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So what's going to be "the" build?
mrcalhou
Member UncommonPosts: 1,444
In FFXI the playerbase made it so that you had a particular sub-job with your main-job. In theory you could be any combination you wanted, but in practice you'd likely not get invited to parties if you were trying to be different.
My question is, based on the way the leveling and skill systems are set-up, what are going to be "the" builds? That is, what skills are going to be required to get into a party?
Do you think that the skill system will be balanced enough that there will be many viable options? Do you think that over time the game will settle into everyone basically being clones of each other?
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"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Comments
FF XIV throws the Main/Sub Class-Mechanic of FF XI out of the window. Secondly there are no skilltrees, everyone learns the same skills. Bottom Line: There are no differences and no "builds" to speak of, so yes it's "Attack of the Clones".
Its people like you who cant think for themselfs that ruin games with these "uber" builds......stop the wow mentality and just play for fun once in your life......djeess.
If the game requires you to have a certain "build"......then it just sucks big time.
reason i quit wow.....the gearscore
I believe what gets you into a party will be dependent on what you have learned through your class skills. Stat distribution will not be a significant problem since you can redistribute at convenient times and adjust yourself to say, a caster when switched from melee class. It depends on what you know and how you use it. Parties shouldn't be too discriminate other than that, as well as your attitude. If you want to party, join a linkshell for best results. In this game, it will be based more along the lines of what you have access to rather than your levels. You can be the strongest guy in the game, but if you don't have access to certain areas that the party wants to go to, they won't waste time with you. That's what separated the herd of max level characters in FFXI, and that may apply for FFXIV as well. So if you want the best results, do all the quests you can and learn all the skills you can. You can adapt to just about anything if you have the right skills and gear for the job.
What does Gearscore have to do with skilltrees?
But regardless of that: Most of the gearscore complaints come fromn people who are too lazy to gear up and rather leech exp and items with gimp-builds and crappy gear than actually try to contribute something to the success of the team.
Those people are hated in every MMO and that won't change in FF XIV. And, btw, FF XI was way more strict when it comes to gearing than wow will ever be. If you didn't have the excact gear-sets required for a given level-range (which where neary impossible to get without grinding 24/7) you didn't get anywhere and i don't mean endgame-raids, i'm talking about basic leveling.
In comparison to most other MMOs, WoW is quite forgiving actually.
And because there are no builds and no freedom in characterdevelopment in FF XIV, the people will distinguish themselves with gear and gear alone, meaning without proper gear you won't get invited past lv. 20, regardless of your class.
Like gearscore, the amount of skills you have access to are to be the yardstick by which players are measured, and a determining factor as to whether you get invited to a group over someone else. And this is where the fatigue system won't help the casual players. A more proflic player (I am not a fan of the term 'hardcore') will have a greater selection of skills/abilites to choose from (due to being 'forced; to play other classes) to create a more efficient or well rounded character and will be more desirable to have in a group over someone who has limited time to play (casual) and has more or less focued on one class due to play time restrictions.
There are no requirements really. Everyone loves for whoever tanks to have the Pugilists second wind and Marauders bloodbath at rank 6 each, but aside from that anyone can contribute. In FFXI subjob directly supplemented stats which made it important to have the right one. In XIV you are just pulling from an array of skills, and while some might suit a role better than others you really have a lot of freedom.
Nice derailing with gearscore... and I guess a game that lets you have freedom and the ability to level every class to end game and switch at ease makes the game attack of the clones because everyone can master every class in the game even if it takes them years to get there. What a silly argument. I feel an agenda fueled by hate/negativity is coming from somewhere in the room.
Just like EvE where everyone can learn everything....o wait....
well if you really can't see differences between EVE and FF XIV, i can't really see how i can help you there.
In both you can get all skills. Yet there is plenty of diversity in EvE. Given there are more roles in EvE then there will be in FF XIV I am still pretty sure that there will be plenty of diversity. Unless you can get all classes fully within just a few hours of gamesplay.
I'm going to guess if you are tanking you are going to need to have all melee careers maxed.
I'm guessing if you are healing, you'll need the magic careers maxed.
DPS is probably where you will get away with single classing, although only by a narrow margin.
Not only do you get class skills, but ...gah attributes?traits? Gah, can't think of the word. Anyways slotted buffs.
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I'm guessing end game people will have multiple if not complete maxed ranks in careers. Not a bad thing,but the casuals the game supposedly caters to will be left behind.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
You don't need to have them all maxed. You have a number points that are used to slot in abilities so it makes sense to target certain abilities, but definitely not all. I think some of the stronger builds will have 80% main class skills and 20% or less sub class skills since they are weakened when used as a sub class ability.
Having not played to end-game(obviously), I can't see how multi-classing will be a requirement for conjurer or thaumatarge. Maybe for tanks to have more taunts and defensive skills, but I have not played melee that high to know.
Reading the skill list, I was excited about attempting to recreate a "Red Mage" type mixture class, but the way SE has implemented skills being slightly less powerful and having longer cooldowns, makes mixing classes less optimal in most cases.
I don't have a ton of experience multi-classing, but so far this is what I have experienced.
Lottery winners beware...I'm coming for you!
My guess? Roles will be the usual MMO trinity(healer/dps/tank), each role will have a staple ability that no group would invite you without(e.g. Phalanx when tanking).
How many abilities will be considered a must for each role? If the game decides that tanking is impossible without Phalanx, Cure, Second Wind, Taunt, etc., there would be no AP left and each tank will be the same.. just a clone.
However, if tanking can be done without using up all AP, there would be room left for creativity to play around with different DPS or heal abilities, or you could adjust your build to suit different gear or group composition. Better variety.
Of course there will still be the usual FOTM. But those are fixed with patches(hopefully).
That's not taking into account everyone maxing every job and gaining every abilitie. Maybe a similar issue would happen in end game, but then gear will decide your build. If everyone also gets the same gear, then the game is too easy and everything I said goes out the window.
Perhaps i missed something important about FF XIVs system, in which case my argumentation would be void, so i'll better ask this before i go any further: Is it possible in FF XIV to use abillities from different classes at the same time? I mean, if i leveled Gladiator and Archer, can i use Archer-Skills while i'm in Gladiator-Mode and vice versa? If that's the case, there would indeed be plenty of room for customisation, if not (and that was my impression) it's on of the most shallow systems on the markezt and couldn't even hold a candle to WoW, lelt alone EVE.
Yes, you can and do use abilities from every class at the same time. I have one right now I run in Conjurer main with pugalist attacks, marauder attcks, thurm spells, gladiator defenses. The cool part is how things work when you ruse them on other classes. The pugalist accuracy debuff is melee range IF your on a melee class main, same with the marauder Trunksplitter, but put them on a caster main and they become ranged attacks. My marauder has his stoneshield and shockshield spells usable while in marauder main, as well as Second wind from the puaglist and Bloodbath for healing. I actually have 3 build macros for each main class now. One for single target solo, one for AoE solo, and one for team play. Each one has a different skill setup.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Yes you can use many abilities from other classes.
A gladiator trying to cast spells however has a longer cooldown/lesser effect/higher chance of being resisted than a caster doing it however.
This is indeed great news to me.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You can also purchase (guild tokens?) traits that influence affinity towards a skillset. Meaning, I could buff up my affinity with conjurer skills to reduce penalties like cooldown or accuracy when I am playing as a Gladiator.
For example: http://ffxiv.yg.com/skill/one-with-nature?id=29480
I'm going to bet the community of FFXIV won't be in their teens so half the problems you're all describing won't even materialize.
If we assume teens are the most elitist about being geared/skilled/capped, and that college students and mom and dad and a fairly large gay community (the FFXI community) are less elitist, than the way to judge whether to invite someone will probably be from past experience with that person, does that person have a good attitude, and are our goals aligned?
Gear doesn't factor into it really because randomly /checking someone is considered very rude...
Plus Gearscore won't ever exist in a FF game so that form of elitism will be gone. DPS meters won't exist so that form of elitism will be gone. Healmeters gone. Achievements double gone. Pets/mounts that prove what you've done gone gone.
What we do know: Attitude, friendliness, past experience, quick learner? uses the right ability at the right time?
"The" build will be whatever you think benefits your main the most. It'll take a few years for the guides and forums to agree on and develop "The" Build, at which point you will probably already be wearing something very close to "The" Build because you've been following the most logical build you could think of. (Not that Crazy Builds aren't fun).
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
Actually there are parsers that exist for XI and yes there are people who use them, to make sur everyone's DPS is "up to snuff" and that they're getting their 20k xp per hour...
I've already seen mention of a windower being available for XIV (-sigh-) so certainly there are going to be add-ons for that as well, to serve the same purpose.
As long as there are players who insist on playing a game like an interactive spread-sheet where the goal is to squeeze every last DPS out of the game as possible, such things will exist. As long as they don't impose their "standards" on me, that's their business.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You can mix and match all abilities from all classes unless they are exclusive to a class (very little are).
I for one use the Archer ability Shadowbind on my Conjurer/Thaumaturge. It's always fun to bind a mob and then start casting a huge effing nuke without getting interrupted.
Gladiator can use Cure, Absorb VIT/STR/DEX or cast a fireball if he want's. Of cause all within the limit of reduced casting times or less damage since he is not really a mage (unless you respec and put some points into Mind and Intelligence).
The combinations are endless.
Eventully the player base will develop one.
This was the idea that I was trying to get at in my OP. I've played Eve and loved how the skill system worked. Yes everyone could learn everything given enough time, however once you got in your ship your role was defined. In Darkfall, on the other hand there were very few restrictions in place at the time I played. You just had to be able to quickly switch out weapons and then you could go from being a tank, to a mage, to an archer with only the cooldown on switching weapons/skill bars being the limited factor. This promoted everyone leveling up "the" skills. The skills *everyone* should have.
I know XIV is placing a point limit on the different skills you can take, but last I heard it didn't seem like it really would be much of a hindrance at the later levels and if it's, then that would promote everyone taking the same skills.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
It's really too early ot say what "The" build is going to be. However, I'll point out that certain unique class abilities only really have adequate potency when you're playing that class, so I suspect all classes will be viable.
On paper, what's supposed to happen is this:
Joe Casual plays for 8 hours a week for 5 weeks. He has physical level 20 and rank 20 Gladiator.
Joe Hardcore plays for 40 hours a week for 5 weeks. He has physical level 40, rank 20 Gladiator, Rank 25 Pugilist, Rank 15 Conjuror, Rank 20 Thaumatage, Rank 5 Lancer, and Rank 17 Marauder.
A level 20 group need a level 20 tank.
Both Joe Casual and Joe Hardcore are considered viable candidates by the group.
FFXIV is betting that their system will allow Joe Casual and Joe Hardcore to coexist just fine. However, is that true?
It's clear that, though they both can perform the role of a Rank 20 Gladiator equally well, Joe Hardcore is the better man for the job because he's got higher stats (Physical level 40 instead of Physical Level 20) and because he's got the flexibility of additional subclass abilities he can bring in.
Will the players snub Joe Casual's rank 20 Gladiator just because he doesn't have all those extra powers and stats that Joe Hardcore does?