There really aren't any WoW clones since WoW is an EQ clone. That would make everything EQ clones. People only say WoW clones because WoW is bigger and known by more people than EQ.
Or WoW is their only reference point as that is probably the MMO that brought them into the genre, once these millions of players get fed up with WoW we might get back to some normality around here because it's pretty darn obvious no other MMO will appeal to them or we would be seeing other western MMO's with millions of subscribers right now.
It's been said time and again that WoW is an anomally, your average MMO will probably end up with 300k subs add or subtract a few hundred k, none have bettered WoW and I even doubt SWTOR will get past the million mark, it's just not going to appeal to the WoW players, and lets not forget they will have a new expansion to play around with.
If we where to look at market share right now, excluding WoW I would guess the top 5 western MMO's all average similar subscriber numbers.
It is irrelevant if you can produce a WoW clone, it still won't be WoW, and it won't pull in 11 million plus subs.
From my experience the second someone plays a mmo and discovers it has a action bar, classes, mini map,tab target combat, the ability to quest from level 1 to cap and then raid at cap it's dubbed a wowclone... Does that sound about right? If not what is a WoWclone to you? I need to ask because honestly I think overlooking 90% of a games features and labeling it on its basic features is kinda dumb.
a "wow clone" to me is when I fire up a game, and it gives me the feeling that I've just played world of warcraft for the past two hours, the feel of the game is exactly the same, same old with different textures, mind you, I played eq1 back in its prime, and no mmo after that has managed to replicate that feeling, so Ive never stumbled across a "eq clone"
From my experience the second someone plays a mmo and discovers it has a action bar, classes, mini map,tab target combat, the ability to quest from level 1 to cap and then raid at cap it's dubbed a wowclone... Does that sound about right? If not what is a WoWclone to you? I need to ask because honestly I think overlooking 90% of a games features and labeling it on its basic features is kinda dumb.
a "wow clone" to me is when I fire up a game, and it gives me the feeling that I've just played world of warcraft for the past two hours, the feel of the game is exactly the same, same old with different textures, mind you, I played eq1 back in its prime, and no mmo after that has managed to replicate that feeling, so Ive never stumbled across a "eq clone"
I know that feeling is called burn out.
Your burned out on the basic themepark concept.
Pick a class, play through multiple quest hubs, until you hit a cap and raid.
Their all the same in that way. Its why i prefer sandbox games.
But themeparks while all delievering the same basic concept do offer a gamer a different experience when you look at the games mechanics overall (which is the point of my thread).
Playing LOTRO currently, and I can say it feels nothing like WoW in the slightest (played since two months following launch). I'll agree that it's a quest grinder, but I feel no "rush" to hit endgame whatsoever. The crafting is shallow, but at least it's useful and profitable at pretty much any level.
The ex-wow guildies I have that have tried it says it's very reminiscent of EQ1, not WoW. I'm also happy with the way they've done PvP as it doesn't result in class balance nerfings monthly.
Since I'm paying a monthly subscription to WoW I guess you could call me a WoW supporter, that doesn't mean I agree with your opinion.
So you agree all game after WoW are exact clones of WoW... because thats what my thread is about lol.
Good to know....
Nope, never said that, or implied that. Some games have tried to replicate WoW and some have even come close, but not all games are exact WoW clones. I really am having a hard time following your intention with this thread. At first you asked for our opinion on a subject then switched to proving your point.
Pick a class, play through multiple quest hubs, until you hit a cap and raid.
Their all the same in that way. Its why i prefer sandbox games.
But themeparks while all delievering the same basic concept do offer a gamer a different experience when you look at the games mechanics overall (which is the point of my thread).
Exactly, but thats why I said wow clone rather than a burn out, as many(not all of them) of the themepark style games that has come out the past few years havent even had enough different/new mechanics to stand on their own, they've felt just like world of warcraft does, they have lacked their own experience so to say.
edit: English is not my main language, so my explanation translates a bit clumsily.
To me, it isn't so much quest mechanics or gameplay similarities that constitute a WoW clone as much as it is interface design.
WoW's interface just seems a ripoff from EQ1, in fact when EQ1 allowed player made interface skins there were some available that looked exactly like the planned WoW UI.
To me, it isn't so much quest mechanics or gameplay similarities that constitute a WoW clone as much as it is interface design.
Totally agree. But in addition, there's something about the "feel" of a game that can be classified as a WOW clone. It's a combination of the graphics, animations (yes WOW always has the superior polish), and overall presentation that makes me feel like I'm playing WOW. I felt it in LOTRO (my RL friends did as well), and I felt it in WAR. These games are by no means the true definition of clones of WOW, but It's not difficult to understand how the term "WOW clone" was coined.
I really believe that if EQ had hit sub numbers of the WOW-kind, we'd be discussing why people call them EQ clones in this very thread.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Since I'm paying a monthly subscription to WoW I guess you could call me a WoW supporter, that doesn't mean I agree with your opinion.
So you agree all game after WoW are exact clones of WoW... because thats what my thread is about lol.
Good to know....
Nope, never said that, or implied that. Some games have tried to replicate WoW and some have even come close, but not all games are exact WoW clones. I really am having a hard time following your intention with this thread. At first you asked for our opinion on a subject then switched to proving your point.
Ehh the thread was created on a commute. read my first two posts. I already knew the answer to my very own question.
The second posts was an attempt to clarify the first i even ask you to give me examples, feature by feature of any game thats an exact clone of WoW. There isn't one, I know this and it was fun to watch people twist the thread and use "Wowclones" other meaning (themepark genre).
Its a time waster thread, nothing to be taken seriously... Shit... I assumed it would get maybe three or four responses before it dropped off the front page.
Alright maybe this will help. Please break it down for me. I'll list a few games, you pick one and tell me why it's a clone of wow. Clones: Lotro, War, Aoc, Aion, there ya go, the four big releases and I'll even toss TOR to this. Please for the love of god exlain it to me...
As surprisingly noted in countless threads in the past, the term 'wow clone' is used by most to refer to class-restricted level-based hack-n-slash MMOs. By now there's probably been 30-40 million peple that have played WOW (unless their retention rate is through the roof) so 'EQ clone' has long been abandoned in favor of a term that the majority of people would be familiar with.
OK so you all realize that there really isnt a game in the genre that's exactly like WoW.
Good.
Heh you know why i posted this? I was exploring a bit in Lotro today and some douchebag came onto OOC chat and started saying the game was an exact clone of WoW lol.
After blasting this guy i figured i'd come here and get a few of my fellow mmorpg.com peoples opinions on the matter. And that opinion is? No game is an exact copy.
I mean seriously if i wanted a game like WoW, wouldnt i just play WoW?
And you know exactly what people mean when they use the term WOW clone to describe the subgenre of theme park games that did really get started with EQ 1 and has reached its Pinnacle with WOW. (and they don't mean they are exactly like WOW, which you are also well aware of)
Yes, its deragotory, and to use your example of LoTRO, I felt my soul wither when playing it, as I felt like it was just like WOW, and I gave up on it at level 30. It is a WOW clone, ROM is really a WOW clone, AOC, pretty much a WOW clone (I did like the combat system though).
Not sure what happened to you Rock, you're a spotlight poster and and suddently you've gone all preachy on everyone.
I'll continue to use the term WOW clone. No, I'm not mis-informed, ill-adviced, or unclear about what MMORPG's are all about. I don't suffer from a deficiency in intelligence, nor am I a "child", I just use a term that most everyone clearly understands what it means, but for some reason folks seem to take pleasure in splitting hairs over a totally silly concept.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WOW clone to me is a game that takes the themepark road and uses the same UI. LOTRO and Warhammer come to mind and we can all see how that worked out. One is now F2P the other on life support. Anyone who has played WOW and then either of these games can see not only an infuence but basically WOW in a different skin. There are others but those are two good examples of games that most are familiar with.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I try not to think or argue in such terms. Everyone thinks of something else when you say "WOW clone". A clone implicates identity, which can not be. Some things are way too general to really say anything, like radar or quests. I try to avoid such thinking and critizise or praise singular features instead of saying it is good/bad because it's like WOW. Such arguments mean zero to me.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
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Or WoW is their only reference point as that is probably the MMO that brought them into the genre, once these millions of players get fed up with WoW we might get back to some normality around here
because it's pretty darn obvious no other MMO will appeal to them or we would be seeing other western MMO's with millions of subscribers right now.
It's been said time and again that WoW is an anomally, your average MMO will probably end up with 300k subs add or subtract a few hundred k, none have bettered WoW and I even doubt SWTOR will get past the million mark, it's just not going to appeal to the WoW players, and lets not forget they will have a new expansion to play around with.
If we where to look at market share right now, excluding WoW I would guess the top 5 western MMO's all average similar subscriber numbers.
It is irrelevant if you can produce a WoW clone, it still won't be WoW, and it won't pull in 11 million plus subs.
So you agree all game after WoW are exact clones of WoW... because thats what my thread is about lol.
Good to know....
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
a "wow clone" to me is when I fire up a game, and it gives me the feeling that I've just played world of warcraft for the past two hours, the feel of the game is exactly the same, same old with different textures, mind you, I played eq1 back in its prime, and no mmo after that has managed to replicate that feeling, so Ive never stumbled across a "eq clone"
I know that feeling is called burn out.
Your burned out on the basic themepark concept.
Pick a class, play through multiple quest hubs, until you hit a cap and raid.
Their all the same in that way. Its why i prefer sandbox games.
But themeparks while all delievering the same basic concept do offer a gamer a different experience when you look at the games mechanics overall (which is the point of my thread).
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Playing LOTRO currently, and I can say it feels nothing like WoW in the slightest (played since two months following launch). I'll agree that it's a quest grinder, but I feel no "rush" to hit endgame whatsoever. The crafting is shallow, but at least it's useful and profitable at pretty much any level.
The ex-wow guildies I have that have tried it says it's very reminiscent of EQ1, not WoW. I'm also happy with the way they've done PvP as it doesn't result in class balance nerfings monthly.
The thread is not exactly very interesting or innovative either and indeed the new class mechanics are more entertaining.
Nope, never said that, or implied that. Some games have tried to replicate WoW and some have even come close, but not all games are exact WoW clones. I really am having a hard time following your intention with this thread. At first you asked for our opinion on a subject then switched to proving your point.
Exactly, but thats why I said wow clone rather than a burn out, as many(not all of them) of the themepark style games that has come out the past few years havent even had enough different/new mechanics to stand on their own, they've felt just like world of warcraft does, they have lacked their own experience so to say.
edit: English is not my main language, so my explanation translates a bit clumsily.
To me, it isn't so much quest mechanics or gameplay similarities that constitute a WoW clone as much as it is interface design.
WoW's interface just seems a ripoff from EQ1, in fact when EQ1 allowed player made interface skins there were some available that looked exactly like the planned WoW UI.
Does anyone in WoW actually use the stock UI?
Totally agree. But in addition, there's something about the "feel" of a game that can be classified as a WOW clone. It's a combination of the graphics, animations (yes WOW always has the superior polish), and overall presentation that makes me feel like I'm playing WOW. I felt it in LOTRO (my RL friends did as well), and I felt it in WAR. These games are by no means the true definition of clones of WOW, but It's not difficult to understand how the term "WOW clone" was coined.
I really believe that if EQ had hit sub numbers of the WOW-kind, we'd be discussing why people call them EQ clones in this very thread.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Ehh the thread was created on a commute. read my first two posts. I already knew the answer to my very own question.
The second posts was an attempt to clarify the first i even ask you to give me examples, feature by feature of any game thats an exact clone of WoW. There isn't one, I know this and it was fun to watch people twist the thread and use "Wowclones" other meaning (themepark genre).
Its a time waster thread, nothing to be taken seriously... Shit... I assumed it would get maybe three or four responses before it dropped off the front page.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
And you know exactly what people mean when they use the term WOW clone to describe the subgenre of theme park games that did really get started with EQ 1 and has reached its Pinnacle with WOW. (and they don't mean they are exactly like WOW, which you are also well aware of)
Yes, its deragotory, and to use your example of LoTRO, I felt my soul wither when playing it, as I felt like it was just like WOW, and I gave up on it at level 30. It is a WOW clone, ROM is really a WOW clone, AOC, pretty much a WOW clone (I did like the combat system though).
Not sure what happened to you Rock, you're a spotlight poster and and suddently you've gone all preachy on everyone.
I'll continue to use the term WOW clone. No, I'm not mis-informed, ill-adviced, or unclear about what MMORPG's are all about. I don't suffer from a deficiency in intelligence, nor am I a "child", I just use a term that most everyone clearly understands what it means, but for some reason folks seem to take pleasure in splitting hairs over a totally silly concept.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WOW clone to me is a game that takes the themepark road and uses the same UI. LOTRO and Warhammer come to mind and we can all see how that worked out. One is now F2P the other on life support. Anyone who has played WOW and then either of these games can see not only an infuence but basically WOW in a different skin. There are others but those are two good examples of games that most are familiar with.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I've gotten bored Kyleran...
This forum is the same. Its either EVE, EVE , EVE.
Sandbox for Life, Wow killer incomming or some mentally retarded Hype machine.
Im left to make these stupid threads on commutes that i havent fully thought out because noone else is posting anything of value.
Maybe ill take a break from here... because the topics even from the professional forum writers have become lame.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Actually Kyl this was a solid thread premise.
Like you always say though Kyl....forum posting is about PVP. WoW-clone is just another attack on par with Carebear.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I try not to think or argue in such terms. Everyone thinks of something else when you say "WOW clone". A clone implicates identity, which can not be. Some things are way too general to really say anything, like radar or quests. I try to avoid such thinking and critizise or praise singular features instead of saying it is good/bad because it's like WOW. Such arguments mean zero to me.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert