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Content Discussions are baseless and ignorant.
Birdy88
Member Posts: 107
I think alot of people just need a simple reality check with video games, everyone hypes up every new title to be the second coming of jesus, in a time where the video game industry has grown to the point where investment and profit have long since over taken enthusiast development.
The interface complaints I must admit are legit, there is no need for this kind of thing in 2010, was barely acceptble back in 2002.
But as far as content goes? who the hell are you whiners and why on earth do you expect there to be a 101 things to do other than story , killing and trades?
I guess il just quickly sum up my time spent early on in the most popular "Successful and zomg awesome" WoW.
Levels 1 to 10 - I killed boars in a farm, for some reason... oh and some humans, that made awesome "HYAH! sounds!" I was awarded exp one time for walking for 15 seconds, it was killer awesome. watching those boars and wolves die while I mash 1, 2 , 1 ,2 ,1 , 1.
Levels 11 to 20 - I killed half naked humans with red masks and picked up many quests making me walk around a bland field. Oh and i partyd a few times for an instance, it was fun.... but after once or twice, why do it?
Levels 20 to 80 - I pretty much just followed A to B egenric text written quests with no engaging cutscences, no engaging music, kids spamming a general chat, partied a total for about 10 times.
PvP was laggy, alot of people woudl lag out while engaging the opposite faction for the first few months, large scale PvP would crash the servers... and by large scale i mean about 20 people ffs.
Battlegrounds wernt there.
handful of dungeons.
No raids.
No minigames.
Just the core game.
So ummm, whats wrong with only have Story missions, guild missions, faction missions, guild leves, hard tradeskills and multiple class leveling at the launch of an MMO?
I think alot of people just need a simple reality check with video games, everyone hypes up every new title to be the second coming of jesus, in a time where the video game industry has grown to the point where investment and profit have long since over taken enthusiast development.
The interface complaints I must admit are legit, there is no need for this kind of thing in 2010, was barely acceptble back in 2002.
But as far as content goes? who the hell are you whiners and why on earth do you expect there to be a 101 things to do other than story , killing and trades?
I guess il just quickly sum up my time spent early on in the most popular "Successful and zomg awesome" WoW.
Levels 1 to 10 - I killed boars in a farm, for some reason... oh and some humans, that made awesome "HYAH! sounds!" I was awarded exp one time for walking for 15 seconds, it was killer awesome. watching those boars and wolves die while I mash 1, 2 , 1 ,2 ,1 , 1.
Levels 11 to 20 - I killed half naked humans with red masks and picked up many quests making me walk around a bland field. Oh and i partyd a few times for an instance, it was fun.... but after once or twice, why do it?
Levels 20 to 80 - I pretty much just followed A to B egenric text written quests with no engaging cutscences, no engaging music, kids spamming a general chat, partied a total for about 10 times.
PvP was laggy, alot of people woudl lag out while engaging the opposite faction for the first few months, large scale PvP would crash the servers... and by large scale i mean about 20 people ffs.
Battlegrounds wernt there.
handful of dungeons.
No raids.
No minigames.
Just the core game.
So ummm, whats wrong with only have Story missions, guild missions, faction missions, guild leves, hard tradeskills and multiple class leveling at the launch of an MMO?
I think alot of people just need a simple reality check with video games, everyone hypes up every new title to be the second coming of jesus, in a time where the video game industry has grown to the point where investment and profit have long since over taken enthusiast development.
The interface complaints I must admit are legit, there is no need for this kind of thing in 2010, was barely acceptble back in 2002.
But as far as content goes? who the hell are you whiners and why on earth do you expect there to be a 101 things to do other than story , killing and trades?
I guess il just quickly sum up my time spent early on in the most popular "Successful and zomg awesome" WoW.
Levels 1 to 10 - I killed boars in a farm, for some reason... oh and some humans, that made awesome "HYAH! sounds!" I was awarded exp one time for walking for 15 seconds, it was killer awesome. watching those boars and wolves die while I mash 1, 2 , 1 ,2 ,1 , 1.
Levels 11 to 20 - I killed half naked humans with red masks and picked up many quests making me walk around a bland field. Oh and i partyd a few times for an instance, it was fun.... but after once or twice, why do it?
Levels 20 to 80 - I pretty much just followed A to B egenric text written quests with no engaging cutscences, no engaging music, kids spamming a general chat, no insentive to party at all bar 1 or 2 dungeon runs,partied a total for about 10 times.
PvP was laggy, alot of people woudl lag out while engaging the opposite faction for the first few months, large scale PvP would crash the servers... and by large scale i mean about 20 people ffs.
Battlegrounds wernt there.
handful of dungeons.
No raids.
No minigames.
Just the core game.
So ummm, whats wrong with only have Story missions, guild missions, faction missions, guild leves, hard tradeskills and multiple class leveling at the launch of an MMO?
IS that not enough for a starting point? if you think it isnt, well then, I dont know why are anticipating these models of MMOs at all because your up in lala land thinking it would be any different.
Comments
Here I thought this was going to be about how we were able to compare the size of the beta client to the required installation size as reported in the system requirements and point out that apparently at least abput half the hard drive footprint size is missing, indicating that (as Square-Enix has been telling us all along) a ton of post-release content is on the way.
Anywho, I haven't heard a lot of people complaining about the content, per se. What I've mostly heard them complaining about (aside from the GUI being different than they're used to) is that the game doesn't lead you around as much as they'd like. In other MMORPGs, you'll have NPCs with big exclaimation points over their head. FFXIV actually has you wander around and find who you want to talk to. It's jarring for them after having it handed to them fro so long.
Really? I would of thought it would of been obvious that the standard content for levels 1-50 will be in the game from release, as it is pretty standard, hell the patch was a few MB that unlocked the entire 2 other cities, and thier cutscenes.. granted already downloaded along with the beta.
Being lead around at the start isnt a bad idea, the ingame story kind of does that, but not so forcefully. but in the end, I got sick and tired of playing a solo game all the way to the max levels, going from A to B and Ironically having to download interface addons, and read guides online to find the quickest and easiest ways to complete the chore that is Questing in games like World of Warcraft.
Hell, we tried ALLODs.... but was immediatly turned off by the "Go hear, kill generic mobs", I see the irony in this since this is what Leves do, but damn at least it encourages team play, party setups and communication.
A learning curve sets you apart, and is more engaging.
I dont really care wether i come off smug or what. but the more negative reviews I see of this based in comparison with "modern western MMOs" ... the more I think "Oh good, something thats not just aimed at downers."
See, that's exactly it. Some of the players want to be told exactly where to go and what they need to do because they can see that in virtually every other MMORPG made these days because they wall want a piece of the WoW pie. But the rest of us are getting really tired of "go here, kill generic mobs," and that the majority of FFXIV (outside of Guildleves) is "open world, find what you need the hard way" is a breath of fresh air.
'Tis a return to proper (sort of) questing, I say, and about time. My idea of a quest?
I went to an Inn to talk to my long last adventuring buddy about a rumour he heard of hidden treasure. I go up to his room. He's dead, and there's a dagger with twin spiders etched into the blade. Find his killer. Off ye go now !
But alas, nowadays we have "Find his killer...by first speaking to that guy riiiiiiiight there. Then...."
Well considering retail version is approx 22gig and OB Client was what? 8gig? I'd say thats a fair bit of content that will be new at release.
source
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=1284668596301028228&page=1
i agree with you. ffxi, and possibly ffxiv requires you to actually use your brain to figure things out (post wiki's which are so helpful, but can ruin gameplay a bit). i remember when they came out with a new quest and you have to guess which npcs you had to talk to only by a few clues. the hours i spent running around till i asked someone or found out myself.
i am an adult, i can cross the street myself, kthx mmo's.
About time somebody linked that. I was trying to figure out where this 22gb number was coming from. I was using the 15 GB number because the system requirements page says you need 15GB to install. Although, actually, on closer examination, it says 15 GB install plus 6 GB download.
Birdy88 has a point. In fact I think games companies trying to better this model end up with a game that plays more like a single player action game within an MMO, or just dilute the genre.
Take WOW's dynamic game feature in WoTLK. Though it added an epic fantasy feel, it also made the game feel heavily instanced and thus removed from the continuous nature of the game.
It's something that puts me off of Guild Wars 2 quite alot. How they're selling it as something that ends up with different people experiencing these semi-instanced experiences just for themselves whilst others go about their business. For me it kind of kills the point of an MMO, you might as well just be playing a single player action game.
Basically, MMOs shouldn't try to be all things to all people. Appreciate they're slightly niched titles. It's just the $ hungry games companies trying to sap the monthly revenue streams/item shop incomes that will pander to the largest crowd as opposed to gamers seeing a proper MMORPG title.
Ok fine! For those of you playing XIV, you are obviously the most hardcore MMO gamers in the world! I get it!
Those 10 million + gamers playing WoW must be the biggest tards on Earth....
Or... maybe Blizzard does a good job at offering content for pretty much all audiences. A huge majority of those subs don't raid, they just play to craft, dungeon crawl, RP, or whatever.
I guess those FFXIV players can sit happily on their throne knowing they are the most elite gamers ever.
Don't be surprised to see server merges and low populations, thus slowing down the development of patches and expansions because only the hardcore gamer need play this title...
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Because that's what happened with FFXI right? Wrong.
FFXI was hardcore, and received more content patches / updates in each 6 month period than WoW has in it's entire existance. SE knows how to push content, and they know how to do it right.
Unfortunately this is the real world. Your fantasy of this ideal MMO publisher cannot exist without some form of income to pay for the people and projects that run MMO's.
Your ideal image of a world where everyone is created equal and people don't aspire to make a profit will almost certainly fail. Kind of like the ideals of Marx and a system of Communism. Theoretically, a very utopian idea, but will never come true, because people are not born equal.
You see a lot of publishers switching to a F2P model these days. I.e. EQ2, PoTBS, DND, LOTR, etc. not because they are greedy, but because the item shop model is the only way they can avoid bankruptcy.
Feel thankful that SE still has the capital power to develop an MMO and only charge 13$/month. But then again, the console market is probably way more stable than the PC. So they can add very unorthodox and very risky features (or not add them) because; A: its a FF game and B: Tons of people will still play the PS3 version.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
It's really not that complicated. You just keep your budget within a reasonable place that doesn't far outpace the number of players that you expect to play.
Final Fantasy XI managed to hold about 500k subscribers. It doesn't seem like a lot compared to World of Warcraft's 13 million, but did you know that World of Warcraft's success is a very, very unusual situation? An MMORPG company can survive quite well on a few hundred thousand subscribers. Heck, even if you only had ten thousand subscribers, if those ten thousand pay $15/mo, that's $150,000/mo. You can keep a lot of employees running on that kind of scratch!
How companies like RealTime Worlds (the makers of APB) fail is that they invest way too much money and this leaves them no choice but to try to pull in the biggest audience possible. Guess what? That didn't work, because if you try to pull in the biggest audience possible you lack the reliability of appeal you would get out of more accurately targetting a niche.
Square-Enix has nothing to worry about because they are making a game that is a sequel to a long, highly prestigous series, they have at least 100k subscribers as a very bad, lowball figure. Even at that level, it wouldn't take them long at all to pay back their development costs. Therefore, they can easily afford to target a niche, as opposed to the unreliable, often suicidal tactic of trying to target everyone.
Honestly, what it with it with my fellow MMORPG forum posters who think how much money an MMORPG company makes is a reason for them to insist that they do things their way? It's like I have a rude neighbor who tells me I should tear up my flower bed and start a strip mining operation.
I'm having trouble grasping how you could quantify your argument. Plus, It's highly unlikely you played WoW from beta to its current version to proclaim any such idea.
In any case, FFXI was released before WoW, so it wasn't held to the same standard.
FFXIV will most assuredly be scrutinized to a much higher degree. Such is the evolution of the MMO genre. Everything is compared to WoW. That is why so many people easily bash the game, when deep down, if more publishers cared/had the same talent/money as Blizzard, we would have a lot more fun to play AAA titles.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
And if the only production companies making films were giants like Fox/Miramount/ and Universal then movies would finally be more fun to watch too....
FFXIV is oranges to WoW apples. The MMO industry is not singularly focused on one template, Square Enix realizes this; this why their game will not fail to replicate, because it does not even attempt to. Yet people still buy and play their games. Maybe these professional game development veterans know a thing or two about what they are doing.
No wait, you probably know better what I over here am looking for in a game and if you could only get your hands on tens of millions of dollars you would put out the best, most sucessful, most awesomenest game ever!!! Alas... since you don't have any such project in the works yet I guess I'll just have to give my money to Square Enix, for now...
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
You are right, FFXIV will be scrutinized. But not by everyone. FFXIV and WoW are two completely different games, each one appealing to different crowds. You like WoW. I don't. See how that works? We are both people, but I like different things than you do.
I'm not the only one, either. Even if not one single person in the U.S. plays FFXIV the game will still be a success. It's a Japan made game, and will sell extremely well over there. Not to mention it is being released in China. And on top of all of this, there will be at least a decent sized player base in the U.S.
I know I'll be there, I know my entire Linkshell will be there, and I know many others will be too. FFXIV is here to stay, so you might as well get used to it. You don't have to play it, You don't have to like it, hell you can even hate it if you want to, but it will be successful.
Completely understandable. I don't think FFXIV needs millions of subscribers to break even. Although, you really need to include the initial development cost as well, not just the employee salaries. People estimate SW:TOR has cost over 100 million $ to create. In this case, publisher's are going to demand a timely and profitable ROI.
This is where MMO's fail to realize popularity because they are rushed out the door hoping to see profit as fast as possible. I don't doubt SE is a very capable gaming company, but I do also think they are not immune to failed projects as big as the FF IP. (See FF13) That is why in my mind, creating a game to include more than just the 'hardcore' gamers is necessary as a requirement of any long term project if your hoping to make a profit.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Meh, I played WoW for a couple months very casually, but the only game I play now is Starcraft 2 while I wait for Diablo 3.
Wow isn't perfect, but I have to applaud Blizzard for continuously producing amazing and popular games.
I tried FFXIV for a week or so and by no means do I hate it, but the OP kept bashing WoW for whatever reason, so I felt compelled to say something.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
i think a lot of the naysayers/detractors are forgetting (or maybedont understand the significance) that we are not talking about 2-guys-in-a-basement game dev company. we are talking about Square-enix, probably the most respected RPG developer outside of north america (even though the last remnant blew chunks hehe).
the only mmo that they made so far (ffxi) was successful and new content was/is still always being released.
i think for them, breaking the high watermark of ffxi subs will be considered success to them (i am guessing about 500k? someone here probably knows the amount of ppl) and i bet they'll get it.
i was ready to cringe when i started beta based on reviews here, but blam, i played it myself and i immediately liked the game. it's really just a better version of xi.
i shd have known better. it's squEnix, they know what they are doing. I have faith the game @ release and into the future will be better still.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
I don't think that will happen either because, well, XIV is an FF game and its fans no what to expect from SE. I played WAR at launch and mythic managed to hook into that WoW game mentality as there were a large number of WoW players at launch, but then for one reason or another players left, probably because if an RvR end-game is bugged and has issues then it just isn't going to sustain a population of players. But, XIV isn't pitched at the WoW crowd, as evidenced by the fact that stuff such as question marks floating above npcs aren't present. What I think you will see is a strong launch, followed by an even larger influx of players at PS3 retail launch. We are probably talking a game with over 1 million subs after 12 months world wide. It's what a lot of mmorpg posters cannot seem to get their heads around, XIV just is aimed/targeted at a market of gamers that is not the same as the current WoW population.
Making analogous arguments comparing the film industry to the gaming industry is also oranges and apples :P
Producing films is risky just as it would be to create a game, but the target audience is not the same.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I don't consider myself a "hardcore gamer" at all and yet i'm jumping into FF XIV and I'm really look forward to it.
I want to travel, I want to find new things about the game as I go through it.
I want to be entertained and I think this game is capable of that and if it takes me two years to hit end game so be it... thats two years that I was entertained for even better if i'm entertained I won't ever feel i've reached the end game.
To look to WOW for answers in regard to MMO'S isn't really fair at this point. I started playing WOW in 2005 and thought it was a good game at first but its changed dramatically over the years to the point that I reactivated my accound earlier this year and realized I no longer considered it an MMO. It was a bunch of people standing around one city checking each others gear scores, as I talked to the people I knew I found out most of them don't really "play" anymore they might run a couple instances here or there but generally they log in to chat and keep in touch. This article pretty much convinced me it was no longer the game for me.
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/press/pressreleases.html?100505
Alot of people obviously feel that its still a good game and thats good for them but me personally won't be going back and i'm looking for something new to occupy my time.
In one sentence, I will summarize my post directed to the OP.
To the OP:
You are basically saying players of FFXIV are totally hardcore badasses and any other game (especially WoW) is for retarded monkeys.
I don't care how successful FFXIV becomes. I never said the game was bad. I wanted to point out how biased and arrogant his argument seems. Then I went on to say, I think MMO's actually should try to cater to a more general audience if they want to realize some profits. And in fact they actually already are, when they open the genre to not only PC gamers, but also PS3 gamers.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Perhaps your reading comprehension needs some work I dont know, I played WoW for 4 years, but I can see how a completely hand-held experiance that offers little to no challenge, no "adventure" no exploration and no learning for oneself about the world and how it works.... isnt always the anwser.
I also pointed out that what I did in WoW on REALEASE and in BETA was nothing more exciting, envolving or content driven than the FFXIV beta .... and yet people complain about lack of things to do.... when its the same idea.
Dont know where you pulled FF11 out of, I only played that for a year.
But carry on, its fun watching you either mis-interpretate, or angrily twist because I called WoW out for what it is, a heavily instanced, small worlded A - B for 5-10days played experiance that mayaswell be done in single player and have an online lobby for its dungeons.
Dont derail my thread. its not a WoW vs FFXIV... its a "THEYRE BOTH IDENTICAL LOWER LEVELS" thread.
All I'm going to say is that I will reserve judgement till after release.
I have been following this game for a long time. I am not testing it nor do I want to. I have always been a big fan of the FF series and any time there is a game I am anxiously awaiting I prefer not to test it as it may spoil my oppinion, or ejoyment of the newness of the game.
However that said I will also say that giving all the information that has been put out by people in the OB it has me somewhat concerned and it is taking all of my will not to let it all disuade me from actually trying it after release. But I'm holding true I have my Special edition Preorder for a while now and its almost here. When it is I will give the game a good go and reserve judgment till I am at least half way through leveling one toon. My experience up until then will be what I form my oppinions of the game off of, and at that time you can all expect a nice hefty forum post of post launch break down of the game from me.
Also for the record I have beta tested most games out there with the exception of WoW. WoW was another one of the games I didn't want to spoil for myself with beta testing as I have always been a huge fan of the warcraft, starcraft, diablo series.
I have also played most games post launch to mid to high levels. And I'm not just boasting. I've been playing MMO's since 1998 with the launch of EQ 1 and have no prefrence between sandbox, and theme park games. I enjoy all styles of play and will give an honest impartial oppinion based on post launch within a month of the release, which I will guarantee at least 40 hours a week in the game after launch until the time of my break down.
I think that the spotty history of beta -> release reinforces the idea that what is promised may not be part of the game. Especially when what is promised is not in beta less than a week from release.
That doesn't make sense to the OP?