Originally posted by Foxly "It won't be long before the Euro is the worldwide dominant currency, the Middle east and asian countries are already changing their values to the Euro, since the euro is quite a lot stabler(sp?) then the dollar." Doh! Sorry about the misinterpretation, I don't really keep a study of economics so this is enlightening for me. Thanks for the additional explaination concerning the difference between changing one's official currency and setting against the value of a dominant currency. After learning that, I would be surprised if Asia hasn't already done so."Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in."
I'd probably say that Asian and Middle Eastern countries will peg their currencies to Euro, but some time in the future, not short term. (About Middle East, I don't think they would want to peg to Euro, since they are dealing with the US for oil.)
Back to the topic.
The basics of economics will tell you.
Firstly, most businesses or ventures will invest on familiar markets. Meaning, the US market is currently most mature and stable. Not to mention fully settled, in terms of technology and e-banking services.
While Europe's gaming market standard is comparable to the US market, the localization needs (e.g. French, German language support) deters the gaming companies to invest on this market. Also, most gaming companies are American-based, so no-brainer.
What would really be enjoyable is that if gaming companies wants to expand their business operations to overseas market, I think that they should, first of all, research on the various tastes and preferences most foreign players have.
Secondly, they should program their business operation such that providing international support will be a breeze. They should also look into factors such as gamers who don't own either a credit card or PayPal account etc. and remedy those problems (like issuing game cards to foreign distributors so that they can sell them to consumers there, or providing money orders as an option for the international gamers to rely on).
Thirdly, if supporting the international market is somewhat costly, the least they can do is to provide the same technical support as the main market and give avenue for the international gamers to seek counsel. Simplifying this, it means provide the international gamers a reliable communication channel for them to rely on.
(Note: since game cards have pre-defined lifespan, this eliminates the need to provide monthly payments by the international gamers. Also, this may increase the revenue of the companies since long-term, these gamers will pay more than the main market gamers.)
What would be really interesting is that gaming companies integrate the foreign market into their business operation instead of relying on the US market heavily. For example, I like ArenaNet's business operations (due to the fact that they completely eliminate the need for payment).
Overall, I would agree that MMOG companies should provide the same level of service to the foreign market as that of the US. Just because the US is the centre of the market doesn't mean the rest of the world couldn't be bothered. When there's demand overseas, they should look into it...
Wholeheartedly. If they can't provide the same service as they can for the US gamers, don't bother. It will leave a sour taste to the foreign gamers and, worse, if once bitten twice shy, and the company decided to venture into foreign market, the reputation has been tarnished beforehand, so it'll be difficult for the foreign gamers to accept it.
IMO, I would like the MMOG companies to cater to the world market, but if they're struggling locally, don't even bother trying to go global until their problems has been solved first-hand.
I do like contributors rather than debators/griefers. Thanks for that and I agree on most of that. French & German are supported on some MMO's I've found, but not often. I agree that services should be the same for foreign consumers if the basic gaming service is available to them. Bad business ethics otherwise. As for foreign market research, well, some games are developed toward the American market of their origin and are slightly changed in the foreign releases based on foreign market research -a big deal to American companies. Almost everything they do is based on market research. I think a lot of what you mentioned is already being done by various MMO companies, but not all of it to any one company, the way it should be. Some companies aren't offering squat like CoH.
However, I'm not a one-bitten-twice-shy consumer. I know different companies have different ethics. They make their own, there is no intrinsic code template to every company, American or otherwise. I'm willing to welcome Blizzard Entertainment's big international release of WoW anticipated soon even though I was very disappointed with SOE, for instance. I won't shun an entire country for one company's actions. Just like I wouldn't make a blanket statement about a culture based on it's politicians' actions. Let's face it, some companies are trying and deserve credit. But a lot of other companies really could stand to learn a few things from these posts.
Aranril, thanks for saying something that makes a difference. I hope the big dogs out there glance away from their felchy gravy train long enough to find some interest in your post.
To counterpoint the international market research opinion you posted, I know Neverwinter Nights is different, having both the British & American versions. Not just language has been changed, some minor differences based on market research, wish I could remember them now, my husband can't remember either atm. Bugger!
The game cards idea is definitely a good one, it wouldn't exactly cost those companies a lot to distribute some to the UK and elsewhere. I think in the future game card will be better distributed.
Just a stab in the dark here, but I don't think European gamers give a damn if the game is in American or British English and I think if a game is released in Europe, that was originally an American game, it shouldn't be changed based on market research per se. And the same for the rest of the world. It would be like Square Enix releasing a longer ending and for the European Final Fantasy X, where Americans got a watered down ending, the Japanese had more difficult minigames on their versions. It isn't fair to the world market that it should be changed to suit someone's culture. If there is a demand for an American game, why change it if that game is what they want?
Also, there has been a lot of focus about American business ethics, which are highly developed. And gripe about foreign policy (I'd like to see specifics on that from griefers, this is an all too common thing to hear and hardly ever supported, usually involving double standards from the complainer) It's always the crappy one or two companies that everyone wants to base all millions of American companies on, which seems like more of an opportunistic attempt to smear America as usual. Well, being American and having left to Britain, I still see it as ill educated and poorly demonstrated. There's a lot of empty hate out there poorly justified by the individuals that spout the nonsense the media tells them to. Just a thought. What about non-American companies with the same poor standards? I fully foresee European MMO companies in the future that will do exactly the same thing to Americans. I just hope the standards aren't double and go both ways, American and non.
As for starting at home, it is a no-brainer. You develop a product, do you develop it for your country or someone else's first? Who are the least expensive distributors? Where is your company based? What market is it you are most familiar with? Etc, etc, and so forth, blah blah blah. Of course you start a company localized. It is silly to assume it shouldn't be. Expanding a company is the focus of this topic. The problematics are simply involved in the foreign expansion of companies. I think a company should have its services offered on the international market fully ready and in place prior to opening the avenue. It's like a company missing an important department because it couldn't be bothered to put the effort out there for the international product.
Hear, hear to Aranril!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in."
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
SOE: I think it took them at least 3 years just to establish non US servers.
It was 4 years before they established 3 EU servers, with EU CS, and two non English languages supported (French/German). Even when these Ubisoft servers were released UK players got screwed. Firstly you now had to pay in Euros not dollars and so got a worse deal due to the exchange rate(even bigger difference now). Secondly, I read on the new EU forums posts from players complaining that the 3 EU servers were brought down and patched at the same time as the US. This ofcourse was according to PST times so it occurred in the evening in Europe, but was ready before most US players got home from work/school.
Shadowbane: Around the time it was due to be released I went to the official website to check it out. They stated clearly that a US ONLY release was imminent, no non US would be able to play. Fine, I thought, I'll click on the EU link to see their plans for Europe. At the time there was not even any beta testing planned for shadowbane in EU let alone a release schedule. I gave up and never checked agian.
Earth and Beyond: 2 years ago I decided to take a break from everquest, and play EnB, after trying the 5 day trial. Although the game had been out for 3 months, no games stores in the UK had it on their shelves, nor any website but 1 had it listed as availab;e to buy. The 1 site was amazon and they wanted £34.99, whilst the US amazon was selling EnB for $19.99. I bought the game from a Candain website and the value of the goods only came to £18 so I paid NO VAT.
Horizons: Until recently I was subscribed. Despite having EU servers and support (based in Italy) there were still problems. To start with patches were delayed by 1 or to days, compared to the US, and were done in non EU peak time, GREAT! But then they started having problems. They decided to merge the US servers, but left the EU. However the EU got the same patch that wiped out ALL player built structures. Problems with the US patch meant it was a month before auctions began to actually buy a plot again. The EU players likewise had to wait as well, and were effectively a further month behind. Then they decided to MERGE the EU servers as well, so after 2 months waiting, and almost being able to buy a plot to start building on, we were set back another month. At one point, due to differences in the servers, the EU were 6 weeks behind the US in pathces, and reading about all the new content on the forums but not able to play it. EU CS is almost non existant these days and even the fanbois have been ranting about it.
EQ2: I read on one of the forums that English speaking players, no matter where you are from, MUST play on the same server as the English speaking US players. So more lag, due to more hops to reach the west coast servers, as opposed to about 6 in the UK(thats what is was with EQ1) US PST patch times meaning servers done at peak EU. GMs not logging in until 2pm PST, 10PM GMT or 11PM CET. It's a good thing EQ2 is designed for powergamers with lots of time on there hands, a casual EU player who plays 2 hours per night would have no chance.
Finally WoW: Whislt I'll probably be glad of EU servers, and CS, I am still miffed to have to wait until when? February? to be able to play a game that is ready now.
Originally posted by Finduilas Finally WoW: Whislt I'll probably be glad of EU servers, and CS, I am still miffed to have to wait until when? February? to be able to play a game that is ready now.
Thanks for the constructive contribution, Finduilas! Now gettin' an idea of what sort of MMORPG's I think I'll avoid checking out. I was seriously considering EQII , but now I'm thinking I'll just head over to WoW with glee come February and for the time being play up my free 1 year trial with Anarchy Online.
About WoW in EU -I KNOW!! My husband and I have got ants in our pants ever since we found out we have to wait till February to play it! I'm just glad they're going to have it available to us, still it would be cool if they released the games at the same time. They must have started on the EU server setup after the American release. I guess Christmas sales in America & Canada encouraged the initial release to be when it was. I'm so excited, I just can't hide it. *does a little dance* Woot!
"Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in."
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Lots of people feel it is somehow riteous and sophisticated to post an opposing view without any supporting comments. They think they are cool, this self-inflating mentality is usually witnessed in the know-it-all sort of trollers that think that somehow in cyberspace they are emperors. I'm surprised it isn't all in l33+5p34k. I don't feel that this contributes to the topic at hand. Please try to support your opinions, people. Have a fact or two to back it up, tell us why you feel one way or the other. But don't clog up the forums with useless opposing views just to be cool & different or whatever your justification is. Now we know who may be guilty of this, but we also know the guilty would never admit their crime to themselves or others. Let's just not point fingers and just hope they edit their posts with some factual-based justification to their opinions. Please do consider this in the future before posting to any forum thread, thank you.
It really is useless and not impressive to the your forum peers when you just state an unsupported & unjustified opinion. Don't jump on the "cool" bandwagon.
"Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in."
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Comments
I'd probably say that Asian and Middle Eastern countries will peg their currencies to Euro, but some time in the future, not short term. (About Middle East, I don't think they would want to peg to Euro, since they are dealing with the US for oil.)
Back to the topic.
The basics of economics will tell you.
Firstly, most businesses or ventures will invest on familiar markets. Meaning, the US market is currently most mature and stable. Not to mention fully settled, in terms of technology and e-banking services.
While Europe's gaming market standard is comparable to the US market, the localization needs (e.g. French, German language support) deters the gaming companies to invest on this market. Also, most gaming companies are American-based, so no-brainer.
What would really be enjoyable is that if gaming companies wants to expand their business operations to overseas market, I think that they should, first of all, research on the various tastes and preferences most foreign players have.
Secondly, they should program their business operation such that providing international support will be a breeze. They should also look into factors such as gamers who don't own either a credit card or PayPal account etc. and remedy those problems (like issuing game cards to foreign distributors so that they can sell them to consumers there, or providing money orders as an option for the international gamers to rely on).
Thirdly, if supporting the international market is somewhat costly, the least they can do is to provide the same technical support as the main market and give avenue for the international gamers to seek counsel. Simplifying this, it means provide the international gamers a reliable communication channel for them to rely on.
(Note: since game cards have pre-defined lifespan, this eliminates the need to provide monthly payments by the international gamers. Also, this may increase the revenue of the companies since long-term, these gamers will pay more than the main market gamers.)
What would be really interesting is that gaming companies integrate the foreign market into their business operation instead of relying on the US market heavily. For example, I like ArenaNet's business operations (due to the fact that they completely eliminate the need for payment).
Overall, I would agree that MMOG companies should provide the same level of service to the foreign market as that of the US. Just because the US is the centre of the market doesn't mean the rest of the world couldn't be bothered. When there's demand overseas, they should look into it...
Wholeheartedly. If they can't provide the same service as they can for the US gamers, don't bother. It will leave a sour taste to the foreign gamers and, worse, if once bitten twice shy, and the company decided to venture into foreign market, the reputation has been tarnished beforehand, so it'll be difficult for the foreign gamers to accept it.
IMO, I would like the MMOG companies to cater to the world market, but if they're struggling locally, don't even bother trying to go global until their problems has been solved first-hand.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now awaiting for GUILD WARS.
Now if only I can play WoW here...
__________________________________________________
I am called "Forum Thread Death". Why? Well, try counting how many replies have been sent after me....
Word, mate. Word.
I do like contributors rather than debators/griefers.
Thanks for that and I agree on most of that. French & German are supported on some MMO's I've found, but not often. I agree that services should be the same for foreign consumers if the basic gaming service is available to them. Bad business ethics otherwise. As for foreign market research, well, some games are developed toward the American market of their origin and are slightly changed in the foreign releases based on foreign market research -a big deal to American companies. Almost everything they do is based on market research. I think a lot of what you mentioned is already being done by various MMO companies, but not all of it to any one company, the way it should be. Some companies aren't offering squat like CoH.
However, I'm not a one-bitten-twice-shy consumer. I know different companies have different ethics. They make their own, there is no intrinsic code template to every company, American or otherwise. I'm willing to welcome Blizzard Entertainment's big international release of WoW anticipated soon even though I was very disappointed with SOE, for instance. I won't shun an entire country for one company's actions. Just like I wouldn't make a blanket statement about a culture based on it's politicians' actions.
Let's face it, some companies are trying and deserve credit. But a lot of other companies really could stand to learn a few things from these posts.
Aranril,
thanks for saying something that makes a difference. I hope the big dogs out there glance away from their felchy gravy train long enough to find some interest in your post.
To counterpoint the international market research opinion you posted, I know Neverwinter Nights is different, having both the British & American versions. Not just language has been changed, some minor differences based on market research, wish I could remember them now, my husband can't remember either atm.
Bugger!
The game cards idea is definitely a good one, it wouldn't exactly cost those companies a lot to distribute some to the UK and elsewhere. I think in the future game card will be better distributed.
Just a stab in the dark here, but I don't think European gamers give a damn if the game is in American or British English and I think if a game is released in Europe, that was originally an American game, it shouldn't be changed based on market research per se. And the same for the rest of the world. It would be like Square Enix releasing a longer ending and for the European Final Fantasy X, where Americans got a watered down ending, the Japanese had more difficult minigames on their versions. It isn't fair to the world market that it should be changed to suit someone's culture. If there is a demand for an American game, why change it if that game is what they want?
Also, there has been a lot of focus about American business ethics, which are highly developed. And gripe about foreign policy (I'd like to see specifics on that from griefers, this is an all too common thing to hear and hardly ever supported, usually involving double standards from the complainer) It's always the crappy one or two companies that everyone wants to base all millions of American companies on, which seems like more of an opportunistic attempt to smear America as usual. Well, being American and having left to Britain, I still see it as ill educated and poorly demonstrated. There's a lot of empty hate out there poorly justified by the individuals that spout the nonsense the media tells them to. Just a thought. What about non-American companies with the same poor standards? I fully foresee European MMO companies in the future that will do exactly the same thing to Americans. I just hope the standards aren't double and go both ways, American and non.
As for starting at home, it is a no-brainer. You develop a product, do you develop it for your country or someone else's first? Who are the least expensive distributors? Where is your company based? What market is it you are most familiar with? Etc, etc, and so forth, blah blah blah. Of course you start a company localized. It is silly to assume it shouldn't be. Expanding a company is the focus of this topic. The problematics are simply involved in the foreign expansion of companies. I think a company should have its services offered on the international market fully ready and in place prior to opening the avenue. It's like a company missing an important department because it couldn't be bothered to put the effort out there for the international product.
Hear, hear to Aranril!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in."
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Good post Fox,
Some things I've discovered:
SOE: I think it took them at least 3 years just to establish non US servers.
It was 4 years before they established 3 EU servers, with EU CS, and two non English languages supported (French/German). Even when these Ubisoft servers were released UK players got screwed. Firstly you now had to pay in Euros not dollars and so got a worse deal due to the exchange rate(even bigger difference now). Secondly, I read on the new EU forums posts from players complaining that the 3 EU servers were brought down and patched at the same time as the US. This ofcourse was according to PST times so it occurred in the evening in Europe, but was ready before most US players got home from work/school.
Shadowbane: Around the time it was due to be released I went to the official website to check it out. They stated clearly that a US ONLY release was imminent, no non US would be able to play. Fine, I thought, I'll click on the EU link to see their plans for Europe. At the time there was not even any beta testing planned for shadowbane in EU let alone a release schedule. I gave up and never checked agian.
Earth and Beyond: 2 years ago I decided to take a break from everquest, and play EnB, after trying the 5 day trial. Although the game had been out for 3 months, no games stores in the UK had it on their shelves, nor any website but 1 had it listed as availab;e to buy. The 1 site was amazon and they wanted £34.99, whilst the US amazon was selling EnB for $19.99. I bought the game from a Candain website and the value of the goods only came to £18 so I paid NO VAT.
Horizons: Until recently I was subscribed. Despite having EU servers and support (based in Italy) there were still problems. To start with patches were delayed by 1 or to days, compared to the US, and were done in non EU peak time, GREAT! But then they started having problems. They decided to merge the US servers, but left the EU. However the EU got the same patch that wiped out ALL player built structures. Problems with the US patch meant it was a month before auctions began to actually buy a plot again. The EU players likewise had to wait as well, and were effectively a further month behind. Then they decided to MERGE the EU servers as well, so after 2 months waiting, and almost being able to buy a plot to start building on, we were set back another month. At one point, due to differences in the servers, the EU were 6 weeks behind the US in pathces, and reading about all the new content on the forums but not able to play it. EU CS is almost non existant these days and even the fanbois have been ranting about it.
EQ2: I read on one of the forums that English speaking players, no matter where you are from, MUST play on the same server as the English speaking US players. So more lag, due to more hops to reach the west coast servers, as opposed to about 6 in the UK(thats what is was with EQ1) US PST patch times meaning servers done at peak EU. GMs not logging in until 2pm PST, 10PM GMT or 11PM CET. It's a good thing EQ2 is designed for powergamers with lots of time on there hands, a casual EU player who plays 2 hours per night would have no chance.
Finally WoW: Whislt I'll probably be glad of EU servers, and CS, I am still miffed to have to wait until when? February? to be able to play a game that is ready now.
Thanks for the constructive contribution, Finduilas!
About WoW in EU -I KNOW!!
My husband and I have got ants in our pants ever since we found out we have to wait till February to play it! I'm just glad they're going to have it available to us, still it would be cool 
if they released the games at the same time. They must have started on the EU server setup after the American release. I guess Christmas sales in America & Canada encouraged the initial release to be when it was. 
I'm so excited, 
I just can't hide it. *does a little dance* Woot! 
"Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in."
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Concerning the opposing view:
Lots of people feel it is somehow riteous and sophisticated to post an opposing view without any supporting comments.
They think they are cool, this self-inflating mentality is usually witnessed in the know-it-all sort of trollers that think that somehow in cyberspace they are emperors. I'm surprised it isn't all in l33+5p34k. I don't feel that this contributes to the topic at hand. Please try to support your opinions, people. Have a fact or two to back it up, tell us why you feel one way or the other. But don't clog up the forums with useless opposing views just to be cool & different or whatever your justification is. Now we know who may be guilty of this, but we also know the guilty
would never admit their crime to themselves or others.
Let's just not point fingers and just hope they edit their posts with some factual-based justification to their opinions. Please do consider this in the future before posting to any forum thread, thank you.
It really is useless and not impressive to the your forum peers when you just state an unsupported & unjustified opinion. Don't jump on the "cool" bandwagon.
"Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in."
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."