The example LotRO pic you used has extreme, night-time lighting. Plus it looks like it's oversaturated. There are many, many other screenshots that use more realistic and less-cartoony lighting. Plus your example highlighted one weak point of the game, imo: character models. The game world itself is awesome. The character models lag behind quite a bit.
Why? Because they look animated?
The model detail. Compared to the game world, they look too simplistic. Not all models look too simple, but player toons generally feel that way to me.
Because the game was aiming for a more stylistic approach with its graphics instead of hyper realism.
I don't buy that excuse. The toons should match the game world better. They don't need to be hyper-realistic. The game world itself isn't despite being visually stunning. Also, I added an edit about animations needing some polishing. Some of the movement just looks hokey.
This isn't a huge issue for me really, it's just something that irks me with it.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
You guys know that feeling you got when you first played a mmorpg? That feeling that most gamers spend the rest of their gaming careers to find again? Well for me only games like SWG, WoW & EVE have ever recreated that feeling I had when playing UO for the first time until now. LotRO is such a wonderfully satisfying pve experience that I have become totally immersed to the point of unsubscribing to EVE!!!!! Which is crazy since I'm obsessed with that game ( I have a 8x10 poster of a megathron on my bedroom wall that's how crazy I am for that game). It's freaking nuts that this game is that good... I've been leveling a dwarf guardian and even dabbled with a champion, warden and captain and their all fantastic!!! I joined a small kin and these people are the most helpful people I've ever met. All I'n all the game is an absolute pleasure... So to those that haven't found a game that held them like their first, have faith and give games a chance it might be an older game that you ignored initially that does it.
I've played this one off and on and I have to agree its one of the best PVE experinces out there. What server are you on and maybe I'll roll up a guy and do a quest or two with you sometime?
The example LotRO pic you used has extreme, night-time lighting. Plus it looks like it's oversaturated. There are many, many other screenshots that use more realistic and less-cartoony lighting. Plus your example highlighted one weak point of the game, imo: character models. The game world itself is awesome. The character models lag behind quite a bit.
Why? Because they look animated?
The model detail. Compared to the game world, they look too simplistic. Not all models look too simple, but player toons generally feel that way to me.
Because the game was aiming for a more stylistic approach with its graphics instead of hyper realism.
I don't buy that excuse. The toons should match the game world better. They don't need to be hyper-realistic. The game world itself isn't despite being visually stunning. Also, I added an edit about animations needing some polishing. Some of the movement just looks hokey.
This isn't a huge issue for me really, it's just something that irks me with it.
Just trying to convince you that LotRO isn't exactly a game that shoots for realism.
You guys know that feeling you got when you first played a mmorpg? That feeling that most gamers spend the rest of their gaming careers to find again? Well for me only games like SWG, WoW & EVE have ever recreated that feeling I had when playing UO for the first time until now. LotRO is such a wonderfully satisfying pve experience that I have become totally immersed to the point of unsubscribing to EVE!!!!! Which is crazy since I'm obsessed with that game ( I have a 8x10 poster of a megathron on my bedroom wall that's how crazy I am for that game). It's freaking nuts that this game is that good... I've been leveling a dwarf guardian and even dabbled with a champion, warden and captain and their all fantastic!!! I joined a small kin and these people are the most helpful people I've ever met. All I'n all the game is an absolute pleasure... So to those that haven't found a game that held them like their first, have faith and give games a chance it might be an older game that you ignored initially that does it.
While I've heard people talk about "recreating" that feeling they got from the first mmo they played I luckily haven't been struck by that need, I see mmorpgs as nothing more than video games and while I enjoyed my first mmorpg it didn't do more for me than playing pacman,mario bros, final fantasy,zelda, Ninja Gaiden and the list goes on, but I have to agree with any sentiment you gave about LOTRO it is a wonderful pve experience and quite honestly it has the best community I've ever encountered in an mmorpg (I wonder if the total lack of pvp has anything to do with that), and with the new f2p hybrid model I think they have moved the game in another step forward which is seemingly more and more difficult for many mmorpgs.
I can't say for certain I'll be playing LOTRO until they close the doors but I can certainly say that LOTRO will always hold a special place with me as far as what an mmorpg company can deliver and how they can energize a playerbase.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I agree that this game has fantastic PvE, and now that it went FTP, it is a deal too good to pass up. Only thing that bothers me is the lack of true PvP. I tried MP but it just doesn't do it for me. Regardless, I am having a blast and plan to stay awhile.
On a side-note, RockGod did you ever get your sound issue fixed?
95% of all percentages quoted on the internet are made up on the spot 50% of the time.
Well, there's no use in arguing the validity of one's opinion, but it does strike me as odd that a game which I felt was a generic WoW clone is now considered the best thing since old school UO.
Care to explain why you think it's a WoW clone?
Nowadays, all those sandbox loving carebears consider every game that has quests it in it a WoW clone, aka themepark. Funny isn't it?
The interface is exactly the same
Quest mechanics are the same
Crafting is largely the same
Both of cartoony art styles
About the only differences I can think of lie in the fact that LotRO has trait grinding (...yay...), not much of an endgame, zero PvP, and a slow paced combat system, yet people fawn over this game because it has such a great community and amazing draw distance. If LotRO is worth it to you, enjoy. It simply wasn't for me.
Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P, I found the art style to be horribly generic outside of a few of the elvish areas, and I struggled to think of anything I was doing in LotRO that was different or better than what I would be doing in WoW. As a result, I re-subbed to WoW and never looked back.
"Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P"
This entire post is opinion based so as you have already pointed out there is simply no right or wrong just how one feels while engaging in the activity (in this case playing LOTRO) but you totally lost me on the sentence I quoted from you, granted I don't visit the forums of games I play very often but I don't recall much of a reaction either way about the f2p relaunch, I only visit mmorpg for my gaming news (or my gameinformer) so maybe there were things going on LOTRO forums but there was very little debate about it here from what I recall.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Well for me only games like SWG, WoW & EVE have ever recreated that feeling I had when playing UO for the first time until now. LotRO is such a wonderfully satisfying pve experience. . .
I stopped reading right there. UO had a player-centric ecosystem of trades, merchandising, housing, open pvp with consequenes, etc.
I'd get bored with a vanilla pve-centric ecosystem where players don't play a central role with influencing game-play. I'd stick with EVE.
Yet nothing you mentioned actually affected the actual game play of UO. Sorry but making a player run a maze of abandoned houses and ships to get to a monster is not affecting gameplay.
It all affected the game-play of UO. It was a player-centric ecosystem. Your deflection is, well, wrong. So, go ahead and play a pve-centric single-player-esque whack-a-mole LOTRO where your interaction is against predictable coded mobs that offer absolutley no community or massively-multiplayer value, in a supposed massively-multiplayer game. I was just saying....that's all.
Actually, what it sounds like you are saying is that your idea of what MMO's should be is the only way a true MMO would work. Everyone else is doing it wrong.
Glad to hear you are having fun in LOTRO OP. I went back myself and have found the game to be greatly improved from what I remember at launch. I plan on taking this new character through the story again just to see the changes and enjoy the ride. It is a good game for what it is.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Well, there's no use in arguing the validity of one's opinion, but it does strike me as odd that a game which I felt was a generic WoW clone is now considered the best thing since old school UO.
Care to explain why you think it's a WoW clone?
Nowadays, all those sandbox loving carebears consider every game that has quests it in it a WoW clone, aka themepark. Funny isn't it?
The interface is exactly the same
Quest mechanics are the same
Crafting is largely the same
Both of cartoony art styles
About the only differences I can think of lie in the fact that LotRO has trait grinding (...yay...), not much of an endgame, zero PvP, and a slow paced combat system, yet people fawn over this game because it has such a great community and amazing draw distance. If LotRO is worth it to you, enjoy. It simply wasn't for me.
Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P, I found the art style to be horribly generic outside of a few of the elvish areas, and I struggled to think of anything I was doing in LotRO that was different or better than what I would be doing in WoW. As a result, I re-subbed to WoW and never looked back.
"Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P"
This entire post is opinion based so as you have already pointed out there is simply no right or wrong just how one feels while engaging in the activity (in this case playing LOTRO) but you totally lost me on the sentence I quoted from you, granted I don't visit the forums of games I play very often but I don't recall much of a reaction either way about the f2p relaunch, I only visit mmorpg for my gaming news (or my gameinformer) so maybe there were things going on LOTRO forums but there was very little debate about it here from what I recall.
Heh yeah, you should do some forum digging here and on the official LoTRO boards -- particularly the Landroval server boards.
The example LotRO pic you used has extreme, night-time lighting. Plus it looks like it's oversaturated. There are many, many other screenshots that use more realistic and less-cartoony lighting. Plus your example highlighted one weak point of the game, imo: character models. The game world itself is awesome. The character models lag behind quite a bit.
Why? Because they look animated?
The model detail. Compared to the game world, they look too simplistic. Not all models look too simple, but player toons generally feel that way to me.
Because the game was aiming for a more stylistic approach with its graphics instead of hyper realism.
I don't buy that excuse. The toons should match the game world better. They don't need to be hyper-realistic. The game world itself isn't despite being visually stunning. Also, I added an edit about animations needing some polishing. Some of the movement just looks hokey.
This isn't a huge issue for me really, it's just something that irks me with it.
Just trying to convince you that LotRO isn't exactly a game that shoots for realism.
I know this, but there's a gap in quality between the game world and the character toons and some animations.
Back to your earlier point, you can't compare LotRO's graphics with WoW's. At least not the current version of WoW. The graphics are on another level despite weaker toon quality.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
The example LotRO pic you used has extreme, night-time lighting. Plus it looks like it's oversaturated. There are many, many other screenshots that use more realistic and less-cartoony lighting. Plus your example highlighted one weak point of the game, imo: character models. The game world itself is awesome. The character models lag behind quite a bit.
Why? Because they look animated?
The model detail. Compared to the game world, they look too simplistic. Not all models look too simple, but player toons generally feel that way to me.
Because the game was aiming for a more stylistic approach with its graphics instead of hyper realism.
I don't buy that excuse. The toons should match the game world better. They don't need to be hyper-realistic. The game world itself isn't despite being visually stunning. Also, I added an edit about animations needing some polishing. Some of the movement just looks hokey.
This isn't a huge issue for me really, it's just something that irks me with it.
Just trying to convince you that LotRO isn't exactly a game that shoots for realism.
I know this, but there's a gap in quality between the game world and the character toons and some animations.
Back to your earlier point, you can't compare LotRO's graphics with WoW's. At least not the current version of WoW. The graphics are on another level despite weaker toon quality.
Actually I can. Neither opted for a realistic style.
There's really no rhyme or reason behind Turbine's decision to give LotRO a more animated look, and I'm not sure why so many MMORPGs are going for the more stylized, cartoon inspired look instead of a more realistic tone.
The example LotRO pic you used has extreme, night-time lighting. Plus it looks like it's oversaturated. There are many, many other screenshots that use more realistic and less-cartoony lighting. Plus your example highlighted one weak point of the game, imo: character models. The game world itself is awesome. The character models lag behind quite a bit.
Why? Because they look animated?
The model detail. Compared to the game world, they look too simplistic. Not all models look too simple, but player toons generally feel that way to me.
Because the game was aiming for a more stylistic approach with its graphics instead of hyper realism.
I don't buy that excuse. The toons should match the game world better. They don't need to be hyper-realistic. The game world itself isn't despite being visually stunning. Also, I added an edit about animations needing some polishing. Some of the movement just looks hokey.
This isn't a huge issue for me really, it's just something that irks me with it.
Just trying to convince you that LotRO isn't exactly a game that shoots for realism.
I know this, but there's a gap in quality between the game world and the character toons and some animations.
Back to your earlier point, you can't compare LotRO's graphics with WoW's. At least not the current version of WoW. The graphics are on another level despite weaker toon quality.
Actually I can. Neither opted for a realistic style.
There's really no rhyme or reason behind Turbine's decision to give LotRO a more animated look, and I'm not sure why so many MMORPGs are going for the more stylized, cartoon inspired look instead of a more realistic tone.
LotRO's graphics are more realistic than WoW's. They are not the same quality. I'm not really sure why you're arguing against this when there are hundreds of screenshots in the photo galleries on this site that prove this. There are some screenshots that could be mistaken for photos. Sure neither is going for hyper-realism, but I can't think of any MMOs that are except for maybe MO.
If you make the generalization wide-enough, which you are, then you can lump them into the "not hyper realistic" box. But then you'd be including pretty much every MMO to date.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
The example LotRO pic you used has extreme, night-time lighting. Plus it looks like it's oversaturated. There are many, many other screenshots that use more realistic and less-cartoony lighting. Plus your example highlighted one weak point of the game, imo: character models. The game world itself is awesome. The character models lag behind quite a bit.
Why? Because they look animated?
The model detail. Compared to the game world, they look too simplistic. Not all models look too simple, but player toons generally feel that way to me.
Because the game was aiming for a more stylistic approach with its graphics instead of hyper realism.
I don't buy that excuse. The toons should match the game world better. They don't need to be hyper-realistic. The game world itself isn't despite being visually stunning. Also, I added an edit about animations needing some polishing. Some of the movement just looks hokey.
This isn't a huge issue for me really, it's just something that irks me with it.
Just trying to convince you that LotRO isn't exactly a game that shoots for realism.
I know this, but there's a gap in quality between the game world and the character toons and some animations.
Back to your earlier point, you can't compare LotRO's graphics with WoW's. At least not the current version of WoW. The graphics are on another level despite weaker toon quality.
Actually I can. Neither opted for a realistic style.
There's really no rhyme or reason behind Turbine's decision to give LotRO a more animated look, and I'm not sure why so many MMORPGs are going for the more stylized, cartoon inspired look instead of a more realistic tone.
LotRO's graphics are more realistic than WoW's. They are not the same quality. I'm not really sure why you're arguing against this when there are hundreds of screenshots in the photo galleries on this site that prove this. There are some screenshots that could be mistaken for photos. Sure neither is going for hyper-realism, but I can't think of any MMOs that are except for maybe MO.
If you make the generalization wide-enough, which you are, then you can lump them into the "not hyper realistic" box. But then you'd be including pretty much every MMO to date.
I think you made a decent point in that for some to compare LOTRO graphical quality to that of WOW is an insult but it really as you stated depends on the "levels" people are willing to acknowledge that exist in everything, no neither game is going for hyper realism but in acting upon obvious observations I think it's fairly easy to say that they aren't that close either.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
The example LotRO pic you used has extreme, night-time lighting. Plus it looks like it's oversaturated. There are many, many other screenshots that use more realistic and less-cartoony lighting. Plus your example highlighted one weak point of the game, imo: character models. The game world itself is awesome. The character models lag behind quite a bit.
Why? Because they look animated?
The model detail. Compared to the game world, they look too simplistic. Not all models look too simple, but player toons generally feel that way to me.
Because the game was aiming for a more stylistic approach with its graphics instead of hyper realism.
I don't buy that excuse. The toons should match the game world better. They don't need to be hyper-realistic. The game world itself isn't despite being visually stunning. Also, I added an edit about animations needing some polishing. Some of the movement just looks hokey.
This isn't a huge issue for me really, it's just something that irks me with it.
Just trying to convince you that LotRO isn't exactly a game that shoots for realism.
I know this, but there's a gap in quality between the game world and the character toons and some animations.
Back to your earlier point, you can't compare LotRO's graphics with WoW's. At least not the current version of WoW. The graphics are on another level despite weaker toon quality.
Actually I can. Neither opted for a realistic style.
There's really no rhyme or reason behind Turbine's decision to give LotRO a more animated look, and I'm not sure why so many MMORPGs are going for the more stylized, cartoon inspired look instead of a more realistic tone.
LotRO's graphics are more realistic than WoW's. They are not the same quality. I'm not really sure why you're arguing against this when there are hundreds of screenshots in the photo galleries on this site that prove this. There are some screenshots that could be mistaken for photos. Sure neither is going for hyper-realism, but I can't think of any MMOs that are except for maybe MO.
If you make the generalization wide-enough, which you are, then you can lump them into the "not hyper realistic" box. But then you'd be including pretty much every MMO to date.
Do you see the contradiction in the highlighted portion of your post?
That said,
I don't see the need to split hairs between so many different graphical styles. Regardless of whether or not LoTRO is more realistic than WoW, there's a clear trend for MMORPGs released after WoW to have a more animated graphical style. I'm not going to argue semantics here, so by saying that, I'm using cartoony and animated interchangeably.
What you are trying to do is divide the two extremes of realistic and cartoony into about fifty different subcategories so that you can make an attempt at disproving a point that you mistakenly think I made. I never once said that LotRO and WoW's graphics were of the same quality. In fact, when you say quality, that usually means we're talking about technical specifications. I simply said both were cartoony, which they are.
Well, there's no use in arguing the validity of one's opinion, but it does strike me as odd that a game which I felt was a generic WoW clone is now considered the best thing since old school UO.
Care to explain why you think it's a WoW clone?
Nowadays, all those sandbox loving carebears consider every game that has quests it in it a WoW clone, aka themepark. Funny isn't it?
The interface is exactly the same
Quest mechanics are the same
Crafting is largely the same
Both of cartoony art styles
About the only differences I can think of lie in the fact that LotRO has trait grinding (...yay...), not much of an endgame, zero PvP, and a slow paced combat system, yet people fawn over this game because it has such a great community and amazing draw distance. If LotRO is worth it to you, enjoy. It simply wasn't for me.
Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P, I found the art style to be horribly generic outside of a few of the elvish areas, and I struggled to think of anything I was doing in LotRO that was different or better than what I would be doing in WoW. As a result, I re-subbed to WoW and never looked back.
"Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P"
You would have found the same reaction in any mmo.
Well, there's no use in arguing the validity of one's opinion, but it does strike me as odd that a game which I felt was a generic WoW clone is now considered the best thing since old school UO.
Care to explain why you think it's a WoW clone?
Nowadays, all those sandbox loving carebears consider every game that has quests it in it a WoW clone, aka themepark. Funny isn't it?
The interface is exactly the same
Quest mechanics are the same
Crafting is largely the same
Both of cartoony art styles
About the only differences I can think of lie in the fact that LotRO has trait grinding (...yay...), not much of an endgame, zero PvP, and a slow paced combat system, yet people fawn over this game because it has such a great community and amazing draw distance. If LotRO is worth it to you, enjoy. It simply wasn't for me.
Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P, I found the art style to be horribly generic outside of a few of the elvish areas, and I struggled to think of anything I was doing in LotRO that was different or better than what I would be doing in WoW. As a result, I re-subbed to WoW and never looked back.
"Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P"
You would have found the same reaction in any mmo.
After an earlier suggestion to check the forums here and Landroval I did and not to be disrespectful of anyones opinion I thought that statement about the reaction to f2p was as alot of what was said a bit of an overraction, as you stated Sgt. what mmorpg goes through changes where some of the playerbase doesn't go totally ape sh!t over it?
In general I found the reaction to be much more of a wait and see and haven't noticed many if any who have had a problem with the game post f2p launch.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I think people on these forums get hung up on labels like "cartoony" "wow-clone" and others in the same vein. What you guys should actually be talking about is the graphical "charm" or intensity of the artwork. All graphics at this point in games are not really "realistic". The raytraced graphics engines aren't fast enough for "realistic" rendering yet so all this back and forth bickering is really useless. It's obvious that neither wow or LotrO wanted to approximate realism but both wanted to create a world with charisma and charm. I think both have done that wonderfully. I would say that the terrain and background artwork in LortO is some of the best I have ever seen in any MMO. They did a fantastic job balancing performance with viewdistance. It really is a hard engine to beat. The models however blocky they appear do tend to be fun to watch and have a certain amount of charm and presence that even games with models several times more dense don't capture. I hope this game takes off like it deserves and gets the development and attention from fans that makes both good business and good fun. *fingers crossed!
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
The example LotRO pic you used has extreme, night-time lighting. Plus it looks like it's oversaturated. There are many, many other screenshots that use more realistic and less-cartoony lighting. Plus your example highlighted one weak point of the game, imo: character models. The game world itself is awesome. The character models lag behind quite a bit.
Why? Because they look animated?
The model detail. Compared to the game world, they look too simplistic. Not all models look too simple, but player toons generally feel that way to me.
Because the game was aiming for a more stylistic approach with its graphics instead of hyper realism.
I don't buy that excuse. The toons should match the game world better. They don't need to be hyper-realistic. The game world itself isn't despite being visually stunning. Also, I added an edit about animations needing some polishing. Some of the movement just looks hokey.
This isn't a huge issue for me really, it's just something that irks me with it.
Just trying to convince you that LotRO isn't exactly a game that shoots for realism.
I know this, but there's a gap in quality between the game world and the character toons and some animations.
Back to your earlier point, you can't compare LotRO's graphics with WoW's. At least not the current version of WoW. The graphics are on another level despite weaker toon quality.
Actually I can. Neither opted for a realistic style.
There's really no rhyme or reason behind Turbine's decision to give LotRO a more animated look, and I'm not sure why so many MMORPGs are going for the more stylized, cartoon inspired look instead of a more realistic tone.
LotRO's graphics are more realistic than WoW's. They are not the same quality. I'm not really sure why you're arguing against this when there are hundreds of screenshots in the photo galleries on this site that prove this. There are some screenshots that could be mistaken for photos. Sure neither is going for hyper-realism, but I can't think of any MMOs that are except for maybe MO.
If you make the generalization wide-enough, which you are, then you can lump them into the "not hyper realistic" box. But then you'd be including pretty much every MMO to date.
Do you see the contradiction in the highlighted portion of your post?
That said,
I don't see the need to split hairs between so many different graphical styles. Regardless of whether or not LoTRO is more realistic than WoW, there's a clear trend for MMORPGs released after WoW to have a more animated graphical style. I'm not going to argue semantics here, so by saying that, I'm using cartoony and animated interchangeably.
What you are trying to do is divide the two extremes of realistic and cartoony into about fifty different subcategories so that you can make an attempt at disproving a point that you mistakenly think I made. I never once said that LotRO and WoW's graphics were of the same quality. In fact, when you say quality, that usually means we're talking about technical specifications. I simply said both were cartoony, which they are.
I do not see the contradiction. There ARE some screenshots that could be mistaken for HDR photos.
You are ignoring the latter part of my post. I am not trying to split hairs or split it into 50 different subcategories. You are in flat out denial imo. I'm saying you can't compare the two quality-wise. That's 2 levels. Not 50.
Here are a couple of examples from the galleries on this site that are MUCH better than your example:
Bigger vistas. More realistic colors. More realistic flora and fauna. More realistic sky.
Same as above + more realistic water and reflections.
Trees are the weak point in this shot, but the vista, sky, water and lighting are all much more realistic than pretty much anything in WoW.
WoW's ramping up the quality of their graphics which is good. They're adding better lighting, shadows, sharper textures, etc. But they're still more cartoony than LotRO. Rounded, cartoony landscapes. Over-saturated, brighter colors. Much smaller landscape vistas and view distances.
Like I said before, if you go broad enough with your generalization, which you are, then all MMOs fall into your definition of "cartoony".
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
The example LotRO pic you used has extreme, night-time lighting. Plus it looks like it's oversaturated. There are many, many other screenshots that use more realistic and less-cartoony lighting. Plus your example highlighted one weak point of the game, imo: character models. The game world itself is awesome. The character models lag behind quite a bit.
Why? Because they look animated?
The model detail. Compared to the game world, they look too simplistic. Not all models look too simple, but player toons generally feel that way to me.
Because the game was aiming for a more stylistic approach with its graphics instead of hyper realism.
I don't buy that excuse. The toons should match the game world better. They don't need to be hyper-realistic. The game world itself isn't despite being visually stunning. Also, I added an edit about animations needing some polishing. Some of the movement just looks hokey.
This isn't a huge issue for me really, it's just something that irks me with it.
Just trying to convince you that LotRO isn't exactly a game that shoots for realism.
I know this, but there's a gap in quality between the game world and the character toons and some animations.
Back to your earlier point, you can't compare LotRO's graphics with WoW's. At least not the current version of WoW. The graphics are on another level despite weaker toon quality.
Actually I can. Neither opted for a realistic style.
There's really no rhyme or reason behind Turbine's decision to give LotRO a more animated look, and I'm not sure why so many MMORPGs are going for the more stylized, cartoon inspired look instead of a more realistic tone.
LotRO's graphics are more realistic than WoW's. They are not the same quality. I'm not really sure why you're arguing against this when there are hundreds of screenshots in the photo galleries on this site that prove this. There are some screenshots that could be mistaken for photos. Sure neither is going for hyper-realism, but I can't think of any MMOs that are except for maybe MO.
If you make the generalization wide-enough, which you are, then you can lump them into the "not hyper realistic" box. But then you'd be including pretty much every MMO to date.
Do you see the contradiction in the highlighted portion of your post?
That said,
I don't see the need to split hairs between so many different graphical styles. Regardless of whether or not LoTRO is more realistic than WoW, there's a clear trend for MMORPGs released after WoW to have a more animated graphical style. I'm not going to argue semantics here, so by saying that, I'm using cartoony and animated interchangeably.
What you are trying to do is divide the two extremes of realistic and cartoony into about fifty different subcategories so that you can make an attempt at disproving a point that you mistakenly think I made. I never once said that LotRO and WoW's graphics were of the same quality. In fact, when you say quality, that usually means we're talking about technical specifications. I simply said both were cartoony, which they are.
I do not see the contradiction. There ARE some screenshots that could be mistaken for HDR photos.
How can a screenshot not represent hyper realism yet be mistaken for a doctored photograph?
You are ignoring the latter part of my post. I am not trying to split hairs or split it into 50 different subcategories. You are in flat out denial imo. I'm saying you can't compare the two quality-wise. That's 2 levels. Not 50.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just trying to keep things simple. You're working yourself into a fit trying to prove to me that LotRO looks better which means you're spinning your wheels for no reason. See below:
Here are a couple of examples from the galleries on this site that are MUCH better than your example:
Still looks animated.
Trees are the weak point in this shot, but the vista, sky, water and lighting are all much more realistic than pretty much anything in WoW.
Which game looks better is not the point. Perhaps one reason you love LotRO so much is because you, for some reason, think that more realistic graphics equals better graphics which is not the case. For example, I can show you a picture of Silvermoon which I think is far more impressive looking than LotRO's Bree.
WoW's ramping up the quality of their graphics which is good. They're adding better lighting, shadows, sharper textures, etc. But they're still more cartoony than LotRO. Rounded, cartoony landscapes. Over-saturated, brighter colors. Much smaller landscape vistas and view distances.
I don't which one is "more" cartoony, and I never have. I simply said both games favor a more stylistic approach over flat our realism.
Like I said before, if you go broad enough with your generalization, which you are, then all MMOs fall into your definition of "cartoony".
Not true. I can't say that I feel as if Darkfall, Mortal Online, SWG, EQ, GW2, EQ2, APB, Crimecraft, Istaria, FFXIV, Vanguard, RIFT, AoC, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Lineage II, and AC among other games have anything that would resemble an "animated style" or "cartoony graphics."
WoW, WAR, LotRO, SW:TOR, and STO on the other hand, all I have what I consider to be a cartoony style.
I do not see the contradiction. There ARE some screenshots that could be mistaken for HDR photos.
How can a screenshot not represent hyper realism yet be mistaken for a doctored photograph?
You are ignoring the latter part of my post. I am not trying to split hairs or split it into 50 different subcategories. You are in flat out denial imo. I'm saying you can't compare the two quality-wise. That's 2 levels. Not 50.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just trying to keep things simple. You're working yourself into a fit trying to prove to me that LotRO looks better which means you're spinning your wheels for no reason. See below:
Here are a couple of examples from the galleries on this site that are MUCH better than your example:
Still looks animated.
Trees are the weak point in this shot, but the vista, sky, water and lighting are all much more realistic than pretty much anything in WoW.
Which game looks better is not the point. Perhaps one reason you love LotRO so much is because you, for some reason, think that more realistic graphics equals better graphics which is not the case. For example, I can show you a picture of Silvermoon which I think is far more impressive looking than LotRO's Bree.
WoW's ramping up the quality of their graphics which is good. They're adding better lighting, shadows, sharper textures, etc. But they're still more cartoony than LotRO. Rounded, cartoony landscapes. Over-saturated, brighter colors. Much smaller landscape vistas and view distances.
I don't which one is "more" cartoony, and I never have. I simply said both games favor a more stylistic approach over flat our realism.
Like I said before, if you go broad enough with your generalization, which you are, then all MMOs fall into your definition of "cartoony".
Not true. I can't say that I feel as if Darkfall, Mortal Online, SWG, EQ, GW2, EQ2, APB, Crimecraft, Istaria, FFXIV, Vanguard, RIFT, AoC, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Lineage II, and AC among other games have anything that would resemble an "animated style" or "cartoony graphics."
WoW, WAR, LotRO, SW:TOR, and STO on the other hand, all I have what I consider to be a cartoony style.
HDR photos exaggerate highlights and shadows and to some extent colors. There are plenty of screens, not even from LotRO, but from other MMOs like AoC, that could be mistaken for HDR photos.
I think we have two definitions of hyper realism. For me it means mega detailed to the point of being too detailed. Too realistic. Like Blu-Ray for example. What is your definition?
Your own example of a game you would consider to not have cartoony graphics looks almost exactly like the examples I used from LotRO. Which game is that by the way? AoC? Console game?
I'm going to disagree that games like VG and EQ2 don't have cartoony graphics. In fact, I'd say those two are more WoW-like than LotRO, especially EQ2. VG has great scenery, but very cartoony characters. I will agree that AoC, MO, APB and others are more realistic and not cartoony. People compare AoC and LotRO graphics-wise all the time, so I'm not sure why you're trying to say one is cartoony and one isn't.
Your original point is that LotRO is a WoW-clone because, for one, it has cartoony graphics. I'm simply pointing out that the graphics are not comparable, quality or style-wise. Your other points for labeling LotRO a WoW-clone also pretty much encapsulate most themepark games. LotRO is not a WoW-clone. It shares themepark ideas and functionality as do a ton of other MMOs including AoC, SWG, EQ, EQ2, and VG.
Besides, this whole stupid debate boils down to opinions and semantics. Clearly your definition of "cartoony" is much more broad than mine.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Glad you're enjoying it. No matter how many times I leave to try out other games I always end up coming back. Far as PvE goes it is simply one of the best on the market even now far as I'm concerned.
I think the community has a lot to do with me coming back to this game so much as well.
I agree with what an earlier poster said. I hope this revenue stream increase keeps up and that it means they will start increasing their development, updates, and patches for this game.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Bigger vistas. More realistic colors. More realistic flora and fauna. More realistic sky.
Same as above + more realistic water and reflections.
Trees are the weak point in this shot, but the vista, sky, water and lighting are all much more realistic than pretty much anything in WoW.
WoW's ramping up the quality of their graphics which is good. They're adding better lighting, shadows, sharper textures, etc. But they're still more cartoony than LotRO. Rounded, cartoony landscapes. Over-saturated, brighter colors. Much smaller landscape vistas and view distances.
Like I said before, if you go broad enough with your generalization, which you are, then all MMOs fall into your definition of "cartoony".
This is what I meant by "Charm". Most of the game has vantages like this and the encounters are all interwoven into it that makes it more immersive than 90% of other MMO's.
What's nice about it is that it doesn't resort to repeating the same landmarks and houses etc. every 15 feet to make it happen. *stares blankly at FF14. It actually makes a person want to see what's around the next bend.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I think LotRO is a great example of a WoW clone and I don't like that LotRO went F2P.
Does that make me a xenophobic bastard that has no perspective?
No, but it means you might not have read my posts clearly enough.
I meant to respond to this sentiment when I said that I thought LotRO was a WoW clone:
Nowadays, all those sandbox loving carebears consider every game that has quests it in it a WoW clone, aka themepark. Funny isn't it?
And I was replying directly to your post about being xenophobic that included this in it:
Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P
I had a bad reaction to F2P. I think it was a financial decision and I didn't think it was fair to the paying population (especially lifetime subscribers that thought this would never happen in a million years) to add an massload of free players. I think I just interpreted your post in a negative way. You said SO MANY. It seemed like you were lumping in pretty much all the pay players that were against F2P. After all, the community was so xenophobic that you went back to WoW.
In a more positive light, what you might have been saying is that you saw a lot of free players in game getting insulted by paying players. And you viewed THOSE paying players as being xenophobic toward free players based on that.
Comments
That example you used looks awful I don't recall my game ever looking that bad. I had everything on ultra and it never looked like that.
I don't buy that excuse. The toons should match the game world better. They don't need to be hyper-realistic. The game world itself isn't despite being visually stunning. Also, I added an edit about animations needing some polishing. Some of the movement just looks hokey.
This isn't a huge issue for me really, it's just something that irks me with it.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
I've played this one off and on and I have to agree its one of the best PVE experinces out there. What server are you on and maybe I'll roll up a guy and do a quest or two with you sometime?
Just trying to convince you that LotRO isn't exactly a game that shoots for realism.
While I've heard people talk about "recreating" that feeling they got from the first mmo they played I luckily haven't been struck by that need, I see mmorpgs as nothing more than video games and while I enjoyed my first mmorpg it didn't do more for me than playing pacman,mario bros, final fantasy,zelda, Ninja Gaiden and the list goes on, but I have to agree with any sentiment you gave about LOTRO it is a wonderful pve experience and quite honestly it has the best community I've ever encountered in an mmorpg (I wonder if the total lack of pvp has anything to do with that), and with the new f2p hybrid model I think they have moved the game in another step forward which is seemingly more and more difficult for many mmorpgs.
I can't say for certain I'll be playing LOTRO until they close the doors but I can certainly say that LOTRO will always hold a special place with me as far as what an mmorpg company can deliver and how they can energize a playerbase.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I agree that this game has fantastic PvE, and now that it went FTP, it is a deal too good to pass up. Only thing that bothers me is the lack of true PvP. I tried MP but it just doesn't do it for me. Regardless, I am having a blast and plan to stay awhile.
On a side-note, RockGod did you ever get your sound issue fixed?
95% of all percentages quoted on the internet are made up on the spot 50% of the time.
"Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P"
This entire post is opinion based so as you have already pointed out there is simply no right or wrong just how one feels while engaging in the activity (in this case playing LOTRO) but you totally lost me on the sentence I quoted from you, granted I don't visit the forums of games I play very often but I don't recall much of a reaction either way about the f2p relaunch, I only visit mmorpg for my gaming news (or my gameinformer) so maybe there were things going on LOTRO forums but there was very little debate about it here from what I recall.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I stopped reading right there. UO had a player-centric ecosystem of trades, merchandising, housing, open pvp with consequenes, etc.
I'd get bored with a vanilla pve-centric ecosystem where players don't play a central role with influencing game-play. I'd stick with EVE.
Yet nothing you mentioned actually affected the actual game play of UO. Sorry but making a player run a maze of abandoned houses and ships to get to a monster is not affecting gameplay.
It all affected the game-play of UO. It was a player-centric ecosystem. Your deflection is, well, wrong. So, go ahead and play a pve-centric single-player-esque whack-a-mole LOTRO where your interaction is against predictable coded mobs that offer absolutley no community or massively-multiplayer value, in a supposed massively-multiplayer game. I was just saying....that's all.
Actually, what it sounds like you are saying is that your idea of what MMO's should be is the only way a true MMO would work. Everyone else is doing it wrong.
Glad to hear you are having fun in LOTRO OP. I went back myself and have found the game to be greatly improved from what I remember at launch. I plan on taking this new character through the story again just to see the changes and enjoy the ride. It is a good game for what it is.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Heh yeah, you should do some forum digging here and on the official LoTRO boards -- particularly the Landroval server boards.
I know this, but there's a gap in quality between the game world and the character toons and some animations.
Back to your earlier point, you can't compare LotRO's graphics with WoW's. At least not the current version of WoW. The graphics are on another level despite weaker toon quality.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Actually I can. Neither opted for a realistic style.
There's really no rhyme or reason behind Turbine's decision to give LotRO a more animated look, and I'm not sure why so many MMORPGs are going for the more stylized, cartoon inspired look instead of a more realistic tone.
LotRO's graphics are more realistic than WoW's. They are not the same quality. I'm not really sure why you're arguing against this when there are hundreds of screenshots in the photo galleries on this site that prove this. There are some screenshots that could be mistaken for photos. Sure neither is going for hyper-realism, but I can't think of any MMOs that are except for maybe MO.
If you make the generalization wide-enough, which you are, then you can lump them into the "not hyper realistic" box. But then you'd be including pretty much every MMO to date.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
I think you made a decent point in that for some to compare LOTRO graphical quality to that of WOW is an insult but it really as you stated depends on the "levels" people are willing to acknowledge that exist in everything, no neither game is going for hyper realism but in acting upon obvious observations I think it's fairly easy to say that they aren't that close either.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Do you see the contradiction in the highlighted portion of your post?
That said,
I don't see the need to split hairs between so many different graphical styles. Regardless of whether or not LoTRO is more realistic than WoW, there's a clear trend for MMORPGs released after WoW to have a more animated graphical style. I'm not going to argue semantics here, so by saying that, I'm using cartoony and animated interchangeably.
What you are trying to do is divide the two extremes of realistic and cartoony into about fifty different subcategories so that you can make an attempt at disproving a point that you mistakenly think I made. I never once said that LotRO and WoW's graphics were of the same quality. In fact, when you say quality, that usually means we're talking about technical specifications. I simply said both were cartoony, which they are.
You would have found the same reaction in any mmo.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
I think LotRO is a great example of a WoW clone and I don't like that LotRO went F2P.
Does that make me a xenophobic bastard that has no perspective?
After an earlier suggestion to check the forums here and Landroval I did and not to be disrespectful of anyones opinion I thought that statement about the reaction to f2p was as alot of what was said a bit of an overraction, as you stated Sgt. what mmorpg goes through changes where some of the playerbase doesn't go totally ape sh!t over it?
In general I found the reaction to be much more of a wait and see and haven't noticed many if any who have had a problem with the game post f2p launch.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I think people on these forums get hung up on labels like "cartoony" "wow-clone" and others in the same vein. What you guys should actually be talking about is the graphical "charm" or intensity of the artwork. All graphics at this point in games are not really "realistic". The raytraced graphics engines aren't fast enough for "realistic" rendering yet so all this back and forth bickering is really useless. It's obvious that neither wow or LotrO wanted to approximate realism but both wanted to create a world with charisma and charm. I think both have done that wonderfully. I would say that the terrain and background artwork in LortO is some of the best I have ever seen in any MMO. They did a fantastic job balancing performance with viewdistance. It really is a hard engine to beat. The models however blocky they appear do tend to be fun to watch and have a certain amount of charm and presence that even games with models several times more dense don't capture. I hope this game takes off like it deserves and gets the development and attention from fans that makes both good business and good fun. *fingers crossed!
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I do not see the contradiction. There ARE some screenshots that could be mistaken for HDR photos.
You are ignoring the latter part of my post. I am not trying to split hairs or split it into 50 different subcategories. You are in flat out denial imo. I'm saying you can't compare the two quality-wise. That's 2 levels. Not 50.
Here are a couple of examples from the galleries on this site that are MUCH better than your example:
Bigger vistas. More realistic colors. More realistic flora and fauna. More realistic sky.
Same as above + more realistic water and reflections.
Trees are the weak point in this shot, but the vista, sky, water and lighting are all much more realistic than pretty much anything in WoW.
WoW's ramping up the quality of their graphics which is good. They're adding better lighting, shadows, sharper textures, etc. But they're still more cartoony than LotRO. Rounded, cartoony landscapes. Over-saturated, brighter colors. Much smaller landscape vistas and view distances.
Like I said before, if you go broad enough with your generalization, which you are, then all MMOs fall into your definition of "cartoony".
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
No, but it means you might not have read my posts clearly enough.
HDR photos exaggerate highlights and shadows and to some extent colors. There are plenty of screens, not even from LotRO, but from other MMOs like AoC, that could be mistaken for HDR photos.
I think we have two definitions of hyper realism. For me it means mega detailed to the point of being too detailed. Too realistic. Like Blu-Ray for example. What is your definition?
Your own example of a game you would consider to not have cartoony graphics looks almost exactly like the examples I used from LotRO. Which game is that by the way? AoC? Console game?
I'm going to disagree that games like VG and EQ2 don't have cartoony graphics. In fact, I'd say those two are more WoW-like than LotRO, especially EQ2. VG has great scenery, but very cartoony characters. I will agree that AoC, MO, APB and others are more realistic and not cartoony. People compare AoC and LotRO graphics-wise all the time, so I'm not sure why you're trying to say one is cartoony and one isn't.
Your original point is that LotRO is a WoW-clone because, for one, it has cartoony graphics. I'm simply pointing out that the graphics are not comparable, quality or style-wise. Your other points for labeling LotRO a WoW-clone also pretty much encapsulate most themepark games. LotRO is not a WoW-clone. It shares themepark ideas and functionality as do a ton of other MMOs including AoC, SWG, EQ, EQ2, and VG.
Besides, this whole stupid debate boils down to opinions and semantics. Clearly your definition of "cartoony" is much more broad than mine.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Glad you're enjoying it. No matter how many times I leave to try out other games I always end up coming back. Far as PvE goes it is simply one of the best on the market even now far as I'm concerned.
I think the community has a lot to do with me coming back to this game so much as well.
I agree with what an earlier poster said. I hope this revenue stream increase keeps up and that it means they will start increasing their development, updates, and patches for this game.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
This is what I meant by "Charm". Most of the game has vantages like this and the encounters are all interwoven into it that makes it more immersive than 90% of other MMO's.
What's nice about it is that it doesn't resort to repeating the same landmarks and houses etc. every 15 feet to make it happen. *stares blankly at FF14. It actually makes a person want to see what's around the next bend.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I meant to respond to this sentiment when I said that I thought LotRO was a WoW clone:
Nowadays, all those sandbox loving carebears consider every game that has quests it in it a WoW clone, aka themepark. Funny isn't it?
And I was replying directly to your post about being xenophobic that included this in it:
Personally, the community of this game was ruined for me once I saw how laughably xenophobic so many of them were based on their reactions of LotRO going F2P
I had a bad reaction to F2P. I think it was a financial decision and I didn't think it was fair to the paying population (especially lifetime subscribers that thought this would never happen in a million years) to add an massload of free players. I think I just interpreted your post in a negative way. You said SO MANY. It seemed like you were lumping in pretty much all the pay players that were against F2P. After all, the community was so xenophobic that you went back to WoW.
In a more positive light, what you might have been saying is that you saw a lot of free players in game getting insulted by paying players. And you viewed THOSE paying players as being xenophobic toward free players based on that.