. 7 years later, yes it would have been considered a fail to get 300k, but back then that was probably above average.
300k and bleeding. Also, 1,000,000 boxes sold -> 300,000 is 700,000 lost at that point. It was a ROI reason even if you don't believe it or like it.
Well yeah, SWG didn't hold your hand and give you everything you wanted without working towards it. Everything valuable was harvested ,crafted, and put in personal shops. It was deffinently a intimidating game to anybody who couldnt invest more than an hour a night.
Let's face it, MMO players really want glorified action/arcade games with stat gear that drop from raids. That is 95% of your MMORPG crowd. I even play those themeparks, but I still hate the shitty communities.
You need to be all upset over the industry.
Not really. Should I be? I did say that I still play themeparks right? Yes I did.
Answering to the topic of the thread - Nowhere did it ever say that Bioware was making this game to please SWG fans. SWTOR not being star wars is a stupid statement, because it most definetly is star wars, but its not SWG. We can easily say that SWG isnt star wars. Why? Because its not one of the 3 original films. Hell we can say episodes 1-3 are not star wars. Another topic that I recently overread on the forum is the whole WoW clone thing. WHO GIVES A DAMN AS LONG AS ITS NOT WOW? Lets face it, there was nothing wrong with WoW besides the community and the fact that all the real pve encounters have been replaced with walking/flying/hovering/levitating loot bags. I am disappointed in some of the features of SWTOR but sadly we cant truly know what they will be like unless they release info or the game is out (If a game has a jump feature then ill give it a try any day.) unless you are one of those highly repectable members of the mmorpg.com community that just happen to have future insight powers, lucky assholes. So, you can remain loyal to SWG or you can give SWTOR a roll and see if you actually like it.
World of Warcraft is the original creation of God. Real Life is in fact a WoW clone.
Where are these SWG fans saying that swtor is not starwarsy enough? I was a huge SWG fan before NGE. I can't wait for swtor. I get all teary eyed watching the cinematic trailers. The game will be great I'm sure. It will be like the Kotor stories, which are not as good as the original movies or some of the books, but are decent.
Do I wish they would make SWG2 at some point, hell yes. But my gaming interests are varied and I have a place in my heart for both theme park and sandbox games. For whatever reason it is more difficult to make a good sandbox game, so I'm not going to stay up waiting for the next good one. (EVE sucks)
Dear OP: you'll be alot happier in life if you quit worrying about what other people think of things you like(assuming their not self destructive). If you like TOR, thats all that matters. You dont have to convince anyone of anything.
The Nagus has spoken. That'll be 3 slips of Gold Pressed Latinum.
Seriously, though, good food for thought for some.
Isn't there a rule of acquisition about getting the money up front?
Yep, Freddy, you're right. That means the price is doubled to pay for administrative fees for that mishap.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I do not think swtor is gonna kill star wars lore. Just to oposite like all novels it will just add to it. As for swg fans not liking swtor probably not. Swg let u do pretty much whatever u wanted . There is alot of swtor we dont know. What we do know is it will be a story based game.
They have group play they have lots of planets. They have a bunch of races u can play and enough classes to start a game out. I know alot of the complaints are u cant play wookie or rhodian or mon cal. I dont mind what ive read about swtor. U gotta keep in mind they will probably add classes and maybe races in xpacs.
Wow has done this very well. Also story driven mmos just do more buisness then a sandbox one does. Wow isnt a sandbox and its got 11.5 mil subscribers. I dont know what the best sandbox game is but its base is no where near wows. So bioware is gonna go in the direction they are best known for story driven mmos.
When bioware announced there game how anyone could think it would be a sandbox game is beyond me. Bioware mythic is known for great pvp games and for story. Im hoping they get the leveling stuff better in swtor then they did in warhammer.
That said u gotta know the pvp should be top notch. We also dont knwo everything about the game. I do like that they are going more a wow direction then an eve online sandbox approach though. Having playeed wow on pvp servers its no fun gettting ganked by high level guys when u are trying to level and camped.
So give it a chance If u dont like it once u play it go play something else. Trouble is if u were gonna follow swg or wow whod u choose if im a game company id follow wows direction. 11.5 mil or 300 k gees which route works best.
People talk about SWG failing for this reason or that. It simply "failed" because SOE listened to all the whiners on the forums....period. Anyone in the game at release, that wasn't a forum whiner themselves, could've told you that. It was the game with the most potential most of us had ever seen, but SOE caved to them. Oh well. WoW came out and it didn't matter much for most people.
Now we have the chance to experience Star Wars in an environment, once again, and are clinging to the hope that it will deliver. MMO's are so much further along than when something like SWG came out and expectations are extremely high due to the experiences we've all had in the last several years. 11 million people played WoW and now everyone thinks they're MMORPG experts.
People on forums can't stand to hear it, but the games that succeed don't just have a great platform and the best creative minds at work.....those minds also know how to balance implementing the feedback they get. They accept the feedback that is viable and within the framework of what they're trying to achieve. The rest is rejected.
Win or lose in all our eyes, I hope Bioware sticks to their guns. Nothing ruins a game faster than caving to all the whiners.
Yep, Not really a Star Wars problem here. I think people konw about one SW MMO and that was SWG, so if it isn't sandbox or SWG enough they think that it isn't star warsy enough.
Sandbox and SWG is not the only way to make a star wars MMO. I think this game will prove itself to be more star wars than anything SWG ever tried to do. Even if it is based severl 1000 years before the movies. I prefer a game based 1000 of years before the movie anyhow. It adds to the Star Wars history and timeline, and they have room to work around the lore of the Star Wars universe.
People talk about SWG failing for this reason or that. It simply "failed" because SOE listened to all the whiners on the forums....period. Anyone in the game at release, that wasn't a forum whiner themselves, could've told you that. It was the game with the most potential most of us had ever seen, but SOE caved to them. Oh well. WoW came out and it didn't matter much for most people.
Now we have the chance to experience Star Wars in an environment, once again, and are clinging to the hope that it will deliver. MMO's are so much further along than when something like SWG came out and expectations are extremely high due to the experiences we've all had in the last several years. 11 million people played WoW and now everyone thinks they're MMORPG experts.
People on forums can't stand to hear it, but the games that succeed don't just have a great platform and the best creative minds at work.....those minds also know how to balance implementing the feedback they get. They accept the feedback that is viable and within the framework of what they're trying to achieve. The rest is rejected.
Win or lose in all our eyes, I hope Bioware sticks to their guns. Nothing ruins a game faster than caving to all the whiners.
People talk about SWG failing for this reason or that. It simply "failed" because SOE listened to all the whiners on the forums....period. Anyone in the game at release, that wasn't a forum whiner themselves, could've told you that. It was the game with the most potential most of us had ever seen, but SOE caved to them. Oh well. WoW came out and it didn't matter much for most people.
Now we have the chance to experience Star Wars in an environment, once again, and are clinging to the hope that it will deliver. MMO's are so much further along than when something like SWG came out and expectations are extremely high due to the experiences we've all had in the last several years. 11 million people played WoW and now everyone thinks they're MMORPG experts.
People on forums can't stand to hear it, but the games that succeed don't just have a great platform and the best creative minds at work.....those minds also know how to balance implementing the feedback they get. They accept the feedback that is viable and within the framework of what they're trying to achieve. The rest is rejected.
Win or lose in all our eyes, I hope Bioware sticks to their guns. Nothing ruins a game faster than caving to all the whiners.
The problem here is that you are assuming that SWG wasn't a failure from the beginning. Sure, you didn't like the change, but others did. The fact that you, personally, do not like something, does not make it a failure. This is something most gamers (but swg fans in particular) really need to learn.
SWG was a failed project. Even at its height the game had around 300k subscribers. You can blame a lot of different things about the project. SWG fans need to accept that SWG was simply not successful. Lucas wanted more.
Because SWG was not successful, Bioware which is well known for their great story line games was asked by Lucas to make a totally different MMO. Bioware was asked to do this because of the great games that they have made (Mass Effect, Buldur's gate, Kotor, etc.). Bioware games focus on Bioware's story telling. Bioware games have sold millions including Knights of the Old Republic. Even if every single SWG player boycotts SWToR, the number of Bioware fans is at least ten times their number. The success of SWToR depends on Bioware fans not SWG fans.
The sense of entitlement of SWG fans is silly. If you want SWG2 go talk to Sony. Bioware will make a Bioware style game.
300k was pretty good in 2003. Radically different times before WoW brought masses of casuals into the market. 7 years later, yes it would have been considered a fail to get 300k, but back then that was probably above average.
300k and bleeding. Also, 1,000,000 boxes sold -> 300,000 is 700,000 lost at that point. It was a ROI reason even if you don't believe it or like it.
Take a guess at how many people have tried WoW and stopped playing it. Tons.
70% of WoW trial accounts quit before even reaching level 10.
Considering that SWG had no trial at the time, the only way to trial the game was from the free first month.
So I guess by your logic that makes WoW a failure as well.
People talk about SWG failing for this reason or that. It simply "failed" because SOE listened to all the whiners on the forums....period. Anyone in the game at release, that wasn't a forum whiner themselves, could've told you that. It was the game with the most potential most of us had ever seen, but SOE caved to them. Oh well. WoW came out and it didn't matter much for most people.
Now we have the chance to experience Star Wars in an environment, once again, and are clinging to the hope that it will deliver. MMO's are so much further along than when something like SWG came out and expectations are extremely high due to the experiences we've all had in the last several years. 11 million people played WoW and now everyone thinks they're MMORPG experts.
People on forums can't stand to hear it, but the games that succeed don't just have a great platform and the best creative minds at work.....those minds also know how to balance implementing the feedback they get. They accept the feedback that is viable and within the framework of what they're trying to achieve. The rest is rejected.
Win or lose in all our eyes, I hope Bioware sticks to their guns. Nothing ruins a game faster than caving to all the whiners.
The problem here is that you are assuming that SWG wasn't a failure from the beginning. Sure, you didn't like the change, but others did. The fact that you, personally, do not like something, does not make it a failure. This is something most gamers (but swg fans in particular) really need to learn.
You're assuming that it was a failure from the beginning. Furthermore, significantly more people hated the NGE changes than those who did. The subscriber base dropped considerably faster from NGE than it was before, to half of what it was just before NGE hit.
And you should take your own advice into consideration. Just because you didn't like the original SWG, doesn't mean it was a failure either.
You're assuming that it was a failure from the beginning. Furthermore, significantly more people hated the NGE changes than those who did. The subscriber base dropped considerably faster from NGE than it was before, to half of what it was just before NGE hit.
And you should take your own advice into consideration. Just because you didn't like the original SWG, doesn't mean it was a failure either.
But the subscriber base WAS already dropping before NGE, at a large click of 10k per month. The game was not healthy. NGE was just a badly designed last-ditch effort to make the game popular. It failed and hasted the downfall of the game, but the key word here is "hastened" since the game was already doing badly.
People talk about SWG failing for this reason or that. It simply "failed" because SOE listened to all the whiners on the forums....period. Anyone in the game at release, that wasn't a forum whiner themselves, could've told you that. It was the game with the most potential most of us had ever seen, but SOE caved to them. Oh well. WoW came out and it didn't matter much for most people.
Now we have the chance to experience Star Wars in an environment, once again, and are clinging to the hope that it will deliver. MMO's are so much further along than when something like SWG came out and expectations are extremely high due to the experiences we've all had in the last several years. 11 million people played WoW and now everyone thinks they're MMORPG experts.
People on forums can't stand to hear it, but the games that succeed don't just have a great platform and the best creative minds at work.....those minds also know how to balance implementing the feedback they get. They accept the feedback that is viable and within the framework of what they're trying to achieve. The rest is rejected.
Win or lose in all our eyes, I hope Bioware sticks to their guns. Nothing ruins a game faster than caving to all the whiners.
The problem here is that you are assuming that SWG wasn't a failure from the beginning. Sure, you didn't like the change, but others did. The fact that you, personally, do not like something, does not make it a failure. This is something most gamers (but swg fans in particular) really need to learn.
Umm your Wrong SWG wasnt a failure from Launch the only MMO that was a failure from Launch that SOE made was Vanguard SOH. SWG from Launch to CU was ok then from CU to NGE it got progressively worse. Then when they came out with the NGE(I hate to say this but it is true) they turned SWG to WoW In Space and at that point SOE placed SWG into a coffin and pretty much placed all the good devs on other projects like EQ2 and Planetside.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
You're assuming that it was a failure from the beginning. Furthermore, significantly more people hated the NGE changes than those who did. The subscriber base dropped considerably faster from NGE than it was before, to half of what it was just before NGE hit.
And you should take your own advice into consideration. Just because you didn't like the original SWG, doesn't mean it was a failure either.
But the subscriber base WAS already dropping before NGE, at a large click of 10k per month. The game was not healthy. NGE was just a badly designed last-ditch effort to make the game popular. It failed and hasted the downfall of the game, but the key word here is "hastened" since the game was already doing badly.
Yes SWG was bleeding subscribers, but it was shedding off the MMO hoppers, but was still retaining it's core playerbase... until NGE hit and drove off the majority of it's core playerbase.
In other words, had NGE not come, and SOE actually spent the effort fixing the major bug and balance issues instead, the game would be significantly healthier than it is today.
Yes SWG was bleeding subscribers, but it was shedding off the MMO hoppers, but was still retaining it's core playerbase... until NGE hit and drove off the majority of it's core playerbase.
In other words, had NGE not come, and SOE actually spent the effort fixing the major bug and balance issues instead, the game would be significantly healthier than it is today.
This; you cannot forget that the new expansion and significant improvements had *just* been made when the 'NGE' was unveiled. I certainly believe that had the changes which were made been given a chance SWG would be far healthier today than it is now. I'm reasonably confident that had it kept the CU/expansion changes instead of the NGE and continued with new content expansions, general bug squashing and such the game would easily have several times the subscribers it has now.
The NGE was an attempt to hit the reset button, nothing less. They had delusions of hitting the mega-subscriber which they felt the IP should be generating if they just made the game simple and shiney enough.
Yes SWG was bleeding subscribers, but it was shedding off the MMO hoppers, but was still retaining it's core playerbase... until NGE hit and drove off the majority of it's core playerbase.
In other words, had NGE not come, and SOE actually spent the effort fixing the major bug and balance issues instead, the game would be significantly healthier than it is today.
This; you cannot forget that the new expansion and significant improvements had *just* been made when the 'NGE' was unveiled. I certainly believe that had the changes which were made been given a chance SWG would be far healthier today than it is now. I'm reasonably confident that had it kept the CU/expansion changes instead of the NGE and continued with new content expansions, general bug squashing and such the game would easily have several times the subscribers it has now.
The NGE was an attempt to hit the reset button, nothing less. They had delusions of hitting the mega-subscriber which they felt the IP should be generating if they just made the game simple and shiney enough.
10k People per month for months is not normal. The whole reason NGE was made was because of this significant loss. You guys can romanticize the game all you want, but that doesn't change the facts. SWG was not doing well before NGE was even considered, as the Devs involved have attested (they've also said NGE was poorly thought out and implemented).
Umm the reason why SWTOR doesnt feel like what you think makes SWG seem like a true Star Wars game is because its based 4000 years before the rise of Darth Vader. The story takes place after the first Sith War(Knights of the Old Republic). Everything BioWare is doing is from scratch George Lucas started the story at Episode IV so there is no true storyline for BioWare to follow at the point in Star Wars Lore for SWTOR to follow. Please cut them some slack dont hate a game that is still in Stage 1 Beta Testing, Wait till you either get in to Closed Beta or Open Beta(which ever happens first) Play it longer than 30 minutes and then come back and say you hate it. Untill you have tried something all your claims of hatred is just an assumption.
Every game to be featured on this site will have it's detractors and this game is going to suffer extra from the fact that it is the second star wars game set in a time not covered by the original source material to the themepark vs sandbox design argument, don't get too incenced over it because just as much as people are going to anticipate the game (like myself) just as many will voice their displeasure with it it's all good we'll see when it's released whether it satisfies any of us, and the best thing about the game to me is it can show most of the detractors right and could still possibly satisfy myself and I'm sure many others out there.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Comments
The Nagus has spoken. That'll be 3 slips of Gold Pressed Latinum.
Seriously, though, good food for thought for some.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Isn't there a rule of acquisition about getting the money up front?
no shit sherlock.
but bioware is not doing anything "from scratch".
take a look at the armor, vehicles and spaceship models.
it seems the kaminoans have been producing clone armor 4000 BBY, kuat drive systems producing similar venator class destroyers 4000 BBY, Aratech producing suspiciously similar speederbikes to those in the of the clone wars era...
which i might add were all produced for the republic. suddenly the sith empire uses very similar models.
and i'm not even going to go into sith witches, mages or whatever it is they are calling the sith now.
300k was pretty good in 2003. Radically different times before WoW brought masses of casuals into the market. 7 years later, yes it would have been considered a fail to get 300k, but back then that was probably above average.
At least SWG had a sense of community. The rivalries, and the well known crafters you'd go to for the very best. Chatting in a buff line, chatting in the cantina healing yourself/buffed while forming a hunting party. When I quit and picked up WoW like the droves in SWG claimed to be doing pre-release, I couldn't help but feel it was like the comminity of WoW was like a pile of shit had dropped on it. WoW was a good game, but the community stank. I fear with more linear storyline and the choice to solo the entire game, SWTOR will have a shit poor community like WoW.
300k and bleeding. Also, 1,000,000 boxes sold -> 300,000 is 700,000 lost at that point. It was a ROI reason even if you don't believe it or like it.
Well yeah, SWG didn't hold your hand and give you everything you wanted without working towards it. Everything valuable was harvested ,crafted, and put in personal shops. It was deffinently a intimidating game to anybody who couldnt invest more than an hour a night.
Let's face it, MMO players really want glorified action/arcade games with stat gear that drop from raids. That is 95% of your MMORPG crowd. I even play those themeparks, but I still hate the shitty communities. SWG had it's problems but the playerbase and immersion more than made up for it.
You don't need to be all upset over the industry.
Not really. Should I be? I did say that I still play themeparks right? Yes I did.
Thought the sentence seemed strange.
Answering to the topic of the thread - Nowhere did it ever say that Bioware was making this game to please SWG fans. SWTOR not being star wars is a stupid statement, because it most definetly is star wars, but its not SWG. We can easily say that SWG isnt star wars. Why? Because its not one of the 3 original films. Hell we can say episodes 1-3 are not star wars. Another topic that I recently overread on the forum is the whole WoW clone thing. WHO GIVES A DAMN AS LONG AS ITS NOT WOW? Lets face it, there was nothing wrong with WoW besides the community and the fact that all the real pve encounters have been replaced with walking/flying/hovering/levitating loot bags. I am disappointed in some of the features of SWTOR but sadly we cant truly know what they will be like unless they release info or the game is out (If a game has a jump feature then ill give it a try any day.) unless you are one of those highly repectable members of the mmorpg.com community that just happen to have future insight powers, lucky assholes. So, you can remain loyal to SWG or you can give SWTOR a roll and see if you actually like it.
World of Warcraft is the original creation of God. Real Life is in fact a WoW clone.
Where are these SWG fans saying that swtor is not starwarsy enough? I was a huge SWG fan before NGE. I can't wait for swtor. I get all teary eyed watching the cinematic trailers. The game will be great I'm sure. It will be like the Kotor stories, which are not as good as the original movies or some of the books, but are decent.
Do I wish they would make SWG2 at some point, hell yes. But my gaming interests are varied and I have a place in my heart for both theme park and sandbox games. For whatever reason it is more difficult to make a good sandbox game, so I'm not going to stay up waiting for the next good one. (EVE sucks)
Yep, Freddy, you're right. That means the price is doubled to pay for administrative fees for that mishap.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I do not think swtor is gonna kill star wars lore. Just to oposite like all novels it will just add to it. As for swg fans not liking swtor probably not. Swg let u do pretty much whatever u wanted . There is alot of swtor we dont know. What we do know is it will be a story based game.
They have group play they have lots of planets. They have a bunch of races u can play and enough classes to start a game out. I know alot of the complaints are u cant play wookie or rhodian or mon cal. I dont mind what ive read about swtor. U gotta keep in mind they will probably add classes and maybe races in xpacs.
Wow has done this very well. Also story driven mmos just do more buisness then a sandbox one does. Wow isnt a sandbox and its got 11.5 mil subscribers. I dont know what the best sandbox game is but its base is no where near wows. So bioware is gonna go in the direction they are best known for story driven mmos.
When bioware announced there game how anyone could think it would be a sandbox game is beyond me. Bioware mythic is known for great pvp games and for story. Im hoping they get the leveling stuff better in swtor then they did in warhammer.
That said u gotta know the pvp should be top notch. We also dont knwo everything about the game. I do like that they are going more a wow direction then an eve online sandbox approach though. Having playeed wow on pvp servers its no fun gettting ganked by high level guys when u are trying to level and camped.
So give it a chance If u dont like it once u play it go play something else. Trouble is if u were gonna follow swg or wow whod u choose if im a game company id follow wows direction. 11.5 mil or 300 k gees which route works best.
People talk about SWG failing for this reason or that. It simply "failed" because SOE listened to all the whiners on the forums....period. Anyone in the game at release, that wasn't a forum whiner themselves, could've told you that. It was the game with the most potential most of us had ever seen, but SOE caved to them. Oh well. WoW came out and it didn't matter much for most people.
Now we have the chance to experience Star Wars in an environment, once again, and are clinging to the hope that it will deliver. MMO's are so much further along than when something like SWG came out and expectations are extremely high due to the experiences we've all had in the last several years. 11 million people played WoW and now everyone thinks they're MMORPG experts.
People on forums can't stand to hear it, but the games that succeed don't just have a great platform and the best creative minds at work.....those minds also know how to balance implementing the feedback they get. They accept the feedback that is viable and within the framework of what they're trying to achieve. The rest is rejected.
Win or lose in all our eyes, I hope Bioware sticks to their guns. Nothing ruins a game faster than caving to all the whiners.
Yep, Not really a Star Wars problem here. I think people konw about one SW MMO and that was SWG, so if it isn't sandbox or SWG enough they think that it isn't star warsy enough.
Sandbox and SWG is not the only way to make a star wars MMO. I think this game will prove itself to be more star wars than anything SWG ever tried to do. Even if it is based severl 1000 years before the movies. I prefer a game based 1000 of years before the movie anyhow. It adds to the Star Wars history and timeline, and they have room to work around the lore of the Star Wars universe.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I completely agree with this.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
The problem here is that you are assuming that SWG wasn't a failure from the beginning. Sure, you didn't like the change, but others did. The fact that you, personally, do not like something, does not make it a failure. This is something most gamers (but swg fans in particular) really need to learn.
Take a guess at how many people have tried WoW and stopped playing it. Tons.
70% of WoW trial accounts quit before even reaching level 10.
Considering that SWG had no trial at the time, the only way to trial the game was from the free first month.
So I guess by your logic that makes WoW a failure as well.
You're assuming that it was a failure from the beginning. Furthermore, significantly more people hated the NGE changes than those who did. The subscriber base dropped considerably faster from NGE than it was before, to half of what it was just before NGE hit.
And you should take your own advice into consideration. Just because you didn't like the original SWG, doesn't mean it was a failure either.
But the subscriber base WAS already dropping before NGE, at a large click of 10k per month. The game was not healthy. NGE was just a badly designed last-ditch effort to make the game popular. It failed and hasted the downfall of the game, but the key word here is "hastened" since the game was already doing badly.
Umm your Wrong SWG wasnt a failure from Launch the only MMO that was a failure from Launch that SOE made was Vanguard SOH. SWG from Launch to CU was ok then from CU to NGE it got progressively worse. Then when they came out with the NGE(I hate to say this but it is true) they turned SWG to WoW In Space and at that point SOE placed SWG into a coffin and pretty much placed all the good devs on other projects like EQ2 and Planetside.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Yes SWG was bleeding subscribers, but it was shedding off the MMO hoppers, but was still retaining it's core playerbase... until NGE hit and drove off the majority of it's core playerbase.
In other words, had NGE not come, and SOE actually spent the effort fixing the major bug and balance issues instead, the game would be significantly healthier than it is today.
This; you cannot forget that the new expansion and significant improvements had *just* been made when the 'NGE' was unveiled. I certainly believe that had the changes which were made been given a chance SWG would be far healthier today than it is now. I'm reasonably confident that had it kept the CU/expansion changes instead of the NGE and continued with new content expansions, general bug squashing and such the game would easily have several times the subscribers it has now.
The NGE was an attempt to hit the reset button, nothing less. They had delusions of hitting the mega-subscriber which they felt the IP should be generating if they just made the game simple and shiney enough.
no one has pointed out to the OP that lucas did not write episode 4 first.
as for swg it was fun.
die.
10k People per month for months is not normal. The whole reason NGE was made was because of this significant loss. You guys can romanticize the game all you want, but that doesn't change the facts. SWG was not doing well before NGE was even considered, as the Devs involved have attested (they've also said NGE was poorly thought out and implemented).
Every game to be featured on this site will have it's detractors and this game is going to suffer extra from the fact that it is the second star wars game set in a time not covered by the original source material to the themepark vs sandbox design argument, don't get too incenced over it because just as much as people are going to anticipate the game (like myself) just as many will voice their displeasure with it it's all good we'll see when it's released whether it satisfies any of us, and the best thing about the game to me is it can show most of the detractors right and could still possibly satisfy myself and I'm sure many others out there.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....