Imho the burglar has two calls to fame in a group:
1. FM on demand.
2. Extremely potent debuffs over gambles that stack with his tricks.
Sadly FM got pretty much devalued and are underused, while gambles are imho underrated(but sadly also a bit unnecessary). A debuffing gamble upgraded to tier 6 with Gamblers strike can turn many critical situations around, +20% miss chance, +40% attack speed, -30% damage in addition to whatever trick is active on your target is nothing short of amazing. Read this guide if that interests you.
About Champions, yeah nobody wants a bad champion running around breaking mezzes, but then again people don't want a bad guard or minstrel either. A good champion employing all his skills like clobber, rising and ebbing ire and yes raging blade makes a run go much smoother. A good champion not just makes sure the tank has aggro and the baddy isn't doing bad inductions, he also makes sure that he is number 2 in aggro at all times, not the minstrel. And if something bad happens and the tank looses aggro on one or two mobs they will just turn around to the champ, who pops his defensive skills, instead of running to the minstrel/hunter and the tank having to chase them.
Imho the champ breaking mezzes is rarely the champs fault. It's either the mezzers job to mezz mobs before they get into the thick of things, which obviously isn't always possible, in which it becomes the tanks job to move the mobs away so AoE attacks can be used again. Quite frankly, often the extra duration a fight would last due to not being able to use AoE is more dangerous than a single mob more on the tank. Especially if the mezzed mob is in close range to the other mobs which not only stops the champ, hunter and LM from using their AoE damage skills, but also means the LM can't use his AoE debuffs and the guard not his AoE taunt effects. Simply put, 5 debuffed mobs on the tank is easier to tank than 4 undebuffed and 1 mezzed.
All in all its just a very bad situation that should be avoided at all times, champ or not.
Warden is by far the most fun and most rewarding to play if it 'clicks' with you. I love mine (3 of them now), just cann't get enough of them. But I do mean that litterally, that it has to 'click' with you as a player before you will enjoy them. I have a couple friends who have tried them and the rythm just isn't there for them, and they know it. They can do good things on thier wardens dont get me wrong, but even they know they aren't great at it, and they also know they dont enjoy them as much as thier guardian or LM. For solo or group I'd rate a warden as a 9/9 if its your class and your team knows how to work with a warden up front. And yes it takes the team to know how they work for them to work in a team environment. They can't be jumping the gun at every encounter, they have to wait the extra second above what they would with a guardian at the point. Its a different rythm in the team when a warden is up front. A good team that knows how a warden works can make the warden shine, just like a team that doesn't understand them can make the warden look like trash regardless of the player behind the keys.
This is what warden exactly is. However, its not that much played class, and therefore people might have some problems in getting a warden to tank. Thats only because they havent learned to trust 'em. Maybe youve had a bad experience with a warden in your group, and therefore you think that every warden plays like that.
I play warden as my main, and even tho' I never really enjoyed tanking, gambits make even tanking fun. Its funny, Ive had a year break from the game, and I still remember the most needed gambits.
All of them were pretty fun, solo burgs do seem to need improvment, buf for the most part I think they are the most vaulable in fellowships because they can initiate fellowship manuveres when needed.
Nice topic but it begs another question. By end game, what are we talking about based on responses we are not all talking about the same thing. Obviously, we are talking about being level caped. Now are we talking about looking for pick up groups to do quest stuff in? Looking to farm stuff in a kin or again in pickups? Looking to do high-end game content?
For me it is all the above unfortunately the answers are not the same for all three. In my experience its always been more about the player then the toon. A bad minstrel will they have little demand out side of pick up groups but even that will dry up. Therefore, we have to assume we are talking about competent players.
As such, In my experiences…
Burgers are not as desirable as most end content bosses are immune to conjunctions hurting there utility a lot. If you need there conjunctions while clearing to bosses your in trouble when it comes to fighting said boss, nice to have but not needed. Have done far more Lt hard mode kills with out a burg then as with them.
Capts I always joke are not great but they make those around them great. Although they are listed as a pet class at end game if your cpt is using one find a more useful cpt unless you are really are trying to use them as a dps class. IMHO that is like using burgs as a healing class but it has been done. Have never done a Lt hard mode with out one but having two is a little harder
Lore Master CC is hardly pointless since Moria and end game raiding is I would dare say imposable with out atleast one LM if not two. Highly valuable in end game raiding we have called off raids and not scheduled them because we do not have LM’s that can go, we have made do with any other class missing.
Wardens are by no means less desirable then guards. For High-end raiding like say Lt hard mode in some ways, they are better.
In case any one is wondering the only class I have not played is Rune Keeper. I have level caped Burglar, Capt, Lore Master, and Warden with Lt hard mode kills on Both Cpt and LM.
Comments
Imho the burglar has two calls to fame in a group:
1. FM on demand.
2. Extremely potent debuffs over gambles that stack with his tricks.
Sadly FM got pretty much devalued and are underused, while gambles are imho underrated(but sadly also a bit unnecessary). A debuffing gamble upgraded to tier 6 with Gamblers strike can turn many critical situations around, +20% miss chance, +40% attack speed, -30% damage in addition to whatever trick is active on your target is nothing short of amazing. Read this guide if that interests you.
About Champions, yeah nobody wants a bad champion running around breaking mezzes, but then again people don't want a bad guard or minstrel either. A good champion employing all his skills like clobber, rising and ebbing ire and yes raging blade makes a run go much smoother. A good champion not just makes sure the tank has aggro and the baddy isn't doing bad inductions, he also makes sure that he is number 2 in aggro at all times, not the minstrel. And if something bad happens and the tank looses aggro on one or two mobs they will just turn around to the champ, who pops his defensive skills, instead of running to the minstrel/hunter and the tank having to chase them.
Imho the champ breaking mezzes is rarely the champs fault. It's either the mezzers job to mezz mobs before they get into the thick of things, which obviously isn't always possible, in which it becomes the tanks job to move the mobs away so AoE attacks can be used again. Quite frankly, often the extra duration a fight would last due to not being able to use AoE is more dangerous than a single mob more on the tank. Especially if the mezzed mob is in close range to the other mobs which not only stops the champ, hunter and LM from using their AoE damage skills, but also means the LM can't use his AoE debuffs and the guard not his AoE taunt effects. Simply put, 5 debuffed mobs on the tank is easier to tank than 4 undebuffed and 1 mezzed.
All in all its just a very bad situation that should be avoided at all times, champ or not.
This is what warden exactly is. However, its not that much played class, and therefore people might have some problems in getting a warden to tank. Thats only because they havent learned to trust 'em. Maybe youve had a bad experience with a warden in your group, and therefore you think that every warden plays like that.
I play warden as my main, and even tho' I never really enjoyed tanking, gambits make even tanking fun. Its funny, Ive had a year break from the game, and I still remember the most needed gambits.
Lovely.
All of them were pretty fun, solo burgs do seem to need improvment, buf for the most part I think they are the most vaulable in fellowships because they can initiate fellowship manuveres when needed.
Nice topic but it begs another question. By end game, what are we talking about based on responses we are not all talking about the same thing. Obviously, we are talking about being level caped. Now are we talking about looking for pick up groups to do quest stuff in? Looking to farm stuff in a kin or again in pickups? Looking to do high-end game content?
For me it is all the above unfortunately the answers are not the same for all three. In my experience its always been more about the player then the toon. A bad minstrel will they have little demand out side of pick up groups but even that will dry up. Therefore, we have to assume we are talking about competent players.
As such, In my experiences…
Burgers are not as desirable as most end content bosses are immune to conjunctions hurting there utility a lot. If you need there conjunctions while clearing to bosses your in trouble when it comes to fighting said boss, nice to have but not needed. Have done far more Lt hard mode kills with out a burg then as with them.
Capts I always joke are not great but they make those around them great. Although they are listed as a pet class at end game if your cpt is using one find a more useful cpt unless you are really are trying to use them as a dps class. IMHO that is like using burgs as a healing class but it has been done. Have never done a Lt hard mode with out one but having two is a little harder
Lore Master CC is hardly pointless since Moria and end game raiding is I would dare say imposable with out atleast one LM if not two. Highly valuable in end game raiding we have called off raids and not scheduled them because we do not have LM’s that can go, we have made do with any other class missing.
Wardens are by no means less desirable then guards. For High-end raiding like say Lt hard mode in some ways, they are better.
In case any one is wondering the only class I have not played is Rune Keeper. I have level caped Burglar, Capt, Lore Master, and Warden with Lt hard mode kills on Both Cpt and LM.