Kind of harsh. I guess those players deserve what they get in your view.
That's true, 4 years ago, I would have been more lenient, but after launches as AoC, WAR, Aion, CO etc MMO gamers should know better and do more reading up and research before diving into something. Or don't do it and accept the consequences.
It almost feels like a number of MMO gamers the last 5 years have become whinier and whinier and less capable to manage their own expectations, even after enough examples that they should do that better.
But hey, that's just my subjective viewpoint, it's certainly no ultimate truth.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Why should you? Because if you're the person with only gladiator leveled, you're not going to be as good as the guy who has skills from marauder and pugilist with armor he made himself.
You can look at it and sit there pouting with crossed arms because you don't want to do what you want to do for as long as you want to, but neither can anyone else, and most of those other people are smart enough to go do something else instead of just sitting there like a spoiled kid. Like a WoW player.
Too many people are looking at this game like f'ing WoW. You aren't restricted to one class, why would you limit yourself like that? You need to look at your character as an adventurer able to do anything. By leveling up multiple disciplines, you better your character as a whole. (The faster you get Physi. level up, the better leves you get)
Looks like I misspoke about never hitting the fatigue limit. Turns out how you can tell if you hit it or not (other than actually noticing that you've stopped making xp) is to look at the color of the bars. Starts out blue, turns yellow (probably), ends up red in the final stages. It's also green when you've a Guardian boost representing bonus xp.
Can't say it bugs me that much, really. My physical level is way ahead of my ranks, my rank xp I can continue to gain by simpy switching my tool/weapon. Vertical gain is somwhat EverQuestish, Horizontal gain is somewhat Ultima Online, but ther'es always gain I can be doing.
Here's where you're mixing things up: you present it as if the Fatigue System is the result of some massive complaints from all kinds of casual gamers and FFXIV fans. It is not.
Fair enough. SE had their own reasons. However, the anti-hardcore attitude I mistakenly assumed was behind this is reflected in responses the OP got. One poster said (maybe he was being sarcastic but I didn't think so at the time I read it) that he'd prefer a game that only let players play a few hours per week, since that's all he can play.
Edit: For clarity. I'm assuming you are not contending that the attitude I'm referring to doesn't exist in numbers large enough to afffect the design of games in the modern MMO world. Maybe you would disagree with my characterization of it (making sure no one can have more fun than you do). Since my last post, someone's even compared the OP to people who are "smart enough" to level other classes. So the OP doesn't want to level other classes, that makes him dumb?
Or to mirror your question, why should a casual gamer care if a hardcore gamer hits the ceiling of the Fatigue System? It's not as if it's something that he himself is hindered by.
That's not a very apt parallel, but no matter -- it makes my point. Why should player X care what why or how player Y plays the game? Why should player X approve of or praise a system that forces other players to alter their playstyle? Why should player X respond to a player complaint about the system by blaming the player?
Sure, enough MMO's around for people to have fun with.
Regarding the OP, I don't know about other posters' stance, but my stance is, I can understand if it's something that a number of FFXIV mechanics aren't up his alley, as I said, enough MMO's around to cater a wide variety of MMO tastes.
However, someone who had no idea how FFXIV's gameplay was set up and went into it with his eyes closed and then is suddenly surprised that some aspects in FFXIV are new to him and not to his liking, and this after the years of bad MMO launches there have been... sorry, but I myself find people who don't do the slightest bit of research before diving into a new MMO and then fail to manage their expectations laughable.
Well, laughter is healthy, so take it any way you can get it. But as far as I can see, the guy did what people do -- he ran into something he (for whatever reason) didn't expect, which compromised his enjoyment of the game, then went on a public forum to do what people do.
And the "whiny bitches" I referred to did what whiny bitches do... blamed him for not already being the kind of person they think should play this game. All I'm trying to do is figure out why, in a game that is not competitive in any particular way, poeple want developers to implement mechanisms to stop power levelers. It has no effect on the quality of others' game play (or does it? Is there something I'm missing? I mean besides sour grapes, spite or envy...)
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Here's where you're mixing things up: you present it as if the Fatigue System is the result of some massive complaints from all kinds of casual gamers and FFXIV fans. It is not.
Fair enough. SE had their own reasons. However, the anti-hardcore attitude I mistakenly assumed was behind this is reflected in responses the OP got. One poster said (maybe he was being sarcastic but I didn't think so at the time I read it) that he'd prefer a game that only let players play a few hours per week, since that's all he can play.
Edit: For clarity. I'm assuming you are not contending that the attitude I'm referring to doesn't exist in numbers large enough to afffect the design of games in the modern MMO world. Maybe you would disagree with my characterization of it (making sure no one can have more fun than you do). Since my last post, someone's even compared the OP to people who are "smart enough" to level other classes. So the OP doesn't want to level other classes, that makes him dumb?
Or to mirror your question, why should a casual gamer care if a hardcore gamer hits the ceiling of the Fatigue System? It's not as if it's something that he himself is hindered by.
That's not a very apt parallel, but no matter -- it makes my point. Why should player X care what why or how player Y plays the game? Why should player X approve of or praise a system that forces other players to alter their playstyle? Why should player X respond to a player complaint about the system by blaming the player?
Sure, enough MMO's around for people to have fun with.
Regarding the OP, I don't know about other posters' stance, but my stance is, I can understand if it's something that a number of FFXIV mechanics aren't up his alley, as I said, enough MMO's around to cater a wide variety of MMO tastes.
However, someone who had no idea how FFXIV's gameplay was set up and went into it with his eyes closed and then is suddenly surprised that some aspects in FFXIV are new to him and not to his liking, and this after the years of bad MMO launches there have been... sorry, but I myself find people who don't do the slightest bit of research before diving into a new MMO and then fail to manage their expectations laughable.
Well, laughter is healthy, so take it any way you can get it. But as far as I can see, the guy did what people do -- he ran into something he (for whatever reason) didn't expect, which compromised his enjoyment of the game, then went on a public forum to do what people do.
And the "whiny bitches" I referred to did what whiny bitches do... blamed him for not already being the kind of person they think should play this game. All I'm trying to do is figure out why, in a game that is not competitive in any particular way, poeple want developers to implement mechanisms to stop power levelers. It has no effect on the quality of others' game play (or does it? Is there something I'm missing? I mean besides sour grapes, spite or envy...)
It does have an effect on other player's game play quality. Since you level up crafting jobs just like war/magic, people would blast to obscene ranks and monopolize on armor that not everyone can get yet by selling it at disgustingly high prices. In fact someone I knew had planned on doing that for getting crystals (eventually you get more crystals by killing monsters) and he'd just monopolize on them because he would be the only person able to easily farm the monsters that drop those crystals.
Edit: For clarity. I'm assuming you are not contending that the attitude I'm referring to doesn't exist in numbers large enough to afffect the design of games in the modern MMO world. Maybe you would disagree with my characterization of it (making sure no one can have more fun than you do). Since my last post, someone's even compared the OP to people who are "smart enough" to level other classes. So the OP doesn't want to level other classes, that makes him dumb?
No idea what exactly you're referring to, nor do I think that the point you're trying to make is within the context of the discussion. You're ascribing all kinds of personality traits to a perceived model 'casual FFXIV gamer' that simply doesn't exist like that. It'd be like saying 'all FFXIV cynics and trolls think like that' or 'this is the attitude of (all) WoW gamers'. That's prejudice and bias.
Well, laughter is healthy, so take it any way you can get it. But as far as I can see, the guy did what people do -- he ran into something he (for whatever reason) didn't expect, which compromised his enjoyment of the game, then went on a public forum to do what people do.
And the "whiny bitches" I referred to did what whiny bitches do... blamed him for not already being the kind of person they think should play this game.
Reading the OP's rants I encountered in this and other threads, I'd say that the whining part is more coming from him, but maybe that's a matter of perspective. There's no doubt though, that when you post your rants on forums, that you should expect positive and negative reactions.
All I'm trying to do is figure out why, in a game that is not competitive in any particular way, poeple want developers to implement mechanisms to stop power levelers. It has no effect on the quality of others' game play (or does it? Is there something I'm missing?
You are missing the fact that people can be able to accept a game's features without wanting it to be the same as in all the other MMO's they played.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You are paying for a service, what you wish to do with that service is up to you. If you joined a Gym and paid them a monthly fee, but decided to only use the treadmill, you wouldn't demand less. It is you, not the company.
(Edit): Also if $12 - $15 is too much to pay a month, then that is quite worrying.
And the "whiny bitches" I referred to did what whiny bitches do... blamed him for not already being the kind of person they think should play this game. All I'm trying to do is figure out why, in a game that is not competitive in any particular way, poeple want developers to implement mechanisms to stop power levelers. It has no effect on the quality of others' game play (or does it? Is there something I'm missing? I mean besides sour grapes, spite or envy...)
It does have an effect on other player's game play quality. Since you level up crafting jobs just like war/magic, people would blast to obscene ranks and monopolize on armor that not everyone can get yet by selling it at disgustingly high prices. In fact someone I knew had planned on doing that for getting crystals (eventually you get more crystals by killing monsters) and he'd just monopolize on them because he would be the only person able to easily farm the monsters that drop those crystals.
Putting aside the fact that the OP doesn't want to craft, I still don't see it. I have to be level X to farm the mob that drops the item I need to make the armor. The game mechanic prevents me (or anyone else) from getting to level X. How much does the armor cost now? When something is rare, the high price reflects the fact that the item is available to purchase at all.
Eventually, othere people will achieve the level needed to make the item. meanwhile no one had a gun to their head forcing them to pay the "obscene" price. You don't like the fact that someone made something and sold it for a price you can't afford or won't pay because it's too high. I'm still not seeing a problem though.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Edit: For clarity. I'm assuming you are not contending that the attitude I'm referring to doesn't exist in numbers large enough to afffect the design of games in the modern MMO world. Maybe you would disagree with my characterization of it (making sure no one can have more fun than you do). Since my last post, someone's even compared the OP to people who are "smart enough" to level other classes. So the OP doesn't want to level other classes, that makes him dumb?
No idea what exactly you're referring to, nor do I think that the point you're trying to make is within the context of the discussion. You're ascribing all kinds of personality traits to a perceived model 'casual FFXIV gamer' that simply doesn't exist like that. It'd be like saying 'all FFXIV cynics and trolls think like that' or 'this is the attitude of (all) WoW gamers'. That's prejudice and bias.
Well, laughter is healthy, so take it any way you can get it. But as far as I can see, the guy did what people do -- he ran into something he (for whatever reason) didn't expect, which compromised his enjoyment of the game, then went on a public forum to do what people do.
And the "whiny bitches" I referred to did what whiny bitches do... blamed him for not already being the kind of person they think should play this game.
Reading the OP's rants I encountered in this and other threads, I'd say that the whining part is more coming from him, but maybe that's a matter of perspective. There's no doubt though, that when you post your rants on forums, that you should expect positive and negative reactions.
All I'm trying to do is figure out why, in a game that is not competitive in any particular way, poeple want developers to implement mechanisms to stop power levelers. It has no effect on the quality of others' game play (or does it? Is there something I'm missing?
You are missing the fact that people can be able to accept a game's features without wanting it to be the same as in all the other MMO's they played.
Well said. You make two good points. Yes, "you lay down with dogs, you get fleas". Still, it doesn't make the dogs any less, um, dogg-y. Second, you're right that a person could just accept what the game was. But this isn't exactly an either-or situation like the "sandbox/theme" or "permadeath/no permadeath" issues. It's more of a "99% of the user base is completely unaffected by the policy. When the 1% complains, we'll just call them 'complainers' and tell them they deserve it" kind of thing. The mechanic we're tallking about is toxic to a particular type of user and indifferent to the rest. "Why am *I* being punished?" is a fair question for the 1%ers to ask.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
The game costs 15 bucks only if you have two characters. Otherwise its 12 bucks a month. And i hope you were being sarcastic with this fatigue payment system.
I wish SE was being sarcastic with the whole fatigue system
Still, it doesn't make the dogs any less, um, dogg-y. Second, you're right that a person could just accept what the game was. But this isn't exactly an either-or situation like the "sandbox/theme" or "permadeath/no permadeath" issues. It's more of a "99% of the user base is completely unaffected by the policy. When the 1% complains, we'll just call them 'complainers' and tell them they deserve it" kind of thing.
If you look at the forumdebates, it isn't exactly a 'bash the complainers' thing: you'll notice that the constructive and common sense form of debates are completely shoved under in the storms of heated debates between the advocates of the more extreme viewpoints of both sides. Of course, people who agree more with the FFXIV opponents will say it's because of the 'fanbois' and people who agree more with the FFXIV proponents will say it's because of the 'haters' and 'trolls'.
But matter of fact is that, no matter the subject, you will get positive, indifferent and negative reactions.
The mechanic we're tallking about is toxic to a particular type of user and indifferent to the rest. "Why am *I* being punished?" is a fair question for the 1%ers to ask.
It's true that the measure hits the hardcore gamers hardest. And they can certainly ask the question 'why?' SE, however, gave an explanation to why. It's up to hardcore gamers themselves to decide whether to accept that explanation, or not and move towards MMO's that won't hinder them in the way they want to play a MMORPG.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
That's true, 4 years ago, I would have been more lenient, but after launches as AoC, WAR, Aion, CO etc MMO gamers should know better and do more reading up and research before diving into something. Or don't do it and accept the consequences.
It almost feels like a number of MMO gamers the last 5 years have become whinier and whinier and less capable to manage their own expectations, even after enough examples that they should do that better.
But hey, that's just my subjective viewpoint, it's certainly no ultimate truth.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Why should you? Because if you're the person with only gladiator leveled, you're not going to be as good as the guy who has skills from marauder and pugilist with armor he made himself.
You can look at it and sit there pouting with crossed arms because you don't want to do what you want to do for as long as you want to, but neither can anyone else, and most of those other people are smart enough to go do something else instead of just sitting there like a spoiled kid. Like a WoW player.
Too many people are looking at this game like f'ing WoW. You aren't restricted to one class, why would you limit yourself like that? You need to look at your character as an adventurer able to do anything. By leveling up multiple disciplines, you better your character as a whole. (The faster you get Physi. level up, the better leves you get)
Looks like I misspoke about never hitting the fatigue limit. Turns out how you can tell if you hit it or not (other than actually noticing that you've stopped making xp) is to look at the color of the bars. Starts out blue, turns yellow (probably), ends up red in the final stages. It's also green when you've a Guardian boost representing bonus xp.
Can't say it bugs me that much, really. My physical level is way ahead of my ranks, my rank xp I can continue to gain by simpy switching my tool/weapon. Vertical gain is somwhat EverQuestish, Horizontal gain is somewhat Ultima Online, but ther'es always gain I can be doing.
FFXIV Tactics: Understanding the Fatigue System
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abE09-tqhoM
Well, laughter is healthy, so take it any way you can get it. But as far as I can see, the guy did what people do -- he ran into something he (for whatever reason) didn't expect, which compromised his enjoyment of the game, then went on a public forum to do what people do.
And the "whiny bitches" I referred to did what whiny bitches do... blamed him for not already being the kind of person they think should play this game. All I'm trying to do is figure out why, in a game that is not competitive in any particular way, poeple want developers to implement mechanisms to stop power levelers. It has no effect on the quality of others' game play (or does it? Is there something I'm missing? I mean besides sour grapes, spite or envy...)
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
It does have an effect on other player's game play quality. Since you level up crafting jobs just like war/magic, people would blast to obscene ranks and monopolize on armor that not everyone can get yet by selling it at disgustingly high prices. In fact someone I knew had planned on doing that for getting crystals (eventually you get more crystals by killing monsters) and he'd just monopolize on them because he would be the only person able to easily farm the monsters that drop those crystals.
You are missing the fact that people can be able to accept a game's features without wanting it to be the same as in all the other MMO's they played.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You are paying for a service, what you wish to do with that service is up to you. If you joined a Gym and paid them a monthly fee, but decided to only use the treadmill, you wouldn't demand less. It is you, not the company.
(Edit): Also if $12 - $15 is too much to pay a month, then that is quite worrying.
Putting aside the fact that the OP doesn't want to craft, I still don't see it. I have to be level X to farm the mob that drops the item I need to make the armor. The game mechanic prevents me (or anyone else) from getting to level X. How much does the armor cost now? When something is rare, the high price reflects the fact that the item is available to purchase at all.
Eventually, othere people will achieve the level needed to make the item. meanwhile no one had a gun to their head forcing them to pay the "obscene" price. You don't like the fact that someone made something and sold it for a price you can't afford or won't pay because it's too high. I'm still not seeing a problem though.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Well said. You make two good points. Yes, "you lay down with dogs, you get fleas". Still, it doesn't make the dogs any less, um, dogg-y. Second, you're right that a person could just accept what the game was. But this isn't exactly an either-or situation like the "sandbox/theme" or "permadeath/no permadeath" issues. It's more of a "99% of the user base is completely unaffected by the policy. When the 1% complains, we'll just call them 'complainers' and tell them they deserve it" kind of thing. The mechanic we're tallking about is toxic to a particular type of user and indifferent to the rest. "Why am *I* being punished?" is a fair question for the 1%ers to ask.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
I wish SE was being sarcastic with the whole fatigue system
It's true that the measure hits the hardcore gamers hardest. And they can certainly ask the question 'why?' SE, however, gave an explanation to why. It's up to hardcore gamers themselves to decide whether to accept that explanation, or not and move towards MMO's that won't hinder them in the way they want to play a MMORPG.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."