Sounds pretty good though, and dungeon difficulty has seemed to have been ramped up a lot, much harder than any thing in the burning crusade. WOTLK dungeons were very easy. I am really liking the sound of cataclysm more and more and the more information coming out about these new mmorpgs sound more paper cutter and more of the same .
I have to agree with "more of the same." I'd intended to resub and roll a 1-60 through whatever world changes they release (without buying the expansion) and that may still happen, but tbh I don't miss anything about that game. Previous MMOs I've played I do see through rose-colored glasses on a lot of things (particularly EQ1) but with WoW the majority of the things that come to mind are just irritating.
They do a number of things well (particularly the polish), and it's certainly a great MMO for a player new to the genre. I've seen enough good things from other games that WoW doesn't have to make me want more- or just a different game.
WoW is a big disapointment and prime example showing what to much success leads to.
It is not a bad game, in fact it was quite a good game at its time, after the initial bugs were ironed out and all got stable.
The big disapointment lies therein that the outstanding financial success the game had not has led to a better game, to deeper gameplay, to more options of gameplay like housing, detailed and ambitious crafting, worldbulding areas but only to kind of a force not to do anything that could maybe hurt this outstanding financial success in the eyes of the decisionmakers.
All they do with all their money is not to advance the game, the genre but only to clamp their claws into their playerbase and squeeze out the money with the same trick over and over again.
That is why WoW is the very biggest disapointment in the history of mmorpgs up to today and why big success does not translate into better gameplay but into a freeze of innovation bcs of the angst to lose somewhat!
Therefore i wish with all my heart and my soul there will be a new game released that has advanced gameplay and success so the force is uppon Blizzard to advance or sink!!!
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
that sums up exactly why wow could never be dethroned and why there next MMO will be the next big thing, they have the resoruces and the huge pockets to pull it off, everyone else tries with the budget and time that they have but unfortunately pretty much fail not through want of trying or lack of skill mind, this is why i really cant wait to see what Blizz is cooking up, with the immense budget that they are probably throwing at this new i.p. plus the sheer skillset that they can mine from couple with 5+ years of experience as the no.1 mmo dev, you just know that right out of the door this game will rock and unfortuately no company can possibly compete with that..
Well, that isn't exactly true, is it? Wow can still be dethroned, it has just never really gotten a big challenge.
There are several other factors too.
For one thing is Wow aging and computer games doesn't age well even if MMO last longer than others. 6 years is a long time already and the game isn't getting any younger.
And there is a a generation of players coming, they wont play the same thing the old generation did. Or listen to the same music...
The truth is that nothing lasts forever and anyone believing so is delusional.
Some game will pass Wow sooner or later, anything else is impossible. But I have my doubts about FF XIV in this case, the game that will pass Wow needs to be better. And that is possible.
If Blizzard or someone else makes the next big one is however anybodies guess. Past successes does not prove anything and many of the talented people who worked at Blizz work at other companies now. On the other hand have they still Kaplan and it is a mistake to count him out. The future will be interesting no matter what.
WoW got a lot I dislike. The community, PvP, fast / instant travel, constant grinding, the hype about blizzard and more.
Yet, I play it. Why? It's very polished, got many races and classes (and, very important: many starting zones). It runs even on bad computers nicely, you find groups easily, got tons of events and still a very healthy population.
Not many current games can compete with that. And Rift, Tera, GW2 and all those... they are available yet. I don't care what companies promise about them, I can't play those games, so they ain't an alternative.
I have to agree with "more of the same." I'd intended to resub and roll a 1-60 through whatever world changes they release (without buying the expansion) and that may still happen, but tbh I don't miss anything about that game. Previous MMOs I've played I do see through rose-colored glasses on a lot of things (particularly EQ1) but with WoW the majority of the things that come to mind are just irritating.
They do a number of things well (particularly the polish), and it's certainly a great MMO for a player new to the genre. I've seen enough good things from other games that WoW doesn't have to make me want more- or just a different game.
Thats one of the problems with WoW in my eyes; nothing really changes that much to keep me interested.
Expansions in other games at least last a while as far as content is concerened, but so far both expansions for WoW have been over pretty quickly (TBC was kinda long, but WOTLK took me a total of about 6 days playing at a very casual pace to hit cap and run most of Naxx 10).
To me the expansions they put out for the game just don't feel like they are worth the cost. If I am going to pay $40 to $50 for an expansion pack I expect it to at least give me a months worth of content, not a weeks worth and then months of grinding the same instance over and over till another instance comes out.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
that sums up exactly why wow could never be dethroned and why there next MMO will be the next big thing, they have the resoruces and the huge pockets to pull it off, everyone else tries with the budget and time that they have but unfortunately pretty much fail not through want of trying or lack of skill mind, this is why i really cant wait to see what Blizz is cooking up, with the immense budget that they are probably throwing at this new i.p. plus the sheer skillset that they can mine from couple with 5+ years of experience as the no.1 mmo dev, you just know that right out of the door this game will rock and unfortuately no company can possibly compete with that..
Doubt that another Blizzard MMO will rock the boat before another mmo does, atm there isnt much to copy paste from what isnt already in WoW.
WoW is a big disapointment and prime example showing what to much success leads to.
It is not a bad game, in fact it was quite a good game at its time, after the initial bugs were ironed out and all got stable.
The big disapointment lies therein that the outstanding financial success the game had not has led to a better game, to deeper gameplay, to more options of gameplay like housing, detailed and ambitious crafting, worldbulding areas but only to kind of a force not to do anything that could maybe hurt this outstanding financial success in the eyes of the decisionmakers.
All they do with all their money is not to advance the game, the genre but only to clamp their claws into their playerbase and squeeze out the money with the same trick over and over again.
That is why WoW is the very biggest disapointment in the history of mmorpgs up to today and why big success does not translate into better gameplay but into a freeze of innovation bcs of the angst to lose somewhat!
Therefore i wish with all my heart and my soul there will be a new game released that has advanced gameplay and success so the force is uppon Blizzard to advance or sink!!!
that's not exactly going to happen.
WoW isn't a success because of "deep" game play. WoW is a success because of numerous other factors. One can grasp wow quickly, there is a lot to do, a lot of polish, one can just log in and have a bit of fun and of course there is the whole e-sport nature of some of its offerings.
The "deeper" the game play the more any game is going to appeal to fewer players.
Heck, I think of chess and Go.
Both deep games. But avid players? They might be games that have lasted because they are brilliant games but most people who play board games probably play party games like Trivial pursuit or some such thing.
Most people say they tried chess but can't remember the moves.
The things that surpass "block buster hits" aren't going to be deep and thoughtufl.
It's like saying thaht you hope some deep well written movie surpasses a current block buster movie. Better written and constructed movies are always made. But there aren't many that can even achieve the financial success or appeal of any movie made to be a blockbuster.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
WoW is a big disapointment and prime example showing what to much success leads to.
It is not a bad game, in fact it was quite a good game at its time, after the initial bugs were ironed out and all got stable.
The big disapointment lies therein that the outstanding financial success the game had not has led to a better game, to deeper gameplay, to more options of gameplay like housing, detailed and ambitious crafting, worldbulding areas but only to kind of a force not to do anything that could maybe hurt this outstanding financial success in the eyes of the decisionmakers.
All they do with all their money is not to advance the game, the genre but only to clamp their claws into their playerbase and squeeze out the money with the same trick over and over again.
That is why WoW is the very biggest disapointment in the history of mmorpgs up to today and why big success does not translate into better gameplay but into a freeze of innovation bcs of the angst to lose somewhat!
Therefore i wish with all my heart and my soul there will be a new game released that has advanced gameplay and success so the force is uppon Blizzard to advance or sink!!!
that's not exactly going to happen.
WoW isn't a success because of "deep" game play. WoW is a success because of numerous other factors. One can grasp wow quickly, there is a lot to do, a lot of polish, one can just log in and have a bit of fun and of course there is the whole e-sport nature of some of its offerings.
The "deeper" the game play the more any game is going to appeal to fewer players.
Heck, I think of chess and Go.
Both deep games. But avid players? They might be games that have lasted because they are brilliant games but most people who play board games probably play party games like Trivial pursuit or some such thing.
Most people say they tried chess but can't remember the moves.
The things that surpass "block buster hits" aren't going to be deep and thoughtufl.
It's like saying thaht you hope some deep well written movie surpasses a current block buster movie. Better written and constructed movies are always made. But there aren't many that can even achieve the financial success or appeal of any movie made to be a blockbuster.
Well said Sovrath. It is exceedingly rare that the masses will get behind something that requires deeper involvement, learn to optimize skills, learn complex skill sets, or suffer set backs and try something different to succeed. Again, that is the masses, not everyone who plays.
WoW is a game made for the masses. As some of the Blizzard developers hint at in their talks, success to them (and most corporations) is in satisfying the masses (and, therefore, making a lot of money off of the product). If you are interested in depth, don't look to Blizzard for any of their games. If you are interested in having a bit of fun without having to think much, Blizzard is your company.
I remember reading interesting things about consumers in general throughout the world. When asked (surveyed) if they would pay more for quality, the overwhelming majority of consumers say that they would pay more for a better quality product. However, in the market place, the consumer actually acts in the opposite manner; i.e. the majority invariably buys the cheaper product despite the shortcomings. The MMO market is in a similar position. Everybody clamors for more depth, deeper experiences, more complexity, and better challenges. But, in the end, the majority will run over to the more simplistic MMOs because of the shininess (or "squirrel" if you've watched Up)...thus WoW will always have a place in the heart of the masses.
Expansions in other games at least last a while as far as content is concerened, but so far both expansions for WoW have been over pretty quickly (TBC was kinda long, but WOTLK took me a total of about 6 days playing at a very casual pace to hit cap and run most of Naxx 10).
You know you exaggerate, I know you exaggerate, so why doing it? You can't tell me that a casual player beeing new to WOTLK would level a character from 70 to 80 and doing most of a large raid instance within one week. Casual players take several weeks doing that, and even then they'd have only scratched the wotlk content, having skipped most of the quests.
To me the expansions they put out for the game just don't feel like they are worth the cost. If I am going to pay $40 to $50 for an expansion pack I expect it to at least give me a months worth of content, not a weeks worth and then months of grinding the same instance over and over till another instance comes out.
It all depends how you play. If you play WoW 10 hours a day, never reading any text longer than two words, following guides from the net where to grind or do what to get most XP, then of course you can quickly reach max level. You haven't seen most of the game yet, but you are at max level. And that works for about all games. Rushing that way is like buying a book, reading the first page, the last page, the backside of the book, and then saying "I didn't get enough for my money". Or it's like going to an expensive restaurant, saying "give me a sample of your 5 best wines", and then you mix them together in a mug and slurp it down in one gulp, saying "doesn't taste that great".
I stopped playing WoW every now and then for a year myself, but I never had the feeling that there wasn't enough content in the game, or that the expansions don't deliver that much. But as said, that depends on the playstyle.
I understand that WoW polarizes people. Heck, I don't think it's that great either. But most MMORPGs out there simply do too many things wrong.
Not to mention that comments such as "support the developers" or "you talk about a game beeing out for half a decade" don't make any sense either. I want entertainment. I don't care how long a game has been available yet. I don't want to support. I just want entertainment. If I see bugs I'm annoyed. If I can play a very polished game or a buggy one, then I play the polished one. What the history of the game is is totally irrelevant for me, the product is what counts. I don't buy a pizza with toenails in it either, only because it was made by a guy with his feet because he has no arms. I want an edible pizza, no matter what the story behind it is. And I want a polished game as well, not excuses like "it has only been released for half a year" or "it's an indy company" or "we want to try something new". My money goes to those companies that can develope games that can entertain me for a longer time, and not to those companies which are best at making up excuses why their product sucks, or promises how awesome it will be in some years.
I could also write books about what I think WoW is doing wrong. But some arguments here are just plain silly. "casuals playing through wotlk including raids within a week"... You got to be kidding me.
I have to agree with "more of the same." I'd intended to resub and roll a 1-60 through whatever world changes they release (without buying the expansion) and that may still happen, but tbh I don't miss anything about that game. Previous MMOs I've played I do see through rose-colored glasses on a lot of things (particularly EQ1) but with WoW the majority of the things that come to mind are just irritating.
They do a number of things well (particularly the polish), and it's certainly a great MMO for a player new to the genre. I've seen enough good things from other games that WoW doesn't have to make me want more- or just a different game.
Thats one of the problems with WoW in my eyes; nothing really changes that much to keep me interested.
Expansions in other games at least last a while as far as content is concerened, but so far both expansions for WoW have been over pretty quickly (TBC was kinda long, but WOTLK took me a total of about 6 days playing at a very casual pace to hit cap and run most of Naxx 10).
To me the expansions they put out for the game just don't feel like they are worth the cost. If I am going to pay $40 to $50 for an expansion pack I expect it to at least give me a months worth of content, not a weeks worth and then months of grinding the same instance over and over till another instance comes out.
No, they don't.
Please name an expansion for another game that added more content than Cataclysm will.
Sorry.. but in IMO, Cat isn't as big as you want it to be.. remember that many of the changes coming are NOT part of the Cat expansion and are indeed global FREE changes.. IMO again, I think EQ1's expansion of Kunark, SoV and SoL were bigger and better then WoWs
Sounds pretty good though, and dungeon difficulty has seemed to have been ramped up a lot, much harder than any thing in the burning crusade. WOTLK dungeons were very easy. I am really liking the sound of cataclysm more and more and the more information coming out about these new mmorpgs sound more paper cutter and more of the same .
I'm glad you're hyped for the expansion but it doesn't do anything for me, if I would pick something on the horizon I'd say I'm more intrigued by DCUO or FF than Cataclysm but that's just me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Sorry.. but in IMO, Cat isn't as big as you want it to be.. remember that many of the changes coming are NOT part of the Cat expansion and are indeed global FREE changes.. IMO again, I think EQ1's expansion of Kunark, SoV and SoL were bigger and better then WoWs
Oh yeah, if you subtract every "free" change coming in Cataclysm (which is completely ridiculous), it's only an average sized expansion.
Once cataclysm ships, it will be the most expansive expansion ever.
By the way, "free" changes are a feature that people should give praise for, not attempt to form a weak argument against the pricing.
Many recent MMOs failed because they were rushed to market, had less content, or were not as polished as established games. It’s no secret that WoW has been a big success, and there is a reason for that success. While it may not be the most innovative product on the market, WoW offers a tremendous amount of content and is an exceptionally polished game. Everyone wants to duplicate that success, but I’m not sure that everyone is realistic about what that means. WoW was in development for five years, was built on an established and very popular game universe, and probably cost more than $40 million to create. Don’t believe that there is some magic design element that you will add to your MMO that will allow you to steal all of WoW’s subscription customers. If you find yourself saying, “It’s like WoW, but...,” you’re in trouble. To reiterate an earlier point – go do your own thing, and let them do theirs.
A quote from Arenanets founder Jeff Strain...
I really like this quote. Few examples from the AAA MMOs I tried over the last years:
- Age of Conan had great intentions and I felt like it was filling few gaps Blizzard did not cover, especially in PVP. However, it was released unfinished. I came back to this game few times and I enjoyed it; even though they did a lot of improvement, their UI is still not up to par, they are missing some good features to support the community (such as an accurate player search function), some mobs AI are still very strange, and they made few critical mistakes recently by allowing some players to cleverly use some mechanics to achieve in 2 days what you would normally grind in months.
- Warhammer Online had similar intention than Age of Conan, though more arcade-oriented with more player guidance to get through your journey. It was released unfinished, and has been underfunded since.
- Aion had an exceptional advantage of being out in Asia a year before its release to the Western market. As opposed to Age of Conan and Warhammer Online, it failed to keep its playerbase by offering a very narrow list of activities, by waiting too long before striking against bots/spam, and by letting gankers unchecked (discouraging new players). However, I made a comeback recently and I've been enjoying since. They need to improve their server balance mechanism A LOT: It's very difficult to join your friends that have been playing since release since their faction is likely to be restricted for new players on their server.
Now FFXIV seemed great, though it seems they neglected the PC version to focus on console players, and we'll see soon enough if it reprensents a critical mistake or not.
WoW has great ways to support its community in a game that has been stable since release. Sure there were few problems at first, but none of them were gamebreaking. It was a lot more grindy with tons of Fedex quests to make sure you'd waste most of your time walking across Azeroth, but it was easy to find some friends to keep you hooked up. Even today, players have been grinding the Icecrown citadel for almost a year twice, four times and for some 6 times a week. But they are having fun because their friends are still doing it...
Please name an expansion for another game that added more content than Cataclysm will.
GW: Factions, GW: Nightfall
I played guild wars a lot. And neither of those expansions come anywhere close to what this expansion is adding.
Here is Factions:
4 new distinct regions to explore
2 new professions—Assassin and Ritualist—providing 56 dual-class combinations
300 new skills to unlock and use
20 missions
Over 200 quests
Alliance battles—large-scale PvP battles that allow factions to redraw the borders of the Canthan empire
Here is Nightfall:
5 new distinct regions to explore
2 new professions—Dervish and Paragon—providing 56 dual-class combinations
Over 350 new skills to unlock and use
24 missions
Over 200 quests
Customizable Heroes who level up with you, follow your orders in combat, and use weapons and skills you choose
Hero vs. Hero Battles—the ultimate one-on-one PvP competition
It's not even in the same ballpark. Storyline missions that end faster than just the quest content alone that WoW is adding in Cataclysm.
I hate defending WoW because it makes me come off like a douche, but when it comes to commitment to expansions and content, especially in the case of Cataclysm, they are doing something that no other MMO has done.
Edit: oh yeah, and both those expansions were $50.
Oh yeah, if you subtract every "free" change coming in Cataclysm (which is completely ridiculous), it's only an average sized expansion.
Once cataclysm ships, it will be the most expansive expansion ever.
By the way, "free" changes are a feature that people should give praise for, not attempt to form a weak argument against the pricing.
I can't argue on how "large" an expansion it will be because I haven't been following (disinterest), but to comment that free changes should be applauded I agree, that's why I liked all the free content I got playing City of Heroes. That game gave free content. What kind of free changes have we seen from Blizz? Battlegrounds and a Ren faire dungeon? Continuous nerfing?
Another thing I find difficult to applaud when it comes to Acti-Blizz's free changes is how much of them are intended to be part of an expansion, and just don't make it to release?
It's not even in the same ballpark. Storyline missions that end faster than just the quest content alone that WoW is adding in Cataclysm.
I hate defending WoW because it makes me come off like a douche, but when it comes to commitment to expansions and content, especially in the case of Cataclysm, they are doing something that no other MMO has done.
Still, CATA can hardly be compared to new fully fledged MMORPG with bucketloads of content, new and different gameplay mechanics and a full world on its own, which of course was the message of the OP: that an expansion as CATA will trump MMO's as SW:TOR, GW2, Rift and TERA when it comes to size, quality, content and gameplay.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Oh yeah, if you subtract every "free" change coming in Cataclysm (which is completely ridiculous), it's only an average sized expansion.
Once cataclysm ships, it will be the most expansive expansion ever.
By the way, "free" changes are a feature that people should give praise for, not attempt to form a weak argument against the pricing.
I can't argue on how "large" an expansion it will be because I haven't been following (disinterest), but to comment that free changes should be applauded I agree, that's why I liked all the free content I got playing City of Heroes. That game gave free content. What kind of free changes have we seen from Blizz? Battlegrounds and a Ren faire dungeon? Continuous nerfing?
Another thing I find difficult to applaud when it comes to Acti-Blizz's free changes is how much of them are intended to be part of an expansion, and just don't make it to release?
Blizzard adds dungeons, additional raids, additional systems, battlegrounds, just a ton of stuff over the years when you look back. Ever every1.x, 2.x or 3.x patch was for free. I'll just show you what was free in the 3 series of wow:
3.1 - Argent Tournament Event, Dual Talent Specialization, Brewmaster Event, Ulduar (a raid zone), equipment manager, New mounts, new chat features.
3.2 - Argent Tournament Raid, Isle of Conquest (Battleground), New Loot system, New Druid Forms, Onyxia (rehash on old raid), Battleground XP
3.3 - Ruby Sanctum, Quest tracking, cross-realm dungeon finder, Icecrown citadel (raid), Random battleground system
This is their 3rd expansion in 6 years. If you compare that to other MMOs, they are actually milking the playerbase far less considering expansions. I mean, Guild Wars is he only AAA P2P title that I know of that has milked less money out of their playerbase through expansions/sub.
And when it comes to not making it into release, they might miss the mark with some things (a very, very small amount of things), but it always gets patched in at a later date. What they promise is delivered. Many, many MMOs can not make the same claim.
I'm not going to be playing this game, but good lord, if you don't understand that yes, they do have a massive developement company that is putting out quality content with an absolute massive amount of content, you are blind. And the price/content ratio is higher than any other AAA P2P MMO that I know of.
It's not even in the same ballpark. Storyline missions that end faster than just the quest content alone that WoW is adding in Cataclysm.
I hate defending WoW because it makes me come off like a douche, but when it comes to commitment to expansions and content, especially in the case of Cataclysm, they are doing something that no other MMO has done.
Still, CATA can hardly be compared to new fully fledged MMORPG with bucketloads of content, new and different gameplay mechanics and a full world on its own, which of course was the message of the OP: that an expansion as CATA will trump MMO's as SW:TOR, GW2, Rift and TERA when it comes to size, quality, content and gameplay.
Yeah, I basically agree with this. Brand new games tend to have a lot of content. The content tends to be of poor quality in the beginning, but there tends to be a lot of it. And besides, it's pretty subjective what quality is.
I am still unable to ignore the massitivity that is upon us. :P
Edit: And I was responding to someone else in the thread, not the OP at the time. I just think people need some perspective with this. It's easy to WoW-bash, but I think you need to give them credit for what they are attempting with this expansion.
The massivity of the expansion CATA or the massivity of all the upcoming MMORPG's in such a relatively short period of time?
Because all of it combined is a mass amount of potential awesomeness that we haven't seen for years and years in MMO gaming 2011 will be a good gaming year.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The massivity of the expansion CATA or the massivity of all the upcoming MMORPG's in such a relatively short period of time?
Because all of it combined is a mass amount of potential awesomeness that we haven't seen for years and years in MMO gaming 2011 will be a good gaming year.
Comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUVLclPDCBE
Calling this paper cutter will get you you 100 years of bad luck. Even trolls get bad luck.
This made me rofl hard. But then I'll agree with previous troll comments & keep the feeding to a minimum...so please have fun in cata & stay there
I have to agree with "more of the same." I'd intended to resub and roll a 1-60 through whatever world changes they release (without buying the expansion) and that may still happen, but tbh I don't miss anything about that game. Previous MMOs I've played I do see through rose-colored glasses on a lot of things (particularly EQ1) but with WoW the majority of the things that come to mind are just irritating.
They do a number of things well (particularly the polish), and it's certainly a great MMO for a player new to the genre. I've seen enough good things from other games that WoW doesn't have to make me want more- or just a different game.
WoW is a big disapointment and prime example showing what to much success leads to.
It is not a bad game, in fact it was quite a good game at its time, after the initial bugs were ironed out and all got stable.
The big disapointment lies therein that the outstanding financial success the game had not has led to a better game, to deeper gameplay, to more options of gameplay like housing, detailed and ambitious crafting, worldbulding areas but only to kind of a force not to do anything that could maybe hurt this outstanding financial success in the eyes of the decisionmakers.
All they do with all their money is not to advance the game, the genre but only to clamp their claws into their playerbase and squeeze out the money with the same trick over and over again.
That is why WoW is the very biggest disapointment in the history of mmorpgs up to today and why big success does not translate into better gameplay but into a freeze of innovation bcs of the angst to lose somewhat!
Therefore i wish with all my heart and my soul there will be a new game released that has advanced gameplay and success so the force is uppon Blizzard to advance or sink!!!
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Well, that isn't exactly true, is it? Wow can still be dethroned, it has just never really gotten a big challenge.
There are several other factors too.
For one thing is Wow aging and computer games doesn't age well even if MMO last longer than others. 6 years is a long time already and the game isn't getting any younger.
And there is a a generation of players coming, they wont play the same thing the old generation did. Or listen to the same music...
The truth is that nothing lasts forever and anyone believing so is delusional.
Some game will pass Wow sooner or later, anything else is impossible. But I have my doubts about FF XIV in this case, the game that will pass Wow needs to be better. And that is possible.
If Blizzard or someone else makes the next big one is however anybodies guess. Past successes does not prove anything and many of the talented people who worked at Blizz work at other companies now. On the other hand have they still Kaplan and it is a mistake to count him out. The future will be interesting no matter what.
WoW got a lot I dislike. The community, PvP, fast / instant travel, constant grinding, the hype about blizzard and more.
Yet, I play it. Why? It's very polished, got many races and classes (and, very important: many starting zones). It runs even on bad computers nicely, you find groups easily, got tons of events and still a very healthy population.
Not many current games can compete with that. And Rift, Tera, GW2 and all those... they are available yet. I don't care what companies promise about them, I can't play those games, so they ain't an alternative.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Thats one of the problems with WoW in my eyes; nothing really changes that much to keep me interested.
Expansions in other games at least last a while as far as content is concerened, but so far both expansions for WoW have been over pretty quickly (TBC was kinda long, but WOTLK took me a total of about 6 days playing at a very casual pace to hit cap and run most of Naxx 10).
To me the expansions they put out for the game just don't feel like they are worth the cost. If I am going to pay $40 to $50 for an expansion pack I expect it to at least give me a months worth of content, not a weeks worth and then months of grinding the same instance over and over till another instance comes out.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Doubt that another Blizzard MMO will rock the boat before another mmo does, atm there isnt much to copy paste from what isnt already in WoW.
that's not exactly going to happen.
WoW isn't a success because of "deep" game play. WoW is a success because of numerous other factors. One can grasp wow quickly, there is a lot to do, a lot of polish, one can just log in and have a bit of fun and of course there is the whole e-sport nature of some of its offerings.
The "deeper" the game play the more any game is going to appeal to fewer players.
Heck, I think of chess and Go.
Both deep games. But avid players? They might be games that have lasted because they are brilliant games but most people who play board games probably play party games like Trivial pursuit or some such thing.
Most people say they tried chess but can't remember the moves.
The things that surpass "block buster hits" aren't going to be deep and thoughtufl.
It's like saying thaht you hope some deep well written movie surpasses a current block buster movie. Better written and constructed movies are always made. But there aren't many that can even achieve the financial success or appeal of any movie made to be a blockbuster.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well said Sovrath. It is exceedingly rare that the masses will get behind something that requires deeper involvement, learn to optimize skills, learn complex skill sets, or suffer set backs and try something different to succeed. Again, that is the masses, not everyone who plays.
WoW is a game made for the masses. As some of the Blizzard developers hint at in their talks, success to them (and most corporations) is in satisfying the masses (and, therefore, making a lot of money off of the product). If you are interested in depth, don't look to Blizzard for any of their games. If you are interested in having a bit of fun without having to think much, Blizzard is your company.
I remember reading interesting things about consumers in general throughout the world. When asked (surveyed) if they would pay more for quality, the overwhelming majority of consumers say that they would pay more for a better quality product. However, in the market place, the consumer actually acts in the opposite manner; i.e. the majority invariably buys the cheaper product despite the shortcomings. The MMO market is in a similar position. Everybody clamors for more depth, deeper experiences, more complexity, and better challenges. But, in the end, the majority will run over to the more simplistic MMOs because of the shininess (or "squirrel" if you've watched Up)...thus WoW will always have a place in the heart of the masses.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
No, they don't.
Please name an expansion for another game that added more content than Cataclysm will.
Sorry.. but in IMO, Cat isn't as big as you want it to be.. remember that many of the changes coming are NOT part of the Cat expansion and are indeed global FREE changes.. IMO again, I think EQ1's expansion of Kunark, SoV and SoL were bigger and better then WoWs
I'm glad you're hyped for the expansion but it doesn't do anything for me, if I would pick something on the horizon I'd say I'm more intrigued by DCUO or FF than Cataclysm but that's just me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Oh yeah, if you subtract every "free" change coming in Cataclysm (which is completely ridiculous), it's only an average sized expansion.
Once cataclysm ships, it will be the most expansive expansion ever.
By the way, "free" changes are a feature that people should give praise for, not attempt to form a weak argument against the pricing.
GW: Factions, GW: Nightfall
I really like this quote. Few examples from the AAA MMOs I tried over the last years:
- Age of Conan had great intentions and I felt like it was filling few gaps Blizzard did not cover, especially in PVP. However, it was released unfinished. I came back to this game few times and I enjoyed it; even though they did a lot of improvement, their UI is still not up to par, they are missing some good features to support the community (such as an accurate player search function), some mobs AI are still very strange, and they made few critical mistakes recently by allowing some players to cleverly use some mechanics to achieve in 2 days what you would normally grind in months.
- Warhammer Online had similar intention than Age of Conan, though more arcade-oriented with more player guidance to get through your journey. It was released unfinished, and has been underfunded since.
- Aion had an exceptional advantage of being out in Asia a year before its release to the Western market. As opposed to Age of Conan and Warhammer Online, it failed to keep its playerbase by offering a very narrow list of activities, by waiting too long before striking against bots/spam, and by letting gankers unchecked (discouraging new players). However, I made a comeback recently and I've been enjoying since. They need to improve their server balance mechanism A LOT: It's very difficult to join your friends that have been playing since release since their faction is likely to be restricted for new players on their server.
Now FFXIV seemed great, though it seems they neglected the PC version to focus on console players, and we'll see soon enough if it reprensents a critical mistake or not.
WoW has great ways to support its community in a game that has been stable since release. Sure there were few problems at first, but none of them were gamebreaking. It was a lot more grindy with tons of Fedex quests to make sure you'd waste most of your time walking across Azeroth, but it was easy to find some friends to keep you hooked up. Even today, players have been grinding the Icecrown citadel for almost a year twice, four times and for some 6 times a week. But they are having fun because their friends are still doing it...
I played guild wars a lot. And neither of those expansions come anywhere close to what this expansion is adding.
Here is Factions:
4 new distinct regions to explore
2 new professions—Assassin and Ritualist—providing 56 dual-class combinations
300 new skills to unlock and use
20 missions
Over 200 quests
Alliance battles—large-scale PvP battles that allow factions to redraw the borders of the Canthan empire
Here is Nightfall:
5 new distinct regions to explore
2 new professions—Dervish and Paragon—providing 56 dual-class combinations
Over 350 new skills to unlock and use
24 missions
Over 200 quests
Customizable Heroes who level up with you, follow your orders in combat, and use weapons and skills you choose
Hero vs. Hero Battles—the ultimate one-on-one PvP competition
It's not even in the same ballpark. Storyline missions that end faster than just the quest content alone that WoW is adding in Cataclysm.
I hate defending WoW because it makes me come off like a douche, but when it comes to commitment to expansions and content, especially in the case of Cataclysm, they are doing something that no other MMO has done.
Edit: oh yeah, and both those expansions were $50.
I can't argue on how "large" an expansion it will be because I haven't been following (disinterest), but to comment that free changes should be applauded I agree, that's why I liked all the free content I got playing City of Heroes. That game gave free content. What kind of free changes have we seen from Blizz? Battlegrounds and a Ren faire dungeon? Continuous nerfing?
Another thing I find difficult to applaud when it comes to Acti-Blizz's free changes is how much of them are intended to be part of an expansion, and just don't make it to release?
Still, CATA can hardly be compared to new fully fledged MMORPG with bucketloads of content, new and different gameplay mechanics and a full world on its own, which of course was the message of the OP: that an expansion as CATA will trump MMO's as SW:TOR, GW2, Rift and TERA when it comes to size, quality, content and gameplay.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This is one expansion I cannot wait for. I think Cataclysm is going to rock and open the door to even bigger and better things for WoW's future.
Blizzard adds dungeons, additional raids, additional systems, battlegrounds, just a ton of stuff over the years when you look back. Ever every1.x, 2.x or 3.x patch was for free. I'll just show you what was free in the 3 series of wow:
3.1 - Argent Tournament Event, Dual Talent Specialization, Brewmaster Event, Ulduar (a raid zone), equipment manager, New mounts, new chat features.
3.2 - Argent Tournament Raid, Isle of Conquest (Battleground), New Loot system, New Druid Forms, Onyxia (rehash on old raid), Battleground XP
3.3 - Ruby Sanctum, Quest tracking, cross-realm dungeon finder, Icecrown citadel (raid), Random battleground system
This is their 3rd expansion in 6 years. If you compare that to other MMOs, they are actually milking the playerbase far less considering expansions. I mean, Guild Wars is he only AAA P2P title that I know of that has milked less money out of their playerbase through expansions/sub.
And when it comes to not making it into release, they might miss the mark with some things (a very, very small amount of things), but it always gets patched in at a later date. What they promise is delivered. Many, many MMOs can not make the same claim.
I'm not going to be playing this game, but good lord, if you don't understand that yes, they do have a massive developement company that is putting out quality content with an absolute massive amount of content, you are blind. And the price/content ratio is higher than any other AAA P2P MMO that I know of.
Yeah, I basically agree with this. Brand new games tend to have a lot of content. The content tends to be of poor quality in the beginning, but there tends to be a lot of it. And besides, it's pretty subjective what quality is.
I am still unable to ignore the massitivity that is upon us. :P
Edit: And I was responding to someone else in the thread, not the OP at the time. I just think people need some perspective with this. It's easy to WoW-bash, but I think you need to give them credit for what they are attempting with this expansion.
The massivity of the expansion CATA or the massivity of all the upcoming MMORPG's in such a relatively short period of time?
Because all of it combined is a mass amount of potential awesomeness that we haven't seen for years and years in MMO gaming
2011 will be a good gaming year.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Heh. It's gonna be a great year.