To all the people saying is ment to be played with controler only.

Uldah

Have any of you actually got into a party post lv 15-20?. I played ffxi and the only reason you could actually play with a controler, is becouse there was a time all you needed to do was auto atack.And in the mean time you would be scrolling down to the next macro to use, while the others were at cool down.Without auto atack wth do i do while i scroll down to the next ability? stand still doing nothin ?

So could one of you please explain to me how am i supoused to press my normal atack action that is at the start of my bar when i have 8+ skills that i have to keep pressing at the end of the bar?

The no auto atack definetly KILLS controler game play , i played a gladi and is literally imposible to perform on a party with a controler.I had to switch to a keyboard or wouldnt be able to have an action ready everytime my stamina bar was up, especially trying to keep voking and gard up.Maybe is a problem with gladi, idk.

Maybe im just slow, or my controler skills suck, but i just cant perform well with a controler after you have 10skills +. Keyboard only work fine.

PS; im actually worried becouse i loved playing with a controler on ffxi, i tryed puting skills on bars below, made macros , etc. Still is just not fast enough.I got a feeling i will be playing on ps with a keyboard as well. Tsk tsk.Well im going to bed ill check answers tomorow.

Wolfenpride

And that is one of the reasons I refuse to buy a gamepad

Keyboard and mouse works fine if your good with it, arguably better when you situations like yours into consideration. Much more easier to coordinate attacks when you don't have to scroll through the attack bar.

Raxeon

i can play fine with keyboard and mouse

MisterSr

I've always played with a keyboard and mouse, but gamepad works great as well. You just have to be agile with selecting skills, it takes a different kind of effort. They're both efficient, it's just depending on what you are used to really. In beta I am using pad, but at release once hardware mouse is installed I plan to go back to mouse. 

Belarion

I knew increasing the combat speed would have detrimental affects for gamepad users, and strategy will suffer as well , in the name of "better combat". Also making the mouse input faster is going to give even more advantage to the m/k users, which wont even be the biggest part of the userbase.

 

alas,

geldonyetich

Originally posted by Raxeon

i can play fine with keyboard and mouse

It think I depends on what you mean by "keyboard and mouse."

If by that you mean you're used to using cursors to quickly navigate the menus, maybe pull the mouse out when you scroll your camera (although IJKL is easier) select targets (although tabbing may be quicker in most situations) or scroll your inventory, that's fine.

If by that you mean you use your mouse for absolutely everything, and only use your keyboard for movement, you're probably going to be miserable.

Although some respite is coming because they're finally turning on the hardware mouse in release.  (There's been a workaround available for awhile, but all it did was flip the bit they didn't flip themselves.)

Isane

Originally posted by Belarion

I knew increasing the combat speed would have detrimental affects for gamepad users, and strategy will suffer as well , in the name of "better combat". Also making the mouse input faster is going to give even more advantage to the m/k users, which wont even be the biggest part of the userbase.

 

alas,

Its PvE it's not that fast paced it really does not matter.

Belarion

Originally posted by Isane

Originally posted by Belarion

I knew increasing the combat speed would have detrimental affects for gamepad users, and strategy will suffer as well , in the name of "better combat". Also making the mouse input faster is going to give even more advantage to the m/k users, which wont even be the biggest part of the userbase.

 

alas,

Its PvE it's not that fast paced it really does not matter.

u dont think so?

I hope not, gear and ability makes sense, but for someone to tell me im not clicking fast enough while in a party, hehe.

 

Does anyone use a gamepad past lvl 12 or w/e? Is it decent, its onnly a  10 options to click thorugh is it really that difficult?

adam_nox

there are solutions to this, doubt SE will think of them on their own though. 

It's a mistake to have a row of abilities though, or at least more than 5 that you use on a regular basis.

Azorith

Controllers do make some functionality easier but moving over to the 7th skill in the bar does take longer than pressing 7. Wrokarounds are to set macros and bind macro buttons.

Hell, even with a keyboard I have to do workarounds though. For any MMO I set my keyboard up with 1-6, shift 1-6, ctrl 1-6, q, e, z, x, c, r, f, g as the action bar keys. Then it continues with extra mouse buttons. Doing that my hand never has to leave my home keys (wasd).

Murugan

I don't care what anyone who spends 200 bucks on peripherals says Keyboard centric will always be the superior way to play any MMO because you simply have more combinations at your fingertips.  WASD+IJKL is an evolution in keyboard centric playing because you have easier access to the majority of the keyboard on your standard keyboard (as opposed to those gaming keyboards some people use).  Then again I type faster than most people so this might be why I'm so familiar with keyboard layouts.

 

I've also used a mouse for the majority of actions in XIV (I have a friend who has mapped everything to his mouse) but that was mainly due to wanting to drink or do something else at the same time, if I wanted to get serious about an encounter I'd switch back to keyboard.

 

Also for the OP's problem the simple solution is to remember that you can scroll both ways (as it wraps), so you are never that far from anything on your action bar.  I use this to enter battle regiment mode as the G key currently doesn't work to actually enter the mode, you have to use the icon.

Uldah

Originally posted by Murugan

I don't care what anyone who spends 200 bucks on peripherals says Keyboard centric will always be the superior way to play any MMO because you simply have more combinations at your fingertips.  WASD+IJKL is an evolution in keyboard centric playing because you have easier access to the majority of the keyboard on your standard keyboard (as opposed to those gaming keyboards some people use).  Then again I type faster than most people so this might be why I'm so familiar with keyboard layouts.

 

I've also used a mouse for the majority of actions in XIV (I have a friend who has mapped everything to his mouse) but that was mainly due to wanting to drink or do something else at the same time, if I wanted to get serious about an encounter I'd switch back to keyboard.

 

Also for the OP's problem the simple solution is to remember that you can scroll both ways (as it wraps), so you are never that far from anything on your action bar.  I use this to enter battle regiment mode as the G key currently doesn't work to actually enter the mode, you have to use the icon.

I dont think people have even tryed to tank on a 20ish group when i see the replys i get here,Comon i been playing ffxi for around 7 years with a controller, and theres just no way this game can be played with a controler correctly.Also to whoever said you dont need to perform since theres no pvp, clearly you have never in your life played a good and challenging PvE mmo.Is notat all about stats and leet gear, is about knowing what to do when to do it, and fast enough so your team dont die.

It was literally imposible to do, to many abilities are ready about the same time, I scroll both ways but still theres a long delay since u cant activate it automaticly, is a complete diferent thin to solo and to party when your playing an important role(ie,tank healer). The diference in performance makes a huge diference.

All i can say is unless theres somethin im mising here , if you whant to be good in your group you better start geting used to using keyboard only, this is nothin like ffxi controler layout.At all.

Actually you know the macro bars scrolls like the hotbar should, but you have to hold the button down, and it doesnt save it were you left it , so is even worse as well than ffxi . My whole point is that everyone saying the game is done around a controler, well , it might be.but is not working as intended as far as i have seen, not near a keyboard performance by a long shot , becouse apart from confort controler fails to meet all my expectations, at the very least the way it was in beta, theres just no way i can play it with a controler in its current state once you start doing hard stuf.All they have to do is make it like ffxi, loose the hotbar that scrolls like shit, put instead the macro bars, and we have a win -win situation.The people who disliked ffxi for the controls(or most of them) wouldnt play this anyways imo, since the combat pace and the UI is really similar.So why making it harder with a hotbar? you didnt need one on ffxi and hell you dont need 1 on ffxiv eighter.Just make the macros work exactly like they did on ffxi, speed/scroll wise( while i still think even then the lack of auto atack and the short cool down on most abilities would make it even more dificult than the predesesor anyways for controler users).

Well few days untill my CE version arrives, i have my controler ready to give it another spin, maybe not so bad at release.

Void425

At the start of open beta a controller was the only real viable option.  Now I would say a keyboard/mouse is just as good as a controller.  Everyone should play with whichever method they enjoy.

Uldah

Originally posted by Void425

At the start of open beta a controller was the only real viable option.  Now I would say a keyboard/mouse is just as good as a controller.  Everyone should play with whichever method they enjoy.

Not arguing that, but what im trying to get at is performance,i am by no means parting with a tank or a healer than cant voke/heal fast enough.The same would be expected from me when im playing this said roles, and so far i have failed myserably when using a controler when on the other hand i have done without problems when using a keyboard only.

Take note i am a controller lover.

Void425

Originally posted by Uldah

Originally posted by Void425

At the start of open beta a controller was the only real viable option.  Now I would say a keyboard/mouse is just as good as a controller.  Everyone should play with whichever method they enjoy.

Not arguing that, but what im trying to get at is performance,i am by no means parting with a tank or a healer than cant voke/heal fast enough.The same would be expected from me when im playing this said roles, and so far i have failed myserably when using a controler when on the other hand i have done without problems when using a keyboard only.

Take note i am a controller lover.

I think it all comes down to muscle memory.  Each person's brain can function on two types of brain patterns.

With Keyboard and Mouse your brain has to memorize and process many different keystrokes but each has to only be pressed once. (example to Heal its   Cntr + 4,  Casting flame is Cnrl + 2 )

With a Controller there is less keys to press, but your brain has to memorize how many time to do each sequence to get the same action.  (example....to Heal press  X then press right 4 times, then X again...... .....if you want to cast flame press x, right 2 times, X again)

Do you prefer memorizing more keys, or would you prefer memorizing same keys just a sequence?

No matter which one you choose you will build muscle memory for your pattern and in the end it wont matter.

Uldah

Originally posted by Void425

Originally posted by Uldah

Originally posted by Void425

At the start of open beta a controller was the only real viable option.  Now I would say a keyboard/mouse is just as good as a controller.  Everyone should play with whichever method they enjoy.

Not arguing that, but what im trying to get at is performance,i am by no means parting with a tank or a healer than cant voke/heal fast enough.The same would be expected from me when im playing this said roles, and so far i have failed myserably when using a controler when on the other hand i have done without problems when using a keyboard only.

Take note i am a controller lover.

I think it all comes down to muscle memory.  Each person's brain can function on two types of brain patterns.

With Keyboard and Mouse your brain has to memorize and process many different keystrokes but each has to only be pressed once. (example to Heal its   Cntr + 4,  Casting flame is Cnrl + 2 )

With a Controller there is less keys to press, but your brain has to memorize how many time to do each sequence to get the same action.  (example....to Heal press  X then press right 4 times, then X again...... .....if you want to cast flame press x, right 2 times, X again)

Do you prefer memorizing more keys, or would you prefer memorizing same keys just a sequence?

No matter which one you choose you will build muscle memory for your pattern and in the end it wont matter.

I dont think your geting my point.

My point is it takes u 1sec to press a key on the keyboard , while if the cool down from2-3 skills on a controler it takes you 3 more second for each skill to scroll down to each and activate them.In ffxi the cool down of abilities was quite longer so this wasnt such a problem. In here the cooldown from most usefull abilities overlap, so they are ready around the same time, hence you loose precious time scrolling from 1 to 6 when it done quickly by pressing 1 and 6.

if FFXIV is anythin like FFXI, those 3 sec diference for each ability can mean the diference between succes and a wype.Hell how many times i  have had experienced this.

Raxeon

Originally posted by geldonyetich

Originally posted by Raxeon

i can play fine with keyboard and mouse

It think I depends on what you mean by "keyboard and mouse."

If by that you mean you're used to using cursors to quickly navigate the menus, maybe pull the mouse out when you scroll your camera (although IJKL is easier) select targets (although tabbing may be quicker in most situations) or scroll your inventory, that's fine.

If by that you mean you use your mouse for absolutely everything, and only use your keyboard for movement, you're probably going to be miserable.

Although some respite is coming because they're finally turning on the hardware mouse in release.  (There's been a workaround available for awhile, but all it did was flip the bit they didn't flip themselves.)

 o not for everything movemeants and stuff

Void425

Originally posted by Uldah

Originally posted by Void425

Originally posted by Uldah

Originally posted by Void425

At the start of open beta a controller was the only real viable option.  Now I would say a keyboard/mouse is just as good as a controller.  Everyone should play with whichever method they enjoy.

Not arguing that, but what im trying to get at is performance,i am by no means parting with a tank or a healer than cant voke/heal fast enough.The same would be expected from me when im playing this said roles, and so far i have failed myserably when using a controler when on the other hand i have done without problems when using a keyboard only.

Take note i am a controller lover.

I think it all comes down to muscle memory.  Each person's brain can function on two types of brain patterns.

With Keyboard and Mouse your brain has to memorize and process many different keystrokes but each has to only be pressed once. (example to Heal its   Cntr + 4,  Casting flame is Cnrl + 2 )

With a Controller there is less keys to press, but your brain has to memorize how many time to do each sequence to get the same action.  (example....to Heal press  X then press right 4 times, then X again...... .....if you want to cast flame press x, right 2 times, X again)

Do you prefer memorizing more keys, or would you prefer memorizing same keys just a sequence?

No matter which one you choose you will build muscle memory for your pattern and in the end it wont matter.

I dont think your geting my point.

My point is it takes u 1sec to press a key on the keyboard , while if the cool down from2-3 skills on a controler it takes you 3 more second for each skill to scroll down to each and activate them.

I understand where you are coming from right now.  No one has had time to really perfect there muscle memory for playing.

It takes a certain amount of time to  move your hands on the keyboard to the correct key, and do the keypress.

I expect it to be about equal to the time it would take you to press the controller button a few times in a row if you already knew how many times you needed to press it.  

The time saved not moving your hands into the new position because of using a controller is balanced out by the extra number of times you need to press the button.

 

Of course, if the UI menu interface can not keep up with how fast you press the buttons, then that is a problem in itself.  Thats a UI problem and not actually a keyboard/mouse vs Controller problem.

Uldah

Originally posted by Void425

Originally posted by Uldah

Originally posted by Void425

Originally posted by Uldah

Originally posted by Void425

At the start of open beta a controller was the only real viable option.  Now I would say a keyboard/mouse is just as good as a controller.  Everyone should play with whichever method they enjoy.

Not arguing that, but what im trying to get at is performance,i am by no means parting with a tank or a healer than cant voke/heal fast enough.The same would be expected from me when im playing this said roles, and so far i have failed myserably when using a controler when on the other hand i have done without problems when using a keyboard only.

Take note i am a controller lover.

I think it all comes down to muscle memory.  Each person's brain can function on two types of brain patterns.

With Keyboard and Mouse your brain has to memorize and process many different keystrokes but each has to only be pressed once. (example to Heal its   Cntr + 4,  Casting flame is Cnrl + 2 )

With a Controller there is less keys to press, but your brain has to memorize how many time to do each sequence to get the same action.  (example....to Heal press  X then press right 4 times, then X again...... .....if you want to cast flame press x, right 2 times, X again)

Do you prefer memorizing more keys, or would you prefer memorizing same keys just a sequence?

No matter which one you choose you will build muscle memory for your pattern and in the end it wont matter.

I dont think your geting my point.

My point is it takes u 1sec to press a key on the keyboard , while if the cool down from2-3 skills on a controler it takes you 3 more second for each skill to scroll down to each and activate them.

I understand where you are coming from right now.  No one has had time to really perfect there muscle memory for playing.

It takes a certain amount of time to  move your hands on the keyboard to the correct key, and do the keypress.

I expect it to be about equal to the time it would take you to press the controller button a few times in a row if you already knew how many times you needed to press it.  

The time saved not moving your hands into the new position because of using a controller is balanced out by the extra number of times you need to press the button.

 

Of course, if the UI menu interface can not keep up with how fast you press the buttons, then that is a problem in itself.  Thats a UI problem and not actually a keyboard/mouse vs Controller problem.

I dont know how else to explain it, is not muscle memory, i played ffxi for years and im used to this layout, but the hotbard , the fast cool down and the way macros hotbar is now makes it Not good for performing correctly on sticky or hard situations , at all with a controler.

I would agree with you that is a whole wide problem , but i dont have this problem with the keyboard, even tought i prefer to use the controler. The problem is not many people have experienced to have to group as a glad to put an example when the whole party depends on you, and that your fast enough to keep hate and keep yourself alive .In that situations every second makes a diference.

Is why i keep reading the " you must play with a controler crap", when tbh this is just so far from the actual truth.

This of course could change on release, but im basing my argument on what i have experienced on the beta.

holdenhamlet

It will probably get better once they fix UI lag.

I used to play red mage in ffxi with a controller and was constantly casting (refreshes, debuffs, nukes).  I didn't use macros so I was constantly scrolling through menus.  Something like magic-whitemagic-paralzye, selectpartymember-magic-whitemagic-refresh, selecttarget-magic-blackmagic-gravity and so on and so forth, and I never missed a beat.  Surely scrolling two icons over should be faster.

When the UI is responsive, you can scroll around and have the next thing ready by the time the first finishes.

The problem now isn't the UI I don't believe, but the lagginess, which was promised to be worked on by release and fixed by release or shortly afterwards.

Uldah

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

It will probably get better once they fix UI lag.

I used to play red mage in ffxi with a controller and was constantly casting (refreshes, debuffs, nukes).  I didn't use macros so I was constantly scrolling through menus.  Something like magic-whitemagic-paralzye, selectpartymember-magic-whitemagic-refresh, selecttarget-magic-blackmagic-gravity and so on and so forth, and I never missed a beat.  Surely scrolling two icons over should be faster.

When the UI is responsive, you can scroll around and have the next thing ready by the time the first finishes.

The problem now isn't the UI I don't believe, but the lagginess, which was promised to be worked on by release and fixed by release or shortly afterwards.

I really hope you are correct becouse i prefer controler over anythin becouse of confort and i play extensive periods of time , dont whanna end up with my hand mest up.

Well , 2-3 more days my CE should be arriving so lets see just what diference does it make for controler usage.

PS, on a side note , No macros on  rdm ? no ele staves for each debuf ? blasfemy.Sorry im coming as an elitis prick , .

But this is exactly what i mean , rdm on end game to be at 100% performance( as well as any other job, needed gear swap, and for that you need macros.)

Of course on the chill out sessions it wont matter, but what i think is when you actually need 150% out of performance is when controler is gonna decay here unless they fix some of the problems i pointed out.Becouse you dont experience this problems with a keyboard or with a controler in ffxi.

Void425

Have you tried the Regimens in a group yet?  When you use the Regimens your actions are not executed until everyone else selected there action for the round.  Doing this leaves your action bar full without even performing actions until every picks one.  Even with this delay the power of the Regimens is not something you want to pass up because of there overwhelming power.  When you get a really great group together that knows how to do them correctly you wont even watch your action bar anymore or worry about it.

Uldah

Originally posted by Void425

Have you tried the Regimens in a group yet?  When you use the Regimens your actions are not executed until everyone else selected there action for the round.  Doing this leaves your action bar full without even performing actions until every picks one.  Even with this delay the power of the Regimens is not something you want to pass up because of there overwhelming power.  When you get a really great group together that knows how to do them correctly you wont even watch your action bar anymore or worry about it.

Oh i have and is just not worth it the way it is now. and you cant do nothin while regimen takes action so i wont be doing a lot of regimens as a gladi.

I have done them but to activate them you have to press the BG button hundreds of times untill it bypass the " more than 1 people tryed to activate BG" error.

Still my concern is the lack of speed and responce from controler compared to keyboard,BG is a diferent discussion.

DOesnt matter if your group is good or bad, actually is worst for the tank rolein terms of performance  if your group is good becouse the dps takes more hate, and your supouse to be able to keep up with them, unless of course your seriously gymped, for whatever reason.( by example becouse your playing with a controler)

Ikkei

Originally posted by Azorith

Controllers do make some functionality easier but moving over to the 7th skill in the bar does take longer than pressing 7. Wrokarounds are to set macros and bind macro buttons.

Hell, even with a keyboard I have to do workarounds though. For any MMO I set my keyboard up with 1-6, shift 1-6, ctrl 1-6, q, e, z, x, c, r, f, g as the action bar keys. Then it continues with extra mouse buttons. Doing that my hand never has to leave my home keys (wasd).

Same here. I hate that I can't remap action keys in FF XIV. Hopefully they'll add it within a few months after release... (haven't checked beta for a solid two weeks now)

Drake77

This is why I quit playing MMO's.Its ALL A GRIND! No matter how its done.They drag out the levels so you keep paying...

Maybe one day all you losers will wake up and relize your living your life in a MMO(life sim).

We never grow up from high school still trying to impress our peers with material items,and now virtual items we so called,earned? Anotherwards worked for like a job! MMO's are a career in disguise..

Get out,ride a bike,watch a movie,go swimming,get some sex,go to a concert,etc etc.

GET A REAL LIFE! All this virtual garbage means nothing.Its just written code,written for your virtual life!

FPS,RTS,RPG's dont keep you plugged in to the matrix as long...why? Because you dont have to make a career out of them.

SNAP OUT OF IT! ITS NOT REAL