Also, people grouping together... is annoying? Splitting rewards and exp... is frustrating? Aren't these the tenents that all MMO's strive for, to encourage grouping and make it fun and rewarding for everyone?
If I remember correctly, the devs in one of the various gameplay videos (I think it was the ranger or necromancer one) stated that rewards/xp/etc aren't split for grouping. In fact, there's no penalty for grouping, either ad hoc (That guy needs help! KILL HIS TARGET!) or more traditional. Instead, they were going to actually duplicate item drops/xp/gold/etc so that grouping didn't "punish" you, but instead rewarded you with having someone to play with.
I'll see if I can find the video where they stated it, because this is one of the nice features of the game I'm looking forward to.
I'm really hoping the Dynamic Events allow a lot of repeatability and variability, "Let's try this one again, maybe with fewer/more people and see what's different," or "Last time I was here x was happening, but this looks different now...," or "I missed this part of this Dynamic Event before because another Dynamic Event distracted me away, maybe I'll see a new part of it & The Centaurs appear to have won the last round it seems this time," or "I really enjoyed thisDynamic Event with the Grawl, I'm gonna do it again several times when it cycles back."
It's a big ask, for sure to pull this off, and the Dynamic Events have got to be very very dense with content and preferably very large & interconnected.
The fact that players will be able to come back in their own time to do them, unlike PQ's which were so much inefficient content: Too many ppl when they were new, and too few ppl when they were old, is already a big improvement.
dynamic event makes me think of what eve is/was trying to do[?]
i also think dynamic event might become a little too messy if there are too many players in one place (for example; quest tells you to kill bandits and 500+ people are in the event in such a small zone, the question is will you be able to kill one before others kill it?)
The last thing I would expect is people to fight in perfect lines in combat which is suppose to be well messy. :P Unlikely you might see that many people. The events are unpredictable, you don't know when it's going to happen. And an event may not even last very long enough for people to start gathering up in numbers you've mentioned and when it's done people scatter. You don't get a world-wide announcement that this event is taking place.
Anet says that they want everyone to be everyones friend - well that's good untill a certain number of people start gathering in one spot then everyone will hate each other. People will get annoyed and become frustrated if there are too many players in the same spot even if xp and loot is disturbuted evenly. i just hope that guildwar 2 will have many servers instead of just the 3 servers for the WvWvW
also i find article title funny cuz last time i checked solo means "a person who works, acts, or performs alone" but togethermeans "into or in union, proximity, contact, or collision, as two or more things" so i'm not sure if it was suppose to be funny or not?
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
ya 3 novel have to come out before ;( my guess GW2 will come out during Summer 2011
I would rather they release it next summer then rush it out and kill it like many games have the last few years. I am personally tired of buying a new MMO only to find out I am in pay to beta for a year or more(or in DDOs case I was a 4 year pay to beta tester). I hope they take the time to get the game right and then release it.
What I have seen so far has me really hopeful that GW2 is as much fun or more then I had with the original.
Also, people grouping together... is annoying? Splitting rewards and exp... is frustrating? Aren't these the tenents that all MMO's strive for, to encourage grouping and make it fun and rewarding for everyone?
If I remember correctly, the devs in one of the various gameplay videos (I think it was the ranger or necromancer one) stated that rewards/xp/etc aren't split for grouping. In fact, there's no penalty for grouping, either ad hoc (That guy needs help! KILL HIS TARGET!) or more traditional. Instead, they were going to actually duplicate item drops/xp/gold/etc so that grouping didn't "punish" you, but instead rewarded you with having someone to play with.
I'll see if I can find the video where they stated it, because this is one of the nice features of the game I'm looking forward to.
And, in fact, here it is.
Grouping doesn't punish you, it's a net reward.
They specifically say you don't steal XP, and that everyone shares equally in both the xp and the reward, which leads to the conclusion that it "duplicates" items, unless the person misspoke.
It's good to hear and i continue to be more and more impressed by GW2. My concern with this design is the rate at which the dynamic events will scale. If it's not a "smooth curve," power gamers will quickly find a "sweet spot" in the PC v Mob ratio. Any random player entering the area who moves the event away from that "sweet spot" will quickly be flamed by said power gamers.
The beauty of this system is that it allows player groups to evolve in a dynamic way , it should work out so that players are happy to follow each other through events and build relationships, something that can't be forced and only happens organically, it's a perfect system for allowing the growth of a community rather than trying to force one.
I agree. This is how it sort of worked in Asheron's Call. In the Lugian Citadel, Tusker Dens, etc... people would all be fighting the same mobs in the same spawn. After Turbine made adjustments to how group xp was handled, people would form groups in these places to earn better xps. Basically, Turbine made areas where people would flock to and made a reason to group.
ANet is taking it a step further and not only making it so that you don't "have" to be in a group to actually be cooperative, they also made grouping rewarding...or not penalizing.
This is how grouping should have been in mmorpgs during the entire history of the game.
Originally posted by parrotpholkGW2 sounds on paper like the perfect game but seems they are promising the world and we all know how that goes. I very much want to see the game in action.
45 minutes of gameplay with an emphasis on dynamic events. The actual gameplay begins at 5:14 of the first video if you want to skip the explanation at the beginning.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
It's good to hear and i continue to be more and more impressed by GW2. My concern with this design is the rate at which the dynamic events will scale. If it's not a "smooth curve," power gamers will quickly find a "sweet spot" in the PC v Mob ratio. Any random player entering the area who moves the event away from that "sweet spot" will quickly be flamed by said power gamers.
That is a concern, ArenaNet have already said they are not revealing how the scaling parameters work for just that reason. So they have anticipated this already (good to see). Apparently the scaling occurs in a matter of seconds, so it's very responsive. But we all know how creative players can be.
It's good to hear and i continue to be more and more impressed by GW2. My concern with this design is the rate at which the dynamic events will scale. If it's not a "smooth curve," power gamers will quickly find a "sweet spot" in the PC v Mob ratio. Any random player entering the area who moves the event away from that "sweet spot" will quickly be flamed by said power gamers.
Though I imagine most power gamers will find something to complain about, I doubt the dynamic event scaling will be plagued by issues like this. Arena.net has shown they actually know how to make a polished game, and I doubt something like this would ever create an issue.
Throw in the fact that the leveling curve is already known to plateau (in terms of time required to level) fairly fast instead of being exponential (in other words, it seems like a very steep logarithmic curve), and if the power gamers end up complaining, then they're just being selfish about a game that is trying to be as huge a not-grind as possible, with other reasons than base repetition to want to head out and explore.
If GW2 lives up to its expectations, it may show people how MMO's are supposed to be, and destroy the disilusion that WoW is the ultimate MMO and a model to strive for. Sadly, however, I fear people will still strive for WoW's skinnerian style of game design.
Yeah we kind of already knew this. It was obvious that we could just join a random event. It's not really soloing because you're still working with other people reguardless of whether you're grouped or not.
Another potential exploit that would need to be adressed is sort of the opposite AFK players within the event zone, and that is having a large group of players outside the event zone when the event commences, then having them rush in to slay everything, followed by quickly running back out of the event zone. Ie. 1 player starts an event and has it scaled in diffuculty to suit 1 player. 10 players wait outside the event zone. 2-3 bandits rush in to attack; 10 players rush in and slay them, then dart back out before the next "wave" comes, so the difficulty is reset once again.
There are many ways to prevent this, I'm just bringing it up as something that will need to be taken into account.
Sounds like what Asheron's Call used to do with Bael'Zarron and the Shadows. The shout would go out that a unique event was starting (shadows attack Qalabar, Bael'Zarron starts kicking Teth's ass etc) and everyone near would pour in to help out or take amusing screenshots of corpse piles.
Late arrivals would see some aftermath and hear some cool stories, but the early birds would actuallty reap the rewards (or have to corpse-run of course.)
Unique, GM-controlled world events are what will make a game stand out from everything else in the MMO world. Imagine the day when a GM takes control of a large sea-monster or dragon and starts rampaging across the scenery until a particular objective is met (eat X people, reach and destroy building Y etc). Local activities are disrupted as NPCs are devoured or flee, something out of the ordinary grind makes the game interesting and you don't know where and when it will happen next!
GW2 seems to be taking a step toward this, with dynamic events. The unique events don't have to happen often or regularly to have a profound impact, particularly if they then spawn paths of quests to follow (dragon is defeated, wonder where it's lair/treasure is....?) . This system sounds interesting and I hope will evolve into that tailored content which will take MMO immersion to the next level.
That kind of griefing Homitu would take a very large amount of players and would not go unnoticed by the developers. I'm pretty sure the ban hammer would hit pretty hard in that event. I think they have a handle on it, but you can't program around everything, sometimes it takes knocking a few heads around to get the picture painted clearly enough for those too thick to get the message.
Originally posted by Scot It does seem to be the same hype wrapped in a different wrapper for sure. The ideas are sound, the implementation is where it could all go wrong.
I agree. They have been hyping it a little too much, especially in the Manifesto video. However, everything they've actually shown in videos or explained in specific, unhyped detail (such as in several Q&A's) looks really good. So as skeptical as I always am of unreleased MMO's, I think I really believe them this time.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
It does seem to be the same hype wrapped in a differant wrapper for sure. The ideas are sound, the implementation is where it could all go wrong.
That's the common concern. And fortunetely so far, everytime someone has gotten the opportunty to play GW2, they've confirmed that the devolopers are actually walking the walk. Obviously there's still a lot that remains to be seen, but reports are good so far.
That might not be that bad, kind of reminds me of old EQ. Now that was a great game, never gonna top that. That how that was setup and it had a way of forcing more community relaions, good or bad which just adds such a bettr dynamic to the game. I am really wondering if anyone know when the GW2 is set to come out. Cant seem to find any info online.
Comments
If I remember correctly, the devs in one of the various gameplay videos (I think it was the ranger or necromancer one) stated that rewards/xp/etc aren't split for grouping. In fact, there's no penalty for grouping, either ad hoc (That guy needs help! KILL HIS TARGET!) or more traditional. Instead, they were going to actually duplicate item drops/xp/gold/etc so that grouping didn't "punish" you, but instead rewarded you with having someone to play with.
I'll see if I can find the video where they stated it, because this is one of the nice features of the game I'm looking forward to.
I'm really hoping the Dynamic Events allow a lot of repeatability and variability, "Let's try this one again, maybe with fewer/more people and see what's different," or "Last time I was here x was happening, but this looks different now...," or "I missed this part of this Dynamic Event before because another Dynamic Event distracted me away, maybe I'll see a new part of it & The Centaurs appear to have won the last round it seems this time," or "I really enjoyed thisDynamic Event with the Grawl, I'm gonna do it again several times when it cycles back."
It's a big ask, for sure to pull this off, and the Dynamic Events have got to be very very dense with content and preferably very large & interconnected.
The fact that players will be able to come back in their own time to do them, unlike PQ's which were so much inefficient content: Too many ppl when they were new, and too few ppl when they were old, is already a big improvement.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
I would rather they release it next summer then rush it out and kill it like many games have the last few years. I am personally tired of buying a new MMO only to find out I am in pay to beta for a year or more(or in DDOs case I was a 4 year pay to beta tester). I hope they take the time to get the game right and then release it.
What I have seen so far has me really hopeful that GW2 is as much fun or more then I had with the original.
And, in fact, here it is.
Grouping doesn't punish you, it's a net reward.
They specifically say you don't steal XP, and that everyone shares equally in both the xp and the reward, which leads to the conclusion that it "duplicates" items, unless the person misspoke.
It's good to hear and i continue to be more and more impressed by GW2. My concern with this design is the rate at which the dynamic events will scale. If it's not a "smooth curve," power gamers will quickly find a "sweet spot" in the PC v Mob ratio. Any random player entering the area who moves the event away from that "sweet spot" will quickly be flamed by said power gamers.
I agree. This is how it sort of worked in Asheron's Call. In the Lugian Citadel, Tusker Dens, etc... people would all be fighting the same mobs in the same spawn. After Turbine made adjustments to how group xp was handled, people would form groups in these places to earn better xps. Basically, Turbine made areas where people would flock to and made a reason to group.
ANet is taking it a step further and not only making it so that you don't "have" to be in a group to actually be cooperative, they also made grouping rewarding...or not penalizing.
This is how grouping should have been in mmorpgs during the entire history of the game.
Ask and you shall receive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1kN4Bccx2M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE5ZE4SebTk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STsjcWT4XSA
45 minutes of gameplay with an emphasis on dynamic events. The actual gameplay begins at 5:14 of the first video if you want to skip the explanation at the beginning.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
That is a concern, ArenaNet have already said they are not revealing how the scaling parameters work for just that reason. So they have anticipated this already (good to see). Apparently the scaling occurs in a matter of seconds, so it's very responsive. But we all know how creative players can be.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Though I imagine most power gamers will find something to complain about, I doubt the dynamic event scaling will be plagued by issues like this. Arena.net has shown they actually know how to make a polished game, and I doubt something like this would ever create an issue.
Throw in the fact that the leveling curve is already known to plateau (in terms of time required to level) fairly fast instead of being exponential (in other words, it seems like a very steep logarithmic curve), and if the power gamers end up complaining, then they're just being selfish about a game that is trying to be as huge a not-grind as possible, with other reasons than base repetition to want to head out and explore.
If GW2 lives up to its expectations, it may show people how MMO's are supposed to be, and destroy the disilusion that WoW is the ultimate MMO and a model to strive for. Sadly, however, I fear people will still strive for WoW's skinnerian style of game design.
Yeah we kind of already knew this. It was obvious that we could just join a random event. It's not really soloing because you're still working with other people reguardless of whether you're grouped or not.
FORCED GROUPING ZOMG
I'm just kiddin
I'm all chill about that actually
Another potential exploit that would need to be adressed is sort of the opposite AFK players within the event zone, and that is having a large group of players outside the event zone when the event commences, then having them rush in to slay everything, followed by quickly running back out of the event zone. Ie. 1 player starts an event and has it scaled in diffuculty to suit 1 player. 10 players wait outside the event zone. 2-3 bandits rush in to attack; 10 players rush in and slay them, then dart back out before the next "wave" comes, so the difficulty is reset once again.
There are many ways to prevent this, I'm just bringing it up as something that will need to be taken into account.
Sounds like what Asheron's Call used to do with Bael'Zarron and the Shadows. The shout would go out that a unique event was starting (shadows attack Qalabar, Bael'Zarron starts kicking Teth's ass etc) and everyone near would pour in to help out or take amusing screenshots of corpse piles.
Late arrivals would see some aftermath and hear some cool stories, but the early birds would actuallty reap the rewards (or have to corpse-run of course.)
Unique, GM-controlled world events are what will make a game stand out from everything else in the MMO world. Imagine the day when a GM takes control of a large sea-monster or dragon and starts rampaging across the scenery until a particular objective is met (eat X people, reach and destroy building Y etc). Local activities are disrupted as NPCs are devoured or flee, something out of the ordinary grind makes the game interesting and you don't know where and when it will happen next!
GW2 seems to be taking a step toward this, with dynamic events. The unique events don't have to happen often or regularly to have a profound impact, particularly if they then spawn paths of quests to follow (dragon is defeated, wonder where it's lair/treasure is....?) . This system sounds interesting and I hope will evolve into that tailored content which will take MMO immersion to the next level.
Good luck GW2!
This is a great development. Drop quests are bad. questgiver quests in general are bad and ruin the immersion.
[Mod Edit]
I don't even believe in Jeebus.
That kind of griefing Homitu would take a very large amount of players and would not go unnoticed by the developers. I'm pretty sure the ban hammer would hit pretty hard in that event. I think they have a handle on it, but you can't program around everything, sometimes it takes knocking a few heads around to get the picture painted clearly enough for those too thick to get the message.
Archlinux ftw
I am actually looking forward more to GW2 then SWTOR.
please i need a release date!
It does seem to be the same hype wrapped in a differant wrapper for sure. The ideas are sound, the implementation is where it could all go wrong.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
That's the common concern. And fortunetely so far, everytime someone has gotten the opportunty to play GW2, they've confirmed that the devolopers are actually walking the walk. Obviously there's still a lot that remains to be seen, but reports are good so far.
That might not be that bad, kind of reminds me of old EQ. Now that was a great game, never gonna top that. That how that was setup and it had a way of forcing more community relaions, good or bad which just adds such a bettr dynamic to the game. I am really wondering if anyone know when the GW2 is set to come out. Cant seem to find any info online.
Only ArenaNet knows when it is scheduled to come out, and they probably don't even know for sure.
Nothing new......