Shadow Warrior (WAR) is definitely up there, with Marauders (WAR) cementing my opinion that WAR had terrible class/combat/CC design and balancing.
Rangers (EQ2) I was real apprehensive about, due to splitting ranged/melee abilities early on (and having ranged combat being like 1 arrow shot per combat while soloing.) This made it feel like the class would have a watered down mishmash of ranged and melee skills and never excel at anything, but I'm honestly a bit curious how the class pans out at later levels (because I could be entirely wrong in my assumption.) (but clearly not curious enough to spend 15 mins searching through the class forums for rangers :P )
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Axehilt Shadow Warrior (WAR) is definitely up there, with Marauders (WAR) cementing my opinion that WAR had terrible class/combat/CC design and balancing.
With so many people commenting on these two classes, I'm going to go make one of each to see personally since I never tried them yet.
Are they bad from the get go? Or does it take 20 or so levels to see the terribleness?
Highest cool factor - lowest playability: WAR Magus Loved the look and idea of causing chaos but in reality, group heal negates Magus. Sad sad
High expectations - low fun or effectiveness: DAOC Runemaster/Eldritch Stealthies always made me toss my cookies. lol DAoC Paladin What am I supposed to do with those chants? That's it? Ok, next. lol
BTW my favorite class was Shadowbane Templar and Vampire Scout and then AO Metaphysicist
Highest cool factor - lowest playability: WAR Magus Loved the look and idea of causing chaos but in reality, group heal negates Magus. Sad sad
High expectations - low fun or effectiveness: DAOC Runemaster/Eldritch Stealthies always made me toss my cookies. lol DAoC Paladin What am I supposed to do with those chants? That's it? Ok, next. lol
BTW my favorite class was Shadowbane Templar and Vampire Scout and then AO Metaphysicist
Regarding the Magus, I agree completely - group heals more than eliminated the threat of the Magus.
For an AOE and DOT based class, the Magus had some of the weakest AOEs and DOTs in the game. The "direct damage" classes had better AOEs and DOTs, in addition to having real direct damage nukes as well (something the Magus lacked completely).
Again, the Magus was just the worst designed class I've ever seen. Mythic had no clue with this class.
Shadow Warrior (WAR) is definitely up there, with Marauders (WAR) cementing my opinion that WAR had terrible class/combat/CC design and balancing.
With so many people commenting on these two classes, I'm going to go make one of each to see personally since I never tried them yet.
Are they bad from the get go? Or does it take 20 or so levels to see the terribleness?
When I played SWs were kinda useless early on in leveling, then got their AOE tactic and were 80% as cool as BWs (which is a terrible inefficiency; as a same-skill BW I'd do 25% more damage!) then they slowly shifted towards uselessness again as levels dragged on.
Marauders really didn't have much going for them, and didn't get a critical utility spell til max level. Which sucks since I liked the lore/look of em.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
While eve technically doesn't have classes the ships fill roles sort of like classes so
Bellicose - This ships role is e-war which for every other race is CC but this race gets a special one that helps improve damage!!! Unfortunately it only improves it by reducing one type of resistance (specifically how hard it is to hit small things) therefore it can't improve it beyond a certain point. Also the ships it helps against are the smallest and easiest to kill, which there are already classes designed to kill and is rather effective.
Trying to explain that in terms of a game like wow it would be like a class designed to help reduce resistance of summoned creatures only 1 at a time and while there is already another class which is just straight out good at killing these.
But that's not all not only does it have an incredibly stupid role it also sucks at it's role. You see any ship can fit these specialized e-war (some other races ships even have bonuses to this supposedly racial e-war) and the bonus this ship recieves isn't all that large, so you'll find these fit on regular ships far more often than you'll actually see the ship specialized in it. Lastly with stacking penalty after 2-3 on 1 target they get nerfed so hard they are pretty useless (which is good since this ship is low on slots to actually fit these) and with everyone focus firing in eve 2 or 3 people flying regular ships with 1 of these mods pretty much removes any need for an actual specialized ship.
It's saving grace is that in eve you can use any ship for anything so this e-war ship can ignore it's role and go combat..... But it also got hit with the split weapon system stick. Again the equivelant in a fantasy game would be like having a gun in one hand and a sword in another while everyone else has either 2 swords or 2 guns.
It's funny seeing the posts about the mage class in WoW being their worst because of the downtime you used to have. Because when that game launched I was in heaven with playing the mage class because the downtime was so minimal compared to how it was on my wizard in EQ...even at end game.
Its interesting how pending on what games you played your opinions on matters may differ.
Anyways, I think for me I'm going to have to agree with those that said magus. They were just incredibly weak and really only good if you specced them to be a one trick poney with their one aoe pull plus stun ability. Granted if you did spec for that one ability you gimped yourself even further in every other way. The odd thing was that their counterpart, the engineer, didn't seem near as bad as the magus. Although from what I remember they got their abilities tweaked for the better eventually as well.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
WoW Warrior, when they were abused, overlooked/underpowered, etc. by Blizz devs (probably still are, but haven't checked the game in months). When being a "good" Warrior was a great feat worthy of YouTube, and when gear determined how good/bad you were more so than any other class (without a good weapon particularly, you were as useful as steamed vegetables).
Maybe my memory is tainted with bias, because I loved the Warrior and was mad that it was always gimped.
WoW Warrior, when they were abused, overlooked/underpowered, etc. by Blizz devs (probably still are, but haven't checked the game in months). When being a "good" Warrior was a great feat worthy of YouTube, and when gear determined how good/bad you were more so than any other class (without a good weapon particularly, you were as useful as steamed vegetables).
Maybe my memory is tainted with bias, because I loved the Warrior and was mad that it was always gimped.
They were definitely gimped back in the day if you specced to tank. I remember on more than a few occasions you would see them asking for parties to help with solo content because unlike most other classes they couldn't complete it on their own.
Or at least many couldn't. That's my obligatory statement to cover the poster that will now come in and say they soloed everything in the game including raid content on their warrior.
Priests used to be rather rough back in those days as well to level.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
The EQ warrior. People liked to say that warriors were dumb when actually the problem was they were the most helpless class in the game. They had three abilities: autoattack, taunt and kick. They were the toughest tank class in the game and the whole group always had to babysit them. Next time you hear someone waxing about EQ's greatness, remember the warrior class.
That would have been my answer, but since it was said, I will quote it.
EQ1 warriors... They've been given some combat abilities now (aside from AA abiliities), but still, IMO, the worst class for me to play. SO boring!
Actually, I always envied the Warriors in EQ1 (I played a Ranger), because everyone needed them in groups. The ones I played with never seemed to be bored (or not as much as the clerics were, that was a truly boring class in EQ from what I heard). I usually made the Warrior the Main assist (unless the Warrior in question was new to the dungeon, in which case we'd split that duty), so they were usually busy trying to make sure there weren't any mages or clerics in amongst the mobs we were fighting. That let me play "goalie" for the squishies.
DAoC - Armsman - started out with 2-handed, since the wife plays a cleric, so I could do more DPS (which is laughable imo), and switched to sword/shield, he was horrible, I was in the most advanced/ranking guild on the server so it wasn't gear, and I had hybrid type classes even out dpsing me in hand to hand, hated that guy in PvP/RvR, was a good PvE class (sword/shield).
Exactly what I was going to say, but I would extend it to all warrior classes in DAoC, basically became siege specialists, pretty much useless in open field rvr especially because of all the overpowered crowd control spells.
Worst class: Anything that requires "twisting" spells/abilities. I'm looking at you Mythic. Anyone with ADHD has a hard time finding this stuff fun.
WAR: I concur with shadow warrior. I think Mythic was trying to break the mold of "archer" class and instead went full utility/kiting. This led to an entire generation of Legolas inspired gamers expecting to play Legolas but instead found his inbred half brother Billy who really couldn't shoot a bow that well but could shoot faster if he toggled an ability.
DAOC: Nature druids and Smite Clerics- these guys were just different. By going against the grain (in a grouping heavy MMO) they were hated by all....and the people playing them turned out to be masochists who couldn't buff or heal nearly as well as their cookie cutter alternatives. Never before had I heard this conversation. ME: Healer lfg Them- What spec? ME: Nature Them-really, what is the point of playing a healer if you can't heal. ME: I have a cute dog THEM: Does HE heal?
Warrior/Tank classes- These classes are truly sad. They are a base class and are in every game. This makes them full of unoriginal thoughts. Who says: Oh I want to play a great class with different styles, strategies, skills with some great special moves- and thinks of warriors? They are traditional which means companies play it safe with these guys.
WoW Warrior, when they were abused, overlooked/underpowered, etc. by Blizz devs (probably still are, but haven't checked the game in months). When being a "good" Warrior was a great feat worthy of YouTube, and when gear determined how good/bad you were more so than any other class (without a good weapon particularly, you were as useful as steamed vegetables).
Maybe my memory is tainted with bias, because I loved the Warrior and was mad that it was always gimped.
A lot of it boiled down to gear. They were actually fairly overpowered once they got geared, but yeah they probably were a bit shaky prior to getting the endgame gear needed to make them overpowered.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
My worst was the martial arts scrapper when CoH 1st came out..
the skills that class had were just horrid,yet somehow I suffered with it for 30 lvls.While my friends were doing their awesome attacks I was doing some lame Chun Li kick,hitting the mob for 10 points each.
I then finally switched to a blaster assault rifle and never turned back.
templar from aion , its so boring and bad dps that makes me always sleeping even in groups, and yes its really bad , i got mine to level 50 (before patch2.0), and they really need uber gear to stand a chance in pve/pvp >>they suck hard
from wow its palladin > godmode play makes game boring and feeling like u are xiting all the time
Magus from war >> incredible awfull to be true
on other hand in guild wars 1 , everyclass i played , ranger, warrior, elementalist, assassin, ritualist, mesmer,dervish and necro, they was wonderfull , and i get back to the game and i can tell you : guild wars had the best classes from all mmo's i played.
The EQ warrior. People liked to say that warriors were dumb when actually the problem was they were the most helpless class in the game. They had three abilities: autoattack, taunt and kick. They were the toughest tank class in the game and the whole group always had to babysit them. Next time you hear someone waxing about EQ's greatness, remember the warrior class.
That would have been my answer, but since it was said, I will quote it.
EQ1 warriors... They've been given some combat abilities now (aside from AA abiliities), but still, IMO, the worst class for me to play. SO boring!
Actually, I always envied the Warriors in EQ1 (I played a Ranger), because everyone needed them in groups. The ones I played with never seemed to be bored (or not as much as the clerics were, that was a truly boring class in EQ from what I heard). I usually made the Warrior the Main assist (unless the Warrior in question was new to the dungeon, in which case we'd split that duty), so they were usually busy trying to make sure there weren't any mages or clerics in amongst the mobs we were fighting. That let me play "goalie" for the squishies.
Tanking, on the whole, is not a boring role. There's aggro control and mob placement and push-- all sorts of factors to think about. It was just, for me, a lot more fun to do as a shadow knight or a paladin because, while there was less to work with (in terms of hp/ac, generally), there were just so many more options for how to get it done. I did run a warrior up to fairly high level at one point because I was envious of their raid tanking and being the first to get group tanking jobs, but I couldn't stand it. It felt like playing with one hand tied behind my back.
Being a cleric in EQ has 2 extremes-- it's either very boring or very exciting/stressful, depending on the group and what you're doing. It's a bit like being an enchanter in this regard-- it's boring when things are going well, but it's either tons o' fun or horrible, depending on your personal preferences, when things go awry. And it is basically the job of the puller and the tank to keep things as boring as possible for the healers and crowd control.
Someone else on this thread mentioned the EQ2 SK-- that was also pretty awful, a true disappointment for an EQ1 SK. That would have to be pretty high on my "worst class" list.
WoW Shaman - The worst class of any MMO I have ever played and I have played a lot.
Maybe it's because I picked up the Shaman class after it had already been nerfed to hell and back (so I didn't notice how bad it may have sucked) but I really enjoyed playing mine 1-80 as enhance, raiding Naxx for a while as such, switching to elemental and going all the way through ICC with that, and then picking up unwanted Resto gear to get around the heroic queue quickly.
Maybe I'm just the purest example of ignorance being bliss, because I loved being a Shaman - having never seen how powerful it used to be.
Comments
EQ2s original rogues. My swashbuckler had more DD spells and group buffs than my warlock, and it felt so wrong.
They got on pretty early to fix that a long time ago.
Shadow Warrior (WAR) is definitely up there, with Marauders (WAR) cementing my opinion that WAR had terrible class/combat/CC design and balancing.
Rangers (EQ2) I was real apprehensive about, due to splitting ranged/melee abilities early on (and having ranged combat being like 1 arrow shot per combat while soloing.) This made it feel like the class would have a watered down mishmash of ranged and melee skills and never excel at anything, but I'm honestly a bit curious how the class pans out at later levels (because I could be entirely wrong in my assumption.) (but clearly not curious enough to spend 15 mins searching through the class forums for rangers :P )
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
With so many people commenting on these two classes, I'm going to go make one of each to see personally since I never tried them yet.
Are they bad from the get go? Or does it take 20 or so levels to see the terribleness?
Engrish is the worst class
playing eq2 and two worlds
Highest cool factor - lowest playability: WAR Magus Loved the look and idea of causing chaos but in reality, group heal negates Magus. Sad sad
High expectations - low fun or effectiveness: DAOC Runemaster/Eldritch Stealthies always made me toss my cookies. lol DAoC Paladin What am I supposed to do with those chants? That's it? Ok, next. lol
BTW my favorite class was Shadowbane Templar and Vampire Scout and then AO Metaphysicist
Regarding the Magus, I agree completely - group heals more than eliminated the threat of the Magus.
For an AOE and DOT based class, the Magus had some of the weakest AOEs and DOTs in the game. The "direct damage" classes had better AOEs and DOTs, in addition to having real direct damage nukes as well (something the Magus lacked completely).
Again, the Magus was just the worst designed class I've ever seen. Mythic had no clue with this class.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
When I played SWs were kinda useless early on in leveling, then got their AOE tactic and were 80% as cool as BWs (which is a terrible inefficiency; as a same-skill BW I'd do 25% more damage!) then they slowly shifted towards uselessness again as levels dragged on.
Marauders really didn't have much going for them, and didn't get a critical utility spell til max level. Which sucks since I liked the lore/look of em.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
While eve technically doesn't have classes the ships fill roles sort of like classes so
Bellicose - This ships role is e-war which for every other race is CC but this race gets a special one that helps improve damage!!! Unfortunately it only improves it by reducing one type of resistance (specifically how hard it is to hit small things) therefore it can't improve it beyond a certain point. Also the ships it helps against are the smallest and easiest to kill, which there are already classes designed to kill and is rather effective.
Trying to explain that in terms of a game like wow it would be like a class designed to help reduce resistance of summoned creatures only 1 at a time and while there is already another class which is just straight out good at killing these.
But that's not all not only does it have an incredibly stupid role it also sucks at it's role. You see any ship can fit these specialized e-war (some other races ships even have bonuses to this supposedly racial e-war) and the bonus this ship recieves isn't all that large, so you'll find these fit on regular ships far more often than you'll actually see the ship specialized in it. Lastly with stacking penalty after 2-3 on 1 target they get nerfed so hard they are pretty useless (which is good since this ship is low on slots to actually fit these) and with everyone focus firing in eve 2 or 3 people flying regular ships with 1 of these mods pretty much removes any need for an actual specialized ship.
It's saving grace is that in eve you can use any ship for anything so this e-war ship can ignore it's role and go combat..... But it also got hit with the split weapon system stick. Again the equivelant in a fantasy game would be like having a gun in one hand and a sword in another while everyone else has either 2 swords or 2 guns.
/rant off
Into the breach meatbags
It's funny seeing the posts about the mage class in WoW being their worst because of the downtime you used to have. Because when that game launched I was in heaven with playing the mage class because the downtime was so minimal compared to how it was on my wizard in EQ...even at end game.
Its interesting how pending on what games you played your opinions on matters may differ.
Anyways, I think for me I'm going to have to agree with those that said magus. They were just incredibly weak and really only good if you specced them to be a one trick poney with their one aoe pull plus stun ability. Granted if you did spec for that one ability you gimped yourself even further in every other way. The odd thing was that their counterpart, the engineer, didn't seem near as bad as the magus. Although from what I remember they got their abilities tweaked for the better eventually as well.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
WoW Warrior, when they were abused, overlooked/underpowered, etc. by Blizz devs (probably still are, but haven't checked the game in months). When being a "good" Warrior was a great feat worthy of YouTube, and when gear determined how good/bad you were more so than any other class (without a good weapon particularly, you were as useful as steamed vegetables).
Maybe my memory is tainted with bias, because I loved the Warrior and was mad that it was always gimped.
They were definitely gimped back in the day if you specced to tank. I remember on more than a few occasions you would see them asking for parties to help with solo content because unlike most other classes they couldn't complete it on their own.
Or at least many couldn't. That's my obligatory statement to cover the poster that will now come in and say they soloed everything in the game including raid content on their warrior.
Priests used to be rather rough back in those days as well to level.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
all classes in lineage 2.
Cabalist from DAoC.
Actually, I always envied the Warriors in EQ1 (I played a Ranger), because everyone needed them in groups. The ones I played with never seemed to be bored (or not as much as the clerics were, that was a truly boring class in EQ from what I heard). I usually made the Warrior the Main assist (unless the Warrior in question was new to the dungeon, in which case we'd split that duty), so they were usually busy trying to make sure there weren't any mages or clerics in amongst the mobs we were fighting. That let me play "goalie" for the squishies.
Say what? Why?
Cabalist -great pets, awesome dots.
What was so bad about them?
Exactly what I was going to say, but I would extend it to all warrior classes in DAoC, basically became siege specialists, pretty much useless in open field rvr especially because of all the overpowered crowd control spells.
Worst class: Anything that requires "twisting" spells/abilities. I'm looking at you Mythic. Anyone with ADHD has a hard time finding this stuff fun.
WAR: I concur with shadow warrior. I think Mythic was trying to break the mold of "archer" class and instead went full utility/kiting. This led to an entire generation of Legolas inspired gamers expecting to play Legolas but instead found his inbred half brother Billy who really couldn't shoot a bow that well but could shoot faster if he toggled an ability.
DAOC: Nature druids and Smite Clerics- these guys were just different. By going against the grain (in a grouping heavy MMO) they were hated by all....and the people playing them turned out to be masochists who couldn't buff or heal nearly as well as their cookie cutter alternatives. Never before had I heard this conversation. ME: Healer lfg Them- What spec? ME: Nature Them-really, what is the point of playing a healer if you can't heal. ME: I have a cute dog THEM: Does HE heal?
Warrior/Tank classes- These classes are truly sad. They are a base class and are in every game. This makes them full of unoriginal thoughts. Who says: Oh I want to play a great class with different styles, strategies, skills with some great special moves- and thinks of warriors? They are traditional which means companies play it safe with these guys.
A lot of it boiled down to gear. They were actually fairly overpowered once they got geared, but yeah they probably were a bit shaky prior to getting the endgame gear needed to make them overpowered.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
My worst was the martial arts scrapper when CoH 1st came out..
the skills that class had were just horrid,yet somehow I suffered with it for 30 lvls.While my friends were doing their awesome attacks I was doing some lame Chun Li kick,hitting the mob for 10 points each.
I then finally switched to a blaster assault rifle and never turned back.
templar from aion , its so boring and bad dps that makes me always sleeping even in groups, and yes its really bad , i got mine to level 50 (before patch2.0), and they really need uber gear to stand a chance in pve/pvp >>they suck hard
from wow its palladin > godmode play makes game boring and feeling like u are xiting all the time
Magus from war >> incredible awfull to be true
on other hand in guild wars 1 , everyclass i played , ranger, warrior, elementalist, assassin, ritualist, mesmer,dervish and necro, they was wonderfull , and i get back to the game and i can tell you : guild wars had the best classes from all mmo's i played.
WoW Shaman - The worst class of any MMO I have ever played and I have played a lot.
Druid in Diablo 2. Seems like it was just mediocre at everything.
Berzerker in vanilla DAoC. Running around trying to hit ranged attackers sucked
Rogue, Blood Mage and Warrior in Vanguard. Nothing those classes could do another class couldn't do better.
FF defender in vanilla CoH after the great nerf.
Probably more but can't remember right now
enginner/magus in WAR..."can i get a group invite?".. "do you have Magnet?"..."noo"...then the answer is "no"
basicly every class in aion except the cleric...melee classes with animations that force you to stand still...
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
Tanking, on the whole, is not a boring role. There's aggro control and mob placement and push-- all sorts of factors to think about. It was just, for me, a lot more fun to do as a shadow knight or a paladin because, while there was less to work with (in terms of hp/ac, generally), there were just so many more options for how to get it done. I did run a warrior up to fairly high level at one point because I was envious of their raid tanking and being the first to get group tanking jobs, but I couldn't stand it. It felt like playing with one hand tied behind my back.
Being a cleric in EQ has 2 extremes-- it's either very boring or very exciting/stressful, depending on the group and what you're doing. It's a bit like being an enchanter in this regard-- it's boring when things are going well, but it's either tons o' fun or horrible, depending on your personal preferences, when things go awry. And it is basically the job of the puller and the tank to keep things as boring as possible for the healers and crowd control.
Someone else on this thread mentioned the EQ2 SK-- that was also pretty awful, a true disappointment for an EQ1 SK. That would have to be pretty high on my "worst class" list.
Maybe it's because I picked up the Shaman class after it had already been nerfed to hell and back (so I didn't notice how bad it may have sucked) but I really enjoyed playing mine 1-80 as enhance, raiding Naxx for a while as such, switching to elemental and going all the way through ICC with that, and then picking up unwanted Resto gear to get around the heroic queue quickly.
Maybe I'm just the purest example of ignorance being bliss, because I loved being a Shaman - having never seen how powerful it used to be.