I just didn't like the pvp balancing. I always felt like order had too many things that could heal. I also felt like there was no way to get rid of the wizards with their aoe roots.
Mystic blind sided everyone ( yes screwed them ) by giving too much exp to Scenarios ( battle grounds ) and close to nothing to RvR or open world quest. EVERYONE WAS BITCHING about battle grounds getting all the exp but they did nothing about it. It's kind of like giving us WoW and only giving exp to battle grounds, they may be fun, but for most it's just something for people to do when they only have 20 min to play.
Where do you RvR fanatics come up with this crap. There is almost nothing factual about your "FACT". First of all, why in the world would you even b*tch about xp in WAR, it was ridiculously easy to gain. Scenarios had more xp but RvR is where you got the renown, which is a bigger focus of the game.
The real fact is that WAR's scenarios is one of the game's best features. As a PvP/RvR game, it was great to be able to queue up for a 15 min scenario and gain renown, xp & badges from it. It allowed for casual play and a number of the scenarios were a ton of fun.
RvR was kinda weak and is best explained by RvDoor. It was mostly boring. Aside from that, it sometimes took hours to get anything significant to happen. The concept of RvR in War was better than the actual play.
What I will agree with is that WAR is a well built game that had a ton of potential. However, the three key reasons where Mythic dropped the ball have long been explored and were mentioned early on, especially in beta:
1) Game engine was not coded for actual large scale RvR Battles. Just such epic fail when you advertise your game as mass pvp
2) 2 factions. Just plain dumb when these guys built DaOC. You need 3 factions
3) Class imbalance with CC and AOE. Bright Wizard is all that needs to be said.
Other reasons have been beat to death. The PvE was lacking, aside from PQs, which were an awesome concept. War is a PvP game and some of us actually like simplistic PvE but it was an issue for many. The crafting system was quirky and insufficient, along with the auction house & market. Endgame for both PvE and PvP were weak, city sieges just blew goats.
Class balance had nothing to do with WARs failure.
And with regards to the bright wizard give it a rest. Destruction had the same class with more utility.
I topped the boards on my Wiz and I seen them topped by just about every class in game.
And crowd control...THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH CROWD CONTROL. Mythic caved into the crying they heard from daoc, did a 180, gave tanks the most CC instead of soft casters and there was nothing to stop a tank from getting to you.
I remember having the CC argument before the game was released and I still stand by my opinion. Crowd Control mixes up fights. Without crowd control fights break down to there most basic elements. I hit you, you hit me...wow this is fun isnt it?
An mmo based around pvp with limited or without crowd control is like those old boxing fights where the two guys take each others punches.
You obviously are a recent player and were not around when this game launched. Bright Wizards ruled Warhammer for many months and CC was so rampant that people were quitting over it when changes did not come. By the time they did, it was a bit late, the game has already "failed" as too many players just threw in the towel.
As a sidenote, there is a reason why BW was so powerful, it was due to a certain couple of BW users from beta who received extremely favorable treatment when it came to feedback. The class had the most powerful AOE, especially in combination, with a AoE stun morale ability. You needed 2 classes on the Destruction side to replicate that combination of attacks.
Actually I played beta and release and I quit in an early enough time frame that everyone didnt quite exploit the Bright Wizard thing. I just didnt see that. But thats one Crowd Control ability geared with Overpowered dmg.
If the dmg wasnt completely nuts, would the CC still be the problem?
When I say CC, I mean CC spread across the board, for all classes. There wasnt enough counters. I hate to mention the pink elephant, but in WoW I think of the give and take between a mage and a warrior. The warrior reflects spells, and charges the mage who blinks and its not a straight up fight...which imo I saw too much of in WAR. (why the heck did I say too much... I didnt see ENOUGH counters, and ENOUGH give and take, and CC was part of that, sorry for the confusion....way to go me derpdurp)
Yes the crowd control was that big of a problem even when damage wasn't factored into the equation. Bright wizards/Sorcerors bomb groups were a whole different problem, including the overpowered group healing. Though I did love my warrior priest.
Anyhow, there was so much crowd control from so many classes. Healers had a fair amount, tanks had a lot, casters had some more and when everything was all said and done the same problem from DAOC repeated itself in Warhammer. Half of the fight you would spend stunned, mezzed, rooted, disarmed, thrown across the map or some other form of crowd control. The higher the tier you were in the worse it got. Melees had it really bad though.
That is why mythic spent a few patches trying to address it. Area effect damage was a monster all on its own.
Yes the crowd control was that big of a problem even when damage wasn't factored into the equation. Bright wizards/Sorcerors bomb groups were a whole different problem, including the overpowered group healing. Though I did love my warrior priest.
Anyhow, there was so much crowd control from so many classes. Healers had a fair amount, tanks had a lot, casters had some more and when everything was all said and done the same problem from DAOC repeated itself in Warhammer. Half of the fight you would spend stunned, mezzed, rooted, disarmed, thrown across the map or some other form of crowd control. The higher the tier you were in the worse it got. Melees had it really bad though.
That is why mythic spent a few patches trying to address it. Area effect damage was a monster all on its own.
If you had a chance to play a shadow warrior, you have to admit, there was nothign more exhilirating than booting some big tanks ass straight off a cliff. 3 secs of silence while I enjoy some good memories.....
Ok Im good now, on a side note, anyone play a Shammy in WoW after WAR was released? tsk tsk Blizz. Have an original idea for once.
Half of the fight you would spend stunned, mezzed, rooted, disarmed, thrown across the map or some other form of crowd control.
If you had a chance to play a shadow warrior, you have to admit, there was nothign more exhilirating than booting some big tanks ass straight off a cliff. 3 secs of silence while I enjoy some good memories.....
Yeah I remember on my marauder. i would go up to the battle about to head to somebody..anddddd STUNNED ! ROOT! DISARMED! DEATH BY BRIGHT WIZARD'S RAIN OF FIRE!!!!"
That was 80% of my experience in Scenarios in my first few months. Then i had a pocket magus :P
Lol @ Shadow Warrior part, I loved doing that on my Squid Herd.
When I played at release on PT, the server was mobbed so badly they cloned it to make room.
I wanted to expierence the lore and the PQs. Sure, I PvPed, but I just enjoyed seeing the game. Except, outside of T1 and some of t2, everything was BARREN. Sure, I had a guild, but outside of them, I felt alone. The reason was because SCs were the best XP, and people were doing that and RvR.
But the RvR at the time was terrible. A certain few classes just MELTED everything. BWs first, and sorcs right behind them. WEs weren't far behind. They said this game wasn't going to revolve around CC. Which is true. Instead of using CC on one person at a certain time to push, you just spam it on both sides and hope for the best.
The servers, connections, bugs, crashes and what not were terrible. It all just kept adding up. I like how they tried to put each pairings lore together. But it just hurt. Rather, they should have worked it so that it wasn't a totally different zone had only that faction. It shoulda been more mixed too.
For me, the biggest failure was the crafting. It's so horrible, I was so disappointed...
The rest? Sure it's all cramped and linear and stuff, but that's with many MMORPGs that way. It was just hyped up too much. All in all I like the game, yet I never really had the urge to press on. Partly because of the lack of content updates. Yes there are all sorts of smaller updates, but I want an MMORPG to evolve, to change.
IMO the reason Warhammer failed was because of the Over Hype that went into it.
So if it wasn't overhyped it would have sucked less?
A piece of crap is a piece of crap .. hype's got nothing to do with it.
Well, i played 1 year this piece of crap. Sorry but not eveyone thinks that the game sucks.
But still you are calling it a piece of crap and only played for 1 year.
People like what they like. Its like those people that collect beanie babbies or coins... I have no idea how anyone could find that fun. Liking WAR is the same way. I just accept that people like it, shake my head and move on.
People do the same when i tell them i play EvE lol.
IMO the reason Warhammer failed was because of the Over Hype that went into it.
So if it wasn't overhyped it would have sucked less?
A piece of crap is a piece of crap .. hype's got nothing to do with it.
Well, i played 1 year this piece of crap. Sorry but not eveyone thinks that the game sucks.
But still you are calling it a piece of crap and only played for 1 year.
People like what they like. Its like those people that collect beanie babbies or coins... I have no idea how anyone could find that fun. Liking WAR is the same way. I just accept that people like it, shake my head and move on.
People do the same when i tell them i play EvE lol.
True .. I was just playin a bit.
I didn't like WAR because of several reasons and I am sure some people liked the game for whatever other reasons.
But the reason I (or somebody) liked or disliked the game had absolutely no relation with the amount of hype the game got.
You either like it or don't like it.
The only thing I can see hype having an influence on is people buying the game based on that hype. "They say its a good game ... I believe them/the hype ... so I buy it on good faith." Marketing tricks.
Than depending on the fact you liked or disliked the game one can say the hype was true or false.
Hype will not make you hate/love a game more when you actually get to play it.
Hype will not make you hate/love a game more when you actually get to play it
......*scratches head* Um yes it does if you go for the hype?
If you hate it,that "hype" develops that into rage posts...
Personal Expectations should be left at the entrance of store, games in general but especially MMO's. Hell just throw it out the window, you'll save yourself from all if not some disappointment (if the alloted game sucks)
Hype will not make you hate/love a game more when you actually get to play it
......*scratches head* Um yes it does if you go for the hype?
If you hate it,that "hype" develops that into rage posts...
Personal Expectations should be left at the entrance of store, games in general but especially MMO's. Hell just throw it out the window, you'll save yourself from all if not some disappointment (if the alloted game sucks)
Read what I wrote please ... Hype will not make you hate/love a game more when you actually get to play it
Before that particulary phase of actually playing the game, hype does to you what you let it do to you,
but ... when you actually are in front of your pc playing it, all bets are off and you will like it or hate it based on your own experience.
Waaaaaaay to much pve focus in a pvp centric game, thinking endgame and PQ gear set drops.
An inept original dev team who spent more time shouting and arseing around on youtube videos then actually working on the game.
Only two realms.
WAR had things going for it, like it's base combat mechanics, but it had some serious issues which have little to nothing to do with it being overhyped.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
You don't need to come up with big theories as such.
The game already falls short in its simplest animation and combat features.
I mean fire it up and start playing and at level 8 go for a scenario and in between do some PVE fights.
Then start playing a BG in WoW. i mean: everyone can see the obvious. It simply couldn't stand the test against the game it tried to copy in the first place.
You really had to be a blinded fan at launch time, but these days, come on guys, that animation and UI was supposed to get 3 million players from WoW ?
You don't need to come up with big theories as such.
The game already falls short in its simplest animation and combat features.
I mean fire it up and start playing and at level 8 go for a scenario and in between do some PVE fights.
Then start playing a BG in WoW. i mean: everyone can see the obvious. It simply couldn't stand the test against the game it tried to copy in the first place.
You really had to be a blinded fan at launch time, but these days, come on guys, that animation and UI was supposed to get 3 million players from WoW ?
Hype is so limited in time. No surprises here.
WAR wasnt trying to copy WoW. Maybe you have and maybe you havent been here long enough to see the discussions. But I dont feel like explaining the long history of WARhammer and how it relates to WoW.
Graphics were good. The UI was good (looking). A million other things were just broke.
You don't need to come up with big theories as such.
The game already falls short in its simplest animation and combat features.
I mean fire it up and start playing and at level 8 go for a scenario and in between do some PVE fights.
Then start playing a BG in WoW. i mean: everyone can see the obvious. It simply couldn't stand the test against the game it tried to copy in the first place.
You really had to be a blinded fan at launch time, but these days, come on guys, that animation and UI was supposed to get 3 million players from WoW ?
Hype is so limited in time. No surprises here.
WAR wasnt trying to copy WoW. Maybe you have and maybe you havent been here long enough to see the discussions. But I dont feel like explaining the long history of WARhammer and how it relates to WoW.
Graphics were good. The UI was good (looking). A million other things were just broke.
Where did you get the 3 million players number?
At the time of WAR's release Blizzard had about 6million people. Mythic we're trying to 'claim' all these players from WoW.
WAR's failure was it was made by Mythic, whose only good games we're Spellbinder & Dark Age of Cameltoe.
Mythic got lucky with DAoC, then they released ToA and killed it.
You don't need to come up with big theories as such.
The game already falls short in its simplest animation and combat features.
I mean fire it up and start playing and at level 8 go for a scenario and in between do some PVE fights.
Then start playing a BG in WoW. i mean: everyone can see the obvious. It simply couldn't stand the test against the game it tried to copy in the first place.
You really had to be a blinded fan at launch time, but these days, come on guys, that animation and UI was supposed to get 3 million players from WoW ?
Hype is so limited in time. No surprises here.
WAR wasnt trying to copy WoW. Maybe you have and maybe you havent been here long enough to see the discussions. But I dont feel like explaining the long history of WARhammer and how it relates to WoW.
Graphics were good. The UI was good (looking). A million other things were just broke.
Where did you get the 3 million players number?
At the time of WAR's release Blizzard had about 6million people. Mythic we're trying to 'claim' all these players from WoW.
WAR's failure was it was made by Mythic, whose only good games we're Spellbinder & Dark Age of Cameltoe.
Mythic got lucky with DAoC, then they released ToA and killed it.
Western Wow you mean? Because I think WoW had far more at WAR's release.
You don't need to come up with big theories as such.
The game already falls short in its simplest animation and combat features.
I mean fire it up and start playing and at level 8 go for a scenario and in between do some PVE fights.
Then start playing a BG in WoW. i mean: everyone can see the obvious. It simply couldn't stand the test against the game it tried to copy in the first place.
You really had to be a blinded fan at launch time, but these days, come on guys, that animation and UI was supposed to get 3 million players from WoW ?
Hype is so limited in time. No surprises here.
WAR wasnt trying to copy WoW. Maybe you have and maybe you havent been here long enough to see the discussions. But I dont feel like explaining the long history of WARhammer and how it relates to WoW.
Graphics were good. The UI was good (looking). A million other things were just broke.
Where did you get the 3 million players number?
At the time of WAR's release Blizzard had about 6million people. Mythic we're trying to 'claim' all these players from WoW.
WAR's failure was it was made by Mythic, whose only good games we're Spellbinder & Dark Age of Cameltoe.
Mythic got lucky with DAoC, then they released ToA and killed it.
Yeah lucky, like all those designers rolled dice to see what features were going to go into the game. You sound like a AshersonsCrap fan.
You don't need to come up with big theories as such.
The game already falls short in its simplest animation and combat features.
I mean fire it up and start playing and at level 8 go for a scenario and in between do some PVE fights.
Then start playing a BG in WoW. i mean: everyone can see the obvious. It simply couldn't stand the test against the game it tried to copy in the first place.
You really had to be a blinded fan at launch time, but these days, come on guys, that animation and UI was supposed to get 3 million players from WoW ?
Hype is so limited in time. No surprises here.
WAR wasnt trying to copy WoW. Maybe you have and maybe you havent been here long enough to see the discussions. But I dont feel like explaining the long history of WARhammer and how it relates to WoW.
Graphics were good. The UI was good (looking). A million other things were just broke.
Where did you get the 3 million players number?
At the time of WAR's release Blizzard had about 6million people. Mythic we're trying to 'claim' all these players from WoW.
WAR's failure was it was made by Mythic, whose only good games we're Spellbinder & Dark Age of Cameltoe.
Mythic got lucky with DAoC, then they released ToA and killed it.
Yeah lucky, like all those designers rolled dice to see what features were going to go into the game. You sound like a AshersonsCrap fan.
Mythic simply did not have the experiance to handle large scale project like WAR. Yes they devoleped DAoC which was suprise hit and a relatively small in terms of budget, they spent only couple million on DAoC where was WAR was 50 million+. So looking back it wasn't suprise WAR failed to live upto expectations.
That, and there was the horrible crafting system which lead to the broken economy. The RVR was great, but them not releasing all of the classes led to a huge imbalance in the game.
Comments
I just didn't like the pvp balancing. I always felt like order had too many things that could heal. I also felt like there was no way to get rid of the wizards with their aoe roots.
Actually I played beta and release and I quit in an early enough time frame that everyone didnt quite exploit the Bright Wizard thing. I just didnt see that. But thats one Crowd Control ability geared with Overpowered dmg.
If the dmg wasnt completely nuts, would the CC still be the problem?
When I say CC, I mean CC spread across the board, for all classes. There wasnt enough counters. I hate to mention the pink elephant, but in WoW I think of the give and take between a mage and a warrior. The warrior reflects spells, and charges the mage who blinks and its not a straight up fight...which imo I saw too much of in WAR. (why the heck did I say too much... I didnt see ENOUGH counters, and ENOUGH give and take, and CC was part of that, sorry for the confusion....way to go me derpdurp)
Yes the crowd control was that big of a problem even when damage wasn't factored into the equation. Bright wizards/Sorcerors bomb groups were a whole different problem, including the overpowered group healing. Though I did love my warrior priest.
Anyhow, there was so much crowd control from so many classes. Healers had a fair amount, tanks had a lot, casters had some more and when everything was all said and done the same problem from DAOC repeated itself in Warhammer. Half of the fight you would spend stunned, mezzed, rooted, disarmed, thrown across the map or some other form of crowd control. The higher the tier you were in the worse it got. Melees had it really bad though.
That is why mythic spent a few patches trying to address it. Area effect damage was a monster all on its own.
If you had a chance to play a shadow warrior, you have to admit, there was nothign more exhilirating than booting some big tanks ass straight off a cliff. 3 secs of silence while I enjoy some good memories.....
Ok Im good now, on a side note, anyone play a Shammy in WoW after WAR was released? tsk tsk Blizz. Have an original idea for once.
Yeah I remember on my marauder. i would go up to the battle about to head to somebody..anddddd STUNNED ! ROOT! DISARMED! DEATH BY BRIGHT WIZARD'S RAIN OF FIRE!!!!"
That was 80% of my experience in Scenarios in my first few months. Then i had a pocket magus :P
Lol @ Shadow Warrior part, I loved doing that on my Squid Herd.
Introducing the best signature ever!
[signature] Best Signature [/signature]
When I played at release on PT, the server was mobbed so badly they cloned it to make room.
I wanted to expierence the lore and the PQs. Sure, I PvPed, but I just enjoyed seeing the game. Except, outside of T1 and some of t2, everything was BARREN. Sure, I had a guild, but outside of them, I felt alone. The reason was because SCs were the best XP, and people were doing that and RvR.
But the RvR at the time was terrible. A certain few classes just MELTED everything. BWs first, and sorcs right behind them. WEs weren't far behind. They said this game wasn't going to revolve around CC. Which is true. Instead of using CC on one person at a certain time to push, you just spam it on both sides and hope for the best.
The servers, connections, bugs, crashes and what not were terrible. It all just kept adding up. I like how they tried to put each pairings lore together. But it just hurt. Rather, they should have worked it so that it wasn't a totally different zone had only that faction. It shoulda been more mixed too.
For me, the biggest failure was the crafting. It's so horrible, I was so disappointed...
The rest? Sure it's all cramped and linear and stuff, but that's with many MMORPGs that way. It was just hyped up too much. All in all I like the game, yet I never really had the urge to press on. Partly because of the lack of content updates. Yes there are all sorts of smaller updates, but I want an MMORPG to evolve, to change.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
lets see. Biggest failure and something all devs should learn from.
That's easy. Never, Ever! Rely on a max capacity, faction balanced server to experience in game mechanics optimally.
WAR was filled with truly amazingly fun mechanics but they rely on the players to keep all those mechanics at their full potential.
Orvr sucks if no ones online, SCs don't pop if no ones online, PQs are worthless without a massive amount of players on in that particular zone.
WAR was just a miserable experience for me because every cool mechanic required a whole shit ton of people.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
So if it wasn't overhyped it would have sucked less?
A piece of crap is a piece of crap .. hype's got nothing to do with it.
totally agree!
He that lives upon Hope dies farting.
Well, i played 1 year this piece of crap. Sorry but not eveyone thinks that the game sucks.
He that lives upon Hope dies farting.
But still you are calling it a piece of crap and only played for 1 year.
People like what they like. Its like those people that collect beanie babbies or coins... I have no idea how anyone could find that fun. Liking WAR is the same way. I just accept that people like it, shake my head and move on.
People do the same when i tell them i play EvE lol.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
True .. I was just playin a bit.
I didn't like WAR because of several reasons and I am sure some people liked the game for whatever other reasons.
But the reason I (or somebody) liked or disliked the game had absolutely no relation with the amount of hype the game got.
You either like it or don't like it.
The only thing I can see hype having an influence on is people buying the game based on that hype. "They say its a good game ... I believe them/the hype ... so I buy it on good faith." Marketing tricks.
Than depending on the fact you liked or disliked the game one can say the hype was true or false.
Hype will not make you hate/love a game more when you actually get to play it.
I hope this makes sense.
......*scratches head* Um yes it does if you go for the hype?
If you hate it,that "hype" develops that into rage posts...
Personal Expectations should be left at the entrance of store, games in general but especially MMO's. Hell just throw it out the window, you'll save yourself from all if not some disappointment (if the alloted game sucks)
Introducing the best signature ever!
[signature] Best Signature [/signature]
Read what I wrote please ... Hype will not make you hate/love a game more when you actually get to play it
Before that particulary phase of actually playing the game, hype does to you what you let it do to you,
but ... when you actually are in front of your pc playing it, all bets are off and you will like it or hate it based on your own experience.
Too many servers.
Badly balanced 'mirror' classes.
Ridiculous levels of CC.
Waaaaaaay to much pve focus in a pvp centric game, thinking endgame and PQ gear set drops.
An inept original dev team who spent more time shouting and arseing around on youtube videos then actually working on the game.
Only two realms.
WAR had things going for it, like it's base combat mechanics, but it had some serious issues which have little to nothing to do with it being overhyped.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I went back last week to try it again.
Playing the free trial from scratch.
You don't need to come up with big theories as such.
The game already falls short in its simplest animation and combat features.
I mean fire it up and start playing and at level 8 go for a scenario and in between do some PVE fights.
Then start playing a BG in WoW. i mean: everyone can see the obvious. It simply couldn't stand the test against the game it tried to copy in the first place.
You really had to be a blinded fan at launch time, but these days, come on guys, that animation and UI was supposed to get 3 million players from WoW ?
Hype is so limited in time. No surprises here.
WAR wasnt trying to copy WoW. Maybe you have and maybe you havent been here long enough to see the discussions. But I dont feel like explaining the long history of WARhammer and how it relates to WoW.
Graphics were good. The UI was good (looking). A million other things were just broke.
Where did you get the 3 million players number?
At the time of WAR's release Blizzard had about 6million people. Mythic we're trying to 'claim' all these players from WoW.
WAR's failure was it was made by Mythic, whose only good games we're Spellbinder & Dark Age of Cameltoe.
Mythic got lucky with DAoC, then they released ToA and killed it.
Western Wow you mean? Because I think WoW had far more at WAR's release.
Yeah lucky, like all those designers rolled dice to see what features were going to go into the game. You sound like a AshersonsCrap fan.
Mythic simply did not have the experiance to handle large scale project like WAR. Yes they devoleped DAoC which was suprise hit and a relatively small in terms of budget, they spent only couple million on DAoC where was WAR was 50 million+. So looking back it wasn't suprise WAR failed to live upto expectations.
I didn't like the tunnel, but it would have been acceptable had the light at the end been three factions!
If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1000 MPG - Bill Gates
That, and there was the horrible crafting system which lead to the broken economy. The RVR was great, but them not releasing all of the classes led to a huge imbalance in the game.
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire