guild wars 2 has already failed since they said there will be no dedicated healing class which means pretty much the combat will be easy and pretty much like playing a console game but good luck wiht that. You get what u pay for.
guild wars 2 has already failed since they said there will be no dedicated healing class which means pretty much the combat will be easy and pretty much like playing a console game but good luck wiht that. You get what u pay for.
I know it's tough to imagine anything that deviates from the standard pattern set down by WoW. A lot of people have problems with that. So it's a good thing that myopic fools like yourself and the rest of your flat-earth ilk aren't working at ArenaNet, or we'd be getting th same formulaic drivel that everyone else wants to put out. The beaten path is also a safe path, eh? Why deviate from it when you can count on the multiudes to flock to what's familar?
guild wars 2 has already failed since they said there will be no dedicated healing class which means pretty much the combat will be easy and pretty much like playing a console game but good luck wiht that. You get what u pay for.
Actually its called skill based classes and yes its been done before and yes that what they already did in the first Guild Wars. Some of the most popular online mmorpgs are skill based. Do you know what your talking about, they want their old player base back and new players, their not making a WOW clone. Guild wars has been and forever will be about competive team based PVP, and soloable PVE content. Its not holy trinity. I know the fact that people enjoying a game thats not Progression based makes some of you lose sleep, but it happens, from time to time. Actually GW2 is putting heavy emphasis on crafting as well.
Oh I wish my "real life" friends and family played games. But they don't and they gently make fun of me for playing games.
I do have some friends from my time in Lineage 2 who will try this out so we'll see.
Personally I will definitely try the game and hopefully play to level cap. I usually have a difficult time sticking with games that are "modern" or futuristic over typcial fantasy games.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
guild wars 2 has already failed since they said there will be no dedicated healing class which means pretty much the combat will be easy and pretty much like playing a console game but good luck wiht that. You get what u pay for.
Holy Trinity combat has kept back MMO gaming for over a decade now. It's past time that abomination was put down. HT requires every fight be a boring tank and spank or have some silly gimmick, because there's nothing interesting at all about the HT mechanics themselves. Also, HT makes grouping stupidly hard. Roles are locked in and two of the three roles aren't very popular (e.g. don't appear in proportion to need). It's just plain bad design to have a system that creates grouping difficulties like that. It's a brain dead, overspecialized combat system.
There are plenty of ways to have a combat system with depth that requires teamwork without resorting to HT. Non-MMO games on consoles, computers, and tabletop have been doing it for years or decades.
When I send people over to SWTOR to check out the game they say....
"oh I get the story stuff, but how does it play, what are some of the mechanics, how is PvP what makes it different? Is crafting worth it? any good combat videos? skill info ect?"
uhhh i don't know yet, wait till launch
"Oh, ok"
they head Back to WoW and their interest just goes away.
I've tried to show people the videos on the site, lack of excitement is what follows. We all may enjoy it, but people on the outside don't know what to make of "Sith, My story"
Honestly, it's been a hard damn game to sell to my friends and family who actually play MMOs. Why? Because the info on this site is mostly lore based and makes people think the game is 4 years away.
We haven't really gotten any ground breaking info at all, almost all the updates are LORE related, or lore related mechanics. I appreciate their enthusiasm for their lore, story ect, but come on, not all of us are hardcore lore hounds, and like to know about button mashing mechanics, skills, crafting and pvp. Ask the average MMO gamer out there. I think they sold the game on Star Wars fans, and BioWare fans were already sold, but the site is so vague as to how the game plays it alludes most people on the outside. They think, Oh, it’s just another crap MMO, next.
Oh, and before you think I'm trolling. look back at my post history, I've been waiting for this game longer than most of you here.
If memory serves me correctly there wasn't a whole heap of detailed info about WoW a year before it's launch, infact it was pretty darn sketchy on alot of things abotu 6 months prior to launch.
Personally speaking your trying to sell something to friends and family that just isn't ready to be sold, wait for the release, is there some reason you need to sell the game so early on? is it really that important to you that you have to know everything there is to know about the game today? because lets be honest now, if they did tell you everything today about the game you'll be damned pissed when it goes live with a completely different setup.
Here's the thing, I'l wager that SWTOR just like every other MMO has gone through some drastic changes on it's way to making it to our PC's, from 1 month to the next things are probably getting cut or changed, how does a developer pass this kind of info on to the playerbase, they don't, they keep their mouths shut because whats the point in giving us details when they know it's not set in stone.
As it is I'm happy with whats been posted so far, 16 planets to explore, 8 classes to choose from with their various class paths to pick from later, onrails space combat, companions etc.
I'm sure that when there is something to report then Bioware will tell us, if there isn't anything to report then hence the silence, I say leave them to get on with the game, I want to get my hands on this just as much as alot of other ppl, fortunately I have enough games to occupy my time in the mean time, if you have friends and family who are also eager to play and are now getting frustrated perhaps this says more about what they are currently playing than being disappointed with SWTOR.
guild wars 2 has already failed since they said there will be no dedicated healing class which means pretty much the combat will be easy and pretty much like playing a console game but good luck wiht that. You get what u pay for.
Holy Trinity combat has kept back MMO gaming for over a decade now. It's past time that abomination was put down. HT requires every fight be a boring tank and spank or have some silly gimmick, because there's nothing interesting at all about the HT mechanics themselves. Also, HT makes grouping stupidly hard. Roles are locked in and two of the three roles aren't very popular (e.g. don't appear in proportion to need). It's just plain bad design to have a system that creates grouping difficulties like that. It's a brain dead, overspecialized combat system.
There are plenty of ways to have a combat system with depth that requires teamwork without resorting to HT. Non-MMO games on consoles, computers, and tabletop have been doing it for years or decades.
They sure have been doing it for years in single player games and consoles, I believe they call it health pots, and lots of them .
guild wars 2 has already failed since they said there will be no dedicated healing class which means pretty much the combat will be easy and pretty much like playing a console game but good luck wiht that. You get what u pay for.
Holy Trinity combat has kept back MMO gaming for over a decade now. It's past time that abomination was put down. HT requires every fight be a boring tank and spank or have some silly gimmick, because there's nothing interesting at all about the HT mechanics themselves. Also, HT makes grouping stupidly hard. Roles are locked in and two of the three roles aren't very popular (e.g. don't appear in proportion to need). It's just plain bad design to have a system that creates grouping difficulties like that. It's a brain dead, overspecialized combat system.
There are plenty of ways to have a combat system with depth that requires teamwork without resorting to HT. Non-MMO games on consoles, computers, and tabletop have been doing it for years or decades.
They sure have been doing it for years in single player games and consoles, I believe they call it health pots, and lots of them .
I'm talking about group-based games on tables, on computers, and consoles. How the healing is done simply doesn't MATTER if the combat is good, if it requires coordination, if it is deep, etc. That said, there are many games (D&D is one of them), that have many forms of healing.
Heck, dedicated healers don't make the combat have any depth to it, as Holy Trinity combat shows again and again.
MY GF is seemingly more excited about TOR than I am, and she doesn't even play MMO's. She's really not a big SW fan either. She's into games with dialogue. She loves anything Bioware except Mass Effect simply because she doesn't like shooting mechanics (can't aim).
As for younger people. I have two younger brothers, one 15 one 13. The 15 year old doesn't like anything Star Wars all that much any more (did when he was younger). Doesn't play online games, and he has never touched an MMO. Then again he's one of those "cool kids". On the other hand the 13 year old. Is very much into Star wars and online gaming. He prefers the OG trilogy but that's because of me (:). He'll probably play TOR.
As for my friends, none of them play MMO's really. They like ps3's and xbox 360's... they use their PC's as social gateways for the most part. I wouldn't even attempt to sell them on TOR as they'd just laugh at me, lol, that's how most tuff guy metal heads are though.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
*raises eyebrow* I must admit the skepticism here surprises me. I mean, I am critical towards TOR artistically, thinking for the more old skool MMO gamer it seems to have little to offer. But I always felt sure it would appeal to masses, for the Star Wars part and Bioware.
When I read this... it kinda makes me wonder of they REALLY can break even with their investment. Hm, I am really over the fence if this is a huge success (in mere financial terms) or a catastrophe. I wonder if this is representative, what I read here. If so, Bioware has all right to get into panick mode now. Hm...
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
My family consists of old people who think video games are the bane of all life (some are evil enough to like that idea while others don't ) and my friends do not play MMO's.
Well, two of them do, but one guy was kind of a bigshot in Perfect World (yeah lol) and he just quit online games and the other dude refuses to pay subscription fees.
No playing with RL friends or family for me at this point.
Btw. while gaming is steadily becoming more mainstream, it is still a ways off from actually hitting that where I live. A lot of people still look down on gaming for some reason; mmo gaming is a step further and something which is completely out of the ordinary.
Almost none of the people who game actually remember the names of the companies that make those games (maybe a rare exception being Blizzard) and almost none of them are prepared to pay a monthly fee for a game.
Even in the case of WoW, it was something which was 'not talked about'; even if a lot of the cool kids actually did play it.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
My family consists of old people who think video games are the bane of all life (some are evil enough to like that idea while others don't ) and my friends do not play MMO's.
Well, two of them do, but one guy was kind of a bigshot in Perfect World (yeah lol) and he just quit online games and the other dude refuses to pay subscription fees.
No playing with RL friends or family for me at this point.
Btw. while gaming is steadily becoming more mainstream, it is still a ways off from actually hitting that where I live. A lot of people still look down on gaming for some reason; mmo gaming is a step further and something which is completely out of the ordinary.
Almost none of the people who game actually remember the names of the companies that make those games (maybe a rare exception being Blizzard) and almost none of them are prepared to pay a monthly fee for a game.
Even in the case of WoW, it was something which was 'not talked about'; even if a lot of the cool kids actually did play it.
Gamers just don't stick out in society, MMO gamers even more so. Most people's idea of gaming is Xbox live and CoD for some reason. A lot of people I meet who are Star Wars fans don't care about games, or have never played MMOs, and are not interested in TOR. I remember browsing the site for our local 501st back around the time SWG launched. Someone made a thread asking if anyone was playing SWG, out of all their members like 5 people replied, a few thought it looked cool, but were not willing to pay to play a game monthly, another couple couldn't get it to run on their PCs and just decided not to bother with it. As excited as I am about it, I'm not seeing this WoW killer status some people here seem to be seeing or a game that pulls millions of Star Wars fans into it.
My family consists of old people who think video games are the bane of all life (some are evil enough to like that idea while others don't ) and my friends do not play MMO's.
Well, two of them do, but one guy was kind of a bigshot in Perfect World (yeah lol) and he just quit online games and the other dude refuses to pay subscription fees.
No playing with RL friends or family for me at this point.
Btw. while gaming is steadily becoming more mainstream, it is still a ways off from actually hitting that where I live. A lot of people still look down on gaming for some reason; mmo gaming is a step further and something which is completely out of the ordinary.
Almost none of the people who game actually remember the names of the companies that make those games (maybe a rare exception being Blizzard) and almost none of them are prepared to pay a monthly fee for a game.
Even in the case of WoW, it was something which was 'not talked about'; even if a lot of the cool kids actually did play it.
Gamers just don't stick out in society, MMO gamers even more so. Most people's idea of gaming is Xbox live and CoD for some reason. A lot of people I meet who are Star Wars fans don't care about games, or have never played MMOs, and are not interested in TOR. I remember browsing the site for our local 501st back around the time SWG launched. Someone made a thread asking if anyone was playing SWG, out of all their members like 5 people replied, a few thought it looked cool, but were not willing to pay to play a game monthly, another couple couldn't get it to run on their PCs and just decided not to bother with it. As excited as I am about it, I'm not seeing this WoW killer status some people here seem to be seeing or a game that pulls millions of Star Wars fans into it.
I agree with you with what you said about gamers. We are a sub culture and Im proud of that lol. As far as the number of players, who really knows? No one has any idea whether this will have 100K or 5M. It is impossible to tell at this point.
guild wars 2 has already failed since they said there will be no dedicated healing class which means pretty much the combat will be easy and pretty much like playing a console game but good luck wiht that. You get what u pay for.
Holy Trinity combat has kept back MMO gaming for over a decade now. It's past time that abomination was put down. HT requires every fight be a boring tank and spank or have some silly gimmick, because there's nothing interesting at all about the HT mechanics themselves. Also, HT makes grouping stupidly hard. Roles are locked in and two of the three roles aren't very popular (e.g. don't appear in proportion to need). It's just plain bad design to have a system that creates grouping difficulties like that. It's a brain dead, overspecialized combat system.
There are plenty of ways to have a combat system with depth that requires teamwork without resorting to HT. Non-MMO games on consoles, computers, and tabletop have been doing it for years or decades.
*raises eyebrow* I must admit the skepticism here surprises me. I mean, I am critical towards TOR artistically, thinking for the more old skool MMO gamer it seems to have little to offer. But I always felt sure it would appeal to masses, for the Star Wars part and Bioware. When I read this... it kinda makes me wonder of they REALLY can break even with their investment. Hm, I am really over the fence if this is a huge success (in mere financial terms) or a catastrophe. I wonder if this is representative, what I read here. If so, Bioware has all right to get into panick mode now. Hm...
Im not surprised at all. I think no one here expected a sandbox but. I think most people wanted it to be something different. It is simply too much like WOW. You cannot make such an obvious clone and wrap it up in a lightsaber gift wrap. Then hope and pray everyone is dumb enough to buy what they already own. I think this is why lord of the rings is FTP now. I could care less about the art in an mmorpg as long as its passable.
Things TOR is doing that will not matter.
* Voice overs, for most people this is going to be click click click click over and over again to hurry into the mission, especially on their 3rd reroll after reading the FAQ.
* Tortage mechanics, Its nice for 45 minutes and then I want out.
Things they are doing that will matter.
* Holy Trinity class system, bad class balance, huge shifts between republic and sith factions for flavor of the month dps.
* Gear based progression, makes the above problems worse. Also every patch must be accompanied by gear with a huge percentage increase in dps throwing any balacing from the previous months out the window.
* Three tiered talent trees, which conviniently are shaped almost just like the new Cataclysm talent trees. You even have the same linear forced to take one tree approach.
* Companions or pets, will pretty much turn everyone into some kind of solo hunter type of player. Even the Sith and Jedi will buy a gun and try to put a stun gun on little T3. Either that or the other half will have heal bots or play it like a Warlock. Not a good feeling about this one. Leveling will be easy sure. But the rest of the game?
* Space on rails, they should have at least had planetary orbit style travel. For some type of non linear space battles. You didn't have to go the extreme of EVE but come on. Even if the game is good that was a PR disaster.
Things no one has any real idea about
* PVP is it even in the game, if so is it going to be terrible?
* What kind of raids, for people that hate raiding just how much of a grind will it be. For people that love it will it be worth it?
* Seamless worlds or instance portals to cities, are we talking about worlds with explorable areas the size of a few cities in WOW?
* Fluff, non grindy daily activities, Pazzak, racing, ways to chill.
* Professions.
I have a feeling the things that will matter the most in TOR are the things that separate it from the existing games that are similar to it mechanically. If it is just another clone I dont want to waste my time. I really need to see something not neccessarily innovative just something to separate it from the herd. Voice overs just dont get it done.
Im not surprised at all. I think no one here expected a sandbox but.
I think most people wanted it to be something different. It is simply too much like WOW. You cannot make such an obvious clone and wrap it up in a lightsaber gift wrap. Then hope and pray everyone is dumb enough to buy what they already own. I think this is why lord of the rings is FTP now. I could care less about the art in an mmorpg as long as its passable.
Things TOR is doing that will not matter.
This is a lot of speculation, which isn't wrong, but it's hard to say right now how things will turn out. To provide different arguments: WoW copied a lot of the same mechanisms that EQ had, up to the point that people were talking about WoW being an 'EQ clone', still a large mass of EQ gamers jumped ship. A number of people don't need something to be highly innovative and different, sometimes they just want something new and different enough. That applies to a lot of things in life, but it applies as well if you've been playing the exact same game for years and years. "Things TOR is doing that will not matter" is ofc pure opinion, this one is yours, but so many gamers, so many different preferences and tastes. I'll show my own below
* Voice overs, for most people this is going to be click click click click over and over again to hurry into the mission, especially on their 3rd reroll after reading the FAQ.
If you listen to the comments from a lot of people, then you'll notice that a lot of people didn't click quest text or VO away because they don't like it, but because it's bland or that they've seen it a number of times already. Not that many gamers click VO away in all games including single player games.
* Tortage mechanics, Its nice for 45 minutes and then I want out.
You maybe and people like you, a lot of people are not like that up to the point that there was a lot of complaints that the rest of the game wasn't like Tortage.
Things they are doing that will matter.
* Holy Trinity class system, bad class balance, huge shifts between republic and sith factions for flavor of the month dps. While I'm not a fan of Holy Trinity system, when it comes to PvP most of the non-trinity based classes had and have the same problems of class balancing and flavor of the months, sometimes even more with the larger variety of options.
* Three tiered talent trees, which conviniently are shaped almost just like the new Cataclysm talent trees. You even have the same linear forced to take one tree approach. Wrong. It is more constructed like AoC's talent trees, which personally I found alright in the flexibility of options it gave you.
* Companions or pets, will pretty much turn everyone into some kind of solo hunter type of player. Even the Sith and Jedi will buy a gun and try to put a stun gun on little T3. Either that or the other half will have heal bots or play it like a Warlock.
Not a good feeling about this one. Leveling will be easy sure. But the rest of the game? Mmm... I don't know, it all depends how they tweak things. The dev statements so far indicated that encounters are geared towards you using the Companion, without it you'll have a tougher time. Personally I like the flexibility it could bring to team setups, not being dependent upon 1 specific class to show up. But this too depends how good they manage to finetune it.
* Space on rails, they should have at least had planetary orbit style travel. For some type of non linear space battles. You didn't have to go the extreme of EVE but come on. Even if the game is good that was a PR disaster.
Yeah, I agree, this could and should be better. It won't ruin my gameplay experience but it would be disappointing if they don't do more with space in their future plans
@ FreddyNoNose: nice link btw, thanks, was a good read.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Wrong. It is more constructed like AoC's talent trees, which personally I found alright in the flexibility of options it gave you.
Ok this is the only part is disagree on. Looks to me that they have 19 talents in the tree. Per class tree. Then there is little deviation until tier 5. Also it looks like Two not 3 trees per advanced class, with no indication you can mix and match. So I can only guess at this point but any real differance will be at the end tree and hybrid off specs dont look possible. The AOC trees were three tiered and Built from the ground up to be complementory to hybrids or to each other if you will, usually tree one is something like 28 talents, next tree 25 talents next tree 18 talents or something like that. But it is very interchangable even more so than BC WOW hybrids or right in there with it.
Now the 19 talents are not bad, thats no little number considering your first tree is probably also 19 talents or so. But once you choose a path or a tree leading to another tree I dont see any divergance from tree to tree more specifically No horizontal interchanges from tree to tree. They seem to move vertical in a clear path and to a clear Pretige class.
I'm not even sold on this game yet. I've grown a habit of waiting till about 2 months after the release of an MMO and read the reviews and opinions of others before I decide to buy it. (opinions of others being those who I know and give a fair assessment regardless of who it was created by or what fantasy world the story is made up of)
What, are mmos the virtual equivalent of Amway and Avon now?
I don't vouch for family and friends for jobs just in case their work ethic sucks and could make me look bad, and I don't vouch for games to friends and family for the same reason. If the game is what they're looking for, they'll find it and play it on their own.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Wrong. It is more constructed like AoC's talent trees, which personally I found alright in the flexibility of options it gave you.
Ok this is the only part is disagree on. Looks to me that they have 19 talents in the tree. Per class tree. Then there is little deviation until tier 5. Also it looks like Two not 3 trees per advanced class, with no indication you can mix and match. So I can only guess at this point but any real differance will be at the end tree and hybrid off specs dont look possible. The AOC trees were three tiered and Built from the ground up to be complementory to hybrids or to each other if you will, usually tree one is something like 28 talents, next tree 25 talents next tree 18 talents or something like that. But it is very interchangable even more so than BC WOW hybrids or right in there with it.
Now the 19 talents are not bad, thats no little number considering your first tree is probably also 19 talents or so. But once you choose a path or a tree leading to another tree I dont see any divergance from tree to tree more specifically No horizontal interchanges from tree to tree. They seem to move vertical in a clear path and to a clear Pretige class.
First of all, it's important to read the accompanying text when Advanced Classes are explained at this page:
'The chart above is not representative of any of the current Advanced Class Skill Sets, nor does it show exactly how many Skills you may potentially access. It is included to provide an example of how a character, in this case a Sith Warrior, may look as he progresses through one Advanced Class (note that the other Advanced Class Skill Sets are disabled and cannot be trained).'
So the looks of the talent trees and the number of Skills in them is not representative for how AC trees will look in the end, it is merely a visual example.
Next to that, what SW:TOR's trees have in common with the AoC trees is the setup of the trees, in that you have 2 specific for your AC and 1 that you share between the original class: just like a Smuggler and Scoundrel have the same Smuggler tree next to their 2 AC specific trees, that resembles how in AoC as a Ranger and Assassin you have the same Rogue feat tree next to your two class specific trees.
Another difference is that you're free to pick and choose your skills from the trees however you like, just like in AoC: in WoW you'll be restricted to choosing your tree where to pick your skills from.
So comparing talent tree systems from several MMO's, SW:TOR looks to have most in common how it was set up in AoC.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Pretty much all of my RL friends would tell me to STFU and drag me to play some recreational sport, and my family would just stare at me, so I suppose my answer is yes, it's been hard to sell my friends and family on TOR.
Comments
guild wars 2 has already failed since they said there will be no dedicated healing class which means pretty much the combat will be easy and pretty much like playing a console game but good luck wiht that. You get what u pay for.
I know it's tough to imagine anything that deviates from the standard pattern set down by WoW. A lot of people have problems with that. So it's a good thing that myopic fools like yourself and the rest of your flat-earth ilk aren't working at ArenaNet, or we'd be getting th same formulaic drivel that everyone else wants to put out. The beaten path is also a safe path, eh? Why deviate from it when you can count on the multiudes to flock to what's familar?
Good luck with that.
Actually its called skill based classes and yes its been done before and yes that what they already did in the first Guild Wars. Some of the most popular online mmorpgs are skill based. Do you know what your talking about, they want their old player base back and new players, their not making a WOW clone. Guild wars has been and forever will be about competive team based PVP, and soloable PVE content. Its not holy trinity. I know the fact that people enjoying a game thats not Progression based makes some of you lose sleep, but it happens, from time to time. Actually GW2 is putting heavy emphasis on crafting as well.
Oh I wish my "real life" friends and family played games. But they don't and they gently make fun of me for playing games.
I do have some friends from my time in Lineage 2 who will try this out so we'll see.
Personally I will definitely try the game and hopefully play to level cap. I usually have a difficult time sticking with games that are "modern" or futuristic over typcial fantasy games.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Holy Trinity combat has kept back MMO gaming for over a decade now. It's past time that abomination was put down. HT requires every fight be a boring tank and spank or have some silly gimmick, because there's nothing interesting at all about the HT mechanics themselves. Also, HT makes grouping stupidly hard. Roles are locked in and two of the three roles aren't very popular (e.g. don't appear in proportion to need). It's just plain bad design to have a system that creates grouping difficulties like that. It's a brain dead, overspecialized combat system.
There are plenty of ways to have a combat system with depth that requires teamwork without resorting to HT. Non-MMO games on consoles, computers, and tabletop have been doing it for years or decades.
It has been difficult for my friends to sell me on this game. Most of my old gaming friends are sold on this game, I am not.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
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Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
If memory serves me correctly there wasn't a whole heap of detailed info about WoW a year before it's launch, infact it was pretty darn sketchy on alot of things abotu 6 months prior to launch.
Personally speaking your trying to sell something to friends and family that just isn't ready to be sold, wait for the release, is there some reason you need to sell the game so early on? is it really that important to you that you have to know everything there is to know about the game today? because lets be honest now, if they did tell you everything today about the game you'll be damned pissed when it goes live with a completely different setup.
Here's the thing, I'l wager that SWTOR just like every other MMO has gone through some drastic changes on it's way to making it to our PC's, from 1 month to the next things are probably getting cut or changed, how does a developer pass this kind of info on to the playerbase, they don't, they keep their mouths shut because whats the point in giving us details when they know it's not set in stone.
As it is I'm happy with whats been posted so far, 16 planets to explore, 8 classes to choose from with their various class paths to pick from later, onrails space combat, companions etc.
I'm sure that when there is something to report then Bioware will tell us, if there isn't anything to report then hence the silence, I say leave them to get on with the game, I want to get my hands on this just as much as alot of other ppl, fortunately I have enough games to occupy my time in the mean time, if you have friends and family who are also eager to play and are now getting frustrated perhaps this says more about what they are currently playing than being disappointed with SWTOR.
They sure have been doing it for years in single player games and consoles, I believe they call it health pots, and lots of them
.
I'm talking about group-based games on tables, on computers, and consoles. How the healing is done simply doesn't MATTER if the combat is good, if it requires coordination, if it is deep, etc. That said, there are many games (D&D is one of them), that have many forms of healing.
Heck, dedicated healers don't make the combat have any depth to it, as Holy Trinity combat shows again and again.
MY GF is seemingly more excited about TOR than I am, and she doesn't even play MMO's. She's really not a big SW fan either. She's into games with dialogue. She loves anything Bioware except Mass Effect simply because she doesn't like shooting mechanics (can't aim).
As for younger people. I have two younger brothers, one 15 one 13. The 15 year old doesn't like anything Star Wars all that much any more (did when he was younger). Doesn't play online games, and he has never touched an MMO. Then again he's one of those "cool kids". On the other hand the 13 year old. Is very much into Star wars and online gaming. He prefers the OG trilogy but that's because of me (
:). He'll probably play TOR.
As for my friends, none of them play MMO's really. They like ps3's and xbox 360's... they use their PC's as social gateways for the most part. I wouldn't even attempt to sell them on TOR as they'd just laugh at me, lol, that's how most tuff guy metal heads are though.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
*raises eyebrow* I must admit the skepticism here surprises me. I mean, I am critical towards TOR artistically, thinking for the more old skool MMO gamer it seems to have little to offer. But I always felt sure it would appeal to masses, for the Star Wars part and Bioware.
When I read this... it kinda makes me wonder of they REALLY can break even with their investment. Hm, I am really over the fence if this is a huge success (in mere financial terms) or a catastrophe. I wonder if this is representative, what I read here. If so, Bioware has all right to get into panick mode now. Hm...
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
This.
I don't know specifics, nor do I need to at this time. What I do know has me excited though...Star Wars + Bioware.
My family consists of old people who think video games are the bane of all life (some are evil enough to like that idea while others don't
) and my friends do not play MMO's.
Well, two of them do, but one guy was kind of a bigshot in Perfect World (yeah lol) and he just quit online games and the other dude refuses to pay subscription fees.
No playing with RL friends or family for me at this point.
Btw. while gaming is steadily becoming more mainstream, it is still a ways off from actually hitting that where I live. A lot of people still look down on gaming for some reason; mmo gaming is a step further and something which is completely out of the ordinary.
Almost none of the people who game actually remember the names of the companies that make those games (maybe a rare exception being Blizzard) and almost none of them are prepared to pay a monthly fee for a game.
Even in the case of WoW, it was something which was 'not talked about'; even if a lot of the cool kids actually did play it.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Gamers just don't stick out in society, MMO gamers even more so. Most people's idea of gaming is Xbox live and CoD for some reason. A lot of people I meet who are Star Wars fans don't care about games, or have never played MMOs, and are not interested in TOR. I remember browsing the site for our local 501st back around the time SWG launched. Someone made a thread asking if anyone was playing SWG, out of all their members like 5 people replied, a few thought it looked cool, but were not willing to pay to play a game monthly, another couple couldn't get it to run on their PCs and just decided not to bother with it. As excited as I am about it, I'm not seeing this WoW killer status some people here seem to be seeing or a game that pulls millions of Star Wars fans into it.
I agree with you with what you said about gamers. We are a sub culture and Im proud of that lol. As far as the number of players, who really knows? No one has any idea whether this will have 100K or 5M. It is impossible to tell at this point.
There Is Always Hope!
http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html
Very good read. Thank you. Gave a great history of how/why it has evolved the way it has.
Im not surprised at all. I think no one here expected a sandbox but.
I think most people wanted it to be something different. It is simply too much like WOW. You cannot make such an obvious clone and wrap it up in a lightsaber gift wrap. Then hope and pray everyone is dumb enough to buy what they already own. I think this is why lord of the rings is FTP now. I could care less about the art in an mmorpg as long as its passable.
Things TOR is doing that will not matter.
* Voice overs, for most people this is going to be click click click click over and over again to hurry into the mission, especially on their 3rd reroll after reading the FAQ.
* Tortage mechanics, Its nice for 45 minutes and then I want out.
Things they are doing that will matter.
* Holy Trinity class system, bad class balance, huge shifts between republic and sith factions for flavor of the month dps.
* Gear based progression, makes the above problems worse. Also every patch must be accompanied by gear with a huge percentage increase in dps throwing any balacing from the previous months out the window.
* Three tiered talent trees, which conviniently are shaped almost just like the new Cataclysm talent trees. You even have the same linear forced to take one tree approach.
* Companions or pets, will pretty much turn everyone into some kind of solo hunter type of player. Even the Sith and Jedi will buy a gun and try to put a stun gun on little T3. Either that or the other half will have heal bots or play it like a Warlock.
Not a good feeling about this one. Leveling will be easy sure. But the rest of the game?
* Space on rails, they should have at least had planetary orbit style travel. For some type of non linear space battles. You didn't have to go the extreme of EVE but come on. Even if the game is good that was a PR disaster.
Things no one has any real idea about
* PVP is it even in the game, if so is it going to be terrible?
* What kind of raids, for people that hate raiding just how much of a grind will it be. For people that love it will it be worth it?
* Seamless worlds or instance portals to cities, are we talking about worlds with explorable areas the size of a few cities in WOW?
* Fluff, non grindy daily activities, Pazzak, racing, ways to chill.
* Professions.
I have a feeling the things that will matter the most in TOR are the things that separate it from the existing games that are similar to it mechanically. If it is just another clone I dont want to waste my time. I really need to see something not neccessarily innovative just something to separate it from the herd. Voice overs just dont get it done.
@ FreddyNoNose: nice link btw, thanks, was a good read.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
[quote]Originally posted by cyphers
Ok this is the only part is disagree on. Looks to me that they have 19 talents in the tree. Per class tree. Then there is little deviation until tier 5. Also it looks like Two not 3 trees per advanced class, with no indication you can mix and match. So I can only guess at this point but any real differance will be at the end tree and hybrid off specs dont look possible. The AOC trees were three tiered and Built from the ground up to be complementory to hybrids or to each other if you will, usually tree one is something like 28 talents, next tree 25 talents next tree 18 talents or something like that. But it is very interchangable even more so than BC WOW hybrids or right in there with it.
Now the 19 talents are not bad, thats no little number considering your first tree is probably also 19 talents or so. But once you choose a path or a tree leading to another tree I dont see any divergance from tree to tree more specifically No horizontal interchanges from tree to tree. They seem to move vertical in a clear path and to a clear Pretige class.
I'm not even sold on this game yet. I've grown a habit of waiting till about 2 months after the release of an MMO and read the reviews and opinions of others before I decide to buy it. (opinions of others being those who I know and give a fair assessment regardless of who it was created by or what fantasy world the story is made up of)
Has it been difficult getting your friends and family sold on this game?
What, are mmos the virtual equivalent of Amway and Avon now?
I don't vouch for family and friends for jobs just in case their work ethic sucks and could make me look bad, and I don't vouch for games to friends and family for the same reason. If the game is what they're looking for, they'll find it and play it on their own.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
First of all, it's important to read the accompanying text when Advanced Classes are explained at this page:
'The chart above is not representative of any of the current Advanced Class Skill Sets, nor does it show exactly how many Skills you may potentially access. It is included to provide an example of how a character, in this case a Sith Warrior, may look as he progresses through one Advanced Class (note that the other Advanced Class Skill Sets are disabled and cannot be trained).'
So the looks of the talent trees and the number of Skills in them is not representative for how AC trees will look in the end, it is merely a visual example.
Next to that, what SW:TOR's trees have in common with the AoC trees is the setup of the trees, in that you have 2 specific for your AC and 1 that you share between the original class: just like a Smuggler and Scoundrel have the same Smuggler tree next to their 2 AC specific trees, that resembles how in AoC as a Ranger and Assassin you have the same Rogue feat tree next to your two class specific trees.
Another difference is that you're free to pick and choose your skills from the trees however you like, just like in AoC: in WoW you'll be restricted to choosing your tree where to pick your skills from.
So comparing talent tree systems from several MMO's, SW:TOR looks to have most in common how it was set up in AoC.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
if we are tlaking about my friends, whom all love star wars, they were all on board when it was announced lol, same as me.
Pretty much all of my RL friends would tell me to STFU and drag me to play some recreational sport, and my family would just stare at me, so I suppose my answer is yes, it's been hard to sell my friends and family on TOR.