P2P games go free to play because they are no longer viable to coninue without doing so. DDO was dead at launch and LOTRO and EQ2 were both losing subs for sometime before making the move.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
It is ODD how people will call a f2p game a success by quoting the number of people playing it. My take would be "how much money is the game taking in?". Number of people playing a f2p title means nothing if there is no income to keep it going. Obviously, those companies have thought of that. They have provided alternate revenue streams like in game stores and such. Doing so though fosters the question "If you are paying for anything in the game, how does that qualify that same game as f2p?". Yes, I understand that these companies need income. Yes, I understand that an in game store is a way to get that income. BUT, what I do not understand is how people can continue to call such a situation f2p....it is not.
Yep, you make way too much sense
It's not really F2P, it's F2A (free-to-access) and not that much unlike an unlimited trial that makes it more and more onerous to go along in the game. The number of people trying out the game for free is not indicative of success. What is is when they decide to pay money for something.
Until then, the paying customers are essentially subsidizing the free players.
To the guy who said that LotRO might be like DDO in that you never have to pay money to play it, well... I think you can if you want to constantly roll low level alts on many servers who grind out deeds over and over again. I bet to a lot of people it would be unfun and they'd just rather pay to unlock things.
But then what's one man's pain is another man's pleasure...
[quote]Another is THQ, which has dipped its proverbial toe in the water via its joint venture publishing Dragonica.[/quote]
THQ*ICE has shutdown.
It is valid to point out that Richard may have missed this...
However, the simple counter is Company of Heroes Online... A game that THQ is publishing directly, and that is currently in OB... and is F2P.
Originally posted by Luczifer
I'm tired to write long against f2p.... Have done so many times.
I hope that idea of f2p is like idea of communism - jumping out promising happyness for everyone and ends soon with concentration camps and killing of millions before it is vanished into trashcan of history. An if there stay some asian f2p then it is like north-korea with his kims which used as baddest example what can happened when ppl try to run for "free".
I wish that after 1-2 years we look back and throw jokes about such a stupid idea as f2p ))
Interesting... because I find F2P a perfect expression of capitolism. Customers pay only if they feel that the product is good, and do so in a highly competitive market. P2P is about hype and marketting, where the sales are made sight unseen.
[quote]Another is THQ, which has dipped its proverbial toe in the water via its joint venture publishing Dragonica.[/quote]
THQ*ICE has shutdown.
It is valid to point out that Richard may have missed this...
However, the simple counter is Company of Heroes Online... A game that THQ is publishing directly, and that is currently in OB... and is F2P.
Originally posted by Luczifer
I'm tired to write long against f2p.... Have done so many times.
I hope that idea of f2p is like idea of communism - jumping out promising happyness for everyone and ends soon with concentration camps and killing of millions before it is vanished into trashcan of history. An if there stay some asian f2p then it is like north-korea with his kims which used as baddest example what can happened when ppl try to run for "free".
I wish that after 1-2 years we look back and throw jokes about such a stupid idea as f2p ))
Interesting... because I find F2P a perfect expression of capitolism. Customers pay only if they feel that the product is good, and do so in a highly competitive market. P2P is about hype and marketting, where the sales are made sight unseen.
So there was / is no hype on Turbines part? Check out hte home page here.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
[quote]Another is THQ, which has dipped its proverbial toe in the water via its joint venture publishing Dragonica.[/quote]
THQ*ICE has shutdown.
It is valid to point out that Richard may have missed this...
However, the simple counter is Company of Heroes Online... A game that THQ is publishing directly, and that is currently in OB... and is F2P.
Originally posted by Luczifer
I'm tired to write long against f2p.... Have done so many times.
I hope that idea of f2p is like idea of communism - jumping out promising happyness for everyone and ends soon with concentration camps and killing of millions before it is vanished into trashcan of history. An if there stay some asian f2p then it is like north-korea with his kims which used as baddest example what can happened when ppl try to run for "free".
I wish that after 1-2 years we look back and throw jokes about such a stupid idea as f2p ))
Interesting... because I find F2P a perfect expression of capitolism. Customers pay only if they feel that the product is good, and do so in a highly competitive market. P2P is about hype and marketting, where the sales are made sight unseen.
So there was / is no hype on Turbines part? Check out hte home page here.
Sure, there is hype.. they would be stupid NOT to have it... but you still dont have to pay before you see the product.
P2P requires that you pay BEFORE you get the product. If you dont like it afterwards, you are out the money, and they are that much richer.
F2P allows you to use the product first, then pay for it if you like it. The product has to be good enough to get your money AFTER you have tried it.
Look at the recent examples of western launches... AOC, WAR, AION, where they made huge sales of the game.. only to have them drop after 30 days. This is how P2P makes money, by getting your money before you realize that you dont want the product.
[quote]Another is THQ, which has dipped its proverbial toe in the water via its joint venture publishing Dragonica.[/quote]
THQ*ICE has shutdown.
It is valid to point out that Richard may have missed this...
However, the simple counter is Company of Heroes Online... A game that THQ is publishing directly, and that is currently in OB... and is F2P.
Originally posted by Luczifer
I'm tired to write long against f2p.... Have done so many times.
I hope that idea of f2p is like idea of communism - jumping out promising happyness for everyone and ends soon with concentration camps and killing of millions before it is vanished into trashcan of history. An if there stay some asian f2p then it is like north-korea with his kims which used as baddest example what can happened when ppl try to run for "free".
I wish that after 1-2 years we look back and throw jokes about such a stupid idea as f2p ))
Interesting... because I find F2P a perfect expression of capitolism. Customers pay only if they feel that the product is good, and do so in a highly competitive market. P2P is about hype and marketting, where the sales are made sight unseen.
So there was / is no hype on Turbines part? Check out hte home page here.
Sure, there is hype.. they would be stupid NOT to have it... but you still dont have to pay before you see the product.
P2P requires that you pay BEFORE you get the product. If you dont like it afterwards, you are out the money, and they are that much richer.
F2P allows you to use the product first, then pay for it if you like it. The product has to be good enough to get your money AFTER you have tried it.
Look at the recent examples of western launches... AOC, WAR, AION, where they made huge sales of the game.. only to have them drop after 30 days. This is how P2P makes money, by getting your money before you realize that you dont want the product.
good point !
We can call it hype ( ewwww, nasty hypeagain ) or getting the product out to the public or whatever but with no 'hype', no one knows you are there.
FTP can be done well or poorly as well as PTP. There are more than a few P2P games that got my $$ for the box and some time and more $$ for a sub. AOC was a great example. The 1st 20 levels were great and, well the following levs weren't enough to keep me playing.
In GW1 I played for several years never having to spend another penny other than the initial box purchase. They sold over 6 million copies....not bad!!!
GW2 will be out soon and I hope its as good as it looks..I'm thinking it will be. I never played a game that long and from the way it looks GW2 will be even better. I don't doubt there will be an item shop that like GW1 would be cosmetic items only ( same is true for many P2P).
There is a part of me that hopes the constant QQ vs FTP crowd will stay away. I play to have fun and relax, not to listen to people complaining.
Let's use another example... CDs. When you buy a CD, you're not buying "ownership" of that music either. Only the right - the license - to listen to it.
Would it be "okay" with you, if 2 or 3 years after you bought that CD, the company suddenly says "Oh, even though you bought the CD already, you have to pay us again if you want to listen to any of those songs"?
That's a woeful analogy.
Stop pretending Turbine has suddenly decided you have to pay money again to play "something you bought".
You bought it knowing that it required an ongoing subscription to play.
You paid that subscription without complaint.
You never said "hey why can't I play this for free forever, I bought a box." Nobody did.
And now, just because they're giving away some bits for free, you're acting like you've been personally wronged because they won't give you EVERYTHING for free.
Entire game content is free, Exspansion content costs regular subscription fee. . LOVE IT
------ Playing MMO's since my first which was Ultima online, then Anarchy online. and so on.. Now a days im very critical before i ewen bother downloading a Free to play mmo.
Entire game content is free, Exspansion content costs regular subscription fee. . LOVE IT
I think it was acctualy a superb move from FC, without it AO would be dead by now... AO is moving towards micro-transaction world, there is some paid goodies which eases life a lot, but they are quite cheap and can be bought with points included in regular subcription.
That is old news, the newer stuff they are adding is services nane-changes, new accounts with previous bonuses and character transfers between accounts. And these aren't too cheap 10€/$ min per item... Which likely will also generate decent income. If the new engine can get more people and get new boost of people trying game like it had when it went F2P for basic game, it might be somewhat decent competitor. Don't know how their advertising-scheme is going...
I want more "AAA" level MMO's to use the B2P model. I would rather buy expansion content once or twice a year, and the occasional (once a year character slot or vanity item maybe) 'store' goody, than pay a sub fee.
F2p+cash shop isn't horrible, but I rarely if ever buy cash shop items except casually, and will not do so to keep myself competitive with other players.
I understand in a general sense the 'why' of the sub fee model, but it does not fit into my budget now. Cash shop purchases don't either. Buying an expansion content box once, maybe twice a year does, because my wife, daughter, or me can save up and then I can have them as Yule or birthday gifts.
I also want to see companies come up with other revenue models. Companies need to make money is a given. They need to find models that I can afford, or they don't get my money. So far, the B2P model works best for me. So either use that model, or come up with some new model.
I want more "AAA" level MMO's to use the B2P model. I would rather buy expansion content once or twice a year, and the occasional (once a year character slot or vanity item maybe) 'store' goody, than pay a sub fee.
F2p+cash shop isn't horrible, but I rarely if ever buy cash shop items except casually, and will not do so to keep myself competitive with other players.
I understand in a general sense the 'why' of the sub fee model, but it does not fit into my budget now. Cash shop purchases don't either. Buying an expansion content box once, maybe twice a year does, because my wife, daughter, or me can save up and then I can have them as Yule or birthday gifts.
I also want to see companies come up with other revenue models. Companies need to make money is a given. They need to find models that I can afford, or they don't get my money. So far, the B2P model works best for me. So either use that model, or come up with some new model.
All hail Guild Wars! All hail Arena Net!
*Like*
Playing: Ever quest 2 Played: MS,GW,EVE,LOTRO,WoW,Allods,Aion, CO,CoH,CoV,TQ Digital games, Darkfall,AoC,RS2. Liked: Dungeon fight online, GW, Darkfall and, Runescape. Waiting for: Link Realms(can't get my damn beta invite) KOTOR and, GW2
Comments
P2P games go free to play because they are no longer viable to coninue without doing so. DDO was dead at launch and LOTRO and EQ2 were both losing subs for sometime before making the move.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
And now being "F2P", they think will get more customers??? How people must be ignorant to accept f2p models like Lotro or EQ2?
Yep, you make way too much sense
It's not really F2P, it's F2A (free-to-access) and not that much unlike an unlimited trial that makes it more and more onerous to go along in the game. The number of people trying out the game for free is not indicative of success. What is is when they decide to pay money for something.
Until then, the paying customers are essentially subsidizing the free players.
To the guy who said that LotRO might be like DDO in that you never have to pay money to play it, well... I think you can if you want to constantly roll low level alts on many servers who grind out deeds over and over again. I bet to a lot of people it would be unfun and they'd just rather pay to unlock things.
But then what's one man's pain is another man's pleasure...
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
It is valid to point out that Richard may have missed this...
However, the simple counter is Company of Heroes Online... A game that THQ is publishing directly, and that is currently in OB... and is F2P.
Interesting... because I find F2P a perfect expression of capitolism. Customers pay only if they feel that the product is good, and do so in a highly competitive market. P2P is about hype and marketting, where the sales are made sight unseen.
So there was / is no hype on Turbines part? Check out hte home page here.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Sure, there is hype.. they would be stupid NOT to have it... but you still dont have to pay before you see the product.
P2P requires that you pay BEFORE you get the product. If you dont like it afterwards, you are out the money, and they are that much richer.
F2P allows you to use the product first, then pay for it if you like it. The product has to be good enough to get your money AFTER you have tried it.
Look at the recent examples of western launches... AOC, WAR, AION, where they made huge sales of the game.. only to have them drop after 30 days. This is how P2P makes money, by getting your money before you realize that you dont want the product.
good point !
We can call it hype ( ewwww, nasty hypeagain ) or getting the product out to the public or whatever but with no 'hype', no one knows you are there.
FTP can be done well or poorly as well as PTP. There are more than a few P2P games that got my $$ for the box and some time and more $$ for a sub. AOC was a great example. The 1st 20 levels were great and, well the following levs weren't enough to keep me playing.
In GW1 I played for several years never having to spend another penny other than the initial box purchase. They sold over 6 million copies....not bad!!!
GW2 will be out soon and I hope its as good as it looks..I'm thinking it will be. I never played a game that long and from the way it looks GW2 will be even better. I don't doubt there will be an item shop that like GW1 would be cosmetic items only ( same is true for many P2P).
There is a part of me that hopes the constant QQ vs FTP crowd will stay away. I play to have fun and relax, not to listen to people complaining.
That's a woeful analogy.
Stop pretending Turbine has suddenly decided you have to pay money again to play "something you bought".
You bought it knowing that it required an ongoing subscription to play.
You paid that subscription without complaint.
You never said "hey why can't I play this for free forever, I bought a box." Nobody did.
And now, just because they're giving away some bits for free, you're acting like you've been personally wronged because they won't give you EVERYTHING for free.
More games should do like Anarchy online..
Entire game content is free, Exspansion content costs regular subscription fee. .
LOVE IT
------
Playing MMO's since my first which was Ultima online, then Anarchy online. and so on..
Now a days im very critical before i ewen bother downloading a Free to play mmo.
I think it was acctualy a superb move from FC, without it AO would be dead by now... AO is moving towards micro-transaction world, there is some paid goodies which eases life a lot, but they are quite cheap and can be bought with points included in regular subcription.
That is old news, the newer stuff they are adding is services nane-changes, new accounts with previous bonuses and character transfers between accounts. And these aren't too cheap 10€/$ min per item... Which likely will also generate decent income. If the new engine can get more people and get new boost of people trying game like it had when it went F2P for basic game, it might be somewhat decent competitor. Don't know how their advertising-scheme is going...
I want more "AAA" level MMO's to use the B2P model. I would rather buy expansion content once or twice a year, and the occasional (once a year character slot or vanity item maybe) 'store' goody, than pay a sub fee.
F2p+cash shop isn't horrible, but I rarely if ever buy cash shop items except casually, and will not do so to keep myself competitive with other players.
I understand in a general sense the 'why' of the sub fee model, but it does not fit into my budget now. Cash shop purchases don't either. Buying an expansion content box once, maybe twice a year does, because my wife, daughter, or me can save up and then I can have them as Yule or birthday gifts.
I also want to see companies come up with other revenue models. Companies need to make money is a given. They need to find models that I can afford, or they don't get my money. So far, the B2P model works best for me. So either use that model, or come up with some new model.
All hail Guild Wars! All hail Arena Net!
Idk I like EQ2 F2P
Playing: Ever quest 2
Played: MS,GW,EVE,LOTRO,WoW,Allods,Aion, CO,CoH,CoV,TQ Digital games, Darkfall,AoC,RS2.
Liked: Dungeon fight online, GW, Darkfall and, Runescape.
Waiting for: Link Realms(can't get my damn beta invite) KOTOR and, GW2
*Like*
Playing: Ever quest 2
Played: MS,GW,EVE,LOTRO,WoW,Allods,Aion, CO,CoH,CoV,TQ Digital games, Darkfall,AoC,RS2.
Liked: Dungeon fight online, GW, Darkfall and, Runescape.
Waiting for: Link Realms(can't get my damn beta invite) KOTOR and, GW2