There seems to be a lot of the community that is *disgruntled* to say the least with the information that GW2 may be selling content packs or other items like consumables etc.
Lets take a look at what GW sells currently.
We have costume packs.
We have content packs.
We have unlock packs for skills, weapons, armor and pets.
We have storage, character slot and makeover packs.
Most if not all of this stuff can be bought within the game, but buying the packs is, of course easier then playing the game to get all of these things.
This is what GW1 already has, and yet it really hasn't changed the face of what GW1 offers. GW2 has spoken about buying additional dungeon packs, possible boosts, or ultimately -- anything they feel the community is clamoring for.
After seeing what they've been selling for guild wars 1. Seeing what type of payment model they are using for Guild Wars 2... I have to ask some of those that are unhappy with this news: What did you think would happen?
That line is important because you can tell them what you don't want and they won't have it in there. WTF don't you get? Of course you guys don't understand that you can decide to play the game without touching the store (I am a perfect example cos I haven't touched the store in GW1 even to this day, I didn't even buy the mission packs).
But of course, you can't do that, you've gotta spend money on stuff that doesn't make you better at the game.
Hopefully when the game comes out all the bullshit will die down. But I guess I'll be too busy playing the game to find out.
I support them adding that stuff to their item mall!
I think people are more upset about the way the article that said we would be buying dungeons when, in fact ,Anet said that they aren't taking such options off the table. I say that selling playable content that isn't in the expansion packs is a bad Idea, but thats because it would splinter the community, not because it would cost too much. and even if Anet does sell such things, which I find unlikely based on the fact that the rational for thinking they will is equivalent to a mutual friend of 2 people saying to one that the other would buy dinner for all 3, when that person said nothing of the sort (mutual friend is PCgamer, and what they said in their article on thursday was not factual, and I am tired of people being surprised that 1) micro-transactions are going to be in the game, and 2) Anet is going to decide what goes in the in-game store based on what the players really want.)
Well, they need to take it off the table. Hopefully with enough outcry and backlash over this notion they may decide to do just that.
Don't hold your breath. It's not a sub game. It never will be a sub game. All the bitching in the world from the minor few who knew little if anything about the original game isn't going to change their minds. Save yourself the trouble and just take Guild Wars 2 off your radar if you guys are going to continue to be irked about the micro-fees. When a game doesn't have subs, it needs to make money by selling things, because if it doesn't, no one gets paid and the game ceases to exist. They're sticking to the B2P model of the first game, they said they were doing this back when GW2 was just a promise and not even art had been released yet.
It's not going to change now.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Selling xpacs, even dungeons ala ddo and lotr to me is one thing personally not something I'm interested but with no subs they have to make an income somewhere. Selling skills, xp boosts, consumables though is a completely different thing, isn't this just a run of the mill item mall game at that point, irrespective of how pretty it may be?
The idea that they will only sell what people ask for is flawed, they will sell what they can get away with that brings in an optimum income, that's just common sense. While it may seem that one is the same as the other it simply is not, you see with no subs they can be quite content with losing a certain number of the playerbase at the advantage of gaining revenue from those that are willing to pay for items that may not be popular at all, it happens in all item shop games.
I'm interested to see where this goes but I think those buying the box hoping for a free game that is kept alive purely through xpacs are going to be sorely dissapointed.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Selling xpacs, even dungeons ala ddo and lotr to me is one thing personally not something I'm interested but with no subs they have to make an income somewhere. Selling skills, xp boosts, consumables though is a completely different thing, isn't this just a run of the mill item mall game at that point, irrespective of how pretty it may be?
The idea that they will only sell what people ask for is flawed, they will sell what they can get away with that brings in an optimum income, that's just common sense. While it may seem that one is the same as the other it simply is not, you see with no subs they can be quite content with losing a certain number of the playerbase at the advantage of gaining revenue from those that are willing to pay for items that may not be popular at all, it happens in all item shop games.
I'm interested to see where this goes but I think those buying the box hoping for a free game that is kept alive purely through xpacs are going to be sorely dissapointed.
Skills are no longer unlocked the same way, there's an extremely small amount of skills in Guild Wars 2 and most of them are decided by your weapon. They already said they're going for quality over quantity this time because balancing was such an ongoing issue in the last one. You can very likely rule out skill packs being sold.
XP packs are unlikely since the xp curve barely budges from 1-80, chances are you'll hit that or very close just from finishing the main storyline and before you even hit 80, the returns from leveling will be so insignificant that your level acts as little more than another flashy title.
Consumables could be an issue. I know potions are going to be in this game, which does concern me a bit, but until I see how it works I'm not going to get hyped up. Crafting is supposed to be bigger this time around, so if I can make my own potions, then I'm fine. Gathering nodes are per person, meaning even if someone just gathered from an herb and can't take anymore themselves, you can still take some because you haven't touched it yet. So, supplies will be aplenty.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
This is an ignorant comment since 1) WoW has never had a 6 month period where they haven't added something, that is the advantage of a subscription fee its constantly being updated with new content that isn't part of an expansion.
Vanilla WoW is a perfect example, original had basically MC and the regular instance. They added BWL, they added AQ, and they added naxx + battle grounds, etc etc non of which were part of an expansion.
- basically my point is in between WoW expansions there is a shit load of stuff they add and thats what you pay for with a subscription fee. Everyone gets it not just people who want it, so you're not looking for a group and have people say "oh I don't have that content pack"
Instead of trying to be insulting you might want to check your facts. ICC was released in Dec 2009 and they didn't add RS until 7 months later, at the end of June 2010. Since RS is a single boss dungeon, most people are still stuck raiding ICC 10 months after its release.
The WotLK was supposed to include the Lich King but he was not in game as playable content until 13 months after the launch of the expansion. So Blizzard adding new content between expansions is not something they do out of the kindness of their hearts, they are adding the content you already bought and paid for.
People not buying a content pack is no different than people who refuse to buy expansions. Any game that offers expansions or content packs will have people split between them.
Selling xpacs, even dungeons ala ddo and lotr to me is one thing personally not something I'm interested but with no subs they have to make an income somewhere. Selling skills, xp boosts, consumables though is a completely different thing, isn't this just a run of the mill item mall game at that point, irrespective of how pretty it may be?
The idea that they will only sell what people ask for is flawed, they will sell what they can get away with that brings in an optimum income, that's just common sense. While it may seem that one is the same as the other it simply is not, you see with no subs they can be quite content with losing a certain number of the playerbase at the advantage of gaining revenue from those that are willing to pay for items that may not be popular at all, it happens in all item shop games.
I'm interested to see where this goes but I think those buying the box hoping for a free game that is kept alive purely through xpacs are going to be sorely dissapointed.
Skills are no longer unlocked the same way, there's an extremely small amount of skills in Guild Wars 2 and most of them are decided by your weapon. They already said they're going for quality over quantity this time because balancing was such an ongoing issue in the last one. You can very likely rule out skill packs being sold.
XP packs are unlikely since the xp curve barely budges from 1-80, chances are you'll hit that or very close just from finishing the main storyline and before you even hit 80, the returns from leveling will be so insignificant that your level acts as little more than another flashy title.
Consumables could be an issue. I know potions are going to be in this game, which does concern me a bit, but until I see how it works I'm not going to get hyped up. Crafting is supposed to be bigger this time around, so if I can make my own potions, then I'm fine. Gathering nodes are per person, meaning even if someone just gathered from an herb and can't take anymore themselves, you can still take some because you haven't touched it yet. So, supplies will be aplenty.
It will be interesting to see how their aplication of crafting works, as if consumables are in the shop and craftable it's obviously in direct competition, but I can see it working if the playerbase is big enough and the economy is increadibly robust, that's 2 big if's though.
But why have a mall at all? They have stated their game is created in a way that doesn't require subs, if this is the case I just see no reason to have a mall in any form. From the shere numbers of interested mmo'ers I see on different forums surely they can make an income just from selling dungeon pacs or xpacs.
I'm a bias comentator, I didn't like GW1 but I like what I hear about GW2, but there is no way I'll play an item mall game it's just not my thing, I doubt I'm the only one.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
I take back what I said about PvE being required to gain skills. You can unlock skills through Balthazar faction but regardless, buying the skill packs doesn't give you an advantage. You still have to use Tomes to gain the skill on your PvE toon. All in all so what if they add an in game store. It's a choice to buy the stuff on there but ultimately you do not have to pay a dime.
Selling xpacs, even dungeons ala ddo and lotr to me is one thing personally not something I'm interested but with no subs they have to make an income somewhere. Selling skills, xp boosts, consumables though is a completely different thing, isn't this just a run of the mill item mall game at that point, irrespective of how pretty it may be?
The idea that they will only sell what people ask for is flawed, they will sell what they can get away with that brings in an optimum income, that's just common sense. While it may seem that one is the same as the other it simply is not, you see with no subs they can be quite content with losing a certain number of the playerbase at the advantage of gaining revenue from those that are willing to pay for items that may not be popular at all, it happens in all item shop games.
I'm interested to see where this goes but I think those buying the box hoping for a free game that is kept alive purely through xpacs are going to be sorely dissapointed.
Well they did well enough in GW1 with this model so we will see. Assuming you played GW1, and it's fine if you didn't, then you know how the shop worked there and it wasn't anything that changed the game too much. For the most part it was cosmetic and probably accounted for a small portion of their income. I never bought anything fromt he shop except the expansions. The shop is a nice bit of extra income, but they did a good job of not forcing you to buy any of the bells and whistles in the first GW and so I will wait and hold judgement till it is out. Chances are I will only be spending my money on expansions and GW2 will do just fine making a majority of their money from those x-pacs.
All in all so what if they add an in game store. It's a choice to buy the stuff on there but ultimately you do not have to pay a dime.
Because that is a problem at the core of the concept, it's a coice only for as long as they let it be one. While it's true that project heads and programmers may be making the game for all the right reasons and have the utmost faith in their game, the fact is money will mean more in the end and when you combine the day to day mechanics of a game with the ability for them to make extra money there is rarely but one way that is going to go.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
All in all so what if they add an in game store. It's a choice to buy the stuff on there but ultimately you do not have to pay a dime.
Because that is a problem at the core of the concept, it's a coice only for as long as they let it be one. While it's true that project heads and programmers may be making the game for all the right reasons and have the utmost faith in their game, the fact is money will mean more in the end and when you combine the day to day mechanics of a game with the ability for them to make extra money there is rarely but one way that is going to go.
I'll agree that it is easy to see it going bad. I have dabbled in a few F2P games with my wife and the item shops there ruin the game and offer things that if you don't buy, you aren't going to enjoy the game. All I can say is wait and see. I didn't care for GW1 because it was instanced and not an mmorpg. That being said the item shop didn't ruin it for me at all. The items there were mostly costumes, and lil extra things, but they didn't really affect the game. I played the game late, so I can't say what the shop may have offered in it's early stages but nothing I saw was something you had to have. IMO the team did a good job of not getting money hungry and didn't offer things that could ruin the game, just to turn a profit.
Well they did well enough in GW1 with this model so we will see. Assuming you played GW1, and it's fine if you didn't, then you know how the shop worked there and it wasn't anything that changed the game too much. For the most part it was cosmetic and probably accounted for a small portion of their income. I never bought anything fromt he shop except the expansions. The shop is a nice bit of extra income, but they did a good job of not forcing you to buy any of the bells and whistles in the first GW and so I will wait and hold judgement till it is out. Chances are I will only be spending my money on expansions and GW2 will do just fine making a majority of their money from those x-pacs.
I played gw1 at the very begining but it wasn't for I hated the whole instance thing. But if what they're saying is true that gw2 will be a true mmo then some of the planned mechanics appeal to me. I have no problem buying content in the way of areas or expansions (I don't see much of a difference between that and subs tbh and the only differences I do see are a plus for the gamer so..). But I do have a problem with item shops selling in game items such as consumables and armour packs and a like.
I think I shouldn't have entered the thread as GW2 is probably going that way like many mall shops so ignore me and I'll just check it out a few months after release, here's hoping they can make their way just selling expansions. To those who don't have a problem with item shops gl with gw2 it does look good.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
WoW has never had a 6 month period where they haven't added something, that is the advantage of a subscription fee its constantly being updated with new content that isn't part of an expansion.
Vanilla WoW is a perfect example, original had basically MC and the regular instance. They added BWL, they added AQ, and they added naxx + battle grounds, etc etc non of which were part of an expansion.
- basically my point is in between WoW expansions there is a shit load of stuff they add and thats what you pay for with a subscription fee. Everyone gets it not just people who want it, so you're not looking for a group and have people say "oh I don't have that content pack"
What I find funny about this comment is that he is talking as if you get content every month that is worth the $15 / £10 a month you spend on the game. Even if Guild Wars 2 goes the Dungeon DLC route, we would likely see a pack of lets say 3 Dungeons for $10-15 / £7-10, that you and your friends COULD buy, if you want that little bit extra. Which is why I like ANet... they're giving their playbase options.
But you know what really pisses me off is that we were all excited for this game until the whole Transmutation Stones & Dungeon DLC madness that has recently cropped up and I would like to remind people of some of the content that this game will have... upon release (because we know all ANet doesn't like to bullshit it's community):
5 playerable races, each with a single player RPGs worth of story.
The personal story is both soloable & cooperative.
Great character customization (including the dye system).
A vast open world (I've seen the entire map and it's huge).
it's pretty simple really. Arenanet are not stupid (as opposed to many other developers). As long as they will sell vanity items, expansions, dungeons, new things to explore etc. all will be fine, because that's exactly what they did in GW. They know perfectly well that as soon as they sell Weapons and Armor that have superior stats compare to ingame-items the shitstorm will swallow their game and it's community in one bite. They didn't even sell xp-pacs and they didn't announce that they will.
And for the skill packs: Yes you can unlock all the skills for pvp but you know what? It doesn't mean crap, because as long as you don't know how to use and to combine them in builds you might as well walk into pvp with autoattack alone. There's no "Pay to Win" here and there will never be. Again, Arenanet have proven for years that they are not stupid and know exactly what they're doing.
I realy realy hope, that they will not listen to vocal minority ( that has match problems to actualy count what costs less money for player) . I dont wanna pay subs for unknown content, if you want, go play P2P game like wow,
I'm not sure who the minority here is. Most people are buying this game because of the videos that we have seen and the B2P appeal that this game has, If the b2p becomes more expensive than a p2p game just to enjoy all the content, I will be very disappointed.
Comments
I support them adding that stuff to their item mall!
Don't hold your breath. It's not a sub game. It never will be a sub game. All the bitching in the world from the minor few who knew little if anything about the original game isn't going to change their minds. Save yourself the trouble and just take Guild Wars 2 off your radar if you guys are going to continue to be irked about the micro-fees. When a game doesn't have subs, it needs to make money by selling things, because if it doesn't, no one gets paid and the game ceases to exist. They're sticking to the B2P model of the first game, they said they were doing this back when GW2 was just a promise and not even art had been released yet.
It's not going to change now.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Selling xpacs, even dungeons ala ddo and lotr to me is one thing personally not something I'm interested but with no subs they have to make an income somewhere. Selling skills, xp boosts, consumables though is a completely different thing, isn't this just a run of the mill item mall game at that point, irrespective of how pretty it may be?
The idea that they will only sell what people ask for is flawed, they will sell what they can get away with that brings in an optimum income, that's just common sense. While it may seem that one is the same as the other it simply is not, you see with no subs they can be quite content with losing a certain number of the playerbase at the advantage of gaining revenue from those that are willing to pay for items that may not be popular at all, it happens in all item shop games.
I'm interested to see where this goes but I think those buying the box hoping for a free game that is kept alive purely through xpacs are going to be sorely dissapointed.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Skills are no longer unlocked the same way, there's an extremely small amount of skills in Guild Wars 2 and most of them are decided by your weapon. They already said they're going for quality over quantity this time because balancing was such an ongoing issue in the last one. You can very likely rule out skill packs being sold.
XP packs are unlikely since the xp curve barely budges from 1-80, chances are you'll hit that or very close just from finishing the main storyline and before you even hit 80, the returns from leveling will be so insignificant that your level acts as little more than another flashy title.
Consumables could be an issue. I know potions are going to be in this game, which does concern me a bit, but until I see how it works I'm not going to get hyped up. Crafting is supposed to be bigger this time around, so if I can make my own potions, then I'm fine. Gathering nodes are per person, meaning even if someone just gathered from an herb and can't take anymore themselves, you can still take some because you haven't touched it yet. So, supplies will be aplenty.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Instead of trying to be insulting you might want to check your facts. ICC was released in Dec 2009 and they didn't add RS until 7 months later, at the end of June 2010. Since RS is a single boss dungeon, most people are still stuck raiding ICC 10 months after its release.
The WotLK was supposed to include the Lich King but he was not in game as playable content until 13 months after the launch of the expansion. So Blizzard adding new content between expansions is not something they do out of the kindness of their hearts, they are adding the content you already bought and paid for.
People not buying a content pack is no different than people who refuse to buy expansions. Any game that offers expansions or content packs will have people split between them.
It will be interesting to see how their aplication of crafting works, as if consumables are in the shop and craftable it's obviously in direct competition, but I can see it working if the playerbase is big enough and the economy is increadibly robust, that's 2 big if's though.
But why have a mall at all? They have stated their game is created in a way that doesn't require subs, if this is the case I just see no reason to have a mall in any form. From the shere numbers of interested mmo'ers I see on different forums surely they can make an income just from selling dungeon pacs or xpacs.
I'm a bias comentator, I didn't like GW1 but I like what I hear about GW2, but there is no way I'll play an item mall game it's just not my thing, I doubt I'm the only one.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
I take back what I said about PvE being required to gain skills. You can unlock skills through Balthazar faction but regardless, buying the skill packs doesn't give you an advantage. You still have to use Tomes to gain the skill on your PvE toon. All in all so what if they add an in game store. It's a choice to buy the stuff on there but ultimately you do not have to pay a dime.
Well they did well enough in GW1 with this model so we will see. Assuming you played GW1, and it's fine if you didn't, then you know how the shop worked there and it wasn't anything that changed the game too much. For the most part it was cosmetic and probably accounted for a small portion of their income. I never bought anything fromt he shop except the expansions. The shop is a nice bit of extra income, but they did a good job of not forcing you to buy any of the bells and whistles in the first GW and so I will wait and hold judgement till it is out. Chances are I will only be spending my money on expansions and GW2 will do just fine making a majority of their money from those x-pacs.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Because that is a problem at the core of the concept, it's a coice only for as long as they let it be one. While it's true that project heads and programmers may be making the game for all the right reasons and have the utmost faith in their game, the fact is money will mean more in the end and when you combine the day to day mechanics of a game with the ability for them to make extra money there is rarely but one way that is going to go.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
I'll agree that it is easy to see it going bad. I have dabbled in a few F2P games with my wife and the item shops there ruin the game and offer things that if you don't buy, you aren't going to enjoy the game. All I can say is wait and see. I didn't care for GW1 because it was instanced and not an mmorpg. That being said the item shop didn't ruin it for me at all. The items there were mostly costumes, and lil extra things, but they didn't really affect the game. I played the game late, so I can't say what the shop may have offered in it's early stages but nothing I saw was something you had to have. IMO the team did a good job of not getting money hungry and didn't offer things that could ruin the game, just to turn a profit.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I played gw1 at the very begining but it wasn't for I hated the whole instance thing. But if what they're saying is true that gw2 will be a true mmo then some of the planned mechanics appeal to me. I have no problem buying content in the way of areas or expansions (I don't see much of a difference between that and subs tbh and the only differences I do see are a plus for the gamer so..). But I do have a problem with item shops selling in game items such as consumables and armour packs and a like.
I think I shouldn't have entered the thread as GW2 is probably going that way like many mall shops so ignore me and I'll just check it out a few months after release, here's hoping they can make their way just selling expansions. To those who don't have a problem with item shops gl with gw2 it does look good.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
What I find funny about this comment is that he is talking as if you get content every month that is worth the $15 / £10 a month you spend on the game. Even if Guild Wars 2 goes the Dungeon DLC route, we would likely see a pack of lets say 3 Dungeons for $10-15 / £7-10, that you and your friends COULD buy, if you want that little bit extra. Which is why I like ANet... they're giving their playbase options.
But you know what really pisses me off is that we were all excited for this game until the whole Transmutation Stones & Dungeon DLC madness that has recently cropped up and I would like to remind people of some of the content that this game will have... upon release (because we know all ANet doesn't like to bullshit it's community):
5 playerable races, each with a single player RPGs worth of story.
The personal story is both soloable & cooperative.
Great character customization (including the dye system).
A vast open world (I've seen the entire map and it's huge).
+1,500 dynamic events.
+30 Optional Activities (minigames).
Internet Browser & IPad app.
Structed PvP
World PvP
No griefing
No ninja looting
No subscription fees
Need I say more... Just buy the game or f**k off.
it's pretty simple really. Arenanet are not stupid (as opposed to many other developers). As long as they will sell vanity items, expansions, dungeons, new things to explore etc. all will be fine, because that's exactly what they did in GW. They know perfectly well that as soon as they sell Weapons and Armor that have superior stats compare to ingame-items the shitstorm will swallow their game and it's community in one bite. They didn't even sell xp-pacs and they didn't announce that they will.
And for the skill packs: Yes you can unlock all the skills for pvp but you know what? It doesn't mean crap, because as long as you don't know how to use and to combine them in builds you might as well walk into pvp with autoattack alone. There's no "Pay to Win" here and there will never be. Again, Arenanet have proven for years that they are not stupid and know exactly what they're doing.
I'm not sure who the minority here is. Most people are buying this game because of the videos that we have seen and the B2P appeal that this game has, If the b2p becomes more expensive than a p2p game just to enjoy all the content, I will be very disappointed.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"