Bioware is probably a perfect fit for what they try to do with SW:TOR which IMO is to present SPRPG design and mechanics as a MMO to their SPRPG player base which is millions of people.... in order to milk it for years to come.
Now if we talk about MMORPGs, then obviously I will preffer developers who like to make games for people with imagination that look for freedom to expresss their creativity in a game world (sandbox).
There are not many of those companies around though because they cater to minority and that would never satisfy George Lucas's ego I'm afraid, why shoot for art when you can make billions from sheep is probably his moto.
Gaming is like everything else entertainment, the bigger the company behind a project the more you can expect of the project to be made for the masses which means a quick and short lived fun (think a blobkbuster movie that is great fun for 2 hours but by the time you get home you already forgot what the movie was about).
That type of concept is fine for SPRPGs that you play for 10-50 hours and look for the next one but for MMORPGS... not so much.
MMORPGs were awesome complex games with a lot of depth before they became mainstream because of the WoW success, the genre has been going downhill ever since.
WoW also gave my son cancer......
WoW didn't really dumb anything down. Blizzard just did something no MMO developer did before....
Make a (relitivily) polished MMO right from the get go.
EQ2 had more content than WoW, better graphics, in reality better everything. But WoW won out because of the IP and polish.
Bioware is probably a perfect fit for what they try to do with SW:TOR which IMO is to present SPRPG design and mechanics as a MMO to their SPRPG player base which is millions of people.... in order to milk it for years to come.
Now if we talk about MMORPGs, then obviously I will preffer developers who like to make games for people with imagination that look for freedom to expresss their creativity in a game world (sandbox).
There are not many of those companies around though because they cater to minority and that would never satisfy George Lucas's ego I'm afraid, why shoot for art when you can make billions from sheep is probably his moto.
Gaming is like everything else entertainment, the bigger the company behind a project the more you can expect of the project to be made for the masses which means a quick and short lived fun (think a blobkbuster movie that is great fun for 2 hours but by the time you get home you already forgot what the movie was about).
That type of concept is fine for SPRPGs that you play for 10-50 hours and look for the next one but for MMORPGS... not so much.
MMORPGs were awesome complex games with a lot of depth before they became mainstream because of the WoW success, the genre has been going downhill ever since.
WoW also gave my son cancer......
WoW didn't really dumb anything down. Blizzard just did something no MMO developer did before....
Make a (relitivily) polished MMO right from the get go.
EQ2 had more content than WoW, better graphics, in reality better everything. But WoW won out because of the IP and polish.
Though I enjoyed EQ2 for a short time, to me WOW was better because EQ2 had annoying instanced zones similar to Age of Conan while WOW was much more open world with seamless transitions between zones. Also, EQ2 lacked the same 'charm' that some of the zones in WOW had including the music. I don't know, to me, there was just something about the world in WOW that had me going back, but in EQ2, I just didn't feel that same pull to log in to see the world. Anyway, I respect your opinion as that game did pretty well.
Bioware and only Bioware are capable of doing it right. CCP or Anet? you have to be joking me.
I have to agree. Both sandbox and star wars fans have had their time in space with both Eve and SWG. If CCP had gotten their hands on this we would have ended up with another game that feels more like work than play. I prefer my games to be fun rather than doing the same shit on the computer when i get home that i've been doing all day at work.
Arenanet? Meh Guild Wars isnt enough to judge by, i'd still rather have Bioware doing it though as i've enjoyed every game of theirs i've played so far.
a) Bioware has never before made a MMO or anything multiplayer.
b) While all BW games were really cool, I could not right away imagine any of them as a multiplayer game without total redesign.
c) The last few BW games seemed like steps back. DA2 has human only and a premade char instead of many different racial origins. ME2 was more a story+shooter and little to no RPG at all.
d) They have the evil of EA behind them.
e) All RPGs of BW of the last years have been tunnel worlds and not open worlds at all.
Doesn't necessarily have to say anything, but there are some reasons to be skeptical.
A) Kinda caught my attention, as it's not exactly true. NWN was an online/multi-player game. As well as they have plenty of devs in Austin with MMO experience.
The rest, that is your opinion, who's to argue with it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Addition: OP, Bioware will be fine with TOR... they're making a themepark mmo after all. which is basically just a single player rpg anyway. Its going to be epic no worries.
Agree 100%. Just like wow it will be a great game and a terrible mmo, however that's at least worth a few months of entertainment.
a) Bioware has never before made a MMO or anything multiplayer.
b) While all BW games were really cool, I could not right away imagine any of them as a multiplayer game without total redesign.
c) The last few BW games seemed like steps back. DA2 has human only and a premade char instead of many different racial origins. ME2 was more a story+shooter and little to no RPG at all.
d) They have the evil of EA behind them.
e) All RPGs of BW of the last years have been tunnel worlds and not open worlds at all.
Doesn't necessarily have to say anything, but there are some reasons to be skeptical.
A) Kinda caught my attention, as it's not exactly true. NWN was an online/multi-player game. As well as they have plenty of devs in Austin with MMO experience.
The rest, that is your opinion, who's to argue with it?
Ok point taken. Tho did they really made that themselves?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Bioware and only Bioware are capable of doing it right. CCP or Anet? you have to be joking me.
I have to agree. Both sandbox and star wars fans have had their time in space with both Eve and SWG. If CCP had gotten their hands on this we would have ended up with another game that feels more like work than play. I prefer my games to be fun rather than doing the same shit on the computer when i get home that i've been doing all day at work.
Arenanet? Meh Guild Wars isnt enough to judge by, i'd still rather have Bioware doing it though as i've enjoyed every game of theirs i've played so far.
Lol, just because you hate what they've done in the past doesn't mean you won't like what they do in the future. Both CCP and Anet have something in common; finding out and delivering what their community wants. I don't know about you but I'd want that kind of developer on any and every game.
What CCP could do for a game like Star Wars is what SOE did for SWG PRE-NGE. When people tell me stories about the old SWG all I can think of is how Eve is very similar.
SWG could have done better with giving players the ability to be Jedis/Siths from the get-go totally avoiding the NGE scenario but they didn't, which is what killed SWG. If SWTOR kept what was good about SWG and improved on what was bad it would be the best Star Wars experience for a long time.... In many ways, CCP and Anet, have proven that they can listen to their fanbase and use feedback to improve their games. It would be short-sighted to say that there isn't a possiblity for them to do the same with a different game they were given to develop on because they have done it and they are doing it for game they have developed and are developing right now.
a) Bioware has never before made a MMO or anything multiplayer.
b) While all BW games were really cool, I could not right away imagine any of them as a multiplayer game without total redesign.
c) The last few BW games seemed like steps back. DA2 has human only and a premade char instead of many different racial origins. ME2 was more a story+shooter and little to no RPG at all.
d) They have the evil of EA behind them.
e) All RPGs of BW of the last years have been tunnel worlds and not open worlds at all.
Doesn't necessarily have to say anything, but there are some reasons to be skeptical.
didnt you rage quit 3 times now and claim to leave SWTOR forums like half a dozen times?
a) Bioware has never before made a MMO or anything multiplayer.
b) While all BW games were really cool, I could not right away imagine any of them as a multiplayer game without total redesign.
c) The last few BW games seemed like steps back. DA2 has human only and a premade char instead of many different racial origins. ME2 was more a story+shooter and little to no RPG at all.
d) They have the evil of EA behind them.
e) All RPGs of BW of the last years have been tunnel worlds and not open worlds at all.
Doesn't necessarily have to say anything, but there are some reasons to be skeptical.
didnt you rage quit 3 times now and claim to leave SWTOR forums like half a dozen times?
He is a quiter and although the mods allowed him to get his account back, he will always be known as a quiter.
Bioware and only Bioware are capable of doing it right. CCP or Anet? you have to be joking me.
I have to agree. Both sandbox and star wars fans have had their time in space with both Eve and SWG. If CCP had gotten their hands on this we would have ended up with another game that feels more like work than play. I prefer my games to be fun rather than doing the same shit on the computer when i get home that i've been doing all day at work.
Arenanet? Meh Guild Wars isnt enough to judge by, i'd still rather have Bioware doing it though as i've enjoyed every game of theirs i've played so far.
Lol, just because you hate what they've done in the past doesn't mean you won't like what they do in the future. Both CCP and Anet have something in common; finding out and delivering what their community wants. I don't know about you but I'd want that kind of developer on any and every game.
What CCP could do for a game like Star Wars is what SOE did for SWG PRE-NGE. When people tell me stories about the old SWG all I can think of is how Eve is very similar.
SWG could have done better with giving players the ability to be Jedis/Siths from the get-go totally avoiding the NGE scenario but they didn't, which is what killed SWG. If SWTOR kept what was good about SWG and improved on what was bad it would be the best Star Wars experience for a long time.... In many ways, CCP and Anet, have proven that they can listen to their fanbase and use feedback to improve their games. It would be short-sighted to say that there isn't a possiblity for them to do the same with a different game they were given to develop on because they have done it and they are doing it for game they have developed and are developing right now.
Almost all of you post was completely irrelevant to what i said, which was my opinion btw so not wrong in any way shape or form.
I happen to love Bioware and I'm a Star Wars fanatic...from the moment I 1st heard the rumor about Bioware developing a Star Wars MMO (within weeks of the NGE), I've been excited about what they could develop. Every day there seem to be more complaints about Bioware and the fact that they are developing this game. While I understand concern and player passions about what "they" would love to see in the game (I have my own list too), I am also shocked by all the hate I see directed towards Bioware.
So let me ask - Who would you rather see developing the next Star Wars MMO?
Blizzard? CCP? SoE? Cryptic? NCSoft? Of that list, I'm still THRILLED we have Bioware designing this game. It won't be everything everyone wants it to be (no game is), but of all the companies out there, Bioware is hands down my favorite.
CCP or Bethesda CCP which knows how to make a solid game and Bethesda for its work on the Elder Scrolls and Fallout III and they know how to pack in content and lots of things to do without limiting you to just the STORY like Bioware is.
Bioware and only Bioware are capable of doing it right. CCP or Anet? you have to be joking me.
Wow. Seriously? You think that ONLY Bioware could pull off something so blatantly standard? There's a whole stable of developers who could do the exact same thing. Bioware ain't exactly reaching for the stars here, but at least they have your head comfortably nestled deep inside them so no matter where they sit down to talk about the next amazingly ordinary feature they will implement, they can do so with soft comfort.
a) Bioware has never before made a MMO or anything multiplayer.
b) While all BW games were really cool, I could not right away imagine any of them as a multiplayer game without total redesign.
c) The last few BW games seemed like steps back. DA2 has human only and a premade char instead of many different racial origins. ME2 was more a story+shooter and little to no RPG at all.
d) They have the evil of EA behind them.
e) All RPGs of BW of the last years have been tunnel worlds and not open worlds at all.
Doesn't necessarily have to say anything, but there are some reasons to be skeptical.
A) Kinda caught my attention, as it's not exactly true. NWN was an online/multi-player game. As well as they have plenty of devs in Austin with MMO experience.
The rest, that is your opinion, who's to argue with it?
Ok point taken. Tho did they really made that themselves?
Not completely no, if you're looking at the many player created worlds, that were very much in their own way mini-MMO's, to draw some form of related comparison.
They did however create the tools that made this possible. On a related note, it's interesting their looking for DEVs with multi-player experience for the ME3 team.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I actually would have liked to have seen Koster get the budget and just as importantly the amount of time Bioware has gotten do his version of star wars. Other than that, I await biowares version. Although I play and enjoy eve, I am unsure of whether CCP could do the IP justice.
a) Bioware has never before made a MMO or anything multiplayer.
b) While all BW games were really cool, I could not right away imagine any of them as a multiplayer game without total redesign.
c) The last few BW games seemed like steps back. DA2 has human only and a premade char instead of many different racial origins. ME2 was more a story+shooter and little to no RPG at all.
d) They have the evil of EA behind them.
e) All RPGs of BW of the last years have been tunnel worlds and not open worlds at all.
Doesn't necessarily have to say anything, but there are some reasons to be skeptical.
A) Kinda caught my attention, as it's not exactly true. NWN was an online/multi-player game. As well as they have plenty of devs in Austin with MMO experience.
The rest, that is your opinion, who's to argue with it?
Ok point taken. Tho did they really made that themselves?
Yes, they did make NWN by themselves. They did not make the sequel (which was not as well received). However, even it was made using the engine that Bioware originally created for KOTOR.
Edit: Not counting player-made content of course...
I actually would have liked to have seen Koster get the budget and just as importantly the amount of time Bioware has gotten do his version of star wars. Other than that, I await biowares version. Although I play and enjoy eve, I am unsure of whether CCP could do the IP justice.
Regards
SWG actually had a very long development cycle.
The reason it seemed as though they didn't have time, was because mid development they scrapped what they were doing for the most part and basically started over. Making it seem as though it was a rushed product. This is what I've heard many times anyway, take it as you want.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So far it seems like CCP is the only other valid contender (numerous support). I've never played EVE so I don't know for certain how much it would suit "my" style - I know some very staunch EVE supporters myself though, so I can accept that they'd make a decent run at it.
However, there's no possible way CCP wouldn't be loathed even more-so than Bioware for making the next Star Wars MMO. CCP would have ten times the complaints because space would be the focus, not a backdrop of the story. Their lack of anything ground based, IMO, puts them in league with companies like Cryptic (no offense to CCP, just pointing out that STO's ground game blows).
So far, I'm still quite confident that Bioware was the obvious, and best, choice for this game. I'm still looking for any reason to doubt that and nobody has even gotten close yet - levin70 got closest suggesting giving Koster full reigns, but that's not really looking at current developers and picking which would have been better .
CCP would have been a great "runner up" I guess...maybe they can develop an X-Wing v Tie MMO?!
Bioware and only Bioware are capable of doing it right. CCP or Anet? you have to be joking me.
I have to agree. Both sandbox and star wars fans have had their time in space with both Eve and SWG. If CCP had gotten their hands on this we would have ended up with another game that feels more like work than play. I prefer my games to be fun rather than doing the same shit on the computer when i get home that i've been doing all day at work.
Arenanet? Meh Guild Wars isnt enough to judge by, i'd still rather have Bioware doing it though as i've enjoyed every game of theirs i've played so far.
Lol, just because you hate what they've done in the past doesn't mean you won't like what they do in the future. Both CCP and Anet have something in common; finding out and delivering what their community wants. I don't know about you but I'd want that kind of developer on any and every game.
What CCP could do for a game like Star Wars is what SOE did for SWG PRE-NGE. When people tell me stories about the old SWG all I can think of is how Eve is very similar.
SWG could have done better with giving players the ability to be Jedis/Siths from the get-go totally avoiding the NGE scenario but they didn't, which is what killed SWG. If SWTOR kept what was good about SWG and improved on what was bad it would be the best Star Wars experience for a long time.... In many ways, CCP and Anet, have proven that they can listen to their fanbase and use feedback to improve their games. It would be short-sighted to say that there isn't a possiblity for them to do the same with a different game they were given to develop on because they have done it and they are doing it for game they have developed and are developing right now.
Almost all of you post was completely irrelevant to what i said, which was my opinion btw so not wrong in any way shape or form.
I never said you were wrong and I'm not arguing with your opinion, just giving you my point of view and how was my post irrelevant to what you were saying? We are talking about the same things and I was dropping my view in reply to yours and not directly arguing with it.
So far it seems like CCP is the only other valid contender (numerous support). I've never played EVE so I don't know for certain how much it would suit "my" style - I know some very staunch EVE supporters myself though, so I can accept that they'd make a decent run at it.
However, there's no possible way CCP wouldn't be loathed even more-so than Bioware for making the next Star Wars MMO. CCP would have ten times the complaints because space would be the focus, not a backdrop of the story. Their lack of anything ground based, IMO, puts them in league with companies like Cryptic (no offense to CCP, just pointing out that STO's ground game blows).
So far, I'm still quite confident that Bioware was the obvious, and best, choice for this game. I'm still looking for any reason to doubt that and nobody has even gotten close yet - levin70 got closest suggesting giving Koster full reigns, but that's not really looking at current developers and picking which would have been better .
CCP would have been a great "runner up" I guess...maybe they can develop an X-Wing v Tie MMO?!
If we were to take the company that is CCP as it is right now, I'd say they'd be able to pull a Star Wars MMO off with ground combat and all that jibber jabber but they'd release it in a form that allows them to iterate on it as time goes on.
I came to this conclusion because of the amount of projects that CCP is working right now; DUST 514, Incarna, Incursion and WoD.
If they can work on all those projects at once then they can (if all those developers were free of projects) theoretically, with their expertise, make a single world with all those elements in it; basically Star Wars.
lol right back at the quotes aimed at me. Bioware knows what is fun to players, maybe not you particularly, but for the majority of the Star Wars fans.
"Bioware and only Bioware is capable of doing it right."
I made the comment by weighing the strengths and weaknesses of all the developers, what they have done and haven't done, how they operate, philosophies, and goals. And I still stand by that comment. Alas, regardless how objectively I put it I'll still get e-ragers from the internets.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
WoW also gave my son cancer......
WoW didn't really dumb anything down. Blizzard just did something no MMO developer did before....
Make a (relitivily) polished MMO right from the get go.
EQ2 had more content than WoW, better graphics, in reality better everything. But WoW won out because of the IP and polish.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Though I enjoyed EQ2 for a short time, to me WOW was better because EQ2 had annoying instanced zones similar to Age of Conan while WOW was much more open world with seamless transitions between zones. Also, EQ2 lacked the same 'charm' that some of the zones in WOW had including the music. I don't know, to me, there was just something about the world in WOW that had me going back, but in EQ2, I just didn't feel that same pull to log in to see the world. Anyway, I respect your opinion as that game did pretty well.
There Is Always Hope!
Bioware and only Bioware are capable of doing it right. CCP or Anet? you have to be joking me.
I have to agree. Both sandbox and star wars fans have had their time in space with both Eve and SWG. If CCP had gotten their hands on this we would have ended up with another game that feels more like work than play. I prefer my games to be fun rather than doing the same shit on the computer when i get home that i've been doing all day at work.
Arenanet? Meh Guild Wars isnt enough to judge by, i'd still rather have Bioware doing it though as i've enjoyed every game of theirs i've played so far.
A) Kinda caught my attention, as it's not exactly true. NWN was an online/multi-player game. As well as they have plenty of devs in Austin with MMO experience.
The rest, that is your opinion, who's to argue with it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Agree 100%. Just like wow it will be a great game and a terrible mmo, however that's at least worth a few months of entertainment.
Ok point taken. Tho did they really made that themselves?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Lol, just because you hate what they've done in the past doesn't mean you won't like what they do in the future. Both CCP and Anet have something in common; finding out and delivering what their community wants. I don't know about you but I'd want that kind of developer on any and every game.
What CCP could do for a game like Star Wars is what SOE did for SWG PRE-NGE. When people tell me stories about the old SWG all I can think of is how Eve is very similar.
SWG could have done better with giving players the ability to be Jedis/Siths from the get-go totally avoiding the NGE scenario but they didn't, which is what killed SWG. If SWTOR kept what was good about SWG and improved on what was bad it would be the best Star Wars experience for a long time.... In many ways, CCP and Anet, have proven that they can listen to their fanbase and use feedback to improve their games. It would be short-sighted to say that there isn't a possiblity for them to do the same with a different game they were given to develop on because they have done it and they are doing it for game they have developed and are developing right now.
This is not a game.
didnt you rage quit 3 times now and claim to leave SWTOR forums like half a dozen times?
He is a quiter and although the mods allowed him to get his account back, he will always be known as a quiter.
Almost all of you post was completely irrelevant to what i said, which was my opinion btw so not wrong in any way shape or form.
CCP or Bethesda CCP which knows how to make a solid game and Bethesda for its work on the Elder Scrolls and Fallout III and they know how to pack in content and lots of things to do without limiting you to just the STORY like Bioware is.
Wow. Seriously? You think that ONLY Bioware could pull off something so blatantly standard? There's a whole stable of developers who could do the exact same thing. Bioware ain't exactly reaching for the stars here, but at least they have your head comfortably nestled deep inside them so no matter where they sit down to talk about the next amazingly ordinary feature they will implement, they can do so with soft comfort.
Not completely no, if you're looking at the many player created worlds, that were very much in their own way mini-MMO's, to draw some form of related comparison.
They did however create the tools that made this possible. On a related note, it's interesting their looking for DEVs with multi-player experience for the ME3 team.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I actually would have liked to have seen Koster get the budget and just as importantly the amount of time Bioware has gotten do his version of star wars. Other than that, I await biowares version. Although I play and enjoy eve, I am unsure of whether CCP could do the IP justice.
Regards
Yes, they did make NWN by themselves. They did not make the sequel (which was not as well received). However, even it was made using the engine that Bioware originally created for KOTOR.
Edit: Not counting player-made content of course...
SWG actually had a very long development cycle.
The reason it seemed as though they didn't have time, was because mid development they scrapped what they were doing for the most part and basically started over. Making it seem as though it was a rushed product. This is what I've heard many times anyway, take it as you want.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Thanks for keeping this mostly on-topic everyone.
So far it seems like CCP is the only other valid contender (numerous support). I've never played EVE so I don't know for certain how much it would suit "my" style - I know some very staunch EVE supporters myself though, so I can accept that they'd make a decent run at it.
However, there's no possible way CCP wouldn't be loathed even more-so than Bioware for making the next Star Wars MMO. CCP would have ten times the complaints because space would be the focus, not a backdrop of the story. Their lack of anything ground based, IMO, puts them in league with companies like Cryptic (no offense to CCP, just pointing out that STO's ground game blows).
So far, I'm still quite confident that Bioware was the obvious, and best, choice for this game. I'm still looking for any reason to doubt that and nobody has even gotten close yet - levin70 got closest suggesting giving Koster full reigns, but that's not really looking at current developers and picking which would have been better
.
CCP would have been a great "runner up" I guess...maybe they can develop an X-Wing v Tie MMO?!
Bungie.
I never said you were wrong and I'm not arguing with your opinion, just giving you my point of view and how was my post irrelevant to what you were saying? We are talking about the same things and I was dropping my view in reply to yours and not directly arguing with it.
This is not a game.
This, I'd be OK with. I'd prefer to see them make Battlefront 3 tbh.
If we were to take the company that is CCP as it is right now, I'd say they'd be able to pull a Star Wars MMO off with ground combat and all that jibber jabber but they'd release it in a form that allows them to iterate on it as time goes on.
I came to this conclusion because of the amount of projects that CCP is working right now; DUST 514, Incarna, Incursion and WoD.
If they can work on all those projects at once then they can (if all those developers were free of projects) theoretically, with their expertise, make a single world with all those elements in it; basically Star Wars.
This is not a game.
lol right back at the quotes aimed at me. Bioware knows what is fun to players, maybe not you particularly, but for the majority of the Star Wars fans.
"Bioware and only Bioware is capable of doing it right."
I made the comment by weighing the strengths and weaknesses of all the developers, what they have done and haven't done, how they operate, philosophies, and goals. And I still stand by that comment. Alas, regardless how objectively I put it I'll still get e-ragers from the internets.
Well, since SWTOR really has little to do with space or space combat, Bioware probably is the logical choice.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Blizzard creates the ground game, CCP the space.
Gold.