Oh and for the record, i normally beat same lvl rogues in duels. Normally beat shamans, cant realy beat preists unless their noobed, same goes for mages, hunters i can kill if i get the jump on them, aint realy had a fight with paladins, druids or warlocks.
But with a 2hand axe that gives battle crits of 400 damage you can kill anyone if they make a mistake, i find rogues and hunters die the most vs me.
Originally posted by BuZeR Okay im a lvl 30 warrior, and i didnt bother reading all the posts (only read page 1) so im sorry if im repeating. Warriors are bascilly tanks, they are in every game. Of course Rogues and Mages should out damage warriors or why else would anyone go them? Rogues cant tank though, i have 2000 armour my rogue mate has like 580. "warriors have no pvp quirk skills"Well im only lvl 30 and so far i have Retalation (every time im hit i counterattack for 15 seconds - use a slow 2hand weapon and any melee dies in a few seconds) i also have a defencive move that blocks all spell, melee and ranged dmg 75% for 15 seconds. I have also trained my Overpower abilitiy awell as other things so every time someone dodges my attack i can use overpower and it has 50% chance to crit. We also get Hamstring that slows movment by 75%, and all this by lvl 30... I aint realy looked but im sure we will get alot more by lvl 60.Warriors are a good class to go, but your equipment will make or break you. Also your DPS, as it should, will be alot lower then a Rogue or a Mage (classes that are made for DPS). But Warriors are needed in a group, go try take on an orrange end elite without one...
by quirk skills i mean a skill to break out of ensnare effects... frost nova anyone?.
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My point is that if a rogue(same lvl) had really good gear and a warrior (same lvl) had similar gear then the rogue would win.
Why?, rogues could add poisons to the weapons. Also retaliation is good but once you've experienced it you know you just have to run around and wait for it to fade off the warrior then come back a swinging. Generally i vanish at that point and come back for a cheap shot then kidney shot again so the warrior gets nicely stunned.
[EDIT] My rogue aint backstab rogue, he was Sword/Mace.
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Well i took out a lvl 38 rogue today (im 29) in booty bay, yay for retal. Well even if they do know about it... Them running around for 15 seconds while you hit them in the back, their stuffed either way. I think you should reroll another class because no matter what anyone says you wills till say they suck... Maybe its jsut you?
Either way it seems thats 40% of warriors are decent in PvP and 60% of warriors whinge because they cant kill anyone. Btw mages should always kill any Melee class... But thats about all they can kill.
You guys kill me with your "why does my class suck" bs. All the classes are good, warrior is good also, best thing to do is .. get some skills. Basically with skills you will always stand a chance. As long as you are looking at it from a class vs class" perspective - well that's just weak.
Originally posted by Helixwolf Heh. You think warriors suck.. Try searching the WoW boards about Druids. People left and right are complaining about them being gimped. I play as one aswell.
The higher i get the more i see shamans sucking... If ya want to whine whinge about Paladins or Preists. At least get it right.
You gota remember WoW has put effort into balancing the classes at higher lvls. Because give it a mths and thats where we will al be. The classes will change alot by the way they have been speced (talants, what weapons, ie polearms or duel weild) and the players pvp skill.
Though atm it does seem pvp is more classes based then skill, but hopefully they still got a bit of tweaking planed.
Oh and also, no one i know wants shamans in their group. Mainly because it seems like all the random noobs rolled shamans and most of them seem to be retarded. They always have to DoT and pull aggro of the warriors... Then with their 500 armour they either die or waste all the mana of our healers.
Although now i can hold aggro alot better and they dont seem to manage to pull aggro as much anymore, but at the low-mid 20's it was realy bad. Think that was pre-defencive stance tweak.
But lnext time you wish to start a thread like this, dont jsut yell "OMG WARRIORS ARE TEH NOOB" like some hobo, make a list of why you think they stuck and people can point out if thats the way you speced, if its jsut a problem at your lvl or if indeed its a class issue. Then you can try contact Blizzard.
But starting a flame thread like this will get you no where.
I agree: warriors do suck. I was grouped with one yesterday, at the yeti cave in Hillsbrad, and the guy couldn't hold aggro if his life depended on it. My Voidwalker (which I used later, after seeing how much he sucked) did a better job.
I think the main problem with Warriors is the player who plays them incorrectly and has the wrong expectations.
First off, every single warrior in a group has one role...Tank. Therefore those warriors SHOULD be carrying a Shield. I know for a fact that 99% of them dont (nobody seems to). Check the Auction house on Alleria server, the top shields only sell for like 9 silver and even then dont get bought. I looted a nice +438 armor shield with some stats off a spider in Wetlands and couldnt give them dang thing away. I checked the Auctions, my shield was the best available and didnt sell for my asking price of 25 silver. If that were the equivalent of a chest plate or sword, it would be worth 5 gold.
So why dont warriors carry shields ? So they can use two handed swords which are more powerful than single hand ones. Thats the problem thinking right there. Yes a nice sword is good but not 100% essential to your class. Your job is to take damage, not deal it out. Unrealistic expectations here is the issue. Too often the complaints lean towards the thinking that damage output should be in line with rogues. Wrong answer there, a rogue cant take a pounding like you can.
In conclusion, warriors arent "sucky" they just arent your cup of tea. If you want a balance of damage and some defense then go rogue. Warrior's role has always been that of a tank with minimal damage in every single mmorpg ever. Why should WoW allow that to change
Originally posted by Bigx I play a 22 orc warr. The one thing that just pisses me off is the fear from a warlock. Odd thing is I was talking to a warlock and asked what his health at. He said 944 with +12 on his stam. I was like wtf god damn. With +32 in stam I still had little less health then him. That does not make any sense to me what so ever. Isnt spell damage like bypass the af rating? If it does then it is crap to see a cloth caster with more health and can just kite and kill the lower life warr. I can't remember how man duels I have seen where the rogue straight up kill a warr and that is without stealth. With the af factor better on a warr, but lower health then the rogue. Warr already seem like a rare breed and rogues are everywhere. Hopefully 1 day blizzard will make some changes. They will only make changes if enough people complain about the class.
This post scares me. This is exactly how SWG got screwed up . People whining all the time on the forums because they got beat in PvP. Hopefully Blizzard will realize PvP is not all important and screw up PvE with a nerf because some warrior doesnt like getting beat down by a warlock.
SOE nerfed BH's eyeshot because other prof screamed "overpowered" Then SOE nerfed CH because people screamed "pokemon wars" and look at the game now...awful, unbalanced, and dead in the water.
warriors arent sucky if you know how to use them but i would say for alliance palladins are the best there like warriors but they can enchant and heal.
Therefore those warriors SHOULD be carrying a Shield. I know for a fact that 99% of them dont (nobody seems to). So why dont warriors carry shields ? So they can use two handed swords which are more powerful than single hand ones. Thats the problem thinking right there.
This is an EXCELLANT post, and you are 100% RIGHT! However, and I have a warrior, the "lure" of damage is very hard to resist. The problem is when you solo, sure, you can take damage, but you are trying to kill your target before it can deal you damage, and without an adequate ranged attack (other than charge, which is sort of ranged), you are always running into the melee.
Yes - warriors are supposed to tank, I agree. The problem is in a melee with 2 or 3 chars. I can kill one, but have to take damage from the other two, and it just adds up.
I found in City of Heroes that a warrior needs to move around, hit and move. In WoW, you don't have things like super speed or jump, but there are a lot of weapons a warrior can use other than just slinging his/her sword. Like remove armor, hamstring, rend, etc. If you combo your attacks, you will do better. If you walk up and mash heroic strike, you probably will get killed a lot.
Bottom line: playing a warrior requires a good strategy. Learn your chars abilities, and work out how you attack creatures with your combo attacks. It takes time, but you can be good. My warrior is only L11, but I will get back to her after my hunter hits L40 (I need more playing time, now that is what we should be whining about !!)
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I always carry a sheild and i can hold aggro fine. I find that defencive stance with a sheild and an Axe while spamming Sunder Armour (best combat move for gaining mob hate that i have found).
Also why do people think Paladins are so good? I got told this all the time, and i thought they were good from what i have heard. But recently i seen and killed a few of them, their pritty crapy vs a Warrior...
Im a lvl 31 Orc Warrior atm and 1hour or so ago i ran into a lvl 34 Paladin and a lvl 25 Warrior. They both tryed to gank me. So they jumped me before i could use Charge and get some rage so i had to use my BP that gives and 20 Rage ( clicky effect ) and Bloodfury ( gives me 2 Rage every 2 seconds for 10 seconds - something like that ), i then equiped my 2hand Axe and started beating down on the Warrior, its a 28.7 DPS axe, slowist one i could find - has 80-130dmg or something like that. Then i used Retaliate ( i counter attack every time im hit from the front ) and started using Cleave (hits 2 targets). I didnt even need to use a pot, the Paladin died first after user 2 cheals ( only dmg i did to her was from Retaliate and Cleave ) then the Warrior tryed to run and i Hamstringed ( slows movment by 30% ) him, and then killed him. Ended up on around 30% hp.
And as i said before, when i was lvl 29 i killed a lvl 38 rogue... I dont think its the Warrior class that sucks, just the people who play them. I have had no problems.
Your point being? Thats like saying Mages suck at PvP because they can only kite you? lol
Also just about killed a lvl 38 mage while he was in a PvP romp group was rather funny. Saw this group of 4 high lvl 30's charging me, so i do Charge on the Mage... wait for them all to be in meele range, use AoE Fear and i put some beat down on the Mage, got him to redline before his mates got back and killed me. I was lvl 32.
na warriors dont suck. at least not compared to the "normal" clases...
people keep comparing them to paladins, one of the 2 classes more overpowered in the freaking game(shamis is the other)...my friend was a level 24 warrior and he could stand very much on his own, unlike my mage, constantly dying because a mob spawn behind my back, or because my frost nova got resisted lol. but together we made a very good team.
and remember thats the single class besides paladins that can tank, so if you improve thier dps you could screw the balance yet more...
maybe they could fix the way they gain rage, so thats not so restrictive.
Comments
Oh and for the record, i normally beat same lvl rogues in duels. Normally beat shamans, cant realy beat preists unless their noobed, same goes for mages, hunters i can kill if i get the jump on them, aint realy had a fight with paladins, druids or warlocks.
But with a 2hand axe that gives battle crits of 400 damage you can kill anyone if they make a mistake, i find rogues and hunters die the most vs me.
by quirk skills i mean a skill to break out of ensnare effects... frost nova anyone?.
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My point is that if a rogue(same lvl) had really good gear and a warrior (same lvl) had similar gear then the rogue would win.
Why?, rogues could add poisons to the weapons. Also retaliation is good but once you've experienced it you know you just have to run around and wait for it to fade off the warrior then come back a swinging. Generally i vanish at that point and come back for a cheap shot then kidney shot again so the warrior gets nicely stunned.
[EDIT] My rogue aint backstab rogue, he was Sword/Mace.
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Well i took out a lvl 38 rogue today (im 29) in booty bay, yay for retal. Well even if they do know about it... Them running around for 15 seconds while you hit them in the back, their stuffed either way. I think you should reroll another class because no matter what anyone says you wills till say they suck... Maybe its jsut you?
Either way it seems thats 40% of warriors are decent in PvP and 60% of warriors whinge because they cant kill anyone. Btw mages should always kill any Melee class... But thats about all they can kill.
As an additional though, maybe it was how you spent your talents, how dod you spec them?
You guys kill me with your "why does my class suck" bs. All the classes are good, warrior is good also, best thing to do is .. get some skills. Basically with skills you will always stand a chance. As long as you are looking at it from a class vs class" perspective - well that's just weak.
Mentat
saying that all the classes are balanced vs each other is slightly nieve (sp?)
Just go play a shaman then play a warrior.
One time i saw a shaman being a better tank than a warrior :P. He kicked ass. If i didn't have such an aversion to shamans id be one.
its like being a priest/fighter/totem man all in one. Everyone wants you in a party, you can solo and you kick butt in pvp.
Prob is shaman is gay :P. Yup i saw him one day he is a gay shaman :P.
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The higher i get the more i see shamans sucking... If ya want to whine whinge about Paladins or Preists. At least get it right.
You gota remember WoW has put effort into balancing the classes at higher lvls. Because give it a mths and thats where we will al be. The classes will change alot by the way they have been speced (talants, what weapons, ie polearms or duel weild) and the players pvp skill.
Though atm it does seem pvp is more classes based then skill, but hopefully they still got a bit of tweaking planed.
Oh and also, no one i know wants shamans in their group. Mainly because it seems like all the random noobs rolled shamans and most of them seem to be retarded. They always have to DoT and pull aggro of the warriors... Then with their 500 armour they either die or waste all the mana of our healers.
Although now i can hold aggro alot better and they dont seem to manage to pull aggro as much anymore, but at the low-mid 20's it was realy bad. Think that was pre-defencive stance tweak.
But lnext time you wish to start a thread like this, dont jsut yell "OMG WARRIORS ARE TEH NOOB" like some hobo, make a list of why you think they stuck and people can point out if thats the way you speced, if its jsut a problem at your lvl or if indeed its a class issue. Then you can try contact Blizzard.
But starting a flame thread like this will get you no where.
I think the main problem with Warriors is the player who plays them incorrectly and has the wrong expectations.
First off, every single warrior in a group has one role...Tank. Therefore those warriors SHOULD be carrying a Shield. I know for a fact that 99% of them dont (nobody seems to). Check the Auction house on Alleria server, the top shields only sell for like 9 silver and even then dont get bought. I looted a nice +438 armor shield with some stats off a spider in Wetlands and couldnt give them dang thing away. I checked the Auctions, my shield was the best available and didnt sell for my asking price of 25 silver. If that were the equivalent of a chest plate or sword, it would be worth 5 gold.
So why dont warriors carry shields ? So they can use two handed swords which are more powerful than single hand ones. Thats the problem thinking right there. Yes a nice sword is good but not 100% essential to your class. Your job is to take damage, not deal it out. Unrealistic expectations here is the issue. Too often the complaints lean towards the thinking that damage output should be in line with rogues. Wrong answer there, a rogue cant take a pounding like you can.
In conclusion, warriors arent "sucky" they just arent your cup of tea. If you want a balance of damage and some defense then go rogue. Warrior's role has always been that of a tank with minimal damage in every single mmorpg ever. Why should WoW allow that to change
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This is an EXCELLANT post, and you are 100% RIGHT! However, and I have a warrior, the "lure" of damage is very hard to resist. The problem is when you solo, sure, you can take damage, but you are trying to kill your target before it can deal you damage, and without an adequate ranged attack (other than charge, which is sort of ranged), you are always running into the melee.
Yes - warriors are supposed to tank, I agree. The problem is in a melee with 2 or 3 chars. I can kill one, but have to take damage from the other two, and it just adds up.
I found in City of Heroes that a warrior needs to move around, hit and move. In WoW, you don't have things like super speed or jump, but there are a lot of weapons a warrior can use other than just slinging his/her sword. Like remove armor, hamstring, rend, etc. If you combo your attacks, you will do better. If you walk up and mash heroic strike, you probably will get killed a lot.
Bottom line: playing a warrior requires a good strategy. Learn your chars abilities, and work out how you attack creatures with your combo attacks. It takes time, but you can be good. My warrior is only L11, but I will get back to her after my hunter hits L40 (I need more playing time, now that is what we should be whining about !!)
Currently playing:
City of Heroes
World of Warcraft
Currently playing:
World of Warcraft
I always carry a sheild and i can hold aggro fine. I find that defencive stance with a sheild and an Axe while spamming Sunder Armour (best combat move for gaining mob hate that i have found).
Also why do people think Paladins are so good? I got told this all the time, and i thought they were good from what i have heard. But recently i seen and killed a few of them, their pritty crapy vs a Warrior...
Im a lvl 31 Orc Warrior atm and 1hour or so ago i ran into a lvl 34 Paladin and a lvl 25 Warrior. They both tryed to gank me. So they jumped me before i could use Charge and get some rage so i had to use my BP that gives and 20 Rage ( clicky effect ) and Bloodfury ( gives me 2 Rage every 2 seconds for 10 seconds - something like that ), i then equiped my 2hand Axe and started beating down on the Warrior, its a 28.7 DPS axe, slowist one i could find - has 80-130dmg or something like that. Then i used Retaliate ( i counter attack every time im hit from the front ) and started using Cleave (hits 2 targets). I didnt even need to use a pot, the Paladin died first after user 2 cheals ( only dmg i did to her was from Retaliate and Cleave ) then the Warrior tryed to run and i Hamstringed ( slows movment by 30% ) him, and then killed him. Ended up on around 30% hp.
And as i said before, when i was lvl 29 i killed a lvl 38 rogue... I dont think its the Warrior class that sucks, just the people who play them. I have had no problems.
retaliate is the only way your gonna win tho...
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Your point being? Thats like saying Mages suck at PvP because they can only kite you? lol
Also just about killed a lvl 38 mage while he was in a PvP romp group was rather funny.
Saw this group of 4 high lvl 30's charging me, so i do Charge on the Mage... wait for them all to be in meele range, use AoE Fear and i put some beat down on the Mage, got him to redline before his mates got back and killed me. I was lvl 32.
Would of been funny if he died
na warriors dont suck. at least not compared to the "normal" clases...
people keep comparing them to paladins, one of the 2 classes more overpowered in the freaking game(shamis is the other)...my friend was a level 24 warrior and he could stand very much on his own, unlike my mage, constantly dying because a mob spawn behind my back, or because my frost nova got resisted lol. but together we made a very good team.
and remember thats the single class besides paladins that can tank, so if you improve thier dps you could screw the balance yet more...
maybe they could fix the way they gain rage, so thats not so restrictive.