After reading the thead I just bought the game. Will be interesting to see if the application and practice is as appealing as the concept, I hate AH's in mmo's.
Now to read through the million other threads here bashing the game and find out I just made a bad purchase
PS I got the CE is it worth it?
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
In fact, compared to other games, the chat is almost barren for having so many people all around you at a given time. Anyone else notice this? There is more chat going on in Istaria (couple hundred peole play that game) at any given time then FFXIV, so far.
Well is not a surprise, a lot of players play with gamepads.
People played gamepads with XI at NA launch, too... and chat was quite lively. Constant conversations going on, people asking questions, people trying to answer said questions, people joking around. It was very lively.
I think it's more a sign of the times than anything else.
More people are about "being off by themselves, soloing" these days, and less about "interacting with others". It's endemic to most new MMOs in the past several years. Back when XI first came out, it was a very different time, and MMOs were still very much about community. People were social... I remember seeing gatherings of people in various games who were just hanging around talking for the sake of doing so.
While I was in FFXIV - post launch - and at a crowded Aetheryte crystal, I tried to strike up conversation with people... I'd ask a question... no response. Ask if anyone wanted to run some leves... no response. I'd remark on someone's name (if it was a reference to something)...no response. I'm surrounded by at least 2-3 dozen people, and you could hear a pin drop (so to speak).
I'd go back into the city (Ul'dah), go to an area like the markets where there's plenty of people... ask if anyone happens to know which merchant sells an item I needed, first in /say, then in /shout.. no answer.
From time to time, I'd see others asking questions or making comments.. I'd respond with an at least an "not sure, but I'll let you know if I find it" if someone asked where something was and I didn't know the answer. They'd either just say "thanks" and then not speak another word... or they wouldn't respond at all.
I'm sure others experiences are going to be different. But that was mine. And this was the case day after day, night after night for 3 days before I decided (for various reasons) to set FFXIV aside for now and let it bake a bit more.
It was very discouraging to me, to say the least, to find such an anti-social playerbase developing so quickly after launch.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
People played gamepads with XI at NA launch, too... and chat was quite lively. Constant conversations going on, people asking questions, people trying to answer said questions, people joking around. It was very lively.
I think it's more a sign of the times than anything else.
More people are about "being off by themselves, soloing" these days, and less about "interacting with others". It's endemic to most new MMOs in the past several years. Back when XI first came out, it was a very different time, and MMOs were still very much about community. People were social... I remember seeing gatherings of people in various games who were just hanging around talking for the sake of doing so.
This.
Looking at the current generation of MMO's the last couple of years, the general trends in forum debates, I think the mindset and mentality of the current MMO playerbase has changed from what it was in the beginning.
Maybe after years of MMO gaming MMO gamers have grown jaded, grown insensitive and indifferent to a lot of pleasures that can also be had in MMO games. Maybe it is because the way these current gen MMO's are made stimulate solistic behaviour instead of community building. Fact is that it's a whole different atmosphere in MMORPG's and related forums like here than it used to be.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I find the issue is people are unwilling to work together and get in a good linkshell/guild. If you and 10 or so people work together, this is zero reason why you can't have people gathering requirements and people crafting. All to help each other out.
That is the mentality of people. Even casuals can work together. You can as a casual find someone and say hey, I don't have a lot of gil, but I can provide mats and additional mats for items? Gil doesn't seem abundant, so to me that seems the route this game is going purely a traded economy for the time being until higher levels.
I find the issue is people are unwilling to work together and get in a good linkshell/guild. If you and 10 or so people work together, this is zero reason why you can't have people gathering requirements and people crafting. All to help each other out.
That is the mentality of people. Even casuals can work together. You can as a casual find someone and say hey, I don't have a lot of gil, but I can provide mats and additional mats for items? Gil doesn't seem abundant, so to me that seems the route this game is going purely a traded economy for the time being until higher levels.
On some level I do agree with you. The AH thing will happen, though.
I agree, I will now be buying this game, except looking through other players bags or what ever to find the chest pc I want is not a deterant. This is sounding more and more like EQ1 all the time now. Use to go to tunnel in EC and look through what people were selling because there was no AH, Broker, Bizzar. Thanks OP, hope the game is as complex and non-casual as you say.
Originally posted by jamesd129
Hmm, I wasn't planning on playing this game until I read this thread. All too often I find myself soloing everything in MMOs and not talking to anyone (what can I say, I'm introverted) and I like the idea that community involvment is forced. Not being able to search for items sound like a pain, I would hope player retainers would have a sign or something saying which kinds of things they sell, but I imagine eventually if it really does suck the developers will relent and add a search function. Now if only there was some form of pvp in the game...
I agree, I will now be buying this game, except looking through other players bags or what ever to find the chest pc I want is not a deterant. This is sounding more and more like EQ1 all the time now. Use to go to tunnel in EC and look through what people were selling because there was no AH, Broker, Bizzar. Thanks OP, hope the game is as complex and non-casual as you say.
Originally posted by jamesd129
Hmm, I wasn't planning on playing this game until I read this thread. All too often I find myself soloing everything in MMOs and not talking to anyone (what can I say, I'm introverted) and I like the idea that community involvment is forced. Not being able to search for items sound like a pain, I would hope player retainers would have a sign or something saying which kinds of things they sell, but I imagine eventually if it really does suck the developers will relent and add a search function. Now if only there was some form of pvp in the game...
Theres nothing complex about this game, you hit either "1" or "2" during combat, solo 100% of the time(its harder to get xp in groups, i.e. if the party leader isnt around and you kill something pay heed to how much xp you get)
It is complex why it takes 15seconds of window pop up lag to craft an item I will admit. It's complex why any non-masochist would enjoy this game.
Oh why bother, you seem as doe-eyed as me when I bought the game, I only wish you would PM me 5 days into the game ok? I want to see how it works out for you.
Make CE rediculously hard to progress, and do anything. So it forces a community to form, and many friends/LS's and cooperation to advance.
When SE "Standard Edition" comes out, they will be greeted by a very well established and welcoming community as they CE peeps in place will want to help the new SE's out because they remember how tough of a time doing jack squat was when they first started a week or so ago.
This will strengthen the community ten fold, and CE players will want to stay ahead so they can continue to teach the SE, and play with them. SE will want to catch up, always admiring the CE, making them give it there all! Then after the CE, and SE start to blend into one utopia of a community, and RMT'ers/Gold sellers figure it is near impossible to make $$$ when their is no region/trade chat/AH. They will leave forever. Then SE will magically go poof!!! AH!!! Everyone will be overjoyed, and 99% of the RMTers/Gold sellers will be gone for good, practically wiping the annoyince of Goldspam altogether.
The community lives happily ever after.
Heres what might actually happen though
SE joins world.
SE: Hey guys we noobs
CE: GTFO, U CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND WE ARE BITTER AND OUR COMMUNITY HAS BLED WITH US, YOU HAVE NO PLACE.
SE: )=
SE: /ragequit.
CE: See, us loyal CE buyers were all loyal FF fans, of people who liked the idea of the game enough to fork out extra cash and play for the long haul forming a community, while SE was only intended to register extra box sales for future content... FOR US!! MWAHAHAHHAHA
You know, you're making it a lot harder than it is.
Simply travel to the city that that guild is based in, for Carpentry you go to Ul'dah. Pick up the FIVE leves he has for carpentry at the level master in the Quicksand, this will easily bring you to at least level 5 carpentry, which unlocks more levels for you to complete. Rince and repeat for other guilds, btw leve items that you create as extras stay in your inventory afterwards ;]
I dont think the extra items you created for crafting quests stay with you. they only turn into higher quality levels for the quests.
[quote]
[i]Originally posted by secton[/i]
[b]Maybe this is what Square was thinking.[/b]
[b]Make CE rediculously hard to progress, and do anything. So it forces a community to form, and many friends/LS's and cooperation to advance.[/b]
When SE "Standard Edition" comes out, they will be greeted by a very well established and welcoming community as they CE peeps in place will want to help the new SE's out because they remember how tough of a time doing jack squat was when they first started a week or so ago.
[b]This will strengthen the community ten fold, and CE players will want to stay ahead so they can continue to teach the SE, and play with them. SE will want to catch up, always admiring the CE, making them give it there all! Then after the CE, and SE start to blend into one utopia of a community, and RMT'ers/Gold sellers figure it is near impossible to make $$$ when their is no region/trade chat/AH. They will leave forever. Then SE will magically go poof!!! AH!!! Everyone will be overjoyed, and 99% of the RMTers/Gold sellers will be gone for good, practically wiping the annoyince of Goldspam altogether.[/b]
[b]The community lives happily ever after.[/b]
[b] [/b]
[b] [/b]
[b]Heres what might actually happen though[/b]
[b]SE joins world.[/b]
[b]SE: Hey guys we noobs[/b]
[b]CE: GTFO, U CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND WE ARE BITTER AND OUR COMMUNITY HAS BLED WITH US, YOU HAVE NO PLACE.[/b]
[b]SE: )=[/b]
[b]SE: /ragequit.[/b]
[b]CE: See, us loyal CE buyers were all loyal FF fans, of people who liked the idea of the game enough to fork out extra cash and play for the long haul forming a community, while SE was only intended to register extra box sales for future content... FOR US!! MWAHAHAHHAHA[/b]
I find the issue is people are unwilling to work together and get in a good linkshell/guild. If you and 10 or so people work together, this is zero reason why you can't have people gathering requirements and people crafting. All to help each other out.
That is the mentality of people. Even casuals can work together. You can as a casual find someone and say hey, I don't have a lot of gil, but I can provide mats and additional mats for items? Gil doesn't seem abundant, so to me that seems the route this game is going purely a traded economy for the time being until higher levels.
On some level I do agree with you. Im just going to go ahead and call it though, I dont have my enitre day to play ffxiv. Im in the military and if I cant log in and accomplish things within a few hours, I get frustrated. I don't have time to waltz through endless random bazaars and hope I find something useful at a decent price as many people are suggesting.
The point of my thread is simple - FFXIV is marketed as SE as a casual friendly game - it is not, by any means, in any universe "casual friendly"
As of this time FFXIV has a 1.5/5 star rating on amazon.com's japanese site. It's not just me, it's not just Westeren mindsets or impatient players, its the whole world over.
I'm going to call this too - all the people loving the no AH thing - $5 says AH or search bazaar option will be added by ps3 release. Anyone willing to take me up on that?
You got to lvl 20 within 5 days of headstart. You are not CASUAL. Please stop this 'i am casual' nonsense please?
All I read is a long assortment of restrictions bent upon players to force them to behave good, or what the developers thought was the good way to play a game. I don't like that idea of being set up into a certain way to play like they do at all. No AH so you communicate, XP limits for playtime to force you to make several professions... sorry, no thanks. I have zero will to play as if I were a kid and some adults have to show me how to play my games. What hubris. Maybe Japanese people are used to be so obedient to some almighty game system confining them and to such player harrassment, I just find that absurd.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Yea, it is casual friendly. There is no pvp in the game so there is no reason to rush through the content. Just play some time and level up a few levels and shut it off. That's what I have been doing. I'm not worried about getting level cap and all the good pvp gear , because there is no pvp in this game.
You know, is it a hobby of yours to praise bad games? First Tor, now here. I start to assume we were some war enemies in some past life, ya know. Always on the other side where I stand...
Games like this are the reason THE GAME THAT MUST NOT BE NAMED is such a success. It's not that THE GAME THAT MUST NOT BE NAMED is so good, the others are so awful.
A MMO without an AH is such a horrible idea, you have to be masochistic to like it. It's like someone published a 500 pages manual without an index. Yeah, sure, you could argue it is more eductating because it forces you to read the entire damn book every time you seek something, but I rather have what I seek, and not fall back behind known and proven was to make it easier to get right to what you want.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
All I read is a long assortment of restrictions bent upon players to force them to behave good, or what the developers thought was the good way to play a game. I don't like that idea of being set up into a certain way to play like they do at all. No AH so you communicate, XP limits for playtime to force you to make several professions... sorry, no thanks. I have zero will to play as if I were a kid and some adults have to show me how to play my games. What hubris. Maybe Japanese people are used to be so obedient to some almighty game system confining them and to such player harrassment, I just find that absurd.
So u do not play any games than??
I mean all games tell u what to do if its doing Raids for armor or crafting/farming for gold or an Ah to sell your stuff or only being able to lvl 1 job on your character or stopping u from gaining more lvls at the Max lvl the game allows or or or u see the list can become really long and the result would be u not playing any game.
Maybe some adults should have taught u to think before u speak might make u sound less stupid.
I find the issue is people are unwilling to work together and get in a good linkshell/guild. If you and 10 or so people work together, this is zero reason why you can't have people gathering requirements and people crafting. All to help each other out.
That is the mentality of people. Even casuals can work together. You can as a casual find someone and say hey, I don't have a lot of gil, but I can provide mats and additional mats for items? Gil doesn't seem abundant, so to me that seems the route this game is going purely a traded economy for the time being until higher levels.
That is true only if people can be so organized. That's not how things work, however. I got some friends to play and now they're frustrated. No we don't all get to play at the same time. Our times may be sporadic and we can't always group together. The mechanics and especially game model don't warrant for a good, solid enjoyment of a game. I am as much a fan of this game as anyone and have been a follower since development. I can't say i'm happy with anything right now but the graphics.
This game is not casual friendly, solo friendly or even group friendly unless you have a certain amount of people who can group at playtime on a consistant basis. The forced-community/crafter-economy mumbo jumbo is a flawed model that will be detrimental to this game.
Not really news here but I do have a lot of Japanese friends whom I chat with, according to them: the Japanese players themselves don't like this game.
All I read is a long assortment of restrictions bent upon players to force them to behave good, or what the developers thought was the good way to play a game. I don't like that idea of being set up into a certain way to play like they do at all. No AH so you communicate, XP limits for playtime to force you to make several professions... sorry, no thanks. I have zero will to play as if I were a kid and some adults have to show me how to play my games. What hubris. Maybe Japanese people are used to be so obedient to some almighty game system confining them and to such player harrassment, I just find that absurd.
You have to get your job up to level 20 to hit fatigue, not your physical lvl, but your job! Do you even know how long that takes! I've been playing at least 8-9 hours every day since it came out and my primary job just now hit level 15. Also, to have fatigue set in, you have to hit level 20 in under one weeks time before the reset. I have 2 days left to hit 20 and get my decay. Even if I magically got 5 levels in 2 days and hit 20, it would only reset right then because that is the one week period.
I have been through this thread and all I can see are two kinds of players. Pre WoW and After WoW. Pre WoW gamers tend to like FFXIV. After WoW gamers tend to find it… not so user friendly. Flame me all you want but WOW has brought in the trash to the MMO genre. Greedy, impatient, amoral and any kind of jack ass suddenly learned to play an MMO. So if a game wants to be called a "successful", it must satisfy all of the above mentioned “human needs”, as if WoW was the first ever MMO. A "successful" MMO is the one that can survive after many years and generate profit and people enjoy it. But It’s not Blizzard’s fault that people never played Ultima, EQ, DAoC or SWG (before it became a WoW clone) to see how things were done back then. It’s the New vs. Old all over again. No they were not perfect, neither is WoW. FFXIV is an old school MMO with modern graphics. Is that bad? Not for me, as I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online. If it’s going to keep out the mass market players of WoW and it’s clones, it’s fine by me. It’s the same reason EVE is such a joy to play. Nothing gets handed to you. Either you reach your full potential as a soloist and be just good or you reach greatness in a guild. So, what if FFXIV doesn’t have an AH yet? SE is well aware of that, you (the buyer) were well aware of that when you bought the game. Hell, everything about the game was well known before it hit the market.
So Skoamroth and the rest. You can’t complain about something you obviously new. You bought the CE, so you must have known what you were getting in to, unless you had 70€ τo burn. Complaining about FFXIV not being a casual friendly game, as advertised and not having an AH is way off, because:
You are already level 20 and you are looking for equipment to keep on leveling. Which means you are anything but casual. Ergo you can’t complain about it not being casual friendly. Btw, what's the rush?
It is like complaining that Dragon Age never gave you choices that mattered (well it didn’t, at least not before all those add-ons) when Bioware was advertising that... "your decision will come back to haunt you..." Yeah right. This is marketing and I find it difficult to believe that you and most of the rest of the gaming community would buy a game, simply because the developers said “our game will be casual friendly”. C’mon.
You knew it didn't have one and you should have known what to expect. Unless it's the first game you have played without one.
Read before you buy you say. Do a thorough search on the internet before you buy such a game (an MMO), is what I always say. I want to try this game and I am at my 4th forum reading about what people think. So If I buy it, it would be stupid for me to whine about it. Wouldn’t it? So do you feel cheated, let down by the game? I don’t think so. You wanted. no, you expected, to just pick up your next tier gear, hustle free and resume leveling, just as you would in WoW or another MMO with similar mechanics. When that didn’t happen you decided that this game suddenly sucks. So in my book, your frustration overshadows your good intentions towards would be buyers. But nevertheless I want to personally thank you, because your thread has inspired the rest of the guys and girls in here, to post many opinions. Most of which were actually helpful.
As for the rest, who are complaining about the game not having an AH. It is not stupid, since it is a thought out decision. They didn’t forget to put one in. It’s part of the design. As such I respect the decision of the designer, because he knows what’s best for his game and on the long run what’s best for the players. Let’s not fool ourselves, they only care about our money. But the only way to get our money is to keep us satisfied. So if they say it’s too soon for an AH. Then I will have to agree. After all it’s not a first, an MMO without an AH.
If you (not directed at Skoamroth) want a casual friendly MMO go play Free Realms. But if you are going to play an MMO there are 3 things you should make peace with. Its community, the grind and developer decisions.
I also will agree with the thought that an MMO is not a waste of money. You can easily play it for a month or more and never look back. That’s the point after all isn’t it? To play a game? Not every game is 100% enjoyment and perfect design and 0% grief and bad design decisions. No. Games are what they are with their flaws and we love them for it. MMO’s are the same. So on that account, go ahead and buy it.
What I understand until now about FFXIV is this and correct me if I’m wrong.
No, “take you by the hand” starting areas.
A versatile class system which gives you the freedom to combine skills from all the classes.
No AH but one will either come later down the line or they will implement a search option (I believe I read that on a fan site).
Soloable in the early stages up to a point, but it’s advised to join a linkshell later.
Crafting is reminiscent of SWG (before it became a WOW clone) which demands cooperation.
Some minor bugs and the occasional lag. Typical of an MMO’s lunch.
Beautiful World as far as I have seen.
Judging from FFXI, SE will make sure this will be a memorable experience, I hope minus the 18 hours boss fights.
Skoamroth the purpose of this post is not to flame you or anything. I would share your disappointment if it were any other game from another developer and if you had no idea about it. Since this is SE and since all of this was well known before its release, I fail to agree with the way you presented your opening statement. I am also tired of the new After WoW mentality that an MMO should be like a big Diablo game, pick up and play. New players (players that WoW was their first MMO) should take the time and learn something from the old players and especially form the old games. Sometimes less is more. Anyway. I do hope you find again enjoyment in this game even if it is months from now.
As for me…
I am put off by many things, as I don’t have much time to play. But the prospect of a community not filled with the mass market players and the record of SE gives me hope that I will enjoy it even for a month or two. Oh and I already love the crafting mechanics.
What I need to know since no one mentioned it is this:
How does the game handle death
How does the game handle loot. Is loot automatically given to the player even in a group?
Are there unique items, and what happened then?
Is there a link that explains all of these (It's my first thread I have read in this forum)?
though I've had some fun times grouping for leaves. I find myself spending most of my gaming time sitting in crafting hall - mind numbing, hitting the same key to build up all of the crafting to 10 just so i can make my own armor and shield. why do I do this, its because I'm one of those guys who rather build my own stuff rather spam, beg, shout in chat all day looking for the sh*t i need. i gave up on current bazaar style, 8+ instance zone u can port to with bunch of retainers standing close to each other, yeah.. good luck browsing for hours.
an occasional long session grinding mobs for mats and shard and back to the same grind again.. and its wearing me out fast.
Those of us that posted after Open beta tried to warn folks This game is, or should, go down with the other great MMO dissapointments like Vanguard SOH.
FFXIV took all that was bad about "challenging" MMOs (grind, worthless UI, obscure functions, unlabeled NPCs) and married all that crap to it's only redeeming quality, it's graphics look (and even that wears quickly).
As for "challenge" they failed completely. Anyone who thinks that simply making mobs hit hard or have lots of HPs is good game mechanics should remind themselves of how fast EQ lost subscribers to WoW, including ALL the hardcore raiding guilds. Good combat encounters require more than that. Square Enix, for tips on how to build good encounters see WoW raid events.
A little interdependency in crafting is a good thing. However, they just went way overboard here. There should have been basic armor and weapons you could craft with little hassle, with the best stuff requiring a lot of interdependency. These could have been seperate items, or just the same items with optional recipes that add more mats and produce higher quality gear.
The situation here is so complex, I quickly realized that to be efficient and profitable, a crafting organization will need spreadsheets and will have to develop flow charts, showing all the components and tracing backwards through all the resources needed and steps required to produce those components.
That all would be fine for Rare and Epic gear, but a weaver should be able to sit down with a needle, cloth and thread and make a basic tunic with out needing mats from four other professions!
Comments
After reading the thead I just bought the game. Will be interesting to see if the application and practice is as appealing as the concept, I hate AH's in mmo's.
Now to read through the million other threads here bashing the game and find out I just made a bad purchase
PS I got the CE is it worth it?
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
People played gamepads with XI at NA launch, too... and chat was quite lively. Constant conversations going on, people asking questions, people trying to answer said questions, people joking around. It was very lively.
I think it's more a sign of the times than anything else.
More people are about "being off by themselves, soloing" these days, and less about "interacting with others". It's endemic to most new MMOs in the past several years. Back when XI first came out, it was a very different time, and MMOs were still very much about community. People were social... I remember seeing gatherings of people in various games who were just hanging around talking for the sake of doing so.
While I was in FFXIV - post launch - and at a crowded Aetheryte crystal, I tried to strike up conversation with people... I'd ask a question... no response. Ask if anyone wanted to run some leves... no response. I'd remark on someone's name (if it was a reference to something)...no response. I'm surrounded by at least 2-3 dozen people, and you could hear a pin drop (so to speak).
I'd go back into the city (Ul'dah), go to an area like the markets where there's plenty of people... ask if anyone happens to know which merchant sells an item I needed, first in /say, then in /shout.. no answer.
From time to time, I'd see others asking questions or making comments.. I'd respond with an at least an "not sure, but I'll let you know if I find it" if someone asked where something was and I didn't know the answer. They'd either just say "thanks" and then not speak another word... or they wouldn't respond at all.
I'm sure others experiences are going to be different. But that was mine. And this was the case day after day, night after night for 3 days before I decided (for various reasons) to set FFXIV aside for now and let it bake a bit more.
It was very discouraging to me, to say the least, to find such an anti-social playerbase developing so quickly after launch.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
This.
Looking at the current generation of MMO's the last couple of years, the general trends in forum debates, I think the mindset and mentality of the current MMO playerbase has changed from what it was in the beginning.
Maybe after years of MMO gaming MMO gamers have grown jaded, grown insensitive and indifferent to a lot of pleasures that can also be had in MMO games. Maybe it is because the way these current gen MMO's are made stimulate solistic behaviour instead of community building. Fact is that it's a whole different atmosphere in MMORPG's and related forums like here than it used to be.
Times are a-changing, as they say.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I find the issue is people are unwilling to work together and get in a good linkshell/guild. If you and 10 or so people work together, this is zero reason why you can't have people gathering requirements and people crafting. All to help each other out.
That is the mentality of people. Even casuals can work together. You can as a casual find someone and say hey, I don't have a lot of gil, but I can provide mats and additional mats for items? Gil doesn't seem abundant, so to me that seems the route this game is going purely a traded economy for the time being until higher levels.
On some level I do agree with you. The AH thing will happen, though.
Theres nothing complex about this game, you hit either "1" or "2" during combat, solo 100% of the time(its harder to get xp in groups, i.e. if the party leader isnt around and you kill something pay heed to how much xp you get)
It is complex why it takes 15seconds of window pop up lag to craft an item I will admit. It's complex why any non-masochist would enjoy this game.
Oh why bother, you seem as doe-eyed as me when I bought the game, I only wish you would PM me 5 days into the game ok? I want to see how it works out for you.
Maybe this is what Square was thinking.
Make CE rediculously hard to progress, and do anything. So it forces a community to form, and many friends/LS's and cooperation to advance.
When SE "Standard Edition" comes out, they will be greeted by a very well established and welcoming community as they CE peeps in place will want to help the new SE's out because they remember how tough of a time doing jack squat was when they first started a week or so ago.
This will strengthen the community ten fold, and CE players will want to stay ahead so they can continue to teach the SE, and play with them. SE will want to catch up, always admiring the CE, making them give it there all! Then after the CE, and SE start to blend into one utopia of a community, and RMT'ers/Gold sellers figure it is near impossible to make $$$ when their is no region/trade chat/AH. They will leave forever. Then SE will magically go poof!!! AH!!! Everyone will be overjoyed, and 99% of the RMTers/Gold sellers will be gone for good, practically wiping the annoyince of Goldspam altogether.
The community lives happily ever after.
Heres what might actually happen though
SE joins world.
SE: Hey guys we noobs
CE: GTFO, U CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND WE ARE BITTER AND OUR COMMUNITY HAS BLED WITH US, YOU HAVE NO PLACE.
SE: )=
SE: /ragequit.
CE: See, us loyal CE buyers were all loyal FF fans, of people who liked the idea of the game enough to fork out extra cash and play for the long haul forming a community, while SE was only intended to register extra box sales for future content... FOR US!! MWAHAHAHHAHA
Regional chat: Haaaay guuuysss!!! What's goin on!
CE: FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now?
CE: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Very cheep!
Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Lowest price!
Gold spammers: Bob. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Me rovey rong time!
Gold spammers: Very cheep!Very cheep!Very cheep!Very cheep!
Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now?buy now? Me rovey rong time!
Gold spammers: big wong. buy now? Me rovey rong time!buy now? Me rovey rong time!buy now? Me rovey rong time!
Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now?Cheep gill, ru buy now?Cheep gill, ru buy now?
Gold spammers: little dong. Cheep gill, ru buy now?eep!Very cheep!Very cheep!eep!Very cheep!Very cheep!eep!Very cheep!Very cheep!
CE: Please stop!!!! For the love of god!!! I can't find my own text!!!!!
Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Very cheep!
Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Lowest price!
Gold spammers: Bob. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Me rovey rong time!
Gold spammers: Very cheep!Very cheep!Very cheep!Very cheep!
Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now?buy now? Me rovey rong time!
Gold spammers: big wong. buy now? Me rovey rong time!buy now? Me rovey rong time!buy now? Me rovey rong time!
Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now?Cheep gill, ru buy now?Cheep gill, ru buy now?
Gold spammers: little dong. Cheep gill, ru buy now?eep!Very cheep!Very cheep!eep!Very cheep!Very cheep!eep!Very cheep!Very cheep!
FFXV has been announced.
mmm pizza
I dont think the extra items you created for crafting quests stay with you. they only turn into higher quality levels for the quests.
[quote]
[i]Originally posted by secton[/i]
[b]Maybe this is what Square was thinking.[/b]
[b]Make CE rediculously hard to progress, and do anything. So it forces a community to form, and many friends/LS's and cooperation to advance.[/b]
When SE "Standard Edition" comes out, they will be greeted by a very well established and welcoming community as they CE peeps in place will want to help the new SE's out because they remember how tough of a time doing jack squat was when they first started a week or so ago.
[b]This will strengthen the community ten fold, and CE players will want to stay ahead so they can continue to teach the SE, and play with them. SE will want to catch up, always admiring the CE, making them give it there all! Then after the CE, and SE start to blend into one utopia of a community, and RMT'ers/Gold sellers figure it is near impossible to make $$$ when their is no region/trade chat/AH. They will leave forever. Then SE will magically go poof!!! AH!!! Everyone will be overjoyed, and 99% of the RMTers/Gold sellers will be gone for good, practically wiping the annoyince of Goldspam altogether.[/b]
[b]The community lives happily ever after.[/b]
[b] [/b]
[b] [/b]
[b]Heres what might actually happen though[/b]
[b]SE joins world.[/b]
[b]SE: Hey guys we noobs[/b]
[b]CE: GTFO, U CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND WE ARE BITTER AND OUR COMMUNITY HAS BLED WITH US, YOU HAVE NO PLACE.[/b]
[b]SE: )=[/b]
[b]SE: /ragequit.[/b]
[b]CE: See, us loyal CE buyers were all loyal FF fans, of people who liked the idea of the game enough to fork out extra cash and play for the long haul forming a community, while SE was only intended to register extra box sales for future content... FOR US!! MWAHAHAHHAHA[/b]
[b]Regional chat: Haaaay guuuysss!!! What's goin on![/b]
[b]CE: FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU[/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now?[/b]
[b]CE: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU[/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Very cheep![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Lowest price![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Bob. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Me rovey rong time![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Very cheep!Very cheep!Very cheep!Very cheep![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now?buy now? Me rovey rong time![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: big wong. buy now? Me rovey rong time!buy now? Me rovey rong time!buy now? Me rovey rong time![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now?Cheep gill, ru buy now?Cheep gill, ru buy now?[/b]
[b]Gold spammers: little dong. Cheep gill, ru buy now?eep!Very cheep!Very cheep!eep!Very cheep!Very cheep!eep!Very cheep!Very cheep![/b]
[b]CE: Please stop!!!! For the love of god!!! I can't find my own text!!!!![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Very cheep![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Lowest price![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Bob. Cheep gill, ru buy now? Me rovey rong time![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Very cheep!Very cheep!Very cheep!Very cheep![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now?buy now? Me rovey rong time![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: big wong. buy now? Me rovey rong time!buy now? Me rovey rong time!buy now? Me rovey rong time![/b]
[b]Gold spammers: Nihao. Cheep gill, ru buy now?Cheep gill, ru buy now?Cheep gill, ru buy now?[/b]
[b]Gold spammers: little dong. Cheep gill, ru buy now?eep!Very cheep!Very cheep!eep!Very cheep!Very cheep!eep!Very cheep!Very cheep![/b]
[b]FFXV has been announced.[/b]
[/quote]
Also, NICE inpersonation. so far you are the best i have ever seen.
You got to lvl 20 within 5 days of headstart. You are not CASUAL. Please stop this 'i am casual' nonsense please?
All I read is a long assortment of restrictions bent upon players to force them to behave good, or what the developers thought was the good way to play a game. I don't like that idea of being set up into a certain way to play like they do at all. No AH so you communicate, XP limits for playtime to force you to make several professions... sorry, no thanks. I have zero will to play as if I were a kid and some adults have to show me how to play my games. What hubris. Maybe Japanese people are used to be so obedient to some almighty game system confining them and to such player harrassment, I just find that absurd.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You know, is it a hobby of yours to praise bad games? First Tor, now here. I start to assume we were some war enemies in some past life, ya know. Always on the other side where I stand...
Games like this are the reason THE GAME THAT MUST NOT BE NAMED is such a success. It's not that THE GAME THAT MUST NOT BE NAMED is so good, the others are so awful.
A MMO without an AH is such a horrible idea, you have to be masochistic to like it. It's like someone published a 500 pages manual without an index. Yeah, sure, you could argue it is more eductating because it forces you to read the entire damn book every time you seek something, but I rather have what I seek, and not fall back behind known and proven was to make it easier to get right to what you want.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
So u do not play any games than??
I mean all games tell u what to do if its doing Raids for armor or crafting/farming for gold or an Ah to sell your stuff or only being able to lvl 1 job on your character or stopping u from gaining more lvls at the Max lvl the game allows or or or u see the list can become really long and the result would be u not playing any game.
Maybe some adults should have taught u to think before u speak might make u sound less stupid.
That is true only if people can be so organized. That's not how things work, however. I got some friends to play and now they're frustrated. No we don't all get to play at the same time. Our times may be sporadic and we can't always group together. The mechanics and especially game model don't warrant for a good, solid enjoyment of a game. I am as much a fan of this game as anyone and have been a follower since development. I can't say i'm happy with anything right now but the graphics.
This game is not casual friendly, solo friendly or even group friendly unless you have a certain amount of people who can group at playtime on a consistant basis. The forced-community/crafter-economy mumbo jumbo is a flawed model that will be detrimental to this game.
Not really news here but I do have a lot of Japanese friends whom I chat with, according to them: the Japanese players themselves don't like this game.
You have to get your job up to level 20 to hit fatigue, not your physical lvl, but your job! Do you even know how long that takes! I've been playing at least 8-9 hours every day since it came out and my primary job just now hit level 15. Also, to have fatigue set in, you have to hit level 20 in under one weeks time before the reset. I have 2 days left to hit 20 and get my decay. Even if I magically got 5 levels in 2 days and hit 20, it would only reset right then because that is the one week period.
This fatigue setting has no efect.
mmm pizza
I have been through this thread and all I can see are two kinds of players. Pre WoW and After WoW. Pre WoW gamers tend to like FFXIV. After WoW gamers tend to find it… not so user friendly. Flame me all you want but WOW has brought in the trash to the MMO genre. Greedy, impatient, amoral and any kind of jack ass suddenly learned to play an MMO. So if a game wants to be called a "successful", it must satisfy all of the above mentioned “human needs”, as if WoW was the first ever MMO. A "successful" MMO is the one that can survive after many years and generate profit and people enjoy it. But It’s not Blizzard’s fault that people never played Ultima, EQ, DAoC or SWG (before it became a WoW clone) to see how things were done back then. It’s the New vs. Old all over again. No they were not perfect, neither is WoW. FFXIV is an old school MMO with modern graphics. Is that bad? Not for me, as I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online. If it’s going to keep out the mass market players of WoW and it’s clones, it’s fine by me. It’s the same reason EVE is such a joy to play. Nothing gets handed to you. Either you reach your full potential as a soloist and be just good or you reach greatness in a guild. So, what if FFXIV doesn’t have an AH yet? SE is well aware of that, you (the buyer) were well aware of that when you bought the game. Hell, everything about the game was well known before it hit the market.
So Skoamroth and the rest. You can’t complain about something you obviously new. You bought the CE, so you must have known what you were getting in to, unless you had 70€ τo burn. Complaining about FFXIV not being a casual friendly game, as advertised and not having an AH is way off, because:
You are already level 20 and you are looking for equipment to keep on leveling. Which means you are anything but casual. Ergo you can’t complain about it not being casual friendly. Btw, what's the rush?
It is like complaining that Dragon Age never gave you choices that mattered (well it didn’t, at least not before all those add-ons) when Bioware was advertising that... "your decision will come back to haunt you..." Yeah right. This is marketing and I find it difficult to believe that you and most of the rest of the gaming community would buy a game, simply because the developers said “our game will be casual friendly”. C’mon.
You knew it didn't have one and you should have known what to expect. Unless it's the first game you have played without one.
Read before you buy you say. Do a thorough search on the internet before you buy such a game (an MMO), is what I always say. I want to try this game and I am at my 4th forum reading about what people think. So If I buy it, it would be stupid for me to whine about it. Wouldn’t it? So do you feel cheated, let down by the game? I don’t think so. You wanted. no, you expected, to just pick up your next tier gear, hustle free and resume leveling, just as you would in WoW or another MMO with similar mechanics. When that didn’t happen you decided that this game suddenly sucks. So in my book, your frustration overshadows your good intentions towards would be buyers. But nevertheless I want to personally thank you, because your thread has inspired the rest of the guys and girls in here, to post many opinions. Most of which were actually helpful.
As for the rest, who are complaining about the game not having an AH. It is not stupid, since it is a thought out decision. They didn’t forget to put one in. It’s part of the design. As such I respect the decision of the designer, because he knows what’s best for his game and on the long run what’s best for the players. Let’s not fool ourselves, they only care about our money. But the only way to get our money is to keep us satisfied. So if they say it’s too soon for an AH. Then I will have to agree. After all it’s not a first, an MMO without an AH.
If you (not directed at Skoamroth) want a casual friendly MMO go play Free Realms. But if you are going to play an MMO there are 3 things you should make peace with. Its community, the grind and developer decisions.
I also will agree with the thought that an MMO is not a waste of money. You can easily play it for a month or more and never look back. That’s the point after all isn’t it? To play a game? Not every game is 100% enjoyment and perfect design and 0% grief and bad design decisions. No. Games are what they are with their flaws and we love them for it. MMO’s are the same. So on that account, go ahead and buy it.
What I understand until now about FFXIV is this and correct me if I’m wrong.
No, “take you by the hand” starting areas.
A versatile class system which gives you the freedom to combine skills from all the classes.
No AH but one will either come later down the line or they will implement a search option (I believe I read that on a fan site).
Soloable in the early stages up to a point, but it’s advised to join a linkshell later.
Crafting is reminiscent of SWG (before it became a WOW clone) which demands cooperation.
Some minor bugs and the occasional lag. Typical of an MMO’s lunch.
Beautiful World as far as I have seen.
Judging from FFXI, SE will make sure this will be a memorable experience, I hope minus the 18 hours boss fights.
Skoamroth the purpose of this post is not to flame you or anything. I would share your disappointment if it were any other game from another developer and if you had no idea about it. Since this is SE and since all of this was well known before its release, I fail to agree with the way you presented your opening statement. I am also tired of the new After WoW mentality that an MMO should be like a big Diablo game, pick up and play. New players (players that WoW was their first MMO) should take the time and learn something from the old players and especially form the old games. Sometimes less is more. Anyway. I do hope you find again enjoyment in this game even if it is months from now.
As for me…
I am put off by many things, as I don’t have much time to play. But the prospect of a community not filled with the mass market players and the record of SE gives me hope that I will enjoy it even for a month or two. Oh and I already love the crafting mechanics.
What I need to know since no one mentioned it is this:
How does the game handle death
How does the game handle loot. Is loot automatically given to the player even in a group?
Are there unique items, and what happened then?
Is there a link that explains all of these (It's my first thread I have read in this forum)?
Thanks for your time.
Well, the graphics are nice.
I think it's silly to view multiplayer online as having to group up or else. No one here is qualified to define an MMO.
I'm with the OP on this one.
though I've had some fun times grouping for leaves. I find myself spending most of my gaming time sitting in crafting hall - mind numbing, hitting the same key to build up all of the crafting to 10 just so i can make my own armor and shield. why do I do this, its because I'm one of those guys who rather build my own stuff rather spam, beg, shout in chat all day looking for the sh*t i need. i gave up on current bazaar style, 8+ instance zone u can port to with bunch of retainers standing close to each other, yeah.. good luck browsing for hours.
an occasional long session grinding mobs for mats and shard and back to the same grind again.. and its wearing me out fast.
Those of us that posted after Open beta tried to warn folks
This game is, or should, go down with the other great MMO dissapointments like Vanguard SOH.
FFXIV took all that was bad about "challenging" MMOs (grind, worthless UI, obscure functions, unlabeled NPCs) and married all that crap to it's only redeeming quality, it's graphics look (and even that wears quickly).
As for "challenge" they failed completely. Anyone who thinks that simply making mobs hit hard or have lots of HPs is good game mechanics should remind themselves of how fast EQ lost subscribers to WoW, including ALL the hardcore raiding guilds. Good combat encounters require more than that. Square Enix, for tips on how to build good encounters see WoW raid events.
Think I'll use the game as whatever for now. Maybe fish a lot or something. Still got a free month lol.
A little interdependency in crafting is a good thing. However, they just went way overboard here. There should have been basic armor and weapons you could craft with little hassle, with the best stuff requiring a lot of interdependency. These could have been seperate items, or just the same items with optional recipes that add more mats and produce higher quality gear.
The situation here is so complex, I quickly realized that to be efficient and profitable, a crafting organization will need spreadsheets and will have to develop flow charts, showing all the components and tracing backwards through all the resources needed and steps required to produce those components.
That all would be fine for Rare and Epic gear, but a weaver should be able to sit down with a needle, cloth and thread and make a basic tunic with out needing mats from four other professions!
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