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I hope to clear some things up with this.
Nadriell
Member UncommonPosts: 197
I am creating this post to try and help clear some things up.
"Can i get an auto attack hello?!"
This is one of the complaints i hear a lot on these boards about FFXIV... and the answer to this question is no. Why? because there is a stamina system set up in XIV. IF there was an auto-attack function each attack would drain your stamina until zip.. and then you won't attack or cast at all.. I personally enjoy the stamina system. This is combat, to swing a sword drains you, don't believe me, go buy a english long sword, or even a short sword and swing it around, it will tire your wrists and arms slowly, but yes... you will tire BECAUSE, your stamina is giving out... concentrating on something i.e. casting a spell drains stamina, maintaining that concentration while being swung on... Each action you choose in FFXIV takes stamina, you should be thankful they give you this because 1. it adds emersion and is more realistic and 2. its better then hitting 1 and sitting there waiting. great system and it makes the gameplay more fun.
"The UI is terrible, i cannot believe this?!"
Based on what? World of Warcraft? Aion? EQ2? all the others that follow this same UI... its not terrible its just different but i can understand how change is scary. No the UI does not accomidate button mashing and ease of access the first part of that "Button mashing" is because of the system i just explained above. Combat is long and drawn out, and each action counts. the second, well its a japanese style interface. I personally don't mind it, and enjoy it actually most western people like the WoW style UI, but im sorry i've seen that style a million times, and i am sick of it, this is a nice change of pace.
"This reeks of a bad console import"
Yeah, it probably does, but every single final fantasy game that came to the PC was imported from the console, the two go hand in hand. playstation and PC final fantasy games. anyone who has not played Final Fantasy before i am sorry this confuses you. The UI is setup to accomidate both, we PC players may suffer a little, but i am sure the PS3 players will suffer as well somewhere down the line... its a trade off.... Final Fantasy will be on both console and PC and as a fan. I am not upset by tthis. its been this way for a long time.
Comments
more coming, but i have to run to the story preview though:
Japanese RPG's in general
Holding your hand
Reading 101
amongst other things.
stay tuned~
If you don't understand interaction design, don't comment on the UI. It's as bad as trolls who've never played the game coming here to bash it.
The UI is terrible for the PC, because it's not designed for the PC. The reason there is no drag and drop, for example, is because PS3 players don't drag and drop with a controller. SE designed the UI to support the interactive possibilities/standards/metaphors/expectations of the PS3 controller, not the keyboard and mouse of the PC.
There are objective standards to proper interaction design, per field of HCI, and while there are interfaces out there with unique elements that users must become accustomed to, these elements, if competently implemented, still obey basic HCI principles. Through usability studies, all competent PC software companies (including gaming companies) will attempt to develop UIs that best support the interactive habits of their users, which, in the case of a PC release, is using the keyboard and mouse. They will do this while trying to optimize certain metrics, such as maximizing discoverability of UI elements, minimizing the amount of keystrokes or clicks a user has to do to reach a certain UI destination, prioritizing windows and features so that the more often used ones occupy the more prevalent screen real estate while ensuring that the relatively more hidden, less used features are still discoverable, etc.
SE did a very poor job releasing the current UI to the PC marketplace. Examples of this are the unnecessarily (for PC) deep menu system, the inability to drag and drop skills from one action slot to another, the inability to open more than one window at once (i.e. the Actions window and the Macro window, forcing users to write down names of abilities before being able to program macros), etc. The fact that SE designed the UI according to their area of familiarity (console controller possibilities) while releasing the game to the PC market is not a valid excuse. It's immature for a company of SE's size. PC players are 100% in the right to criticize the UI.
"Can i get an auto attack hello?!"
I haven't heard this complaint yet. If it's out there, it's very rare.
"The UI is terrible, i cannot believe this?!"
Yes, people compare it to other games they've played. But the complaints are also based on the ridiculous amount of menus you have to go through to get things done. Also, people had a major issue with response time of accessing those menus.
"This reeks of a bad console import"
Yeah, it does. It'll likely get better as complaints mount and time goes on.
good read, and i agree with you.
QFT
The hallmarks of a good UI is a system that is:
- Simple
- Accessible
- Efficient
- Nearly invisible (meaning it demands so little focus from the player that they can ignore it most of the time to focus on the actual game)
The FFXI UI really doesn't have any of these, unless you are looking at it from a console perspective. If that's the case, then it is a little bit better, but still is lacking.
i saw no problem with the UI once i figured it out. This is first FF game ive played on PC as well. yea it does take several menus to get somewhere and takes up some time but im also not one of these people that scream, " I HAVE TO HAVE IT NOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!"
That is highly subjective, and one can not say it is or is not any of those things till more time is spent with the game. I can remember when people freaked out over Windows 95, mainly because it was so differrent from Win 3.0 and DoS. The fact is that over time as you adapt to the UI you may find that it is highly efficient(or not I have not made my mind up about it). Also while this game may be coming out on the PS3 the PC version is not a port in fact they are having to retool the game for the PS3.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
damn i loled becouse all i saw on your post was the last sentence and thats how im feeling right now since my CE is not here yet D=.
The ui will be optimised eventually but right now is not very user friendly.On the other hand, is not as bad as it seems once you get acostume to it.
Oh, look, another GUI thread. I wonder how long until we'll get to the....
"Hey, if you guys are too thick to play this game, I'm kinda glad it repels you, thickies."
"ARROGANCE! "
...point of this thread.
Anywho, speaking as somebody who actually took a University UI glass, I have to say that I'm rather disapponited with all these armchair designers who apparently think a PC design can only look or be used one way. What boring, derivative games you would make, but hey, it least your users could never complain they were inconvenienced by having to learn anything.
I don't even know why they bother. The game won't change, and for a very ironic reason: because it's extremely un-user-friendly to radically revamp the GUI that the paying Final Fantasy XIV playerbase has taken the time to familiarize themselves with. Not to mention the ridiculous costs involved for such a minor benefit. Sorry, boys and girls, we're staying the course. If you don't like where this boat is going, you've got two choices, you can hit the lifeboats or learn to like it.
LOL true.
I didn't mean to turn this into a GUI thread. It's just that HCI is my academic and career area, so it particularly irks me when people make retarded comments about desirable vs. undesirable UI.
Whoops, I completely agree with you. :P
I actually enjoy the UI, and if you can't accept the fact that this game will be on PS3 hence the menus and no drag and drop then i am sorry... good luck finding another game... If you can deal with the 15 extra seconds it takes to get somewhere then congratuations you have one of life's most fundamental principles... patience.
I was going to finish this, but i got to really thinking about it. I am enjoying the game emmensly i am almost a conj. 10 and in a LS that shares a lot of the same views i do, why should i come to these boards of ALL boards, and post to people who are just going to piss moan and argue with me...
I couldn't find a reason...
So back to FFXIV i go... but i will sum up the rest.
Japanese RPGS:
Japanese RPG's outside of the MMO genre are just as confusing, often throwing you right in the middle without a fking clue as what to do... this game is no different... you have to READ the text to understand whats going on. you think this is bad, go play the original FF without reading and see how fare you get.
Reading 101:
This is a JRPG ... read the text of the quests and this will fix all your "I don't know what to do" problems... skimming or skipping is not going to work in this game. sorry all you illiterate people. Yes, guild leves point you in the right direction to the monsters..... because its an instanced fight. the story arcs are not so kind... read kiddie, please.
thats pretty much all i am going to sum up
FFXIV is for a small few you apperciate an RPG and not a button mashing fest. It will not die, it wasn't a failed launch, actually it was pretty smooth in terms of launches and NO i am not a fan boy, I was on the Aion band wagon for a long time, 2 years i waited for that game and was Hyped for its release, played it, and hated it....... i am honest to my feelings and i feel FFXIV is the game for me for a long time to come. sorry to all those who had hopes... hope you find your game.
NOW, back to camp emerald moss, got some leves to take out.
It's cool that you enjoy the game. And there are some aspects of the game that I find attractive.
But defending their UI design choices for PC players seems like a silly thing to do.
not any more silly then complaining that it takes you 10 extra second to open a menu, i mean really 10 seconds? its THAT big of a deal?
Originally posted by Nadriell
"Can i get an auto attack hello?!"
no. Why? 1. it adds emersion and is more realistic and 2. its better then hitting 1 and sitting there waiting. great system and it makes the gameplay more fun.
1. I haven't seen my character get stronger, or bulk up, or become more efficent with his stamina. If your going to base a game off realisim, where is the rest of it? That's an excuse.
2. I can't recall a single mmo where you hit one button and then do nothing. The special attacks are what consume "stamina."
Having no Auto-attack creates a huge amount of "Button Mashing."
"The UI is terrible, i cannot believe this?!"
Based on what? World of Warcraft? Aion? EQ2? Vanguard? EQ1? Free Realms? DAOC? Warhammer? Champions? STO? CoH/CoV? Isteria? Merdian59? Asherons Call 1/2? AoC? all the others that follow this same UI... So its safe to say its a standardized way of playing?
No the UI does not accomidate button mashing(except in combat?) and ease of access the first part of that "Button mashing" is because of the system i just explained above.
Combat is long and drawn out Agreed
and each action counts. Yeah, each time you spam that attack, to make it closer to an auto attack, toss in slow moving ability or two and your all set.
the second, well its a japanese style interface. Besides FF11 what other japanese MMo's have the same UI?
I personally don't mind it, and enjoy it actually most western people like the WoW style UI, but im sorry i've seen that style a million times, and i am sick of it, this is a nice change of pace. I bet that if I invented a new form of tire (wheel) for your automobile, that was a square, you would enjoy it because its a nice change of pace. It has a lot in common with the game to actually. It's less effective, less effecient, confusing, it makes people wonder who the heck made such a terrible design? But there's always those fanboys out there who will love it and defend it no matter how terrible it makes your car perform.
"This reeks of a bad console import"
Yeah ...Can I be cheap and say I agree with this part of your answer to the question above?
we PC players may suffer a little, but i am sure the PS3 players will suffer as well somewhere down the line... You just said you may suffer a little? But previously you state "this is a nice change of pace" - "I personally don't mind it"- "(i) enjoy it actually" - "I am not upset by this." So let me get this straight, I can give you something, that makes you suffer a little bit, but you will enjoy it because its a change of pace, adds one sided emersion, button mashing in areas that are not efficent, slow loading in other areas that would be more efficent, and in the end you wouldnt be upset by it? I'm gonna be rich.
If you made it this far thanks for reading the above comments. I will say - I am actually enjoying Final Fantasy 14, but it has many faults. It's kind of like a retarded puppy, that poops on your lap when ever its happy - it annoys you and makes you want to strangle it because it can't be trained like so many other puppies you've owned in the past - but its still cute in some ways.
My point is - don't make excuses for things that clearly need to be changed or adjusted. Don't say you're fine with it one sentence and then the next admit to suffering. FF is a good game - it just needs some he
If you made it this far thanks for reading the above comments. I will say - I am actually enjoying Final Fantasy 14, but it has many faults. It's kind of like a retarded puppy, that poops on your lap when ever its happy - it annoys you and makes you want to strangle it because it can't be trained like so many other puppies you've owned in the past - but its still cute in some ways.
My point is - don't make excuses for things that clearly need to be changed or adjusted. Don't say you're fine with it one sentence and then the next admit to suffering. FF is a good game - it just needs some help.
1. Do I think it needs an auto attack? Nah - but coming up with a better system then what it has would be ideal.
2. Does the UI suck? Yeah - but mostly to extensive menu's and slowness. Can it be improved? Yes.
3. Is it a bad console port? Yeah, and it seems they didnt learn their lesson from FFXI, but they have made some improvements over the previous game. But this shouldnt stop you from trying it out.
10 extra seconds sounds like a helluva long time to me.
But it was never a BIG deal to me. It's just an OBVIOUS deal.
i never said I WAS SUFFERING, i said pc players may suffer a bit, sorry if i wasn't clear..... and i will stand by my point of enjoying it.... and if you invented a SQUARE tire, sure i'll try it, and if its shit i'll tell you, and if i like it i'll give you props... i just happen to like this...
About the 10 extra seconds debate.
Do we have any math Jockeys that could figure out how many seconds are wasted in 1 entire session of game time, 1 month, and 1 year? Going based on theory and average play times.
My point is, that 10 seconds turns into a moving train - eventually you've wasted minutes, hours, and days screwing around with a faulty menu. It has nothing to do with patience on my end - I just don't like useless things.
Imagine that you are stepping in your car - but before you start it, you have to flip a switch up and down 10 times, which took 10 seconds. And then before shifting to reverse, flip the switch 10 times, and then after backing up, before you switch to drive, flip the switch 10 times, and then to turn on the radio, flip the switch 10 times, oh? you dont like the station? flip the switch 10 times to turn the station...........I think you all are getting the point of this run on sentence.
Patience and Poor Design, shouldn't go hand and hand. Fix the poor design, like the admited they were "looking into" and stop making excuses for it, such as "You need more patience."
Wait, before I press "Post Message." I need to flip a switch 10 times....Loading Please Wait.
My only gripe is the terrible ammount of lag. There's like a 2-3 second delay in menu switches. Everything just feels really slow.
Can we stop calling this a PS3 port, because it isn't. In fact the PS3 game does not even come out till March of next year, and before it gets mentioned this is not the Beta for the PS3 game since they have to retool the whole game for the PS3; thats why they postponed it till March.
"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson
Statements like this just piss me off. You know why? Because I believed them until I went in a played myself in OB. Never played FF before except XIII for couple of hours, and the UI was fine for me, no discomfort at all. The game was awesome, at least in it's early levels. All I could feel is that UI is DIFFERENT, but I guess for some it is a problem. Use two hands on the keyboard WASD and JIKL for movement/camera/turns, use ENTER a little more often for menus and quests, that's it. Way to bash a game for a trivial deviation from mainstream.
Rubbish! Too bad too, your other points were nice.
The UI is terrible not based on other games, although other games do have a better UI. The inherent lag and frivolous steps needed to do certain things is what makes it terrible. The lack of intuitiveness adds to this. We're suppose to be taking steps FOWARD with progression, not backwards.
You need to learn how to seperate the raving fanboys and the extremist haters out from the real issues that an objective person has.
Standardized way of playing?
I really don't know where to begin with this lol.
Stopped in to check my thread..... this is turning into a GUI thread when i meant it more for the people who are complaining they have no direction in the game.... and there refusal to read..... huh, funny how these things turn out.
on another note, just hit conj 10 now i am going to switch to Thaum. so i can pick up poison and regen. i figure if i can poison mob, regen me, then waylay with fire blizzard and the like.
anyone else enjoying the game so far?
Nadriell~
"Can i get an auto attack hello?!"
I agree this is a style issue. There is no reason for an auto-attack other than people being used to it. I think your argument for this is perfectly valid.
"The UI is terrible, i cannot believe this?!"
This is a legitimate complaint. It isn't just about change...the FF XIV interface is simply a huge step backwards in UI to the level of being more than a decade behind current generation interfaces. Personal advice - stop arguing with people about the UI...you simply look like an idiot when you defend it. No game is perfect...take the lumps when they are appropriate and move on to the positives of the game in question.
"This reeks of a bad console import"
Not sure the game is a "bad" console import, but I think your argument on this point is spot on.