What about Guild Wars 2 is more community friendly than the other 100 MMORPGs? I'm not being sarcastic. I really want to know.
The idea is that they have taken away things like mob stealing and ninja looting, together with giving full XP and having scaling quest. They also have skill combos that makes it possible for a elementalist to make the rangers arrows fire-arrows and similar things.
We havn't seen that it makes the community better yet however but they are trying at least. We wont truly know until the community actually formed and that usually take something like 6 months after launch.
I also like the idea that you don't have to group in GW2 but can jump in and help some folks out with healing, rezzing or other stuff without any problems. But as I said we wont know the reality before after launch.
I like their ideas towards employing game mechanics that will encourage grouping, more by rewarding people for doing so instead of punishing them for not doing so. Still not totally on board with their "no healer" (or is it everyone heals) approach, but I understand why they are trying something different and am looking forward to the results.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In a game designed around group activities, I'm sure the usual "I can't find a group" nonsense would go away. Why? Because everyone would need to group! The people who don't group up are the ones off doing their own thing by themselves. It's really very simple to understand. More group activity = more people grouping. More solo activity = fewer people grouping.
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
I'm not a fan of the mechanic, but i understand why the developers like it.
Now, many of us could post an argument on why soloing or grouping is better, and it's unlikely anyone's opinion will be changed, but let's get one thing clear:
Definition of forced grouping - too often I see the notion put forth that since you can still play part of the game solo, then you're not actually forced to group up. If there is a limit that you can advance your character to thru soloing, and that includes gear advancement, that is surpassed by what you can get grouping, then the grouping is utterly forced. It says soloers must stop their progress here, but groupers can continue a ways yet. This tired mechanic was started by some older MMOs, and unfortunately, many feel that all MMOs must be that way. This includes devs.
Look, if you want to have an MMO with forced grouping, fine. But FFS say so up front! Every Wow box should have a huge banner on it that says "Once you get to the top level, you must group up or reroll".
As much as groupers lament how solo-friendly MMOs are these days, there's damn few with a soloable endgame.
I want to see some MMOs allow for all playstyles to be equally rewarding, or at least, allow players of each playstyle (solo/group/pvp) to have a method to acquire the best gear in the game.
yeah right lol. Robinson Crusoe tried soloing life and he almost went crazy after 4 years :P
Not all of us are so uncomfortable with our own company is you seem to be.
I don't like subsuming my freedom to the will of a group, being pulled in whichever direction it wants to go. I like being able to stop and read lore, listen to the dialogue, watch a cutscene or chase a freaking butterfly when it happens by, without feeling guilty that I'm wasting someone else's time. I also don't appreciate having my time wasted by others when I'm ready to get moving. When I choose to group, I do it because I feel like being sociable and hanging around with friends, and what we choose to do isn't as important as the fact that we're doing it together.
Trying to force players into a community is foolish. You can provide the tools to encourage it but you can't force it. When you do, you're just breeding all kinds of resentment. Think of a prison when you want an idea of what a forced community is like. I'll pass, thanks.
I want to see some MMOs allow for all playstyles to be equally rewarding, or at least, allow players of each playstyle (solo/group/pvp) to have a method to acquire the best gear in the game.
Games that allow crafters to make the best gear solve this problem. If we could just move away from this bind on pickup fad...
Originally posted by SwampRob Look, if you want to have an MMO with forced grouping, fine. But FFS say so up front! Every Wow box should have a huge banner on it that says "Once you get to the top level, you must group up or reroll".
What about Guild Wars 2 is more community friendly than the other 100 MMORPGs? I'm not being sarcastic. I really want to know.
The idea is that they have taken away things like mob stealing and ninja looting, together with giving full XP and having scaling quest. They also have skill combos that makes it possible for a elementalist to make the rangers arrows fire-arrows and similar things.
We havn't seen that it makes the community better yet however but they are trying at least. We wont truly know until the community actually formed and that usually take something like 6 months after launch.
I also like the idea that you don't have to group in GW2 but can jump in and help some folks out with healing, rezzing or other stuff without any problems. But as I said we wont know the reality before after launch.
I like their ideas towards employing game mechanics that will encourage grouping, more by rewarding people for doing so instead of punishing them for not doing so. Still not totally on board with their "no healer" (or is it everyone heals) approach, but I understand why they are trying something different and am looking forward to the results.
"Healing is for when you're already losing." I love that quote of theirs...
The 'no healer' thing is based around everyone, for example, being able to bring things to the fight to help minimize damage (control) as well as provide some for of healing, either for self or for others. Basically, there will be no dedicated tanks or healers, instead there will be machanics of control, support and damage. Control is limiting the enemies movements and ability to do damage to you or your allies. Support is providing buffs and heals that benefit your allies. Damage is... well, damage.
Bu giving everyone the capacity to help in all areas, they're taking away the need for LFG NEED HEALER TO GO!. They're also taking away the flat out tank... instead of simply eating blows to the face "tanking" will be performable by pretty much anyone that can control the enemy and mitigate its damage capabilities.
I'm probably not doing so great a job explaining it... here's a list of links that will help:
I'm not a fan of the mechanic, but i understand why the developers like it.
Now, many of us could post an argument on why soloing or grouping is better, and it's unlikely anyone's opinion will be changed, but let's get one thing clear:
Definition of forced grouping - too often I see the notion put forth that since you can still play part of the game solo, then you're not actually forced to group up. If there is a limit that you can advance your character to thru soloing, and that includes gear advancement, that is surpassed by what you can get grouping, then the grouping is utterly forced. It says soloers must stop their progress here, but groupers can continue a ways yet. This tired mechanic was started by some older MMOs, and unfortunately, many feel that all MMOs must be that way. This includes devs.
Look, if you want to have an MMO with forced grouping, fine. But FFS say so up front! Every Wow box should have a huge banner on it that says "Once you get to the top level, you must group up or reroll".
As much as groupers lament how solo-friendly MMOs are these days, there's damn few with a soloable endgame.
I want to see some MMOs allow for all playstyles to be equally rewarding, or at least, allow players of each playstyle (solo/group/pvp) to have a method to acquire the best gear in the game.
Someone else that should check out GW2... gear won't be the end-all of the game as it is in WoW, for example, where it's gear or get out. End-game dungeon gear will be equivalent to other gears at level, including crafted gear. The skins will be different, of course, so you can wear the gear of a certain dungeon and stand out, but it won't make you more or less powerful than someone with PvP gear or someone with comparable crafted gear.
Well, no one responded to my lovely post on the first page. It makes me a sad panda.
Anyhow, I think GW2 provides a good example of community friendly mechanics that don't require forced grouping. Hopefully we'll see some more community reinforcing mechanics from them as well.
What about Guild Wars 2 is more community friendly than the other 100 MMORPGs? I'm not being sarcastic. I really want to know.
One of the big things in their design is they want you to always be happy to see another player (outside of PvP, of course). Hence in the PvE environment there's no pvp, if another player comes and helps kill a mob, you both get normal loot roles and full experience (no reduced experience or loot for either). If someone shows up at a dynamic event, then it scales up in difficulty (and again, when it is over you get the same loot chance by yourself as you do with 50 other people). You don't need to group for any of this benefit, it is just part of the game. You certainly can group if you want though.
That should make for a pretty friendly environment, imho, because you aren't competing with other players for mobs, loot, or anything else (again, outside of pvp). Dungeon runs follow a similar philosophy.
How is it an accomplishment to beat anything if it scales?
Well, no one responded to my lovely post on the first page. It makes me a sad panda. Anyhow, I think GW2 provides a good example of community friendly mechanics that don't require forced grouping. Hopefully we'll see some more community reinforcing mechanics from them as well.
What about Guild Wars 2 is more community friendly than the other 100 MMORPGs? I'm not being sarcastic. I really want to know.
One of the big things in their design is they want you to always be happy to see another player (outside of PvP, of course). Hence in the PvE environment there's no pvp, if another player comes and helps kill a mob, you both get normal loot roles and full experience (no reduced experience or loot for either). If someone shows up at a dynamic event, then it scales up in difficulty (and again, when it is over you get the same loot chance by yourself as you do with 50 other people). You don't need to group for any of this benefit, it is just part of the game. You certainly can group if you want though. That should make for a pretty friendly environment, imho, because you aren't competing with other players for mobs, loot, or anything else (again, outside of pvp). Dungeon runs follow a similar philosophy.
How is it an accomplishment to beat anything if it scales?
I've surmised from the demos that every mob has a higher or lower baseline difficulty depending on if its a boss or not and based on what level it is. Then when more players get into the fight the mob hits harder and gets more abilities. So if you are a level 10 a level 20 mob will not scale down to your level. You will probably be defeated. Also going into dungeons will actually cause your character to level down if you are too high leveled so that you can't just steamroll through a lower level dungeon.
Well, no one responded to my lovely post on the first page. It makes me a sad panda.
Anyhow, I think GW2 provides a good example of community friendly mechanics that don't require forced grouping. Hopefully we'll see some more community reinforcing mechanics from them as well.
What about Guild Wars 2 is more community friendly than the other 100 MMORPGs? I'm not being sarcastic. I really want to know.
One of the big things in their design is they want you to always be happy to see another player (outside of PvP, of course). Hence in the PvE environment there's no pvp, if another player comes and helps kill a mob, you both get normal loot roles and full experience (no reduced experience or loot for either). If someone shows up at a dynamic event, then it scales up in difficulty (and again, when it is over you get the same loot chance by yourself as you do with 50 other people). You don't need to group for any of this benefit, it is just part of the game. You certainly can group if you want though.
That should make for a pretty friendly environment, imho, because you aren't competing with other players for mobs, loot, or anything else (again, outside of pvp). Dungeon runs follow a similar philosophy.
How is it an accomplishment to beat anything if it scales?
I'm a little confused here. You think it is an accomplishment to beat an enemy/encounter balanced for two guys with four guys, but if the encounter scales so it is also balanced for four guys, then suddenly it means nothing?
Comments
I like their ideas towards employing game mechanics that will encourage grouping, more by rewarding people for doing so instead of punishing them for not doing so. Still not totally on board with their "no healer" (or is it everyone heals) approach, but I understand why they are trying something different and am looking forward to the results.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Nothing beats leveling in classic Daoc, it was awsome, grouped in dungeons and grind spots from 1-50, and made tons of friends every day.
I havent found a game, with that kind of social leveling since.
In a game designed around group activities, I'm sure the usual "I can't find a group" nonsense would go away. Why? Because everyone would need to group! The people who don't group up are the ones off doing their own thing by themselves. It's really very simple to understand. More group activity = more people grouping. More solo activity = fewer people grouping.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
I'm not a fan of the mechanic, but i understand why the developers like it.
Now, many of us could post an argument on why soloing or grouping is better, and it's unlikely anyone's opinion will be changed, but let's get one thing clear:
Definition of forced grouping - too often I see the notion put forth that since you can still play part of the game solo, then you're not actually forced to group up. If there is a limit that you can advance your character to thru soloing, and that includes gear advancement, that is surpassed by what you can get grouping, then the grouping is utterly forced. It says soloers must stop their progress here, but groupers can continue a ways yet. This tired mechanic was started by some older MMOs, and unfortunately, many feel that all MMOs must be that way. This includes devs.
Look, if you want to have an MMO with forced grouping, fine. But FFS say so up front! Every Wow box should have a huge banner on it that says "Once you get to the top level, you must group up or reroll".
As much as groupers lament how solo-friendly MMOs are these days, there's damn few with a soloable endgame.
I want to see some MMOs allow for all playstyles to be equally rewarding, or at least, allow players of each playstyle (solo/group/pvp) to have a method to acquire the best gear in the game.
Not all of us are so uncomfortable with our own company is you seem to be.
I don't like subsuming my freedom to the will of a group, being pulled in whichever direction it wants to go. I like being able to stop and read lore, listen to the dialogue, watch a cutscene or chase a freaking butterfly when it happens by, without feeling guilty that I'm wasting someone else's time. I also don't appreciate having my time wasted by others when I'm ready to get moving. When I choose to group, I do it because I feel like being sociable and hanging around with friends, and what we choose to do isn't as important as the fact that we're doing it together.
Trying to force players into a community is foolish. You can provide the tools to encourage it but you can't force it. When you do, you're just breeding all kinds of resentment. Think of a prison when you want an idea of what a forced community is like. I'll pass, thanks.
Games that allow crafters to make the best gear solve this problem. If we could just move away from this bind on pickup fad...
Freedom is just another word for nothing else to lose.
Janus, 1979
That's sigworthy
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
"Healing is for when you're already losing." I love that quote of theirs...
The 'no healer' thing is based around everyone, for example, being able to bring things to the fight to help minimize damage (control) as well as provide some for of healing, either for self or for others. Basically, there will be no dedicated tanks or healers, instead there will be machanics of control, support and damage. Control is limiting the enemies movements and ability to do damage to you or your allies. Support is providing buffs and heals that benefit your allies. Damage is... well, damage.
Bu giving everyone the capacity to help in all areas, they're taking away the need for LFG NEED HEALER TO GO!. They're also taking away the flat out tank... instead of simply eating blows to the face "tanking" will be performable by pretty much anyone that can control the enemy and mitigate its damage capabilities.
I'm probably not doing so great a job explaining it... here's a list of links that will help:
http://www.arena.net/blog/link-roundup-healing-and-death
Oderint, dum metuant.
Someone else that should check out GW2... gear won't be the end-all of the game as it is in WoW, for example, where it's gear or get out. End-game dungeon gear will be equivalent to other gears at level, including crafted gear. The skins will be different, of course, so you can wear the gear of a certain dungeon and stand out, but it won't make you more or less powerful than someone with PvP gear or someone with comparable crafted gear.
Oderint, dum metuant.
How is it an accomplishment to beat anything if it scales?
I think they should take out grouping entirely and just reward cooperation. I wrote quite a lot about this over at my blog:
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/rejad
http://mmo-hell.blogspot.com/
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/rejad
I've surmised from the demos that every mob has a higher or lower baseline difficulty depending on if its a boss or not and based on what level it is. Then when more players get into the fight the mob hits harder and gets more abilities. So if you are a level 10 a level 20 mob will not scale down to your level. You will probably be defeated. Also going into dungeons will actually cause your character to level down if you are too high leveled so that you can't just steamroll through a lower level dungeon.
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
I'm a little confused here. You think it is an accomplishment to beat an enemy/encounter balanced for two guys with four guys, but if the encounter scales so it is also balanced for four guys, then suddenly it means nothing?