The community i fear its going to be worse then the dreaded wow
Lurking around here, I too fear this might be the case. Much pointless arguing and anger, sadly reminding me of my WOW days, I left behind. Factions politicking about hairraising stuff. It's why most of my friends don't post in game forums at all.
Once the few butthurt ex-SWG players that can't get over something that happened to a game 5 years ago stop stomping their feet whining how this isn't SWG2 finally go away, it'll get better.
I wasn't referring to them. I am sure you get the idea.
My biggest concern is that maybe they will listen to some of the doubters and start trying to make this SWG2.
I've had that same fear myself, DE kind of alleviated that fear in a way with his statements about Space travel, as it said to me they were sticking to their own vision regardless of the complaints they've received over it. Which IMO is the best couse of action.
While it's good to listen and get a sense of what people who aren't already hooked, want in their games, it's a horrible decision to attempt to cater to complaints that go against your foundation. IMO if they start doing that the game is most certainly doomed, as they will fall victim to the scope plague that has eaten up many a good game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That the SW IP has been committed to a shallow, cartoonish game aimed at 10-16 year olds thereby blocking the creation of a good, sophisticated SW sandbox sim until the failure of this one.
Sorry to break this to you, but thats the star wars audience, always has been, dont know where youve been.
Thats kinda why, you know, lightsabers in teh original trilogy dont actually do anything when luke hits people with it, it doesnt even sever limbs aside from teh first time we see it, and thats just to show there dangerous.
Oh, and well never see another sandbox star wars game, cause no one wants it, the vast majority of star wars fans dont want to sit around farming moisture, they want to go out and kick ass, get over it, SWG is gone and its NEVER coming back, if you want to play a star wars sandbox so mkuch why dont you go play a real sandbox game, its called star wars d20, where the majority of the people who would play a star wars sandbox are gonna play.
. I'm a bit worried why you have so much negativity to direct toward a sandbox version of Star Wars, though.
I have no negativity towards a star wars sandbox game, i would likely play it, heck im playing minecraft right now and thats more of a sandbox than any mmo out there, its the fact that people cant accept that this isnt a sandbox, this isnt SWG2, never was meant to be never will be, and people cant accept that.
I dont expect much from the extremely immature SWG vets though, theve proved time and time again how how immature and childish they behave.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
The community i fear its going to be worse then the dreaded wow
Lurking around here, I too fear this might be the case. Much pointless arguing and anger, sadly reminding me of my WOW days, I left behind. Factions politicking about hairraising stuff. It's why most of my friends don't post in game forums at all.
Once the few butthurt ex-SWG players that can't get over something that happened to a game 5 years ago stop stomping their feet whining how this isn't SWG2 finally go away, it'll get better.
I wasn't referring to them. I am sure you get the idea.
You are absolutley right. the SWG vets are some of the worst and relentless people in the MMO community. Hell, they even caused some poor guy... eh nevermind. I just hope some of these whiners do not show up in chat spewing their crap. I almost like how nobody says anything in FF14 right now in chat, because that means I don't have to listen to the 25 percent of the community that just wants to complain.
One of my most disgusted times in my whole MMO history was the day they held that memorial for an ex swg dev, swg players and vets made a mockery of the whole thing and /puked on the memorial. I can't recall a time I have ever been more embarrassed or disgusted.
My major concern about ToR is that so many people have so many high expectations, some of which conflict with others, that I believe that about 50% of the people who try it will be unhappy and will flood these forums with why they hate the game. That is not saying that it will be a bad game, but that no Developer would be able to satisfy all the expectations I have read about. My opinion.
I find it ironic that there are people who focus on the flaming here and there going on in these forums and think it'll be representative for how debased a SW:TOR community ingame will be, while at the same the same people seem to be glossing over and ignoring all the interesting threads and constructive debates that are also happening, as if those don't matter.
Or neglecting the fact that the flamewars and negative discussions aren't just happening on the SW:TOR section, but far more in the majority of the game forums here on mmorpg.com.
Well, truth be told, I was a passive lurker here for some two years, and every time I preferred to stay in the background because of many flame posts here. Now that I started to play FFXIV I wanted to share some insights. (That, and the fact my boys just started school gave me some more time.)
I can't say if forum talks are representative, but I can definitely say that forum conversations have a huge impact on what I play. It just makes me feel unwell when I see people engulfed in turf wars. At some point I just don't care who is right and who is wrong, but it creates an atmosphere, where I just don't want to be, and so far Star Was TOR looks like the most flaming subforum. Maybe it's to be expected with Star Wars, but it makes me feel uncomfortable. It just went that way in WOW. First forums started to become turf wars and then ingame it went downhill, so it was a bad lesson I learned to avoid games with too aggressive fans, who yell down everyone who doesn't praise everything a game company does.
I find it ironic that there are people who focus on the flaming here and there going on in these forums and think it'll be representative for how debased a SW:TOR community ingame will be, while at the same the same people seem to be glossing over and ignoring all the interesting threads and constructive debates that are also happening, as if those don't matter.
Or neglecting the fact that the flamewars and negative discussions aren't just happening on the SW:TOR section, but far more in the majority of the game forums here on mmorpg.com.
Well, truth be told, I was a passive lurker here for some two years, and every time I preferred to stay in the background because of many flame posts here. Now that I started to play FFXIV I wanted to share some insights. (That, and the fact my boys just started school gave me some more time.)
I can't say if forum talks are representative, but I can definitely say that forum conversations have a huge impact on what I play. It just makes me feel unwell when I see people engulfed in turf wars. At some point I just don't care who is right and who is wrong, but it creates an atmosphere, where I just don't want to be, and so far Star Was TOR looks like the most flaming subforum. Maybe it's to be expected with Star Wars, but it makes me feel uncomfortable. It just went that way in WOW. First forums started to become turf wars and then ingame it went downhill, so it was a bad lesson I learned to avoid games with too aggressive fans, who yell down everyone who doesn't praise everything a game company does.
I can garuntee you if you go bashing any game on this forum you will always have somebody there trying to defend the game like they made it themselves. Go to ff14, gw2, rift, wow, aion, ANY forum and post something negative and you will see these kind of responses. Let's not pretend like this is just TOR.
The community i fear its going to be worse then the dreaded wow
Lurking around here, I too fear this might be the case. Much pointless arguing and anger, sadly reminding me of my WOW days, I left behind. Factions politicking about hairraising stuff. It's why most of my friends don't post in game forums at all.
Once the few butthurt ex-SWG players that can't get over something that happened to a game 5 years ago stop stomping their feet whining how this isn't SWG2 finally go away, it'll get better.
I wasn't referring to them. I am sure you get the idea.
You are absolutley right. the SWG vets are some of the worst and relentless people in the MMO community. Hell, they even caused some poor guy... eh nevermind. I just hope some of these whiners do not show up in chat spewing their crap. I almost like how nobody says anything in FF14 right now in chat, because that means I don't have to listen to the 25 percent of the community that just wants to complain.
One of my most disgusted times in my whole MMO history was the day they held that memorial for an ex swg dev, swg players and vets made a mockery of the whole thing and /puked on the memorial. I can't recall a time I have ever been more embarrassed or disgusted.
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Whiners can cause things to improve. Fans make them all ever stay as they are. Go figure.
The community i fear its going to be worse then the dreaded wow
Lurking around here, I too fear this might be the case. Much pointless arguing and anger, sadly reminding me of my WOW days, I left behind. Factions politicking about hairraising stuff. It's why most of my friends don't post in game forums at all.
Once the few butthurt ex-SWG players that can't get over something that happened to a game 5 years ago stop stomping their feet whining how this isn't SWG2 finally go away, it'll get better.
I wasn't referring to them. I am sure you get the idea.
You are absolutley right. the SWG vets are some of the worst and relentless people in the MMO community. Hell, they even caused some poor guy... eh nevermind. I just hope some of these whiners do not show up in chat spewing their crap. I almost like how nobody says anything in FF14 right now in chat, because that means I don't have to listen to the 25 percent of the community that just wants to complain.
One of my most disgusted times in my whole MMO history was the day they held that memorial for an ex swg dev, swg players and vets made a mockery of the whole thing and /puked on the memorial. I can't recall a time I have ever been more embarrassed or disgusted.
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Whiners can cause things to improve. Fans make them all ever stay as they are. Go figure.
I agree with you. There are a list of things I do not like about this game myself, but posting it on this forum would be a waste of my time. I will say how feel about it though. Just like when they had the space crap going on. I wasn't very happy with it and I stated it in my post.
Some things you may not like, are things that I do like, though. I will not change my point of view about it because you think it makes me a fanboy.
Themepark? It is fine with me.
VO? I like it.
Species? Perfectly acceptable with me, I just want to play the damn game, they have enough choices in my opinion. I also understand why they don't want certain species.
Trinity? I have no problem with it, if that is the case. They have this in almost every game anyhow.
Graphics? I don't see a problem with them.
Animations? I thought they were pretty good. Nothing too over the top like you see in some games, and Imp agent looks beast. Makes it look more realistic and tactical in my opinion.
Of course there are some things I do not like, but most of the things people complain about do not bother me one bit. To each their own.
My biggest concern is that if this iteration of the SW genre MMO fails, they might not make another one down the line to try to capture the magic.....
mostly this!
Im also concerned about how the endgame content will look like and how the pvp works out, i cant stand a game with miserable pvp content. But -> Im not going to buy the game because of pvp, im going to buy it because of the epic bioware story, im not a great star wars fan, im more a fan of bioware and their games. This gets me to another point im concerned about -> time. Will i have enough time to play all the characters? im pretty much near the last 3 semester and cant afford to screw it up...
Playing: Global Agenda / Vindictus ----------------- Excited for: Guild Wars 2 / TERA / SWTOR ----------------- Have Played: Ultima Online, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, CoH/CoV, EverQuest 1+2, Tabula Rasa, DDO, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Champions Online, Aion, FLYFF, ArchLord, Metin 2, DAoC, APB, CC, Darkfall and many many more ----------------- Favorite MMO: Ultima Online
I find it ironic that there are people who focus on the flaming here and there going on in these forums and think it'll be representative for how debased a SW:TOR community ingame will be, while at the same the same people seem to be glossing over and ignoring all the interesting threads and constructive debates that are also happening, as if those don't matter.
Or neglecting the fact that the flamewars and negative discussions aren't just happening on the SW:TOR section, but far more in the majority of the game forums here on mmorpg.com.
Well, truth be told, I was a passive lurker here for some two years, and every time I preferred to stay in the background because of many flame posts here. Now that I started to play FFXIV I wanted to share some insights. (That, and the fact my boys just started school gave me some more time.)
I can't say if forum talks are representative, but I can definitely say that forum conversations have a huge impact on what I play. It just makes me feel unwell when I see people engulfed in turf wars. At some point I just don't care who is right and who is wrong, but it creates an atmosphere, where I just don't want to be, and so far Star Was TOR looks like the most flaming subforum. Maybe it's to be expected with Star Wars, but it makes me feel uncomfortable. It just went that way in WOW. First forums started to become turf wars and then ingame it went downhill, so it was a bad lesson I learned to avoid games with too aggressive fans, who yell down everyone who doesn't praise everything a game company does.
I can garuntee you if you go bashing any game on this forum you will always have somebody there trying to defend the game like they made it themselves. Go to ff14, gw2, rift, wow, aion, ANY forum and post something negative and you will see these kind of responses. Let's not pretend like this is just TOR.
True, everywhere critizsing is called bashing or whining by the fans, and to like something is called fanboism by the others. You get that in every conflict. See Northern Ireland, see Israel VS Palestine. Every side claims to be right and calls the other side the culprit. Form the outside you don't care, you just decide to stay away.
I just find it of note that the FFXIV forum seems to overall agree in the critique. We who play FFXIV know the flaws and I haven't seen a big issue about the flaws of the game. We know them, most agree and that's it. Rift and GW2 are yet mostly positively welcome. Wow and Aion usually also have the agreement in what isn't working well. But Wow, Aion and FFXIV are released. SWTOR is still half a year or more away, and already all is bursting with flames everywhere, so I sometimes wonder if a game can even succeed now with such reactions going on. So yes, I do think SWTOR forum does stand out. It was, btw, the same with SWG, so it seems it's the Star Wars IP which is the cause for so strong emotions.
The community i fear its going to be worse then the dreaded wow
Lurking around here, I too fear this might be the case. Much pointless arguing and anger, sadly reminding me of my WOW days, I left behind. Factions politicking about hairraising stuff. It's why most of my friends don't post in game forums at all.
Once the few butthurt ex-SWG players that can't get over something that happened to a game 5 years ago stop stomping their feet whining how this isn't SWG2 finally go away, it'll get better.
I wasn't referring to them. I am sure you get the idea.
I'm guessing this is some subtle attempt to call me a fanboi? LOL hardly. I think the space combat is a joke, think the character models look like ass, and there are a few other things that I don't like and I'm sure there will be more as more is made public. I just don't expect them to totally revamp something because *I* don't like it, nor do I think that just because *I* am not happy with something, that it means doooooooooom, nor do I think I'm owed something because another company destroyed a game I liked years ago.
There's a difference between constructive criticism and whining because something isn't exactly what we want.
The community i fear its going to be worse then the dreaded wow
Lurking around here, I too fear this might be the case. Much pointless arguing and anger, sadly reminding me of my WOW days, I left behind. Factions politicking about hairraising stuff. It's why most of my friends don't post in game forums at all.
Once the few butthurt ex-SWG players that can't get over something that happened to a game 5 years ago stop stomping their feet whining how this isn't SWG2 finally go away, it'll get better.
I wasn't referring to them. I am sure you get the idea.
You are absolutley right. the SWG vets are some of the worst and relentless people in the MMO community. Hell, they even caused some poor guy... eh nevermind. I just hope some of these whiners do not show up in chat spewing their crap. I almost like how nobody says anything in FF14 right now in chat, because that means I don't have to listen to the 25 percent of the community that just wants to complain.
One of my most disgusted times in my whole MMO history was the day they held that memorial for an ex swg dev, swg players and vets made a mockery of the whole thing and /puked on the memorial. I can't recall a time I have ever been more embarrassed or disgusted.
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Whiners can cause things to improve. Fans make them all ever stay as they are. Go figure.
Hmm strange view point as I recall lot's of folks saying the "whiners" are why SWG got NGE'd and not the fanbois.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
@Sigruna: I don't think it is as much SW:TOR forums here - although with some TOR fans and cynics here it can be heated - but more so the overall forum climate on mmorpg.com.
A good example is the FFXIV forum here, the forum atmosphere can be positively toxic from time to time with the heated debates going on, the same applies to an AoC forum here or a WoW forum or other forums. The atmosphere on those game forums here are in no way representative for the community and atmosphere ingame, nor is the heated atmosphere at this SW:TOR forum the same as you encounter on other SW:TOR forums.
In short: it's a mmorpg.com forum thing, the people that form the community here are a special subset of the MMO gamer community, with a lot of jaded gamers among them who have become cynical because of former desillusions.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Whiners can cause things to improve. Fans make them all ever stay as they are. Go figure.
This is what causes these flame wars we see all the time (at least IMO). These blanket statements lead to nothing but arguments over pointless subjects and derail threads to be about fanbois and haters rather than the substance of the thread.
You can't blame people for defending themselves when their called fanbois, just like you can't blame someone taking offense to being labeled a hater. These words are nothing but deflections from the points being made, an attack on the poster rather than the post itself. Calling any detractor of TOR a butt-hurt pre-cu vet leads to nothing but the same.
I like to know why something is being said and who's saying it. Even knowing that I'd never stick a label on someone as if they are no longer a person with an opinion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The community i fear its going to be worse then the dreaded wow
Lurking around here, I too fear this might be the case. Much pointless arguing and anger, sadly reminding me of my WOW days, I left behind. Factions politicking about hairraising stuff. It's why most of my friends don't post in game forums at all.
Once the few butthurt ex-SWG players that can't get over something that happened to a game 5 years ago stop stomping their feet whining how this isn't SWG2 finally go away, it'll get better.
I wasn't referring to them. I am sure you get the idea.
You are absolutley right. the SWG vets are some of the worst and relentless people in the MMO community. Hell, they even caused some poor guy... eh nevermind. I just hope some of these whiners do not show up in chat spewing their crap. I almost like how nobody says anything in FF14 right now in chat, because that means I don't have to listen to the 25 percent of the community that just wants to complain.
One of my most disgusted times in my whole MMO history was the day they held that memorial for an ex swg dev, swg players and vets made a mockery of the whole thing and /puked on the memorial. I can't recall a time I have ever been more embarrassed or disgusted.
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Whiners can cause things to improve. Fans make them all ever stay as they are. Go figure.
Hmm strange view point as I recall lot's of folks saying the "whiners" are why SWG got NGE'd and not the fanbois.
/shrug
I just refer from calling a person whiner or fanboi. First, I think it does not lead to anything but flamewars and second IMVHO it makes one look silly when you call someone else "whiner", "troll" or "fanboi". Looks a bit like lacking arguments. I love SWTOR, but then I say what I love about it. I don't have to brand someone with a label to make my point, and I tend not to repeat my things over and over as it were some sort of holy creed.
I find it ironic that there are people who focus on the flaming here and there going on in these forums and think it'll be representative for how debased a SW:TOR community ingame will be, while at the same the same people seem to be glossing over and ignoring all the interesting threads and constructive debates that are also happening, as if those don't matter.
Or neglecting the fact that the flamewars and negative discussions aren't just happening on the SW:TOR section, but far more in the majority of the game forums here on mmorpg.com.
Well, truth be told, I was a passive lurker here for some two years, and every time I preferred to stay in the background because of many flame posts here. Now that I started to play FFXIV I wanted to share some insights. (That, and the fact my boys just started school gave me some more time.)
I can't say if forum talks are representative, but I can definitely say that forum conversations have a huge impact on what I play. It just makes me feel unwell when I see people engulfed in turf wars. At some point I just don't care who is right and who is wrong, but it creates an atmosphere, where I just don't want to be, and so far Star Was TOR looks like the most flaming subforum. Maybe it's to be expected with Star Wars, but it makes me feel uncomfortable. It just went that way in WOW. First forums started to become turf wars and then ingame it went downhill, so it was a bad lesson I learned to avoid games with too aggressive fans, who yell down everyone who doesn't praise everything a game company does.
I can garuntee you if you go bashing any game on this forum you will always have somebody there trying to defend the game like they made it themselves. Go to ff14, gw2, rift, wow, aion, ANY forum and post something negative and you will see these kind of responses. Let's not pretend like this is just TOR.
True, everywhere critizsing is called bashing or whining by the fans, and to like something is called fanboism by the others. You get that in every conflict. See Northern Ireland, see Israel VS Palestine. Every side claims to be right and calls the other side the culprit. Form the outside you don't care, you just decide to stay away.
I just find it of note that the FFXIV forum seems to overall agree in the critique. We who play FFXIV know the flaws and I haven't seen a big issue about the flaws of the game. We know them, most agree and that's it. Rift and GW2 are yet mostly positively welcome. Wow and Aion usually also have the agreement in what isn't working well. But Wow, Aion and FFXIV are released. SWTOR is still half a year or more away, and already all is bursting with flames everywhere, so I sometimes wonder if a game can even succeed now with such reactions going on. So yes, I do think SWTOR forum does stand out. It was, btw, the same with SWG, so it seems it's the Star Wars IP which is the cause for so strong emotions.
It's what boys do: my toy is shinier that yours.
The star wars Ip does have alot to do with it.
I have been playing ff14 and I have had some complaints with it, but I didn't have those complaints until I actually got into the game to see what it was about. Before that I heard alot of negativity , but nothing to really keep me from playing.
I also have noticed some people come out and defend the game tooth and nail. I seen a negative post on here about rift and it winds in flame wars. Wow, SWG, ... if you made a post about gw2 you will be labeled a troll if it is not positive.
It is like this on all forums no matter where you go. Just accept it , it is how it is.
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Calling other forumvisitors 'fanbois' isn't exactly helping better a forum community, it's contributing to the problem and angry debating that you stated to dislike.
In fact, it only helps to derail another thread by the choice of words.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Calling other forumvisitors 'fanbois' isn't exactly helping better a forum community, it's contributing to the problem and angry debating that you stated to dislike.
In fact, it only helps to derail another thread by the choice of words.
Exactly..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Whiners can cause things to improve. Fans make them all ever stay as they are. Go figure.
This is what causes these flame wars we see all the time (at least IMO). These blanket statements lead to nothing but arguments over pointless subjects and derail threads to be about fanbois and haters rather than the substance of the thread.
You can't blame people for defending themselves when their called fanbois, just like you can't blame someone taking offense to being labeled a hater. These words are nothing but deflections from the points being made, an attack on the poster rather than the post itself. Calling any detractor of TOR a butt-hurt pre-cu vet leads to nothing but the same.
While I like to know why something is being said and who's saying it. Even knowing that I'd never stick a label on someone as if they are no longer a person with an opinion.
Well made point I think I'd do well to try to listen to myself (even thoug I try not to be like that) I still know I do it too. But what I can say is lot's of posters can probably say they've seem me say something similar along the lines of liking or defending something shouldn't automatically bring out the "well your just a fanboi" repsonse any more than not liking something should have someone say "you are just a troll".
I don't even like the fact that we make these distinctions like sandbox,themepark, oh this is not an mmorpg but a orpg and the like. We are all playing with little pixelated sprites it's simply not that serious.
I think console gamers are much a happier bunch because they don't do these things, they don't try to seperate themselves from other gamers like them much like mmorpg players seem to do we have people who have to hate themepark, folks who have to hate sandbox, folks who have to hate fanbois, folks who have to hate trolls.
Everything with us more often than not has to be a fight, if a game with an ip we like is being made but we don't like it's direction instead of just not buying and saying "I won't be trying it" we have to put on the boxing gloves and bash the thing and everything about it until it launches.
I think the question then becomes is our passion helpful or a hinderance? I think a hiderance until we learn to think outside of our own personal little boxes.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Calling other forumvisitors 'fanbois' isn't exactly helping better a forum community, it's contributing to the problem and angry debating that you stated to dislike.
In fact, it only helps to derail another thread by the choice of words.
My bad. ^^ I take it back. Just was kidding anway.
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Whiners can cause things to improve. Fans make them all ever stay as they are. Go figure.
This is what causes these flame wars we see all the time (at least IMO). These blanket statements lead to nothing but arguments over pointless subjects and derail threads to be about fanbois and haters rather than the substance of the thread.
You can't blame people for defending themselves when their called fanbois, just like you can't blame someone taking offense to being labeled a hater. These words are nothing but deflections from the points being made, an attack on the poster rather than the post itself. Calling any detractor of TOR a butt-hurt pre-cu vet leads to nothing but the same.
While I like to know why something is being said and who's saying it. Even knowing that I'd never stick a label on someone as if they are no longer a person with an opinion.
Well made point I think I'd do well to try to listen to myself (even thoug I try not to be like that) I still know I do it too. But what I can say is lot's of posters can probably say they've seem me say something similar along the lines of liking or defending something shouldn't automatically bring out the "well your just a fanboi" repsonse any more than not liking something should have someone say "you are just a troll".
I don't even like the fact that we make these distinctions like sandbox,themepark, oh this is not an mmorpg but a orpg and the like. We are all playing with little pixelated sprites it's simply not that serious.
I think console gamers are much a happier bunch because they don't do these things, they don't try to seperate themselves from other gamers like them much like mmorpg players seem to do we have people who have to hate themepark, folks who have to hate sandbox, folks who have to hate fanbois, folks who have to hate trolls.
Everything with us more often than not has to be a fight, if a game with an ip we like is being made but we don't like it's direction instead of just not buying and saying "I won't be trying it" we have to put on the boxing gloves and bash the thing and everything about it until it launches.
I think the question then becomes is our passion helpful or a hinderance? I think a hiderance until we learn to think outside of our own personal little boxes.
In my Opinion Haters and Fanbois are just two sides of the same coin and both endemic of the extremist social/cultural disease that plagues discussion in any forum about anything where there are only polarized points of view screaming at each other and no true discussion or debate present at all.
As to these forums in particular I am here to discuss games not improve them,when I want to make a contribution to the betterment of a particular game I will post int he official forums in the appropriate section where there is a much better chance of a dev actually seeing it.I think it shows great hubris on this community's behalf that it is believed that devs are watching and evaluating every word we say.
Comments
I have no concerns.
I wasn't referring to them. I am sure you get the idea.
I've had that same fear myself, DE kind of alleviated that fear in a way with his statements about Space travel, as it said to me they were sticking to their own vision regardless of the complaints they've received over it. Which IMO is the best couse of action.
While it's good to listen and get a sense of what people who aren't already hooked, want in their games, it's a horrible decision to attempt to cater to complaints that go against your foundation. IMO if they start doing that the game is most certainly doomed, as they will fall victim to the scope plague that has eaten up many a good game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have no negativity towards a star wars sandbox game, i would likely play it, heck im playing minecraft right now and thats more of a sandbox than any mmo out there, its the fact that people cant accept that this isnt a sandbox, this isnt SWG2, never was meant to be never will be, and people cant accept that.
I dont expect much from the extremely immature SWG vets though, theve proved time and time again how how immature and childish they behave.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
You are absolutley right. the SWG vets are some of the worst and relentless people in the MMO community. Hell, they even caused some poor guy... eh nevermind. I just hope some of these whiners do not show up in chat spewing their crap. I almost like how nobody says anything in FF14 right now in chat, because that means I don't have to listen to the 25 percent of the community that just wants to complain.
One of my most disgusted times in my whole MMO history was the day they held that memorial for an ex swg dev, swg players and vets made a mockery of the whole thing and /puked on the memorial. I can't recall a time I have ever been more embarrassed or disgusted.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
My major concern about ToR is that so many people have so many high expectations, some of which conflict with others, that I believe that about 50% of the people who try it will be unhappy and will flood these forums with why they hate the game. That is not saying that it will be a bad game, but that no Developer would be able to satisfy all the expectations I have read about. My opinion.
Currently bored with MMO's.
Can we just leave it at this, you're concerned about what you've seen happening on this particular forum.
Which is fair enough, I just don't want this turning into yet another flame war.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Running into invisible walls everywhere. I hope they leave it open.
Well, truth be told, I was a passive lurker here for some two years, and every time I preferred to stay in the background because of many flame posts here. Now that I started to play FFXIV I wanted to share some insights. (That, and the fact my boys just started school gave me some more time.)
I can't say if forum talks are representative, but I can definitely say that forum conversations have a huge impact on what I play. It just makes me feel unwell when I see people engulfed in turf wars. At some point I just don't care who is right and who is wrong, but it creates an atmosphere, where I just don't want to be, and so far Star Was TOR looks like the most flaming subforum. Maybe it's to be expected with Star Wars, but it makes me feel uncomfortable. It just went that way in WOW. First forums started to become turf wars and then ingame it went downhill, so it was a bad lesson I learned to avoid games with too aggressive fans, who yell down everyone who doesn't praise everything a game company does.
I can garuntee you if you go bashing any game on this forum you will always have somebody there trying to defend the game like they made it themselves. Go to ff14, gw2, rift, wow, aion, ANY forum and post something negative and you will see these kind of responses. Let's not pretend like this is just TOR.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Ehurm... acutally I meant the fanbois who I feel do the biggest damage, preventing the progress by praising the status quo.
Whiners can cause things to improve. Fans make them all ever stay as they are. Go figure.
I agree with you. There are a list of things I do not like about this game myself, but posting it on this forum would be a waste of my time. I will say how feel about it though. Just like when they had the space crap going on. I wasn't very happy with it and I stated it in my post.
Some things you may not like, are things that I do like, though. I will not change my point of view about it because you think it makes me a fanboy.
Themepark? It is fine with me.
VO? I like it.
Species? Perfectly acceptable with me, I just want to play the damn game, they have enough choices in my opinion. I also understand why they don't want certain species.
Trinity? I have no problem with it, if that is the case. They have this in almost every game anyhow.
Graphics? I don't see a problem with them.
Animations? I thought they were pretty good. Nothing too over the top like you see in some games, and Imp agent looks beast. Makes it look more realistic and tactical in my opinion.
Of course there are some things I do not like, but most of the things people complain about do not bother me one bit. To each their own.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
mostly this!
Im also concerned about how the endgame content will look like and how the pvp works out, i cant stand a game with miserable pvp content. But -> Im not going to buy the game because of pvp, im going to buy it because of the epic bioware story, im not a great star wars fan, im more a fan of bioware and their games. This gets me to another point im concerned about -> time. Will i have enough time to play all the characters? im pretty much near the last 3 semester and cant afford to screw it up...
Playing: Global Agenda / Vindictus
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Excited for: Guild Wars 2 / TERA / SWTOR
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Have Played: Ultima Online, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, CoH/CoV, EverQuest 1+2, Tabula Rasa, DDO, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Champions Online, Aion, FLYFF, ArchLord, Metin 2, DAoC, APB, CC, Darkfall and many many more
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Favorite MMO: Ultima Online
True, everywhere critizsing is called bashing or whining by the fans, and to like something is called fanboism by the others. You get that in every conflict. See Northern Ireland, see Israel VS Palestine. Every side claims to be right and calls the other side the culprit. Form the outside you don't care, you just decide to stay away.
I just find it of note that the FFXIV forum seems to overall agree in the critique. We who play FFXIV know the flaws and I haven't seen a big issue about the flaws of the game. We know them, most agree and that's it. Rift and GW2 are yet mostly positively welcome. Wow and Aion usually also have the agreement in what isn't working well. But Wow, Aion and FFXIV are released. SWTOR is still half a year or more away, and already all is bursting with flames everywhere, so I sometimes wonder if a game can even succeed now with such reactions going on. So yes, I do think SWTOR forum does stand out. It was, btw, the same with SWG, so it seems it's the Star Wars IP which is the cause for so strong emotions.
It's what boys do: my toy is shinier that yours.
I'm guessing this is some subtle attempt to call me a fanboi? LOL hardly. I think the space combat is a joke, think the character models look like ass, and there are a few other things that I don't like and I'm sure there will be more as more is made public. I just don't expect them to totally revamp something because *I* don't like it, nor do I think that just because *I* am not happy with something, that it means doooooooooom, nor do I think I'm owed something because another company destroyed a game I liked years ago.
There's a difference between constructive criticism and whining because something isn't exactly what we want.
Hmm strange view point as I recall lot's of folks saying the "whiners" are why SWG got NGE'd and not the fanbois.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
@Sigruna: I don't think it is as much SW:TOR forums here - although with some TOR fans and cynics here it can be heated - but more so the overall forum climate on mmorpg.com.
A good example is the FFXIV forum here, the forum atmosphere can be positively toxic from time to time with the heated debates going on, the same applies to an AoC forum here or a WoW forum or other forums. The atmosphere on those game forums here are in no way representative for the community and atmosphere ingame, nor is the heated atmosphere at this SW:TOR forum the same as you encounter on other SW:TOR forums.
In short: it's a mmorpg.com forum thing, the people that form the community here are a special subset of the MMO gamer community, with a lot of jaded gamers among them who have become cynical because of former desillusions.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This is what causes these flame wars we see all the time (at least IMO). These blanket statements lead to nothing but arguments over pointless subjects and derail threads to be about fanbois and haters rather than the substance of the thread.
You can't blame people for defending themselves when their called fanbois, just like you can't blame someone taking offense to being labeled a hater. These words are nothing but deflections from the points being made, an attack on the poster rather than the post itself. Calling any detractor of TOR a butt-hurt pre-cu vet leads to nothing but the same.
I like to know why something is being said and who's saying it. Even knowing that I'd never stick a label on someone as if they are no longer a person with an opinion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
/shrug
I just refer from calling a person whiner or fanboi. First, I think it does not lead to anything but flamewars and second IMVHO it makes one look silly when you call someone else "whiner", "troll" or "fanboi". Looks a bit like lacking arguments. I love SWTOR, but then I say what I love about it. I don't have to brand someone with a label to make my point, and I tend not to repeat my things over and over as it were some sort of holy creed.
The star wars Ip does have alot to do with it.
I have been playing ff14 and I have had some complaints with it, but I didn't have those complaints until I actually got into the game to see what it was about. Before that I heard alot of negativity , but nothing to really keep me from playing.
I also have noticed some people come out and defend the game tooth and nail. I seen a negative post on here about rift and it winds in flame wars. Wow, SWG, ... if you made a post about gw2 you will be labeled a troll if it is not positive.
It is like this on all forums no matter where you go. Just accept it , it is how it is.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Calling other forumvisitors 'fanbois' isn't exactly helping better a forum community, it's contributing to the problem and angry debating that you stated to dislike.
In fact, it only helps to derail another thread by the choice of words.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Exactly..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well made point I think I'd do well to try to listen to myself (even thoug I try not to be like that) I still know I do it too. But what I can say is lot's of posters can probably say they've seem me say something similar along the lines of liking or defending something shouldn't automatically bring out the "well your just a fanboi" repsonse any more than not liking something should have someone say "you are just a troll".
I don't even like the fact that we make these distinctions like sandbox,themepark, oh this is not an mmorpg but a orpg and the like. We are all playing with little pixelated sprites it's simply not that serious.
I think console gamers are much a happier bunch because they don't do these things, they don't try to seperate themselves from other gamers like them much like mmorpg players seem to do we have people who have to hate themepark, folks who have to hate sandbox, folks who have to hate fanbois, folks who have to hate trolls.
Everything with us more often than not has to be a fight, if a game with an ip we like is being made but we don't like it's direction instead of just not buying and saying "I won't be trying it" we have to put on the boxing gloves and bash the thing and everything about it until it launches.
I think the question then becomes is our passion helpful or a hinderance? I think a hiderance until we learn to think outside of our own personal little boxes.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
My bad. ^^ I take it back. Just was kidding anway.
It seems too serious though to make fun. ^^
In my Opinion Haters and Fanbois are just two sides of the same coin and both endemic of the extremist social/cultural disease that plagues discussion in any forum about anything where there are only polarized points of view screaming at each other and no true discussion or debate present at all.
As to these forums in particular I am here to discuss games not improve them,when I want to make a contribution to the betterment of a particular game I will post int he official forums in the appropriate section where there is a much better chance of a dev actually seeing it.I think it shows great hubris on this community's behalf that it is believed that devs are watching and evaluating every word we say.
edited for typos