There is so much I miss from the first wave of MMORPGS... And I might be, I KNOW I am in the minority. I miss waiting for the boat, I miss trying to find a wizard to gate me where I needed to be, all of that crap.
Having said that, I am more than 10 years older now and do not have the time to sit and wait for a 45 minute experience...the boat...
I do love the accesibility of games nowadays, but the old bull in me wants another EQ-esque world, Vanguard hit it for me, but I have been gone for so long....
Oh, and I can't spell accesibility.... Or esque...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I am satisfied as the games are actually getting better every few years and now many great games are going free.
If they were great games, they would not be going free. Alternative Payment Method models are solely for the company's benefit in an attempt to turn a profit on a dying game.
For free you can enjoy all of this
LOTRO, D&D Online, EQ2, League of Legends(not really MMO), Vindictus, Allods, Runes of Magic, Atlantica, and so many more.
Not true. For free, you can enjoy limited parts of all of that - if you enjoy limited parts.
You guys remember the glory days, but those games are not really as good as you try to make it seem. They were just NEW, something never before seen and your first experiences of online gaming. You will never be able to replace those memories with anything better. It is like your first GF/BF, you always consider them to be something special even if they were not.
A sad fallacy. If there had been evolution of what those games were, you would have a point. The comparison on where new games fail is concrete - not subjective.
Another problem is that I believe many older gamers are OLDER and have played so long they are sick of it but have nothing else they know of as a social life. So, the ones that do not have a "life" are looking for a game to be their outlet and social life and to make up for what is lacking in their actual real world. NO GAME is going to do that for you, sorry.
A strawman deflection. It was the spoiled ADHD twitch kiddies that led to the retarded pacing.
There are games with open worlds such as Darkfall and a couple others, they are just not that fun. Ultima and EQ1 and all those games only seemed fun because liek i said it was new and your 1st online game. If they are so great you would be playing them even now as they continue to have new content released each year.
You realize that the reason that new content is released for those games is because people are still playing them...? Lol, too funny.
I am happy to play FFXIV in a couple days with my GF and enjoy the game for what it is, A GAME! I don't need something that replaces my whole life, just a game to enjoy as gaming is one of my favorite hobbies, but I do not want a game to take over my whole life, that's not what games are meant to do.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything. MMORPGs, RPGs, etc - by their nature require a larger investment of time. There have always been quicker games if somebody wanted a quick spurt of fun. Even with that, previous games allowed for a longer period of time to complete tasks - the twitch kiddies needed the instant gratification which led to longer gaming periods.
This post has been a trip to read....lol.
Thanks for replying to that whatever it is. I was just about to send a reply too but then you posted [Thank God].
The words you used; fallacy and strawman, reveal your darkest secrets however!
I really wouldnt call the last few years of the genre an evolution as nothing really evolved. The game play is the same, just a tad bit more streamlined.
If anything I would say the last few years the genre has plateued as new ideas and 'trying something different' has been replaced with 'let's copy what Bob did... but add a slight twist to it...'
Now it seems they are more interested in evolving the payment/revenue models than they are in evolving the gameplay itself.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Personally I feel that MMO's have lost alot of the Massive and the Multiplayer parts of the game. Mainstream MMO game worlds feel linear and when I talk about multiplayer Im mainly talk about Travel and Lack there of Community pride. With Quick Travel you lose and sense of the Massive world and you miss out on the experience of actually just meeting people as you go, also with games like War and Wow just making you queue in lines for Bg, Sc, and Dungeons you lose a sense of community when your just thrown in with a group of people and thrown out at the end of the Bg, Sc, or dungeon.
Also it seems like newer MMO's seem to be focusing on the Soloing experience which seems weird, If I want to Solo Ill go play a single player game.
I think there are very few new creative ideas. All the companies go after creating big world with a lot of grinding because they see less risk. I really hope some companies start to produce some better and more creative mmorpgs.
There have been a lot of boundaries pushed that I greatly respect in their own right, but which have yet to come together to produce a better overall game.
One game with great character customization, one game with a superb advancement system, one game with excellent role-playing features, one game with unparalleled graphics, and so on... but on their own, each game is nothing special. The mutations die out. Need more interbreeding.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Not really. There isn't that much difference from my first game, Meridian 59, and the modern games.
The combat is more or less the same as it was then and while have seen some good new ideas, like the guildcity of AoC most are still the same and the things that have evolved is mostly fluff.
The fact that almost every game uses the same mechanics is really the problem as I see it.Why can't anybody make a MMO based on Runequest instead of D&D? There is nothing really wrong with the mechanics, it works but when all games are more or less the same, why bother to change to another?
But it seems like some creativity is finally coming now. I hope that World of darkness online will open up a lot more, and GW 2 is also on the right way.
Doing everything like before but adding better graphics and making the game easier is not something that can last forever, and it is the reason no one have been able to get as many subs as Wow, there is not much reason to change since the rest of the games are so similar.
There is room in the game for old fashioned MMOs but there must also be some that thinks outside the box or the MMOs will sooner or later start to die. And borrowing a few good features from other games just is not enough anymore.
Not really. There isn't that much difference from my first game, Meridian 59, and the modern games.
The combat is more or less the same as it was then and while have seen some good new ideas, like the guildcity of AoC most are still the same and the things that have evolved is mostly fluff.
The fact that almost every game uses the same mechanics is really the problem as I see it.Why can't anybody make a MMO based on Runequest instead of D&D? There is nothing really wrong with the mechanics, it works but when all games are more or less the same, why bother to change to another?
But it seems like some creativity is finally coming now. I hope that World of darkness online will open up a lot more, and GW 2 is also on the right way.
Doing everything like before but adding better graphics and making the game easier is not something that can last forever, and it is the reason no one have been able to get as many subs as Wow, there is not much reason to change since the rest of the games are so similar.
There is room in the game for old fashioned MMOs but there must also be some that thinks outside the box or the MMOs will sooner or later start to die. And borrowing a few good features from other games just is not enough anymore.
Wow really? Runequest? Amazing, first time I have ever heard someone mention that rpg on these forums. Runequest is definitely different and quite the rpg!
Sorry the Free to play genre games has killed it...Well over 200 free to play games and not one of them is a AAA....And as for the Pay to play games, not one of these game makers dare to shy away from the WOW clone making type games..
I just love trolls who make baseless posts like this. "Every MMO out is a WoW Clone. DO I have anything evidence to back this up? Nope. Its a WoW Clone I dont have to prove that its similar to WoW its still a clone."
Jusr cause its a MMO doesnt make it a WoW Clone. Come up with a real reason why you think MMO havent evolved. Oh wait you cant your so fixated on every mmo out being a WoW Clone.
MMO's have evolved From Text Based to Graphics to Evolving worlds that use Phasing to show the passage of time and events happening that you have a part of. If it wasnt for games like Guild Wars and LOTRO we would be stuck doing "KIll X Number of Y for XP and Gold" from level 1 to level 400. Its just that the evolution of the genre is to slow to see it grow. Some might say its of fear of spending the big bucks to make it. I say its cause the Big Name Companies are looking at the ones out and seeing what works and what doesnt. 10 years ago if someone told me companies like Blizzard, BioWare, and Interplay where going to make online games I would of said they were insane. Now look where we are Blizzard has the biggest MMO name BioWare has started making a Star Wars MMO and Interplay has started making a MMO based off one of the best SciFi CRPG titles ever Fallout Online. There is only one way for the MMO genre to go and that is up.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Originally posted by Explorium I am happy with how they evolved. Unlike some people on here, I have a life...and I'm glad MMOs are becoming more casual based. No longer do I have to play 12 hours or more a day to compete with no-lifers. I can actually be a part of RAIDS, where as, before only hardcore no-lifers could be a part of them. I can actually take part in MMOs now, where as, before I couldn't.
I'm very happy with the way they are going. I no longer have to play MMOs as a second JOB, but now I can play it as what they are...a game...fun...ENTERTAINMENT.
How complete falacy is this. There were casuals in old mmorpgs and hardcores. People are just so selective in what they see.. I see people playing so much WoW and citing its casual its such a joke their sheer contradiction. Just like Eve Online. People cite the casualness of that. I got a friend who is basically always on that..
I am happy with how they evolved. Unlike some people on here, I have a life...and I'm glad MMOs are becoming more casual based. No longer do I have to play 12 hours or more a day to compete with no-lifers. I can actually be a part of RAIDS, where as, before only hardcore no-lifers could be a part of them. I can actually take part in MMOs now, where as, before I couldn't.
I'm very happy with the way they are going. I no longer have to play MMOs as a second JOB, but now I can play it as what they are...a game...fun...ENTERTAINMENT.
How complete falacy is this. There were casuals in old mmorpgs and hardcores. People are just so selective in what they see.. I see people playing so much WoW and citing its casual its such a joke their sheer contradiction. Just like Eve Online. People cite the casualness of that. I got a friend who is basically always on that..
Yes there were casual gamers in the old mmorpg's but if you wanted to get anywherew you had to be a power gamer. Only the power gamer(aka hardcore gamer) had the best weapons best equipment because they poured more time in to the game. You can try to deny this but it is true. Before WoW came out if you were a casual gamer you could never join the 40 man raids because you didnt have the equipment to join. Because of Blizzard and WoW major game companies are now paying attention to the casual gamer, naking it easier for those who only have 2-4 hours of game time a day to play. You cry falacy at this but it is the truth you need to open your eyes to see it.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Also, theres a lot of areas where Vanguard could be improved:
- Wellmade PvP
- Dynamic Gameworld (environment changes over time, quests are templates that get implemented at random places, if you kill a mob somewhere theres nothing to be found at that place for some time etc)
- Player driven gameworld (players can conquer, build etc)
- Good handling of changing player counts
P.s.: The only MMO I'm looking forward to is SWTOR, because that could be a different game. Otherwise I'm underwhelmed by the options offered in the future. There is definitely nothing made that could replace Vanguard.
I don't like current MMOs. Older MMORPGs were built as worlds where players can interact, today MMORPGs are built as RPGs. Every new MMO is more and more instanced and put in small themepark areas without any exploration whatsoever, just to justify the "storyline". Part of it is caused by graphics - make no mistake, WoW could have been photorealistic, but by going for lowpoly stylized setting, in the time AoC devs make 1 character model, WoW can pump five models. In effect, you have much more content, making the world "big".
I also wonder why so few MMOs have seamless worlds. How fun is it to have roads between zones and unclimbable mountains, because you have to accomodate a loading screen somewhere
Third thing I don't enjoy in new MMOs is lack of open world PvP. I am not saying arenas/battlegrounds are bad, but open warfare bulids a community in a strange way, creating funny guild drama. Look at EVE money scams or WoW funeral event, people discuss this even today in youtube comments, lots of people joined the game just because of that, because it shows you what game designers call "emergent gameplay" - completely unscripted event that happened because of relations between players.
Fourth thing I am bothered with is connected to themeparking - I launched WoW trial two weeks ago just for fun to see how the game changed last time I played. Before, quests told you to go "north and climb the mountain to the top". Today, you don't care , you just look at the map because you have a big marker "GO QUEST HERE" on the map where's the fun of exploration, looking for that damn cave which you can't find :P
that said, I am looking forward to incoming MMOs and I hope they will bring something new and positive to the genre. I know I will be playing GW2, I would also play Rift, but payment model puts me off.
I started my MMO experiences with UO (same as a lot of people). But prior to that I played a lot of single player RPGs (my favorite was Planescape Torment) and adventure games (starting with Myst and including such great titles as the Gabriel Knight series, the Broken Sword series, and the Monkey Island games, of course...among many others like Grim Fandango, which was a complete brain work out...god what a great game that was). What I see now....that had not occured to me before....is what I finally realized to be the thing I have found so lacking in modern MMOs that the older games had. Not just the older MMOs, but the older games in all of those genres......problem solving. Puzzles, for lack of a better word. Not puzzles like Bejeweled...casual connect 3 type stuff...but thought puzzles.
Lately I've started playing Runescape, which I had never played for more than a few days before, because I found the graphics rather...blah...and it kept me from getting into it. They have changed a LOT graphically, but otherwise, as well. But what I've found I'm most ENJOYING has nothing to do with good or "bad" graphics, but rather with opportunities to solve problems and to THINK without being told what to do every step of the way. Older games used to have that too, and I had forgotten how much I loved it.
For instance....there was a quest where you had to go get this lady's cat back for her. It had run off. You had to figure out where it was, figure out how to "convince it" to return with you and not claw your eyes out. The quest did not tell you how to go about doing any of that. It gave you an idea of the area the cat might be in...and that was all. So I went to find it....tried to pick it up to take it back...and it wouldn't do anything but hiss and scratch at me. Anyway...weak example of what I'm talking about, BUT...I ended up trekking off to get a bucket...milk a cow...fish up some herring...then tried that. Still...no deal. The cat seemed sort of interested in the fish (not the milk), but still it wasn't quite right. I could not figure out what the deal was. Ended up the cat like a sort of "herbed" fish that was rubbed in a strange herb I found in the cat's owner's backyard. heh
I haven't seen quests that made you actually think....for a while now.....like....YEARS. Also...damn near everything in the game is clickable, explorable, searchable....sometimes you find things. I was chopping down a tree and a bird's nest fell out of it. I could have just tossed it, but...I decided to see what was in it first. Inside the nest was an egg and a sapphire ring! Whodathunkit? lol
So my answer to the OP question is.....yes.....and definitely no. Yes, in that I love the beautiful graphics, especially if there is a huge world to explore. I love the immersion of "living" in that alternate place for a few hours. BUT....having said that....there is more importance placed on graphics in some games than there is on gameplay. And that.....is getting very old to me. If I'm a crafter, when I'm crafting...I want to "feel like" I'm crafting and not just hitting a button and blammo....out comes item A, B, or C. EQ2, Vanguard, Fallen Earth, and Runescape are all different ways of facilitating that "feeling" for me. Most other games are not. And the problem solving, thought-provoking quests, well......the new games need to go BACK to that a bit, I think. I would really like to see the classic "kill ten rats" thing minimized....a LOT.
And another thing.....the holy trinity deal. MMOs today do NOT give you enough choices in ANYthing. EQ started a lot of the things, actually, that I see as problems, at least for me. I loved the freedom in UO (and in Runescape) or being able to mold your character EXACTLY HOW YOU WANT. No set classes....just a lot of freedom. I realize that pre-defining classes serves a purpose, BUT....it's not fun any more. It becomes VERY dull when every game has 8 set classes and most of them are the same from game to game. Blah. GIVE US MORE CHOICES and FREEDOM, please!
TL:DR VERSION: I want quests that require thinking. I want problem solving quests. I want more freedom and choices, including in classes. Skill based systems offer more choices and freedom.
I would like older game systems with some of the features from todays games.
And, personally, I think todays games are too simple. Too few options available to the player.
Any choices we 'think' we have are made based off of mathematical calculation for DPS (or heals/threat, etc.,..). They aren't made for your play style.... and this, really, is disappointing. It creates a system where EVERYONE that plays class x will look the same way, have the same stats, etc.,.. at the end of their characters progression path.
I play WoW now. I've played it a long time. I won't kick the game in the teeth, but it lacks a lot.
I used to play SWG. I miss so much about that game and wish it were brought into WoW.
I kind of feel 'cheated' when I play a new game and it doesn't have some of the features that I enjoyed in a previous game. I almost expect game dev's to learn from one another in some regard and NOT attempt to reinvent the wheel. Just build a better vehicle around the wheel.
I don't want 'clones'... but if each clone were better than the last... why not?
Instead... it feels like we are going the other way. Ever increasing degree of simplicity... lack of choice.
Not really, I think games have catered far to much to the solo players. Which has really killed the community of most games. Also more games cater to the greed factor that comes with instancing. Dont get me wrong allowing for some solo play is good thing to have also Instancing if done correctly can be great for story telling. The way Age of Conan did this at the early levels was a great way to have both.
I personally believe some of the new UIs are nice But would love to see more open worlds (much like Vanguard but done better). That promote not only some questing but exploration of the world. I mean I think back to Vanguard and EQ1 where You would just lose yourself out in the world and find adventure that was not part of any path.. I cant remember the name of the dwarven ruins in Vanguard that were just sitting WAY off the beaten track.. There were really no quests taking you there.. But if you managed to find the place there were some quests inside, and the dungeon was HUGE. It made the world feel more maassive and real.
Games these days are almost all themepark. Most people never leave the path the game takes them in. Which while I love a good story and glad they are promoting lore, I also think giving other options besides doing some great campaign quest could be nice fillerl. Also I miss things like Roaming mobs that dont just roam in the exact same path. But I imagine something more along the lines of EQ1 roaming mobs. Where you could be hunting orcs when suddenly a hill giant comes up behind you.
One last thing that I have absolutely started to hate about all the games that have launched lately, are the GO OUT AND KILL X number of mobs quests. I looke back to the way Guildwars 1 handled this and wish other developers would have taken their route.. The ways guildwars did it. With just giving a buff if you killed a certain type of mob while in an area you would gain either a XP bonus or a gold bonus. No going back to some quest giver to get an xp reward. No keeping track of pointless quests. YOu would walk into an area with an NPC saying hey we are having issues killing MOB type.. Kill those mobs while in the area and benifit extra. It was simple it worked and it kept you from having to keep track of so many pointless quests but gave you bonus in the process.
Just give me an MMORPG, with a virtual world, that has combat mechanics, and character progression like Mount and Blade. Graphics and smooth animations like WoW - only better. Game play like single player Age of Empires mixed with questing like WoW. Throw in a good crafting system. Great guild management tools. Oh and the Tumerok race from AC2 - gotta have Tummies. Mix it all together and toss it into a sandbox and I'll be a happy gamer. ^_^
I don't think really, we have just tons more of the same things we had 10 years ago. Also the hardware of today is lightyears ahead of the gaming software, someone is gonna have to bite the bullet and start utilizing the hardware and not worry about the people still playing on there 10 year old dell desktop. in a sense, if you build it, they will come .
hahaha, They built it and no one showed up!
Couldent agree more. The games that do it diffrently struggle time and time again. The games that offer the same old, on a strudy and lower tech level, thrive. In case you havent noticed, people chose stability and gameplay over top notch graphics.
Your basically asking someone to invest hundreds of millions of dollars (you want the best technology to be use right) on a game that 5-10% of the playerbase can use (best technology) AND you want it to be diffrent (proven track record of low returns)...oh and you want near perfection im sure.
Sure ill just get right on that.
If people weren't so cheap and cough up a extra $400-600 when buying a pc that wouldnt have problems running higher end games, I have a mid-level gaming computer that I spent only 850$ on built it myself and I have no problem running any game what so ever, time for people to man up and dump the dinosaurs they have in their living rooms and bedrroms if they want to partpicate in PC gaming down the road.
Comments
Mostly happy...
There is so much I miss from the first wave of MMORPGS... And I might be, I KNOW I am in the minority. I miss waiting for the boat, I miss trying to find a wizard to gate me where I needed to be, all of that crap.
Having said that, I am more than 10 years older now and do not have the time to sit and wait for a 45 minute experience...the boat...
I do love the accesibility of games nowadays, but the old bull in me wants another EQ-esque world, Vanguard hit it for me, but I have been gone for so long....
Oh, and I can't spell accesibility.... Or esque...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Thanks for replying to that whatever it is. I was just about to send a reply too but then you posted [Thank God].
The words you used; fallacy and strawman, reveal your darkest secrets however!
You are a sceptic and you read http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/
Sorry, bad joke I guess. >.>
I really wouldnt call the last few years of the genre an evolution as nothing really evolved. The game play is the same, just a tad bit more streamlined.
If anything I would say the last few years the genre has plateued as new ideas and 'trying something different' has been replaced with 'let's copy what Bob did... but add a slight twist to it...'
Now it seems they are more interested in evolving the payment/revenue models than they are in evolving the gameplay itself.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Any news on any of these, you would like to share,what about this one ?
Personally I feel that MMO's have lost alot of the Massive and the Multiplayer parts of the game. Mainstream MMO game worlds feel linear and when I talk about multiplayer Im mainly talk about Travel and Lack there of Community pride. With Quick Travel you lose and sense of the Massive world and you miss out on the experience of actually just meeting people as you go, also with games like War and Wow just making you queue in lines for Bg, Sc, and Dungeons you lose a sense of community when your just thrown in with a group of people and thrown out at the end of the Bg, Sc, or dungeon.
Also it seems like newer MMO's seem to be focusing on the Soloing experience which seems weird, If I want to Solo Ill go play a single player game.
I think there are very few new creative ideas. All the companies go after creating big world with a lot of grinding because they see less risk. I really hope some companies start to produce some better and more creative mmorpgs.
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Completely dissatisfied, personally.
I don't think there's been a single MMORPG released since 2003 that I could really get into.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
There have been a lot of boundaries pushed that I greatly respect in their own right, but which have yet to come together to produce a better overall game.
One game with great character customization, one game with a superb advancement system, one game with excellent role-playing features, one game with unparalleled graphics, and so on... but on their own, each game is nothing special. The mutations die out. Need more interbreeding.
Not really. There isn't that much difference from my first game, Meridian 59, and the modern games.
The combat is more or less the same as it was then and while have seen some good new ideas, like the guildcity of AoC most are still the same and the things that have evolved is mostly fluff.
The fact that almost every game uses the same mechanics is really the problem as I see it.Why can't anybody make a MMO based on Runequest instead of D&D? There is nothing really wrong with the mechanics, it works but when all games are more or less the same, why bother to change to another?
But it seems like some creativity is finally coming now. I hope that World of darkness online will open up a lot more, and GW 2 is also on the right way.
Doing everything like before but adding better graphics and making the game easier is not something that can last forever, and it is the reason no one have been able to get as many subs as Wow, there is not much reason to change since the rest of the games are so similar.
There is room in the game for old fashioned MMOs but there must also be some that thinks outside the box or the MMOs will sooner or later start to die. And borrowing a few good features from other games just is not enough anymore.
MMORPG's don't really evolve into better MMORPG's.
They seem to evolve into better online RPG's.
The whole genre is still looking for a clear direction.
Wow really? Runequest? Amazing, first time I have ever heard someone mention that rpg on these forums. Runequest is definitely different and quite the rpg!
I’m not satisfied with how they evolved or how they started. I started with MUDs and no MMO has matched my MUD experience.
My MUD experience was:
Out of this world eventual perma death hands trembling edge of your seat pvp.
RP enforced player interaction with GM RP interaction.
GM run guilds with RP enforce tryouts to join.
Insane guild vs guild pvp.
My MMO experience:
Boring level grind
Boring pvp
No RP.
I just love trolls who make baseless posts like this. "Every MMO out is a WoW Clone. DO I have anything evidence to back this up? Nope. Its a WoW Clone I dont have to prove that its similar to WoW its still a clone."
Jusr cause its a MMO doesnt make it a WoW Clone. Come up with a real reason why you think MMO havent evolved. Oh wait you cant your so fixated on every mmo out being a WoW Clone.
MMO's have evolved From Text Based to Graphics to Evolving worlds that use Phasing to show the passage of time and events happening that you have a part of. If it wasnt for games like Guild Wars and LOTRO we would be stuck doing "KIll X Number of Y for XP and Gold" from level 1 to level 400. Its just that the evolution of the genre is to slow to see it grow. Some might say its of fear of spending the big bucks to make it. I say its cause the Big Name Companies are looking at the ones out and seeing what works and what doesnt. 10 years ago if someone told me companies like Blizzard, BioWare, and Interplay where going to make online games I would of said they were insane. Now look where we are Blizzard has the biggest MMO name BioWare has started making a Star Wars MMO and Interplay has started making a MMO based off one of the best SciFi CRPG titles ever Fallout Online. There is only one way for the MMO genre to go and that is up.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
How complete falacy is this. There were casuals in old mmorpgs and hardcores. People are just so selective in what they see.. I see people playing so much WoW and citing its casual its such a joke their sheer contradiction. Just like Eve Online. People cite the casualness of that. I got a friend who is basically always on that..
I'm more saddened at how communities have evolved.
Yes there were casual gamers in the old mmorpg's but if you wanted to get anywherew you had to be a power gamer. Only the power gamer(aka hardcore gamer) had the best weapons best equipment because they poured more time in to the game. You can try to deny this but it is true. Before WoW came out if you were a casual gamer you could never join the 40 man raids because you didnt have the equipment to join. Because of Blizzard and WoW major game companies are now paying attention to the casual gamer, naking it easier for those who only have 2-4 hours of game time a day to play. You cry falacy at this but it is the truth you need to open your eyes to see it.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was good enough, for me.
- Good innovative combat, great class system
- Huge gameworld with an extreme amount of quests
- Amazing viewing distances
Sadly it died from lack of players.
Also, theres a lot of areas where Vanguard could be improved:
- Wellmade PvP
- Dynamic Gameworld (environment changes over time, quests are templates that get implemented at random places, if you kill a mob somewhere theres nothing to be found at that place for some time etc)
- Player driven gameworld (players can conquer, build etc)
- Good handling of changing player counts
P.s.: The only MMO I'm looking forward to is SWTOR, because that could be a different game. Otherwise I'm underwhelmed by the options offered in the future. There is definitely nothing made that could replace Vanguard.
I don't like current MMOs. Older MMORPGs were built as worlds where players can interact, today MMORPGs are built as RPGs. Every new MMO is more and more instanced and put in small themepark areas without any exploration whatsoever, just to justify the "storyline". Part of it is caused by graphics - make no mistake, WoW could have been photorealistic, but by going for lowpoly stylized setting, in the time AoC devs make 1 character model, WoW can pump five models. In effect, you have much more content, making the world "big".
I also wonder why so few MMOs have seamless worlds. How fun is it to have roads between zones and unclimbable mountains, because you have to accomodate a loading screen somewhere
Third thing I don't enjoy in new MMOs is lack of open world PvP. I am not saying arenas/battlegrounds are bad, but open warfare bulids a community in a strange way, creating funny guild drama. Look at EVE money scams or WoW funeral event, people discuss this even today in youtube comments, lots of people joined the game just because of that, because it shows you what game designers call "emergent gameplay" - completely unscripted event that happened because of relations between players.
Fourth thing I am bothered with is connected to themeparking - I launched WoW trial two weeks ago just for fun to see how the game changed last time I played. Before, quests told you to go "north and climb the mountain to the top". Today, you don't care , you just look at the map because you have a big marker "GO QUEST HERE" on the map
where's the fun of exploration, looking for that damn cave which you can't find :P
that said, I am looking forward to incoming MMOs and I hope they will bring something new and positive to the genre. I know I will be playing GW2, I would also play Rift, but payment model puts me off.
This question is pretty timely for me, actually.
I started my MMO experiences with UO (same as a lot of people). But prior to that I played a lot of single player RPGs (my favorite was Planescape Torment) and adventure games (starting with Myst and including such great titles as the Gabriel Knight series, the Broken Sword series, and the Monkey Island games, of course...among many others like Grim Fandango, which was a complete brain work out...god what a great game that was). What I see now....that had not occured to me before....is what I finally realized to be the thing I have found so lacking in modern MMOs that the older games had. Not just the older MMOs, but the older games in all of those genres......problem solving. Puzzles, for lack of a better word. Not puzzles like Bejeweled...casual connect 3 type stuff...but thought puzzles.
Lately I've started playing Runescape, which I had never played for more than a few days before, because I found the graphics rather...blah...and it kept me from getting into it. They have changed a LOT graphically, but otherwise, as well. But what I've found I'm most ENJOYING has nothing to do with good or "bad" graphics, but rather with opportunities to solve problems and to THINK without being told what to do every step of the way. Older games used to have that too, and I had forgotten how much I loved it.
For instance....there was a quest where you had to go get this lady's cat back for her. It had run off. You had to figure out where it was, figure out how to "convince it" to return with you and not claw your eyes out. The quest did not tell you how to go about doing any of that. It gave you an idea of the area the cat might be in...and that was all. So I went to find it....tried to pick it up to take it back...and it wouldn't do anything but hiss and scratch at me. Anyway...weak example of what I'm talking about, BUT...I ended up trekking off to get a bucket...milk a cow...fish up some herring...then tried that. Still...no deal. The cat seemed sort of interested in the fish (not the milk), but still it wasn't quite right. I could not figure out what the deal was. Ended up the cat like a sort of "herbed" fish that was rubbed in a strange herb I found in the cat's owner's backyard. heh
I haven't seen quests that made you actually think....for a while now.....like....YEARS. Also...damn near everything in the game is clickable, explorable, searchable....sometimes you find things. I was chopping down a tree and a bird's nest fell out of it. I could have just tossed it, but...I decided to see what was in it first. Inside the nest was an egg and a sapphire ring! Whodathunkit? lol
So my answer to the OP question is.....yes.....and definitely no. Yes, in that I love the beautiful graphics, especially if there is a huge world to explore. I love the immersion of "living" in that alternate place for a few hours. BUT....having said that....there is more importance placed on graphics in some games than there is on gameplay. And that.....is getting very old to me. If I'm a crafter, when I'm crafting...I want to "feel like" I'm crafting and not just hitting a button and blammo....out comes item A, B, or C. EQ2, Vanguard, Fallen Earth, and Runescape are all different ways of facilitating that "feeling" for me. Most other games are not. And the problem solving, thought-provoking quests, well......the new games need to go BACK to that a bit, I think. I would really like to see the classic "kill ten rats" thing minimized....a LOT.
And another thing.....the holy trinity deal. MMOs today do NOT give you enough choices in ANYthing. EQ started a lot of the things, actually, that I see as problems, at least for me. I loved the freedom in UO (and in Runescape) or being able to mold your character EXACTLY HOW YOU WANT. No set classes....just a lot of freedom. I realize that pre-defining classes serves a purpose, BUT....it's not fun any more. It becomes VERY dull when every game has 8 set classes and most of them are the same from game to game. Blah. GIVE US MORE CHOICES and FREEDOM, please!
TL:DR VERSION: I want quests that require thinking. I want problem solving quests. I want more freedom and choices, including in classes. Skill based systems offer more choices and freedom.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I would like older game systems with some of the features from todays games.
And, personally, I think todays games are too simple. Too few options available to the player.
Any choices we 'think' we have are made based off of mathematical calculation for DPS (or heals/threat, etc.,..). They aren't made for your play style.... and this, really, is disappointing. It creates a system where EVERYONE that plays class x will look the same way, have the same stats, etc.,.. at the end of their characters progression path.
I play WoW now. I've played it a long time. I won't kick the game in the teeth, but it lacks a lot.
I used to play SWG. I miss so much about that game and wish it were brought into WoW.
I kind of feel 'cheated' when I play a new game and it doesn't have some of the features that I enjoyed in a previous game. I almost expect game dev's to learn from one another in some regard and NOT attempt to reinvent the wheel. Just build a better vehicle around the wheel.
I don't want 'clones'... but if each clone were better than the last... why not?
Instead... it feels like we are going the other way. Ever increasing degree of simplicity... lack of choice.
This.
That's why I think most MMOs pretty much fail due to it and still studios keep oozing out these dumbed down holdhand games.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Not really, I think games have catered far to much to the solo players. Which has really killed the community of most games. Also more games cater to the greed factor that comes with instancing. Dont get me wrong allowing for some solo play is good thing to have also Instancing if done correctly can be great for story telling. The way Age of Conan did this at the early levels was a great way to have both.
I personally believe some of the new UIs are nice But would love to see more open worlds (much like Vanguard but done better). That promote not only some questing but exploration of the world. I mean I think back to Vanguard and EQ1 where You would just lose yourself out in the world and find adventure that was not part of any path.. I cant remember the name of the dwarven ruins in Vanguard that were just sitting WAY off the beaten track.. There were really no quests taking you there.. But if you managed to find the place there were some quests inside, and the dungeon was HUGE. It made the world feel more maassive and real.
Games these days are almost all themepark. Most people never leave the path the game takes them in. Which while I love a good story and glad they are promoting lore, I also think giving other options besides doing some great campaign quest could be nice fillerl. Also I miss things like Roaming mobs that dont just roam in the exact same path. But I imagine something more along the lines of EQ1 roaming mobs. Where you could be hunting orcs when suddenly a hill giant comes up behind you.
One last thing that I have absolutely started to hate about all the games that have launched lately, are the GO OUT AND KILL X number of mobs quests. I looke back to the way Guildwars 1 handled this and wish other developers would have taken their route.. The ways guildwars did it. With just giving a buff if you killed a certain type of mob while in an area you would gain either a XP bonus or a gold bonus. No going back to some quest giver to get an xp reward. No keeping track of pointless quests. YOu would walk into an area with an NPC saying hey we are having issues killing MOB type.. Kill those mobs while in the area and benifit extra. It was simple it worked and it kept you from having to keep track of so many pointless quests but gave you bonus in the process.
Just give me an MMORPG, with a virtual world, that has combat mechanics, and character progression like Mount and Blade. Graphics and smooth animations like WoW - only better. Game play like single player Age of Empires mixed with questing like WoW. Throw in a good crafting system. Great guild management tools. Oh and the Tumerok race from AC2 - gotta have Tummies.
Mix it all together and toss it into a sandbox and I'll be a happy gamer. ^_^
Evolved? Evolved from a monthly fee game with updates and paid expansions to monthly fee PLUS lottery type or cash shop type business models? No.
If people weren't so cheap and cough up a extra $400-600 when buying a pc that wouldnt have problems running higher end games, I have a mid-level gaming computer that I spent only 850$ on built it myself and I have no problem running any game what so ever, time for people to man up and dump the dinosaurs they have in their living rooms and bedrroms if they want to partpicate in PC gaming down the road.